Preordering - Stop the madness....

aperture_nuig

Cravez wrote: »

I remember back in the day when the concept of pre-ordering a game was to guarantee a copy of your game when it launched and to avoid disappointment since your local store had limited copies. Gradually it started changing, little by little...

"Pre-order and get a keyring"

"Pre-order and get alternative box art"

"Pre-order and get a free in-game item as well as alternative box art"

"Pre-order and get a free in-game item and huge game content unlock that non pre-order plebs won't receive! Plus alternative box art!"

It's now turned into a huge marketing area for companies to lure consumers and we have only ourselves to blame for voting for it with our cash.

This. I can't blame Ubi in all of this, they wouldn't be doing it if there wasn't money to be made from it.

XVII

Pre-order and get a pre-order.

gizmo

nesf wrote: »

I'm absolutely fine with pre-order if it is 10-25% off the retail price, so if it was already on your "must-have" list you can choose to save a bit. What I hate is these extra pre-order for DLC offers, which normally you can buy later. Instead of a discount on the main game you're being pre-sold DLC at a heavy discount at best.

The idea is to get you to buy the game at launch for full price so offering a discount for pre-orders would kind of defeat the purpose.

Conversely, if they're going to offer a reward for people who buy the game during the launch period (or pre-order for that matter) then a bit of extra content is a nicer way of doing it imo.

What I absolutely ****ing hate, on the other hand, are retailer and platform exclusives. Batman Origins with its PS3-exclusive Knightfall pack and Arkham Knight with its PS4-Scarecrow pack immediately spring to mind. I do remember the Transformers games having similar nonsense with additional bots available depending on which store you bought it from.

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

The idea is to get you to buy the game at launch for full price so offering a discount for pre-orders would kind of defeat the purpose.

Getting a discount is very common with PC pre-releases and is often commented on when it does not happen (e.g. Blizzard pretty much never does this and you might get a pet for pre-ordering at most). This is mainly due to the ability of publishers to "seed" Steam key resellers with limited numbers of cheap copies which when redeemed on Steam push the game up the Top Sellers list without having necessarily to offer a discount through Steam to everyone (though, some do do this).

This is usually combined with a preload on Steam before the actual release date which allows people to play as soon as the game unlocks. In theory anyway.

gizmo

nesf wrote: »

Getting a discount is very common with PC pre-releases and is often commented on when it does not happen (e.g. Blizzard pretty much never does this and you might get a pet for pre-ordering at most). This is mainly due to the ability of publishers to "seed" Steam key resellers with limited numbers of cheap copies which when redeemed on Steam push the game up the Top Sellers list without having necessarily to offer a discount through Steam to everyone (though, some do do this).

This is usually combined with a preload on Steam before the actual release date which allows people to play as soon as the game unlocks. In theory anyway.

Oh I'm not saying it doesn't happen, more just commenting on the actual purpose of all of this pre-order stuff. Things have obviously changed with the importance of the Steam (and other DD systems) storefronts and the propensity of folk to jump on discounted prices with less thought given to the purchase when they see a discount of nearly any kind applied compared to it being the RRP.

On a similar note, another nice way of rewarding pre-order buyers in the case of franchises is offering discounts for later iterations if you own the earlier ones. I'm pretty sure The Witcher 3 does this on Steam if you own the first two games and it acts as a nice thank you to fans.

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

Oh I'm not saying it doesn't happen, more just commenting on the actual purpose of all of this pre-order stuff. Things have obviously changed with the importance of the Steam (and other DD systems) storefronts and the propensity of folk to jump on discounted prices with less thought given to the purchase when they see a discount of nearly any kind applied compared to it being the RRP.

On a similar note, another nice way of rewarding pre-order buyers in the case of franchises is offering discounts for later iterations if you own the earlier ones. I'm pretty sure The Witcher 3 does this on Steam if you own the first two games and it acts as a nice thank you to fans.

I disagree, 10 years ago yeah, pre-ordering was about just selling you that copy, nowadays it's a big part of the marketing campaign (i.e. word of mouth + numbers they can talk about).

gizmo

nesf wrote: »

I disagree, 10 years ago yeah, pre-ordering was about just selling you that copy, nowadays it's a big part of the marketing campaign (i.e. word of mouth + numbers they can talk about).

You disagree with the notion that the purpose of pushing pre-orders so heavily is to get people to buy early or, more specifically, while it's full price?

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

You disagree with the notion that the purpose of pushing pre-orders so heavily is to get people to buy early or, more specifically, while it's full price?

I'm saying it's not *just* getting people to buy early, otherwise, why offer a discount? The value of being on the Steam Best Sellers list for a PC title is definitely not to be undervalued. Ditto the game appearing on friend's activity and those friend's icons appearing beside the game as "owned by." There's a lot more at stake than just selling you, your copy.

