Reality of Dun Laoghaire Library

pm1977x

Would be great to get a comprehensive survey done of local residents to find out if they agree Sunday opening would be better than Monday, included on the survey the extra costs of getting the staff in on a Sunday and if they think it's worth it.

Fratton Fred

pm1977x wrote: »

Would be great to get a comprehensive survey done of local residents to find out if they agree Sunday opening would be better than Monday, included on the survey the extra costs of getting the staff in on a Sunday and if they think it's worth it.

It's an interesting question.

Sunday is undoubtedly Dun Laoghaire's busiest day of the week along that stretch and if it were a private enterprise looking to recoup its massive investment, it would open on a Sunday.

I don't personally expect a library to open on a Sunday, but then, it is much more than a library, isn't it?

pm1977x

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's an interesting question.

Sunday is undoubtedly Dun Laoghaire's busiest day of the week along that stretch and if it were a private enterprise looking to recoup its massive investment, it would open on a Sunday.

I don't personally expect a library to open on a Sunday, but then, it is much more than a library, isn't it?

It absolutely is - so if you're relying on it in some way (kids club/photocopiers/study space) I would say it's more likely to be a problem if it's closed on a Monday than on a Sunday - Sunday seems like a bit of a luxury to me. In an ideal world it would be open 7 days a week for long hours creating lots of employment, but that's not likely anytime soon.

Chinasea

Why should Sunday opening be seen as a luxury for heavens sake?

If it for religious reasons count me and a few million others out. If the staff rosters are unwilling to be flexible, then I think that is plain pig-headness union 'rules' mentality.

How come all the other businesses in the locality can operate on Sundays, with Sunday being one of their most lucrative days

It is ridiculous, RIDICULOUS that this €36 plus public facility is closed to the public on Sundays.

Seaswimmer

zagmund wrote: »

I've been in the library a couple of times now and while I like it as a "space" (yes, I've been watching too many Grand Designs), I think as a library it doesn't work just yet for a casual user.

Here's a couple of observations. As with Blackrock library, the perception I get is that most of the shelves aren't quite stocked. I'm not sure what the story is here. There have been mentions of a cafe here several times - I've seen no sign of it at all, so the signposting is lacking. There are computers *everywhere* and this is generally a good thing, but you've no idea how frustrating it is to have to walk up to 10, 15, 20 different computers and find out that none of them are usable for searching the catalogue. Catalogues are a pretty basic resource in a library. I eventually found one (after asking at the desk) under the stairs. My eyesight is pretty good, but when standing at the top of the stairs looking back over the main desk/book area, I cannot read a single sign on any of the shelves. Gardening? . . . . could be right at the end of the room, could be right beside me, could be half way down, and there's no way to find out other than walking up to every single shelf and reading. Looking for a good book on Algebra . . . no idea where the 512 section is, or even which floor it's on. A layout plan would be good.

In short, the lack of a readily accessible catalog and the lack of layout signage means that every time I've walked in to the library I've ended up wandering around thinking lofty architectural thoughts, but not getting a lot out of the library in terms of actual information sources.

On the plus side, I did come across this book as one of the recommended reads - http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Europe-Travels-Through-Twentieth/dp/009951673X. It's a great collection of essays on various places in Europe throughout the 20th Century.

z

There is a fairly basic one run by Brambles on the ground floor facing the town hall side. I am not sure if you can access it from inside the library. I believe it is to be expanded in the future.

What I do like about that side of the library is the bit of green space they have put in. No trees or flowers so anytime I have been there young kids have been playing ball and other games on it. Parents can look on while having a coffee and nobody is hassling the kids not to break flowers or trees

pm1977x

Chinasea wrote: »

Why should Sunday opening be seen as a luxury for heavens sake?

If it for religious reasons count me and a few million others out. If the staff rosters are unwilling to be flexible, then I think that is plain pig-headness union 'rules' mentality.

