Woman faces life in prison for stopping to save ducklings

mad muffin

RoisinDove wrote: »

No it isn't. It's completely misleading.

It implies she's facing jail for trying to save the ducklings.

She isn't.

She's facing jail because two people died due to her stupidity.

The ducklings don't really come into it.

Did you really need that explained?

Yet you still can't come up with a better thread title.

" Woman faces life in prison for deaths caused by stopping in the overtaking lane!"

Bongalongherb

Rips wrote: »

Meanwhile in Ireland, a boy who gets drunk and violently attacks and stabs someone to death is sentenced to 7 years for murder ...

Stupid - yes, Guilty - yes!! Lifetime driving ban and a hefty suspended sentence seems more appropriate.

As far as the other motorists being at fault here, there doesn't seem to be enough detail, even at a slower speed, there was still the potential for serious injury and death. Its seems clear from the state of the car that they made no attempt to even avoid collision. I'd wonder if the two bikes weren't travelling side by side or quite close together, effecting the father's ability to swerve and put other members of his family at risk. Carrying a passenger on a motorbike while speeding on a motorway, not exactly clever either. Driving in the overtaking lane?

Tragic and stupid all round IMO

I think she should have to go through a 6 month course of how not to be stupid. A person like this would be better off getting direct help in relation to her actions. She needs help not being dumped in a prison with hardened criminals for life, this would be nonsensical.

Maybe a year long course 'mandatory' to teach her the dangers of all things she does in her life. It will never happen again if this was the case.

mad muffin

Deleted User wrote: »

" Woman faces life in prison for deaths caused by stopping in the overtaking lane!"

To do what? Oh that's right. Save ducklings :rolleyes:

Bongalongherb

Deleted User wrote: »

" Woman faces life in prison for deaths caused by stopping in the overtaking lane!"

? Clarify.

IrishEyes19

I can understand her need to help the ducklings, its admirable. But she pulled up in the road when there were cars coming and her actions resulted in the death if two innocent people. It's not the issue of the ducks at hand here, its her reckless driving. Her concern for human life was non existent here

Bongalongherb

Bongalongherb wrote: »

? Clarify.

Is it not clear enough in less than 60 characters, any longer and it would get truncated!.

feargale

catallus wrote: »

How do you know she isn't some duck-saving maniac, wilfully putting the lives of people in danger to save all things that waddle and quack?!

Hmmm. I can imagine the judge thinking : this woman could be a duck-saving maniac. There's no evidence to that effect, but who knows? It could be so. I'd better assume that is so and throw the kitchen sink at her. Who knows? I could be right.

In many jurisdictions, it is illegal to put animals safety before that of humans, in other words if a dog runs into the road and there is a pedestrian in your "avoidance" route, then you're supposed to not avoid the dog to save risking the pedestrians life.

And then the pedestrian comes over and accuses you of being a "dog killer".

Chattastrophe!

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I hate those misleading headlines ... she's not in prison for stopping to save ducklings, she's in prison for causing an accident which killed two people.

So is it people or ducklings that are most important? I want to got to bed soon, so I want to clear this up as soon as possible.

BeerSteakBirds

She took two people's lives- took away the wifes family. If I did that so recklessly and stupidly I would consider my own life worthless and want to leave this earth just so the widow does not have to think about me possibly enjoying my life any longer. So my thoughts are with the victims. Of course I do not know this case inside out. Maybe the killer is mentally ill in which case I am not qualified to judge.

Capt'n Midnight

emeldc wrote: »

In the US you can make what could be seen as a mistake no matter how stupid and they lock you up and throw away the key.

Yeah , yeah in the US you can get life for a third offence , like shoplifting a jacket or something.

Anyway it's a story from CANADA

and she hasn't been sentenced yet ,

and the max sentence is 14 years not life

and it's her first offence


so I'll go out on a limb here and am guessing that she won't be spending the rest of her life in a US jail

Bongalongherb

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it not clear enough in less than 60 characters, any longer and it would get truncated!.

There is more to this than 60 characters, of which is shown in the news story, over-speeding. His wife was driving slower and was un-injured...As in... she was watching her speed and was observant in relation to her speed and surroundings.

