Reality of Dun Laoghaire Library

Larbre34 · 03-09-2014 9:44am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Heaven forbid someone spend money on maintaining things if it bends the law.

That was the stuff Tribunals were made of.

Bits_n_Bobs · 03-09-2014 10:44am

Larbre34 wrote: »

It isnt rates money that pays for all those things, its massive reserves of planning levies left over from the boom. The rates go in to current spending, which is already bare to the bone. The Councils couldnt spend their levies reserves on day to day things like maintenance or rates cuts even if they wanted to, it would be illegal, they must spend it on new roads, parks and amenities, water supplies etc. or else it wouldnt get spent at all.

Here's a novel idea - how about they spend it on social housing?

ted1 · 03-09-2014 11:14am

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Here's a novel idea - how about they spend it on social housing?

No thanks....

Bits_n_Bobs · 03-09-2014 11:31am

ted1 wrote: »

No thanks....

You'd prioritise an oversized butt ugly building a quarter full of data stored in an obsolete format, over putting a roof over someones head?

Fratton Fred · 03-09-2014 1:39pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

That was the stuff Tribunals were made of.

Any council who decided to resurface roads and pavements rather than build a white elephant is not going to be subject to a tribunal.

RainyDay · 03-09-2014 1:43pm

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Here's a novel idea - how about they spend it on social housing?

Here's a novel idea, how about we wait for it to open and see how many people use it, how many books are borrowed, how many hours of study take place, how many community group meetings are held, how many music performances or practices take place - and then we judge its success from that?

Or are you really suggesting that we cut all arts and education funding until there is no-one homeless?

Bits_n_Bobs · 03-09-2014 2:38pm

RainyDay wrote: »

r are you really suggesting that we cut all arts and education funding until there is no-one homeless?

Yes I'd chop public spending on the arts and spend it on homeless in a heart beat. Shockingly I believe human rights such as housing outweigh the arts 'rights' to public funding.

If you can point me towards a piece of research that makes an explicit link between libraries and educational outcomes I'd appreciate it.

ted1 · 03-09-2014 5:15pm

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

You'd prioritise an oversized butt ugly building a quarter full of data stored in an obsolete format, over putting a roof over someones head?

It's a not a choice of A V B. If it didn't go to the library I would rather it went some other than welfare recipients. There's far to much given by the state on hand outs. I'd rather see it go on projects that give a hand up rather than a hand out.

Here's the type logic I would use.

Why are people home less? Because they don't have a home.
Why don't they have a home ? Because they have no money.
Why don't they have money ?
Because they left school and are unemployable.
Based on the above I would put it into projects that help kids stay in school.

Glenalla · 03-09-2014 5:29pm

ted1 wrote: »

It's a not a choice of A V B. If it didn't go to the library I would rather it went some other than welfare recipients. There's far to much given by the state on hand outs. I'd rather see it go on projects that give a hand up rather than a hand out.

Here's the type logic I would use.

Why are people home less? Because they don't have a home.
Why don't they have a home ? Because they have no money.
Why don't they have money ?
Because they left school and are unemployable.
Based on the above I would put it into projects that help kids stay in school.

I would tend to agree, there is no point in just keeping dishing out resources as handouts, we need to tackle the problem at source and that is job creation and education, this is where money should be pumped especially at present when we have young people leaving the country in vast numbers leaving an aging population which will all need pension pots to be fed.
Its probably better in another thread though.

Chinasea · 03-09-2014 7:02pm

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

. Shockingly I believe human rights such as housing outweigh the arts 'rights' to public funding.

Shockingly so do most of us. Dun Laoghaire has heaps, heaps and more heaps of social housing. We also have a methadone clinic, a homeless shelter, numerous halting sites, and various Crisis centres! Enough already.

RainyDay · 03-09-2014 8:35pm

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Yes I'd chop public spending on the arts and spend it on homeless in a heart beat. Shockingly I believe human rights such as housing outweigh the arts 'rights' to public funding .
.

