Reality of Dun Laoghaire Library

josip

RainyDay wrote: »

Have you tried asking the DL BID folks, or are you just being rhetorical?

The "Subsidise Our Ailing Retail Businesses" people rarely reply to my emails.
I thought perhaps the good people of boards would have more genuine answers. eg. Larbre

Schadenfreudia

Georges Street is an unattractive street. Perhaps they should demolish the west side of it between Marine Road and the old Library and create a large plaza - or some sort of open urban space?

Imagination is needed to save DL as a retail centre - not whining preservationists.

strandroad

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Imagination is needed to save DL as a retail centre - not whining preservationists.

I don't think anything can save it as a retail centre if shops close before or at 6 during the week. I pass DL twice a day and I would like to shop there but I can't; I have no choice but to shop in town or in Dundrum and the same applies to most people in full time employment commuting from or through DL. It's the retired folks and the unemployed who have the time to shop in DL during the day, and so the choice of shops is the way it is.

josip

Current Dun Laoghaire Car Parking costs for the record.

http://www.dunlaoghaire.ie/about-dun-laoghaire/parking/price-watch/

RainyDay

josip wrote: »

The "Subsidise Our Ailing Retail Businesses" people rarely reply to my emails.
I thought perhaps the good people of boards would have more genuine answers. eg. Larbre

I'm not sure I'd be responding to this kind of stuff by email if I was in their shoes either. Have you tried meeting them, or joining the BID or going to some meetings?

josip

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd be responding to this kind of stuff by email if I was in their shoes either. Have you tried meeting them,

Yes, I spent an hour with them one day as I tried to find a way that BID would benefit our particular business. In the end, the BID representative admitted that the BID initiatives were more for retailers than non-retail business. When I asked if non-retail business were thus effectively subsidising their underperforming retail counterparts, the answer was "Well I couldn't say that.." and a look away.

RainyDay wrote: »

, or joining the BID

Yes. Businesses have no choice but to pay their BID levy or face legal action.
http://ecouncil.dlrcoco.ie:9071/documents/s38994/MMerriganDLBidCo.pdf

RainyDay wrote: »

or going to some meetings?

After the one to one meeting I referred to earlier I didn't see much point.

schemingbohemia

josip wrote: »

Yes, I spent an hour with them one day as I tried to find a way that BID would benefit our particular business. In the end, the BID representative admitted that the BID initiatives were more for retailers than non-retail business. When I asked if non-retail business were thus effectively subsidising their underperforming retail counterparts, the answer was "Well I couldn't say that.." and a look away.

Yes. Businesses have no choice but to pay their BID levy or face legal action.
http://ecouncil.dlrcoco.ie:9071/documents/s38994/MMerriganDLBidCo.pdf

After the one to one meeting I referred to earlier I didn't see much point.

Whilst you might be subsidising the retail sector, is it not the retail sector that has more potential to grow the local economy through parking fees etc that would then help to reduce rates for all businesses?

Gareth Keenan

Nice to see quite a few visitors from the Royal Princess cruise ship milling about the new library and the environs of the Pavilion at lunchtime just now

There were several buses meeting the tenders coming in at the Coal Harbour as well, I think some were dropping off passengers on their way back to the boat, but a good number were footing it up to the town.

It did strike me that the old Stena terminal would be perfect for these people to be welcomed, both those that want to hot foot it elsewhere, and those that want to explore locally. A welcoming market on the plaza there, with music etc., would be a huge draw.

josip

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Whilst you might be subsidising the retail sector, is it not the retail sector that has more potential to grow the local economy through parking fees etc that would then help to reduce rates for all businesses?

Perhaps it has the potential.
It's hard to see how Dun Laoghaire's momentum can be changed in the opposite direction. Retail is still on a downwards trend. It's hard for any serious retailer to compete with the plethora of charity shops. There's also a lot of pop up shops that I don't think compete on the same playing field as an established business.

But all successful business locations tend to have at least one private sector anchor tenant, often multiple ones across different sectors. I can only think of 2 in Dun Laoghaire that could be considered as such, Tescos in Bloomfield and the Royal Marine There's nothing worth mentioning in the clothes sector. The non-retail sector is bereft since Ericsson left.