How come all the other businesses in the locality can operate on Sundays, with Sunday being one of their most lucrative days

It is ridiculous, RIDICULOUS that this €36 plus public facility is closed to the public on Sundays.

Nothing to do with religion, never even crossed my mind. I think you'll find one or two other businesses in the area that don't open on a Sunday - every single bank for example, they don't even open on Saturdays and they're BANKS! People might have important stuff to be doing in the banks but if you can't get in during the week or do it online you're screwed, far more likely to have a detrimental impact on your life than a library being shut.

RainyDay

pm1977x wrote: »

Would be great to get a comprehensive survey done of local residents to find out if they agree Sunday opening would be better than Monday, included on the survey the extra costs of getting the staff in on a Sunday and if they think it's worth it.

Better still: Everytime that anyone on boards has an idea about how public services are run, let's rush out and spend money on a 'comprehensive survey' to see what we should do, and ignore the people who have spent 20 or 30 or 40 years running those services.

pm1977x

RainyDay wrote: »

Better still: Everytime that anyone on boards has an idea about how public services are run, let's rush out and spend money on a 'comprehensive survey' to see what we should do, and ignore the people who have spent 20 or 30 or 40 years running those services.

I think it is important for public services to engage with the end user - the public, just because people have spent 40 years running something doesn't mean they have been running it well or should be a closed feedback loop of "we're running it for years and it hasn't been shut down = we're running it really well and providing the best product at the best price to the customer."

josip

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Even Halfords in Carrickmines pay double time to their non-management staff, including student part-time staff, to work Sundays.

Why ""Even" Halfords?
I thought Halfords had a very good reputation for treatment of staff?

RainyDay

pm1977x wrote: »

I think it is important for public services to engage with the end user - the public, just because people have spent 40 years running something doesn't mean they have been running it well or should be a closed feedback loop of "we're running it for years and it hasn't been shut down = we're running it really well and providing the best product at the best price to the customer."

Perhaps they are already engaged with the user? Perhaps they already run regular surveys?

Have a bit of respect for the professionalism of those who run the service.

Schadenfreudia

josip wrote: »

Why ""Even" Halfords?
I thought Halfords had a very good reputation for treatment of staff?

I meant that in the context of a "even" a competitive retailer grants what some suggest a Local Authority shouldn't.

No insult meant to Halfords, who do indeed threat their staff well!

PawneeRanger

Chinasea wrote: »

Why should Sunday opening be seen as a luxury for heavens sake?

Staffing levels will not allow Sunday opening without the library being closed on another day. The library operates on two shifts of staff, with each shift working alternate Fridays and Saturdays.

Chinasea wrote: »

If it for religious reasons count me and a few million others out.

What has religion got to do with it?

Chinasea wrote: »

If the staff rosters are unwilling to be flexible, then I think that is plain pig-headness union 'rules' mentality.

Nothing to do with being inflexible. There simply are not enough staff to open an additional day. And it is entirely unreasonable to expect the current staff to have zero weekend when those were not the conditions they were contracted to work.

Chinasea wrote: »

How come all the other businesses in the locality can operate on Sundays, with Sunday being one of their most lucrative days

The library is not a business. It is a public service that has seen incredible staffing reductions with no replacements being hired due to a very long standing recruit moratorium. You can't operate an effective library service with JobBridge/Gateway "interns" alone.

Chinasea wrote: »

It is ridiculous, RIDICULOUS that this €36 plus public facility is closed to the public on Sundays.

Then I would suggest you lobby your local representatives to push for the council to request permission to recruit properly. Other councils have done it and recruited permanent library staff.

Chinasea

PawneeRanger wrote: »

The library is not a business. It is a public service that has seen incredible staffing reductions with no replacements being hired due to a very long standing recruit moratorium.

There are plenty of public services operating on a Sunday, swimming pools, public parks i.e. The Peoples Park and many others, I even see the litter warden scooting around on Sundays - busily transferring one plastic bag into another nicer pale blue bag.

