Query about landlord calling to collect rent

Wabbit Ears

So the OP should just assume this to be true, assume that nothing good will ever come of living in this guys rental property and walk away?

Obviously you nor anyone you know is trying to find affordable rental peoperty in dublin at the moment.

drumswan

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Folks, rent is not paid by direct debit, as that would give the landlord permission to deduct any amount once he gave you notice of the debit. It is either a bank transfer (manually done by the OP every month) or a standing order (which is a set amount that is debited on a certain date, this can be daily, weekly, monthly etc)

Of course, standing order not direct debit!

Wabbit Ears wrote:

Its a PITA for him to do this every fortnight so Id imagine his reasons are strong enough to go through the hassle. Hes probebly more put outy then the tennent is who only has to make sure the rent is there and hes actually in at the collection times.

This is comical. The tenant 'only' has to meet the landlord 26 times a year to hand over cash to him. Do you think people have nothing else to do?

Professional service providers offer electronic payment as it is secure and convenient for both parties. Its 2014.

Ice Storm

I've paid rent by cash before. The landlord wasn't dodgy, just old school.

We had a rent book that he signed every month and he had no problem giving us his details to claim tax credits.

If given the choice I would have preferred to by standing order but paying by cash had its benefits - he would often notice little things that could be improved about the place. When we paid our rent at Christmas, he gave us €50 back!

Just wanted to point out that not all cash in hand landlords are cowboys but I would try and get him to agree to once a month instead of every two weeks.

Funky G

Paying cash to the LL every two weeks? He /she must have so much time to spare.

I've heard of some LL's doing this on a monthly basis - most likely that they are not tax compliant and they are not registered with the PRTB. A friend of mine was in accommodation and the LL was paid monthly in cash. I'll ask him did he at least get a receipt or sign the rent book proving that he - the tenant - paid or was the LL registered.

Best advice is to get your LL to do this once a month. Get a journal of some sort to keep records of all transactions - times, dates, monies handed over, etc.

Go through your contract and check what are the terms for payment. As for the rent increase the LL is only allowed an increase once a year, and not in mid-agreement.

Lemlin

I know a LL who owns many properties in Dublin and refuses to accept electronic payment. Nothing to do with being "old school", he simply has that many properties that he would find payments going all over the place and it would be impossible to track them all.

He also says he found it far easier for people to fiddle payments by electronic means than if he has a representative calling once a week or month to collect the rent and fill out a rent book with the tenant.

Of course it also means he is keeping a close eye on all the properties.

drumswan

Lemlin wrote: »

I know a LL who owns many properties in Dublin and refuses to accept electronic payment. Nothing to do with being "old school", he simply has that many properties that he would find payments going all over the place and it would be impossible to track them all.

Come off it, you can export inbound payments to a spreadsheet with a click of a button from any online bank. I presume he also has an accountant.

Maybe he should call round to each tenant and get 1/365th of the annual rent every day

Lemlin

drumswan wrote: »

Come off it, you can export inbound payments to a spreadsheet with a click of a button from any online bank. I presume he also has an accountant.

Maybe he should call round to each tenant and get 1/365th of the annual rent every day

This man owns alot of properties and has one employee looking after them all on a full-time basis. I doubt he even knows how to open Microsoft Excel.

He does have an accountant.

drumswan

Running a business involving multiple six figure assets, doesn't know how to operate a spreadsheet program and travels around collecting cash from his clients, causing them inconvenience and intruding on their privacy. Sounds like a particular breed of Irish landlord alright.

beauf

Lemlin wrote: »

I know a LL who owns many properties in Dublin and refuses to accept electronic payment. Nothing to do with being "old school", he simply has that many properties that he would find payments going all over the place and it would be impossible to track them all.

He also says he found it far easier for people to fiddle payments by electronic means than if he has a representative calling once a week or month to collect the rent and fill out a rent book with the tenant.

Of course it also means he is keeping a close eye on all the properties.

That makes no sense.

He's either technophobic and/or doesn't want the cash tracked and/or
wants to apply pressure via physic presence of a "representative"

beauf

drumswan wrote: »

..Sounds like a particular breed of Irish landlord alright.

Maybe specialises in a particular breed of Irish tenant....

beauf

davesangel wrote: »

Thanks everyone.

I'll give a bit more background info: My current landlord has upped our rent a lot and without significant period of notice, and there are serious issues with the property which have never been fixed, so I am keen to get out of there. He has turned quite nasty when I have brought up legitimate problems so I want to get out. The new property I have mentioned above is the only one in my price limit and in a decent area of Dublin and I can move in anytime so I'm possibly meeting him tomorrow to pay deposit.