For me a telling aspect is that the town relies more significantly than other locations on non-private businesses to provide employment and spending power, ie the Council offices and the hospital. Look at the fuss kicked up when they were going to close the court house.

The dependency of large parts of the town's business on state support is ironically similar to the dependency of those on the methadone clinic, whom the business are so keen to get moved elsewhere.

gladrags

Was out at the library on Saturday last for the fist time,and yesterday,for a few hours.

I enjoyed it,and thought it was spacious,
I only managed to browse through the main library on the 2nd floor.

Got sorted quickly for card,and staff were great.

Larbre34

http://www.herald.ie/news/controversial-dun-laoghaire-library-up-for-award-31259419.html

I ventured into the library last week and was perusing the periodicals when I noticed a lad on a laptop sitting in the window get out of his seat and ask 4 teenagers sitting at a table close by to keep quiet as he was trying to work. They weren't being particularly boisterous, just chatting at a normal level, but it made me think, nobody treats it like a library space.

I noticed a lad in a staff lanyard restocking beside me, he had seen the guy talking to the teens and I asked him was noise and commotion an issue. He said he wasnt a librarian but was on the admin staff and proceeded to tell me all the issues they were having with the interior set up of the building. According to him the open spaces are liable to disturbance all the time, the kids library is more like a playground or a mothers meeting point, and none of the study spaces nearby can be used with any degree of peace, in fact there is little peace and quiet to be had in any area of the library and students and researchers are asking them all the time about cordoning off areas and noise reduction. He also said the lifts are a nightmare, one lift does not serve all the floors, and people are getting lost and pram and wheelchair users getting very frustrated.

So, whatever about award nominations, according to people to actually have to work in it, the LexIcon is a triumph of form over function on all levels.

Tabnabs

Top floor, you can hear a pin drop (apart from the fact that it's carpet). Complete silence. A whole floor of silence. Dedicated as the quiet area and with excellent facilities.

The lifts; absolute fcking idiocy, the most unbelievable level of poor planning.

The kids area has comfy chairs, a huge flat screen tablet of some description, even had a massive cardboard castle for a while. Imagine kids thinking it was a fun place to be...

The students all have ear-phones in. It must be more off putting for those around to have to listen to the tinny sound coming out of that, rather than kids down the other end of a particularly large building.

2,000 people a day are using it. If it wasn't doing the job, they wouldn't be flocking there in the first place.

uch

My Daughter studies there on her own for the upcoming leaving cert., she says there's nowhere quieter, she loves the place

CatFromHue

I don't know anything about the lifts but the toilet facilities are poor. They're not really suitable for large scale public use and there's not enough of them either.

I do find it a bit funny that your man asked the teenagers to be quiet as I've found them mostly to be all right and mostly respectful of the noise level. The elderly people have no problem chatting away at whatever volume they want though and yes I have heard the famous line "I'm in the Library" being said quite loud to someone on the phone in a non ironic way!

There are kids allowed to run around and shout a bit too but I don't know how the library can shut them in to one area of their parents allow them to roam and shout. There isn't that many of them who do this and for those that do it tends to only happens at certain times.

In saying that I think it's overall a great facility.

Rabo Karabekian

Larbre34 wrote: »

none of the study spaces nearby can be used with any degree of peace, in fact there is little peace and quiet to be had in any area of the library and students and researchers are asking them all the time about cordoning off areas and noise reduction.

Tabnabs wrote: »

Top floor, you can hear a pin drop (apart from the fact that it's carpet). Complete silence. A whole floor of silence. Dedicated as the quiet area and with excellent facilities.

uch wrote: »

My Daughter studies there on her own for the upcoming leaving cert., she says there's nowhere quieter, she loves the place

This seems to be the general feeling about the library that I've heard (haven't had a chance to visit it myself yet). Some people saying that it's noisy as hell, others saying that particular areas are completely silent. It can't just be different people tolerating different levels of noise.

Schadenfreudia

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

This seems to be the general feeling about the library that I've heard (haven't had a chance to visit it myself yet). Some people saying that it's noisy as hell, others saying that particular areas are completely silent. It can't just be different people tolerating different levels of noise.