You'd better start working on your manifesto for the next election so. I guess most people see the need for arts and cultural services like libraries. Nice try at twisting into "the arts 'rights' to public funding".

ted1 wrote: »

It's a not a choice of A V B. If it didn't go to the library I would rather it went some other than welfare recipients. There's far to much given by the state on hand outs. I'd rather see it go on projects that give a hand up rather than a hand out.

Here's the type logic I would use.

Why are people home less? Because they don't have a home.
Why don't they have a home ? Because they have no money.
Why don't they have money ?
Because they left school and are unemployable.
Based on the above I would put it into projects that help kids stay in school.

So the couple of generations who have already left school with poor education and no qualifications go on the scrap heap?

Glenalla wrote: »

I would tend to agree, there is no point in just keeping dishing out resources as handouts, we need to tackle the problem at source and that is job creation and education, this is where money should be pumped especially at present when we have young people leaving the country in vast numbers leaving an aging population which will all need pension pots to be fed.
Its probably better in another thread though.

Education you're looking for?

http://dlrcoco.ie/library/byki.html
http://dlrcoco.ie/library/language.html
http://dlrcoco.ie/library/classroomsets.html
http://dlrcoco.ie/library/bibliotherapy.html
http://www.dlrcoco.ie/arts/creative_writing_dundrum.htm

They also do IT courses in the library from time to time, and provide access to eLearning services.

Tabnabs · 04-09-2014 2:18pm

The excitement is building

https://twitter.com/CormacDevlin/status/507233404828803075

Bits_n_Bobs · 05-09-2014 1:20pm

Total of 4 photos in that tweet and they choose one (partial) one of the actual building...

Cookie_Monster · 05-09-2014 1:39pm

since when is a library about arts and culture and not education?

@Bits_n_Bobs Libraries are education tools to help with the exact situation you're describing.

Yer Aul One · 05-09-2014 1:52pm

Its Dun Laoghaire's Boston City Hall

Larbre34 · 05-09-2014 2:36pm

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Its Dun Laoghaire's Boston City Hall

Indeed, that infamous piece of brutalist architecture is a good reference. Open now for 45 years and still as controversial as ever. The people who have to work in it and pass by it every day hate it. Some architects and publications have lauded it. Anyone see a pattern emerging?

At least BCH is in context with the surrounding site.

brianblaze · 05-09-2014 2:37pm

RainyDay · 05-09-2014 2:44pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

The people who have to work in it and pass by it every day hate it.

All of them?

Yer Aul One · 05-09-2014 4:35pm

RainyDay wrote: »

All of them?

I would say the majority. If a building brings out this much bad feeling, even in the minority of people (although I think it's the majority), the architect has failed.

The minute I saw it, I felt Dun Laoghaire had lost some charm. Buildings last a long time. I will hate this building for a long time.

RainyDay · 05-09-2014 4:43pm

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I would say the majority.

Have you spoken to the majority of them, or surveyed them?

I had never heard of it before today, but it does have its friends (literally http://friendsofbostoncityhall.org/#) and it did get some degree of positive reception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_City_Hall#Positive_reception

Bits_n_Bobs · 05-09-2014 4:49pm

Why do you want to report someones opinion of something as being silly?

Yer Aul One · 05-09-2014 4:57pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Have you spoken to the majority of them, or surveyed them?

Yes

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2014 4:00pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Here's a novel idea, how about we wait for it to open and see how many people use it, how many books are borrowed, how many hours of study take place, how many community group meetings are held, how many music performances or practices take place - and then we judge its success from that?

Or are you really suggesting that we cut all arts and education funding until there is no-one homeless?

What goes on inside it is completely irrelevant, the building itself defaces the entire area and should be gotten rid of regardless.

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2014 4:14pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

scale and height eh?

TBF, it fits right in with the other high rise private properties all around it.

Want to revisit this: Your post is a fallacy specifically because of the angle. The height itself is not the issue with the Library, it's how far forward it is compared to the rest of Dun Laoghaire.