(I'm also giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not trying to get the game sold before the reviews are out.)

gizmo

nesf wrote: »

I'm saying it's not *just* getting people to buy early, otherwise, why offer a discount? The value of being on the Steam Best Sellers list for a PC title is definitely not to be undervalued. Ditto the game appearing on friend's activity and those friend's icons appearing beside the game as "owned by." There's a lot more at stake than just selling you, your copy.

(I'm also giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not trying to get the game sold before the reviews are out.)

Oh neither am I, but I'd take the position that it's their primary goal, most certainly on console and, to be a lesser extent, on PC due to the other factors you've mentioned.

In the pre-order discount case, such an approach will vary per publisher but, where it applies, I'd imagine they consider a <25% discount to be a reasonable trade off compared to people holding off for deeper discounts later or for more seasonal sales which, as mentioned before, have grown massively in scale.

Varik

gizmo wrote: »

The idea is to get you to buy the game at launch for full price so offering a discount for pre-orders would kind of defeat the purpose.

Getting people to buy it at full price day 1 isn't the point, it's to get stores to order it. If a shop has 100 preorders they're going to order 100+ themselves to fill the pre-orders and then have probably more than they would have had on shelve copies.

Now for digital this isn't the case anymore, but it's still more about getting those orders in a having some return on a huge investment as early as possible before you can change your mind.

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

Oh neither am I, but I'd take the position that it's their primary goal, most certainly on console and, to be a lesser extent, on PC due to the other factors you've mentioned.

In the pre-order discount case, such an approach will vary per publisher but, where it applies, I'd imagine they consider a <25% discount to be a reasonable trade off compared to people holding off for deeper discounts later or for more seasonal sales which, as mentioned before, have grown massively in scale.

Yeah, what I'm saying is a large part of the goal with pre-selling you a game is to turn it into two more pre-sales after you through network effects etc. One approach used in doing this is to make it look like "a good deal" by knocking some of the price off or bundling in extras (the latter is being seen less due to the backlash against non-cosmetic "DLC" in pre-orders, amongst other things).

Temptamperu

nesf wrote: »

(I'm also giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not trying to get the game sold before the reviews are out.)

fair play to you, but i bet the folks who pre-ordered colonial marines wont be offering the same trust in publishers as you. Watchdogs while its a good game runs like shít on all consoles and pc. Two cases of publishers lying just to get pre-orders and pre-orders on day one DLC and season passes. All bought before review "embargos"

Nody

I can recall the last three games I preordered.

They were from Blizzard... Anything else I'd only pre-order if I was in a beta for an extensive time and liked what I saw.

deathrider

Temptamperu wrote: »

fair play to you, but i bet the folks who pre-ordered colonial marines wont be offering the same trust in publishers as you. Watchdogs while its a good game runs like shít on all consoles and pc. Two cases of publishers lying just to get pre-orders and pre-orders on day one DLC and season passes. All bought before review "embargos"

Didn't Watchdogs also come with a hape of different pre-order packs too? All with different stuff available in them. I'm pretty sure I saw Jim Sterling talking about how they had a ridiculous number of different pre-order bonus packages, and how it was all very convoluted because of it.

Temptamperu

deathrider wrote: »

Didn't Watchdogs also come with a hape of different pre-order packs too? All with different stuff available in them. I'm pretty sure I saw Jim Sterling talking about how they had a ridiculous number of different pre-order bonus packages, and how it was all very convoluted because of it.

yeah there's tons of it. And with assassins creed unity ubisoft have more and more stuff, pre-orders bonuses with "iconic" weapons from the new game. Although i do like the ass creed games i always buy pre-owned and never buy DLC.
But people still pre-order as that is what the magic box told them to do.

Varik

Only games I've pre-ordered lately were digital and preloaded (PS3 ).

Generic Dreadhead

Can't believe its page 4 and no one has done this yet :pac:

Zero-Cool

I didn't mind preordering but I was a fool.......This REALLY does have to stop but I fear we're too late

http://kotaku.com/gamestops-preorder-plans-sound-like-bad-news-1601428457?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

According to a report on GamesBeat, the retail giant recently met with investment company R.W. Baird to talk about the company's future, and one of Baird's analysts has revealed some of the things that they spoke about.
"[GamesStop] indicated that software publishers are more enthusiastic about partnering with it," Baird's Colin Sebastian wrote. "For example, by offering exclusive content on each major game release, and longer term, future models may include GameStop offering exclusive gameplay."
GamesBeat asked him to clarify what exactly that "future model" meant, and Sebastian added the retailer is thinking about "getting involved at the time of game development where there could be some content exclusive to [the retailer] included in the game."
So if you thought it was stupid that peripheral content like skins and maps was split up between retailers, just wait until GameStop can offer actual parts of a game you can't get anywhere else. Then wait for Walmart and Best Buy and Amazon to catch on. It'll be great.
We've contacted GameStop for comment, and will update if we hear back.