IMO it is an nurtured introspective attitude that allows a €36 million gargantuan public "facility" to shut its doors on the busiest day of the week, in this area of Dun Laoghaire, which I may add the CoCo have done such a commendable wonderful job on.

PawneeRanger

Chinasea wrote: »

There are plenty of public services operating on a Sunday, swimming pools, public parks i.e. The Peoples Park and many others, I even see the litter warden scooting around on Sundays - busily transferring one plastic bag into another nicer pale blue bag.

And yet again, there are not enough staff currently working in the public library service in South County Dublin to open an additional day. You appear to be completely ignoring this point.

Chinasea wrote: »

IMO it is an nurtured introspective attitude that allows a €36 million gargantuan public "facility" to shut its doors on the busiest day of the week, in this area of Dun Laoghaire, which I may add the CoCo have done such a commendable wonderful job on.

With all due respect, you really don't appear to know much about the situation, and just how dire the staffing levels are. This isn't a case of staff or unions being inflexible, there quite simply are not enough staff available for the branches to be open on a Sunday without them being closed on another day. There are barely enough staff to cover the 6 days a week openings as it is.

So again, instead of moaning about it here why don't you take my advice and lobby your local reps and push for the recruitment embargo to be lifted for the library service.

Chinasea

PawneeRanger wrote: »

And yet again, there are not enough staff currently working


there quite simply are not enough staff available for the branches to be open on a Sunday without them being closed on another day

Lets see, it was felt that the Carneige library had outgrown it's needs and was not able to cater for the citizens of Dun Laoghaire in a 2015 Ireland. We, the taxpayer etc build a massive, MASSIVE €36 million library, somewhat controversial but here now and open for Business none the same.

We develop a fabulous stretch along the railway lines with thriving businesses, beautifully landscaped set in one of the most picturesque parts of south county Dublin. We see thousands of families flock to the area on a Sunday only to find the library shut with no room at the inn.

Come up with a million and one excuses as to why it can't/won't open on Sundays, but I ain't buying.

crushproof

China Sea, at the end of the day it is not our decision. This is going around in circles so I don't understand why you won't listen to PawneeRanger - go to your local elected official and bring up the issue instead of complaining endlessly on an online forum.

RainyDay

Chinasea wrote: »

Lets see, it was felt that the Carneige library had outgrown it's needs and was not able to cater for the citizens of Dun Laoghaire in a 2015 Ireland. We, the taxpayer etc build a massive, MASSIVE €36 million library, somewhat controversial but here now and open for Business none the same.

We develop a fabulous stretch along the railway lines with thriving businesses, beautifully landscaped set in one of the most picturesque parts of south county Dublin. We see thousands of families flock to the area on a Sunday only to find the library shut with no room at the inn.

Come up with a million and one excuses as to why it can't/won't open on Sundays, but I ain't buying.

Honestly, it comes across as if you're using Sunday opening as a stick to beat the Library service with, because you don't like the cost of the library. I'm not sure what particular problem Sunday opening would be fixing. Is it really, really that difficult to get to the library sometime in the Monday to Saturday opening hours? How many people would want to build a library trip into a family walk on a Sunday?

Larbre34

I think the clue is in the term. There are no elected officials, only elected representatives. The 'officials' are unelected and have taken over more and more of the decision making powers from the elected members, thanks to a few elected members in various Councils being corrupt and making poor decisions in the last 40 years. (There were corrupt officials too of course).

Anyway, the officials will decide the opening hours of the library, because it is an operational matter and involves industrial relations and budgets.

So, if the budget isnt there to pay the rates the unions demand for Sunday opening, then it will not open on a Sunday. Shimples, as the meerkat would say.

strandroad

To be honest it would make far more sense to open the library on Sundays than on Mondays.