I suspect folk who disliked this building from the start are hearing voices in their head!

Since it opened - compared to the same period in the old library, visits, membership and book lending are all surging.

Rabo Karabekian

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I suspect folk who disliked this building from the start are hearing voices in their head!

Since it opened - compared to the same period in the old library, visits, membership and book lending are all surging.

Yeah, that's what I would think, it's just odd that apparently members of staff are venting their frustration at what is apparently a building that is incapable of keeping noise from any of the levels and then members of the public seeing the top level as completely silent and perfect for studying.

The two points of view are incompatible with each other and somebody is clearing making stuff up. I don't find myself in Dun Laoghaire at all anymore, but must pay a visit at some point and see for myself.

markpb

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

It can't just be different people tolerating different levels of noise.

Why not?

Rabo Karabekian

markpb wrote: »

Why not?

The difference between a completely silent space (hearing a pin drop) and a building that is not fit for purpose (noise from the lower level being clearly heard and being disruptive on the top floor) isn't subjective. I may have a higher tolerance of noise, but I wouldn't describe a study space where I could hear children shouting and screaming as somewhere that I could 'hear a pin drop'.

The space is either an excellent study area (noise disruption is minimal) or it leaks noise from the lower levels.

markpb

Noise levels are incredibly subjective. One mans tranquillity is another man's creche. It would also differ depending on the time of the day, the day of the week, the people in the library at the time and the volume that your hearing aid is set to.

And that's before you get the people who hate it because it's new or it's ugly (in their opinion) and assume the inside must be a failure.

CatFromHue

There's no books to rent on the top floor so the general public tend not to go up there making it much quieter. Even the staff have no real need to go up there.

Tabnabs

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's no books to rent on the top floor so the general public tend not to go up there making it much quieter. Even the staff have no real need to go up there.

All the books along the west wall can be loaned out, they are old and probably out of print, but many interesting reads to be found among them.

There are also quite a few offices on the top floor so there is coming and going of staff members and visitors. Yet the area is still incredibly quiet and designated as the quiet area.

Chinasea

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

The difference between a completely silent space (hearing a pin drop) and a building that is not fit for purpose (noise from the lower level being clearly heard and being disruptive on the top floor) isn't subjective. I may have a higher tolerance of noise, but I wouldn't describe a study space where I could hear children shouting and screaming as somewhere that I could 'hear a pin drop'.

The space is either an excellent study area (noise disruption is minimal) or it leaks noise from the lower levels.

I was amazed as to the internal planning for a library with regards to the noise leakage. I clearly heard the 'open community crèche' on the second floor from the study area on the top floor and further amazed at the two kiddies who had a great running match up and down the stairs - better than reading books I'd imagine!

Haven't managed to get back in again though seeing as the €36 million community library is closed on Sundays (the busiest day in Dun Laoghaire) and the recent bank-holiday.

CatFromHue

its pretty standard in oz and nz for libraries to close on public holidays, it's not just an irish thing

uch

CatFromHue wrote: »

its pretty standard in oz and nz for libraries to close on public holidays, it's not just an irish thing

I'd say if they opened 24/7 you'd still have people moaning about something or other, it's the Irish way

josip

uch wrote: »

I'd say if they opened 24/7 you'd still have people moaning about something or other, it's the Irish way

Yep, we even moan about people moaning.

CatFromHue

josip wrote: »

Yep, we even moan about people moaning.

I hope you're not moaning about the people who moan about people moaning?

JayRoc

A library that has to have a designated "quiet zone", you couldn't make it up

RainyDay

JayRoc wrote: »

A library that has to have a designated "quiet zone", you couldn't make it up

It's a fairly standard approach in libraries all over the world;

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/using/floorplans/zones.html

https://www.kent.ac.uk/library/templeman/study/zones.html


http://www.southdublinlibraries.ie/news/2013/11/quiet-zone

https://galter.northwestern.edu/about-us/collaborative-quiet-and-silent-study-zones

CatFromHue

JayRoc wrote: »

A library that has to have a designated "quiet zone", you couldn't make it up

I think alot of university libraries in Ireland would love to have a designated quiet zone.