Stone Deaf 4evr

sheehy83 wrote: »

I didn't mind preordering but I was a fool.......This REALLY does have to stop but I fear we're too late

http://kotaku.com/gamestops-preorder-plans-sound-like-bad-news-1601428457?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

We're too late already, didnt preordering call of duty ghosts at gamestop give you an unlock code to get camo in black ops 2 ? that was the only way of getting that camo as well AFAIK.

Zero-Cool

Ah Camo is harmless, a full level with input from Gamestop is awful. Although saying that, it's already done between devs and consoles. Ubi always gives Sony an exclusive level. Something very durty though about Gamestop being brought in at design level.

The sooner Gamestop go under the better. They are the least competitive gaming retailer out there and aren't above flat out lying to their customers.

gizmo

Deleted User wrote: »

The sooner Gamestop go under the better. They are the least competitive gaming retailer out there and aren't above flat out lying to their customers.

Not to point out the obvious but wouldn't it be nicer to see Gamestop reform their customer service policies due to people changing their purchasing habits rather than ~17,000 losing their jobs?

Generic Dreadhead

gizmo wrote: »

Not to point out the obvious but wouldn't it be nicer to see Gamestop reform their customer service policies due to people changing their purchasing habits rather than ~17,000 losing their jobs?

Couldn't have said it better.

Penn

gizmo wrote: »

Not to point out the obvious but wouldn't it be nicer to see Gamestop reform their customer service policies due to people changing their purchasing habits rather than ~17,000 losing their jobs?

The problem is, would reforming their customer service policies have the knock-on effect of having to close down anyway? If they did even half of what customers wanted (probably most notably reduce cost of second-hand games), would they even make a profit any more?

gizmo

Penn wrote: »

The problem is, would reforming their customer service policies have the knock-on effect of having to close down anyway? If they did even half of what customers wanted (probably most notably reduce cost of second-hand games), would they even make a profit any more?

Possibly, but as I said, I'd much rather seem them make an attempt at reforming the more objectionable aspects of their business practices than hoping they fail outright as they are.

Looking at their Q1 financials and their direction going forward, it appears they're adapting somewhat but with $2b in sales for the last quarter alone, there's still a hell of lot of people giving them their business.

Generic Dreadhead

gizmo wrote: »

there's still a hell of lot of people giving them their business.

Like me, it's part of trying to stimulate the economy

gizmo

gizmo wrote: »

Not to point out the obvious but wouldn't it be nicer to see Gamestop reform their customer service policies due to people changing their purchasing habits rather than ~17,000 losing their jobs?

Problem is that were they to do so then you'd probably have mass closures. They seem unwilling to compete with any retailers and it's common to find that GameStop is a good 10-20 euro more expensive than other places and their second hand pricing is a joke. Still it wouldn't be too bad if that was the worst they did but it's common to hear stories of how staff and managers lie to customers and deliberately mislead them so as to secure a sale.

gizmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Problem is that were they to do so then you'd probably have mass closures. They seem unwilling to compete with any retailers and it's common to find that GameStop is a good 10-20 euro more expensive than other places and their second hand pricing is a joke. Still it wouldn't be too bad if that was the worst they did but it's common to hear stories of how staff and managers lie to customers and deliberately mislead them so as to secure a sale.

Oh yea, I've seen folk mention their prices around here and they do seem rather high, so much so that they appear to be selling close to the RRP for the major titles. Probably doesn't help that there's not as much competition on the high street any more.

Whether such a policy change would result in closures remains to be seen though. While there are clearly a lot of people shopping there, there's always the argument that dropping their new prices (I'm not getting into their second hand practices) could lead to more people not only buying new more often but also increasing footfall in their stores in general and regaining the business lost to online stores. As for the lying, that's flat out reprehensible but as quoted above, their revenues are still massive so unless people start taking their business elsewhere, that's not going to change any time soon.

Varik

gizmo wrote: »

Oh yea, I've seen folk mention their prices around here and they do seem rather high, so much so that they appear to be selling close to the RRP for the major titles. Probably doesn't help that there's not as much competition on the high street any more.

Whether such a policy change would result in closures remains to be seen though. While there are clearly a lot of people shopping there, there's always the argument that dropping their new prices (I'm not getting into their second hand practices) could lead to more people not only buying new more often but also increasing footfall in their stores in general and regaining the business lost to online stores. As for the lying, that's flat out reprehensible but as quoted above, their revenues are still massive so unless people start taking their business elsewhere, that's not going to change any time soon.

They've sold a few games above RRP, some PS4/One games were €75 in gamestop.

They also charge more for the below normal RRP games, so anyone looking for The Last of Us in there will probably pay more as well and not get the discount.

DARK-KNIGHT

having experienced the wrath of an irate gamestop manager let me just say if they do go under i will not be too upset. the company are a joke refused to return faulty items before less than a month old