Both were at fault unfortunately. The driver of the motorcycle should have driven slower especially with his young daughter on-board. And that idiot stopping her car on the highway. Both were at fault. Speeding is the most common problem when it comes to accidents. Don't speed, and then at least you will have some leeway as to slow to a stop or manoeuvre without injury.

Awkward Badger

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Yeah , yeah in the US you can get life for a third offence , like shoplifting a jacket or something.

Anyway it's a story from CANADA

and she hasn't been sentenced yet ,

and the max sentence is 14 years not life

and it's her first offence


so I'll go out on a limb here and am guessing that she won't be spending the rest of her life in a US jail

Convicted on four counts according to the article. 2 carrying a max of life and 2 a max of 14 years. I know its not America or she'll be in an American Jail. But...

Emma Czornobaj was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.

ardle1

You know what, I hadn't even read the article before I went through some off these posts. And in my mind I knew the mother had probably come to terms with what happened and would want leniency(and even feel pity) for this '25' year old woman who has to live with her actions for the rest off her life. I've just read the article, and I was right...
No bloody way should she serve life in prison!
This is going to sound stupid 'to some of you'.
But she made a mistake, I know I know a mistake that caused the deaths off two people. But I certainly do not think she deserves a lengthy prison sentence never mind life!

feargale

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

If I did that so recklessly and stupidly I would consider my own life worthless and want to leave this earth just so the widow does not have to think about me possibly enjoying my life any longer.

Hands up anybody here who has never made a bad judgement while driving. Hands up anybody who is utterly confident of never doing so in future.

@BeerSteakBirds I hope you never find yourself in that predicament. But if you do I'm sure none of us here would want you to regard your own life so cheaply.H Hara kiri isn't a solution to anything.

My suggested sentence: a lifetime driving ban ( with a long prison sentence if breached ) and something short of a prison sentence, maybe community service. By all means jailblackguards, but this is not thuggery.

Bongalongherb

Bongalongherb wrote: »

There is more to this than 60 characters, of which is shown in the news story, over-speeding. His wife was driving slower and was un-injured...As in... she was watching her speed and was observant in relation to her speed and surroundings.

Both were at fault unfortunately. The driver of the motorcycle should have driven slower especially with his young daughter on-board. And that idiot stopping her car on the highway. Both were at fault. Speeding is the most common problem when it comes to accidents. Don't speed, and then at least you will have some leeway as to slow to a stop or manoeuvre without injury.

I was actually replying to the post that was requesting an more appropriate title for this thread.

goz83

As it was the overtaking lane, maybe the motorcyclist was overtaking

And maybe it was simply too late when he got into the overtaking lane. He may have been checking his side mirror and it was all too late. Just another scenario to consider.

The driver/parker of the car should get some jail time. Even 3 months. Few accidents are caused by smart behaviour on the road and what she did was beyond stupid, so the old "ah, but she just made a mistake" doesn't wash with me. Words can't describe it. She should have her license taken away for life.

darkpagandeath

Even if the Motor bike driver was speeding, The woman should still be charged with criminal negligence causing death. She was not broken down it was not an action out of her control. She made an active decision to stop in that lane of the motor way that action lead to the deaths of 2 people. People can't see into the future and yes should drive at a speed for the conditions of the road in question. We don't even know if the speed was to low or high for that stretch of road. Motorway speed limits here can be to slow of the quality of the road, and to fast for some other roads. Speed yes probably a minor contributing factor in this case, We do know though if the car was not stopped on the road there would not have been an accident. So primary contribution to the accident was the woman's choice to stop on an active motorway.

whiteandlight

Why are so many jumping to the conclusion that they were speeding/not enough due care? If the car was at a dead stop have you any idea how hard you would need to brake even not speeding? And how long a stopping distance is needed, nevermind the face that the average human brain would be like "wtf, she can't really be stopped? That cars not stopped is it? No hazards? OMG I'm gaining on her so fast...." The mother was travelling behind them, not necessarily slower.

The other driver said they had to swerve to get out of the way as it was too late to brake. If the motorbike was just behind the car they wouldn't have known it was stopped unttil after she swerved-there wasn't even hazards on ffs.

Cookie_Monster

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Source: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/06/23/woman-who-stopped-car-help-ducks-faces-life-prison-causing-fatal-crash

What's a "roughly 60 mph zone"

osarusan

Horrible, horrible, tragic story. Lives ended and survivors' lives ruined.