I'm not the best at confrontation, so am I definitely in my rights to say to him 'once a month only' - or to ask for bank transfer? sorry if this all makes me sound like a bit of a wuss!

Sounds like you're jumping from pan to fire.

drumswan

Both tenants and landlords need to apply common sense when entering into a business agreement of this scale. Landlords use things like RA requirements as a filter for perfectly good reasons, tenants need to recognise their own set of red flags. Expecting you to give up your own free time to organise an envelope full of cash every second Tuesday being one of them.

athtrasna

davesangel wrote: »

I'd be ok with paying in cash if it was changed to every 4 weeks...I guess I'll just see what he says.

You do realise that means 13 payments in a year right? If you get paid monthly you'll only get paid 12 times

on_my_oe

We had our rent collected for five years monthly in cash

1) the rent collector frequently wanted to collect a couple of days early, often only notifying us at 4pm he would be visiting that evening
2) the rent collector would turn up late eg 9pm or later when we had rushed home to be there at 6.30pm
3) he refused to provide a rent book - I provided a notebook and refused to hand over cash until he signed it
4) we were told by someone who knew him he collected in cash to do inspections, and also ensure he got his 15% cut of the rent as managing fee (eg if we paid by standing order, he was worried his client landlords wouldn't pay him)
5) when our landlord had his apartment repossessed, he claimed he hadn't received half of rent that we had paid (and a rent receipt for) - either the landlord was lying or the rent collector didn't pass it all along
6) we had the argument from hell getting the registration done, which was important for the rent relief at the time
7) we had our mortgage application declined due to the lack of paper trail

I would avoid a cash arrangement like the plague

Lemlin

drumswan wrote: »

Running a business involving multiple six figure assets, doesn't know how to operate a spreadsheet program and travels around collecting cash from his clients, causing them inconvenience and intruding on their privacy. Sounds like a particular breed of Irish landlord alright.

Yes, there's huge inconvenience in answering the door once a month to hand someone a cash payment and sign a rent book.

Not to mention the huge invasion of privacy

Mrs OBumble

Phil_Lives wrote: »

At the start of the contract you are entitled to agree the terms of the contract and you should be insisting upon payment by direct debit.

Ahh, no you absolutely should not.

A DD lets the other party take as much money as they want from your account at any time: they initiate the transaction every time.

A Standing Order is initiated by you, and gives you full control over when payments are made, and how much for.

SO = good practise.
DD = bad practise, unless you absolutely trust the other party.

The ONLY company I do DD with is ESB. All others can have standing orders (if appropriate) or I do a transaction each billing period.

Mrs OBumble

OP, one of your posts said you'd be worried about the rent going missing if you were working an evening shift and not at home to hand it over.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with paying 2-weekly (and actually did this for most of my renting life prior to coming to Ireland). Only having to carry half of the amount of cash actually makes it safer for you.

But the expectation that you would leave the rent in the house for him does not sit well. If he's calling to the house, then he needs to do it at a time to suit you. Or he needs to call to you at work or whatever other location is mutually convenient. Leaving cash lying around for him - or as you say, anyone else, to find Is Not On.

And when he does call to the house, then I would not expect him to get any further inside than the front porch.

awec

Remember OP - this means you are going to have to get cash out at the cash machine and for at least a short period have a large sum of cash on your person.

Also, if your rent is above your daily withdrawal rate (which it most likely is) then you will either have to take it from an ATM over two days (and make sure that you don't max yourself out on one of the days just in case you need emergency cash) or get yourself to a branch and actually go in to the bank.

I hate using cash for anything - even going to the shop. Can't wait for the day it no longer exists. Paying rent by cash would be a complete nuisance for you.

desertcircus

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes, there's huge inconvenience in answering the door once a month to hand someone a cash payment and sign a rent book.

Not to mention the huge invasion of privacy

There actually is a fair amount of inconvenience (and risk) involved in requiring a tenant to take out several hundred quid in cash, bring it back to their apartment or house, and then stay in waiting for the landlord to arrive so they can hand it over. Twelve times a year. A perfectly simple alternative exists and takes far less time and effort - pay it by standing order, which is better on every single count.