To put it another way, Dun Laoghaire naturally slopes downwards towards the sea. This building begins at the height of the others around it at town level, but then slowes upwards as it approaches the sea, so that at sea level it seems unbelievably vast and cuts off the view from a whole bunch of different places, completely dominating the skyline. That's the problem.

Had they built it to slope downward naturally with the land as opposed to simply sticking out like a gigantic ship's butt, it wouldn't be so bad.

RainyDay · 06-09-2014 8:01pm

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Yes

Congrats, that puts your other points on the thread in context nicely.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What goes on inside it is completely irrelevant, the building itself defaces the entire area and should be gotten rid of regardless.

What happens inside the building is far from irrelevant for the many people who will be going inside. If they share your opinion about the building, they are unlikely to enter it. If the vast majority aren't really that bothered about the building, it will be another successful library in DLR.

But if you want things to get at DLRCoCo about, try this;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-in-talks-to-buy-5m-fernhill-house-and-gardens-1.1916854

hatrickpatrick · 07-09-2014 12:46pm

RainyDay wrote: »

If they share your opinion about the building, they are unlikely to enter it. If the vast majority aren't really that bothered about the building, it will be another successful library in DLR.

To be fair, that's a bit of a fallacy. A lot of people disagree with Shannon Airport being used by US troops, but if they have to use the airport for business themselves they probably still will. I'm sure many people take part in things they disapprove of for one reason or another out of necessity. It's by no means a measure of how many people are actually happy about the size or design.

RainyDay · 07-09-2014 6:15pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To be fair, that's a bit of a fallacy. A lot of people disagree with Shannon Airport being used by US troops, but if they have to use the airport for business themselves they probably still will. I'm sure many people take part in things they disapprove of for one reason or another out of necessity. It's by no means a measure of how many people are actually happy about the size or design.

No one HAS to use Shannon Airport. If they really dislike the US troops thing, they can go to Shannon or Dublin, it's just a couple of hours drive away. If they're not bothered to do a 2 hour drive, then they're not that bothered about the US trips.

Same for DLR library.

Aard · 07-09-2014 7:00pm

People are lazy. If they need a library they'll use the DLR one even if they dislike the architecture. Likewise with the Shannon/Dublin analogy. I can't believe this is even up for debate!

hatrickpatrick · 07-09-2014 8:10pm

RainyDay wrote: »

No one HAS to use Shannon Airport. If they really dislike the US troops thing, they can go to Shannon or Dublin, it's just a couple of hours drive away. If they're not bothered to do a 2 hour drive, then they're not that bothered about the US trips.

Same for DLR library.

So there's no scenario in which a route being served by Shannon at a particular time is not being served by Dublin, or is far less expensive?
As Aard has said, the fact that we're actually debating this point is ridiculous. The library could be the most epic public amenity ever created, some will still oppose it because they oppose the defacement of the seafront area, regardless of functionality.

Hair in and around one's arse crack arguably helps to keep warm whilst wandering around in the nude, that doesn't necessarily make it attractive.

RainyDay · 07-09-2014 9:01pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So there's no scenario in which a route being served by Shannon at a particular time is not being served by Dublin, or is far less expensive?

Yes, there are lots of such scenarios where Shannon will be cheaper or more convenient. All these scenarios put the degree of commitment to not approving of Shannon Airport to the test.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As Aard has said, the fact that we're actually debating this point is ridiculous. The library could be the most epic public amenity ever created, some will still oppose it because they oppose the defacement of the seafront area, regardless of functionality.

Yes, it is indeed fairly ridiculous. Some will oppose it regardless of how it looks. Some will oppose it regardless of functionality. Some will oppose it because of taste. Some will just oppose it.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Hair in and around one's arse crack arguably helps to keep warm whilst wandering around in the nude, that doesn't necessarily make it attractive.

Thanks, that's tonight's nightmare sorted then.

Reality of Dun Laoghaire Library

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