I still think that life in prison is incredibly harsh though.

whiteandlight wrote: »

Why are so many jumping to the conclusion that they were speeding/not enough due care? If the car was at a dead stop have you any idea how hard you would need to brake even not speeding?

Isn't driving too fast/being to close to the vehicle in front pretty much a textbook example of driving without due care?

AlanS181824

Awful story wow.

darkpagandeath

osarusan wrote: »

Horrible, horrible, tragic story. Lives ended and survivors' lives ruined.

I still think that life in prison is incredibly harsh though.


Isn't driving too fast/being to close to the vehicle in front pretty much a textbook example of driving without due care?

And effectively parking your car on a motorway is Criminal neglect regardless of your motives.

osarusan

Different versions of the story too.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/06/20/woman-faces-life-in-prison-for-stopping-car-to-help-ducks-causing-crash-that/

Roy’s wife Pauline Volikakis was injured when her Yamaha motorcycle also slammed into Czornobaj’s car.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/quebec-woman-who-stopped-for-ducks-guilty-in-2-deaths/

Volikakis was on another motorcycle behind her husband when the collision happened. She was driving more slowly and managed to avoid injury.

Czornobaj testified that she turned on her hazard lights and put on the parking brake.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html

During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the driver's door was open

Turtwig

Such a horrible thing for the mother and woman to witness. I'd just take her licence off her and give her community service. Unless she's a sociopath then she's already been punished in the worst way possible.

Most of us witness reckless motor acts everyday, I'd wager some folks reading this, possibly myself included, have done some stupid things but none us of have been punished in the way this woman was. Lesson learned in the cruelest way possible.

Sir Gallagher

Turtwig wrote: »

Such a horrible thing for the mother and woman to witness. I'd just take her licence off her and give her community service. Unless she's a sociopath then she's already been punished in the worst way possible.

Most of us witness reckless motor acts everyday, I'd wager some folks reading this, possibly myself included, have done some stupid things but none us of have been punished in the way this woman was. Lesson learned in the cruelest way possible.

I've seen some sh1t in my day, but i think if i seen some mad thing stop her car in the middle of the m50 to rescue Donald Duck and his pals it would top the lot.

LizzieJones

I'm saddened that it took 4 years to get to court. That doesn't say much for the Canadian justice system.

COYVB

Deserves a long time away for sheer stupidity that destroyed a family. Absolute idiot of the highest degree

Wompa1

Gotta go on the side of; You should always be prepared to stop. Motorway or not. All I do is highway driving now. There's constantly accidents in the fast lane, particularly when people swerve in and out for the HOV lane. I don't know, was he on her a$$ or what? I'd imagine it's tougher on a Motorcycle to stop at short notice but still..how close was he to the car? How fast was he going?

diomed

She parked a car on a highway. She refuses to do jail time.
That woman is living in a world of her own rules.

She was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts of criminal negligence causing death. The jury voted unanimously.

People who say following drivers should be able to stop are living in a world of theory. If a line of vehicle are approaching a stopped car the first car might see the stopped vehicle and change lanes, leaving vehicles following no warning of the obstruction. You can not have one person causing mayhem, and expect everyone else to take evasive action successfully.

Barely There

diomed wrote: »

She parked a car on a highway. She refuses to do jail time.
That woman is living in a world of her own rules.

I don't think it works like that.

Wompa1

diomed wrote: »

She parked a car on a highway. She refuses to do jail time.
That woman is living in a world of her own rules.

She was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts of criminal negligence causing death. The jury voted unanimously.

People who say following drivers should be able to stop are living in a world of theory. If a line of vehicle are approaching a stopped car the first car might see the stopped vehicle and change lanes, leaving vehicles following no warning of the obstruction. You can not have one person causing mayhem, and expect everyone else to take evasive action successfully.

No you cannot, that's true. But ultimately, you need to do your best to protect yourself from the unexpected. When I was taught how to drive, I was told to take every corner like I'm expecting a parked car on the other side. For the Lane switching, if it's switching due to built up traffic you'd see it far off. If the person went into the other lane to overtake, that person should also get penalized...