Snake

Well it could also be just the landlord a bit wary of you, making sure you're keeping the place well and such, cash in hand is not okay unless he provides a signed receipt every time and if he can't do that, tell him you'll pay him when he gets the receipt, don't hand him a deposit before moving in, that's a big no no. Obviously you can say look I'm not up to paying by cash, I'll do a standing order or not at all, don't just let him do whatever he wants, yeah it's his house but if you can't come to a mutual agreement it's better you find a landlord who's terms you can agree on and vice versa

Chattastrophe!

Our current landlord tried to insist on collecting cash monthly - "The old tenants had no problem with it" ... I told her I couldn't agree to this as it would mean two visits to the ATM on two separate days, and carrying a large amount of cash on me and also keeping a large amount of cash in the house, and I wouldn't be comfortable with this.

There's a very real security concern here - if there are any dodgy neighbours, they will notice the pattern of when the landlord calls to collect rent (whether every two weeks or every four weeks) and they will know you have a large amount of cash in the house at that time.

Also I value my privacy. I don't want an unofficial inspection of how we're keeping the property on a monthly basis.

And I don't want the hassle of having to arrange my plans around rent collection when I can pay online within a couple of minutes at a time that suits me.

The lack of paper trail is a big thing for me too.

By the way, you mentioned that you'll bring this up when you meet him to (possibly) pay deposit? If I were him, I'd be annoyed at that - if you're going to ask him about it, ring him now and ask him. Otherwise you're wasting both his time and yours if he's not willing to consider alternative arrangements.

odds_on

Lantus wrote: »

payment by cash means no paper trail as to what you have paid if there is ever a problem. I doubt he's going to be providing receipts either.

All sounds dodgy. Just because its a good area doesn't mean he isn't a scum bag.

A rent book!

Will there be a written lease or will the whole thing be a verbal agreement?

There are many reasons a landlord may want cash, other than not being tax compliant.

He may have been stung by rent arrears in recent years and finds that cash in hand every other week helps keep a check on it.

He may have been stung by severe property damage by a previous tenant (all new appliances) and wants to keep a check.

He may be renting out the property without the consent of a mortgage company and wants to keep the cash earned from them - could be problems down the road if a receiver takes over.

He may already be in difficulty with a mortgage and wants to keep the rental money from the mortgage company.

The final call is the OP's. This is the only property the OP can find in his/her price range and location so there is not much room to play with especially as the rents are increasing and the number of properties short and any that are available go quickly.

drumswan

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes, there's huge inconvenience in answering the door once a month to hand someone a cash payment and sign a rent book.

Not to mention the huge invasion of privacy

You have to be at home to answer the door. Its inconvenient. Also, I dont want my landlord anywhere near my place, I pay him five figures a year and expect peaceful enjoyment of my home.

Lemlin

drumswan wrote: »

You have to be at home to answer the door. Its inconvenient. Also, I dont want my landlord anywhere near my place, I pay him five figures a year and expect peaceful enjoyment of my home.

I must have missed where the thread was about your circumstances and your "five figures a year" and not that of the OP.

Getting back to the OP's point, it doesn't appear that he's in a position to pay the normal going rate so the OP is looking for something a bit cheaper. He can argue with this landlord and miss out on the property or he can accept what I would see as some minor rules.

I'm a landlord myself and paid by direct debit but I can see why people would insist on cash payment. There are plenty of reasons other than landlords fiddling tax.

desertcircus wrote: »

There actually is a fair amount of inconvenience (and risk) involved in requiring a tenant to take out several hundred quid in cash, bring it back to their apartment or house, and then stay in waiting for the landlord to arrive so they can hand it over. Twelve times a year. A perfectly simple alternative exists and takes far less time and effort - pay it by standing order, which is better on every single count.

As a landlord, I have rented my house on five occasions now. Three times the house has been left the way it was when the people moved in. Two times it has not been. Once I only found out that a tenant was keeping two St Bernards I had not been told about because a neighbour of the house rang me. These two dogs were far too big for the house and garden area, despite it having a large garden.

I wouldn't see it as a huge inconvenience for a landlord to want someone to call to the front porch of the house once a month to ensure that the house is being kept in order. You can generally tell that from the front garden and look of the house.

Snake

drumswan wrote: »

You have to be at home to answer the door. Its inconvenient. Also, I dont want my landlord anywhere near my place, I pay him five figures a year and expect peaceful enjoyment of my home.

And he doesn't want you to make **** of his house, he could spend those 5 figures in a month fixing damage may cause.. (Not to say you ARE) but it's common for landlords to keep any eye on their house, and well within their rights