Sunday is a family day out in DL and a visit to the library for books or activities would be popular whether it's combined with a pier/People's Park walk or on its own. Especially if the weather is bad, it would be a great alternative to the traditional walk. There's a great buzz in DL on Sundays and the library could be part of it as it's right outside its door.

I hope that resources can be strengthened at some stage to allow for that.

PawneeRanger

Chinasea wrote: »

Lets see, it was felt that the Carneige library had outgrown it's needs and was not able to cater for the citizens of Dun Laoghaire in a 2015 Ireland. We, the taxpayer etc build a massive, MASSIVE €36 million library, somewhat controversial but here now and open for Business none the same.

We develop a fabulous stretch along the railway lines with thriving businesses, beautifully landscaped set in one of the most picturesque parts of south county Dublin. We see thousands of families flock to the area on a Sunday only to find the library shut with no room at the inn.

Come up with a million and one excuses as to why it can't/won't open on Sundays, but I ain't buying.

I don't really care if you "aint buying". I am telling you the reality of the situation.

The fact that €36 million was spent in this facility didn't make staff suddenly appear so I really don't get why you feel the need to belabour that point. It's irrelevant to the staffing situation.

Believe me, I know *far* more about the ins and outs of this situation than you do. You're entitled to your opinion, but it is terribly uninformed.

josip

PawneeRanger wrote: »

Believe me, I know *far* more about the ins and outs of this situation than you do. You're entitled to your opinion, but it is terribly uninformed.

This is why I enjoy boards
Best read with an Eton accent.

CatFromHue

I think this thread has gone mad.

Does any library in Ireland open on a Sunday?

Not including university libraries.

People gave out about it ruining the views, it's not really that bad. You don't notice it from either pier.
People gave out about tax payers money being used to fund it, seemingly it's been funded by development levies specifically collected for services in the area.
People gave out saying it'd never been used, it's used alot.
People give out saying it's too loud to study, it's still used a lot to study.
People give out about the lack of cafe, it doesn't need anything more than a tea/coffee/drinks and even then not really

Larbre34

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think this thread has gone mad.

Does any library in Ireland open on a Sunday?

Not including university libraries.

Council public libraries? It would appear none.

zagmund

CatFromHue wrote: »

People give out about the lack of cafe, it doesn't need anything more than a tea/coffee/drinks and even then not really

If that's a reference to my post - I wasn't giving out about the lack of a cafe, just pointing out that if there is one I haven't seen it and so the signage could be improved.

z

Tragedy

CatFromHue wrote: »

People gave out about it ruining the views, it's not really that bad. You don't notice it from either pier.

Indeed, it's invisible.



The view is as bad from the other pier too.

Tabnabs

^^^^^ That looks pretty cool TBH

Seaswimmer

Tragedy wrote: »

Indeed, it's invisible.



The view is as bad from the other pier too.

don't agree that's its as bad from the other (East) pier as you are facing the narrow end of it. I presume that photo is taken from the breakwater jutting out from the West pier which probably gives the absolute worst aspect of it..

josip

CatFromHue wrote: »

People gave out about it ruining the views, it's not really that bad. You don't notice it from either pier.

Comic genius. Really. I smile every time I read it.

Or are you seriously suggesting that we relocate everyone in Dun Laoghaire to live and work on the piers?
And only access them by boat from the seaward side?

Tragedy

Seaswimmer wrote: »

don't agree that's its as bad from the other (East) pier as you are facing the narrow end of it. I presume that photo is taken from the breakwater jutting out from the West pier which probably gives the absolute worst aspect of it..

I've never ventured down the breakwater. That wasn't a photo taken to shown the Library at all, one of my favourite places for a night time stroll is Dun Laoighaire and I never get tired of taking pictures of it.

There's only one specific (and small) part of the East pier where you're head on and it looks ok. For the rest of it, it's pretty much as bad - if different.

CatFromHue

I was walking the west pier last week and had to point it out to my mate, as in exactly point it out, this was during the day.

Walking the west pier in the dark is great too!