Henry Ford III

What became of the ducks?

inforfun

feargale wrote: »

Hands up anybody here who has never made a bad judgement while driving. Hands up anybody who is utterly confident of never doing so in future.

Bad judgement is trying to parallel park in a spot that is just too small for your car.
Stopping on the overtaking lane to get some ducklings out of the way is pure and utter stupidity.

20 years ago i almost crashed into some idiot who was standing still on the overtaking lane changing a tire. That was the most scary **** i have ever experienced in 25 years of driving.

This woman should never be allowed of the pavement anymore.

Arthur Beesley

mad muffin wrote: »

Yeah, good luck with fitting that into a thread title. You still haven't suggested a better one.

Thread title is accurate enough to get the gist.

No, it is misleading.

Arthur Beesley

poppyvally wrote: »

Some daft oul hippie gets out of their car in a fast lane to save ducks. Fuk her she cost 2 lives!

I wonder would our own 'old hippy' be stupid enough to do the same...

RoisinDove

mad muffin wrote: »

To do what? Oh that's right. Save ducklings :rolleyes:

What does it matter what she was doing? Whether she was helping ducklings or taking a photo or scratching her arse, she stopped in the overtaking lane of a motorway and two people died as a result.

RoboRat

Well it depends on whether prison is seen to be a consequence and in some form, retribution for an act or whether its to rehabilitate.

I am torn as if it was my wife and child, I would be devastated but I cant see how prison would rehabilitate this woman. What she done was mindless and stupid, but it wasn't malicious or planned.

mad muffin

RoisinDove wrote: »

What does it matter what she was doing? Whether she was helping ducklings or taking a photo or scratching her arse, she stopped in the overtaking lane of a motorway and two people died as a result.

You don't say…

tommythecat

mad muffin wrote: »

To do what? Oh that's right. Save ducklings :rolleyes:

The "do what" is entirely irrelevant.

snaphook

It's the overtaking lane NOT the fast lane!

mad muffin

tommythecat wrote: »

The "do what" is entirely irrelevant.

Oh sweet Lord…

tommythecat

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh sweet Lord…

You said it!

animaal

This woman behaved stupidly. And her stupidity has led to people's deaths. But what are we supposed to punish - a person's actions and intent, or the outcome? Personally, I'd lean more heavily on the intent and act. E.g. I'd give harsher punishment for a stabbing, even where the victim doesn't die.

This woman has been found guilty, which is right and proper. But I wouldn't like to live in a society where an honest mistake, however stupid, is punished with jail time for a significant portion of a life.

Also, I think the motorcyclist is partly responsibility for the crash - or at least would in this country. Regardless of what lane of a motorway I'm in, if I slam on the brakes and get hit from behind, the person behind me is likely to be liable. There's an expectation that you only drive at a speed that you can safely stop if you see an obstacle ahead.

animaal

snaphook wrote: »

It's the overtaking lane NOT the fast lane!

Good God.

This story is about Canada, where the rules are a little different.
Some Canadians would like the Irish/UK-style "passing lane", system, but it's not what's in the law there. E.g., from the Ontario statute:

"154. (1) Where a highway has been divided into clearly marked lanes for traffic,

(a) a vehicle shall be driven as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety;"

Gael23

5 years in jail then lethal injection, only thing for her. Such an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Little CuChulainn

It's a tough one. Personally, I don't believe people should be punished harshly for genuine mistakes or minor failings. I also don't think prison should be used to punish, but to keep dangerous people away from the rest of us. On the other hand, you cannot ignore that her mistake cost two people their lives and their needs to be some accounting for that. I would ban her from driving for life and suspend any prison sentence on the grounds that she not drive a vehicle and engage with probation sevices to help others learn from her mistake in some way. Maybe make an ad or give a talk in drivers education classes. Of course, it all depends on her attitude. If she doesn't display any remorse or accept responsibility I would deem her dangerous and imprison her.

323

mad muffin wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html

A Canadian woman who held her license for three years at the time, stopped in the fast lane, no hazards, door wide open, to save ducklings.

Father and daughter on a motorbike crashed into the back of her car and killed. The mother was on a bike behind them and saw the accident.

Emma Czornobaj was convicted by a jury on Friday ontwo counts of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.

What do the fine folk of AH think? Is life in prison too harsh a sentence?

Personally I don't think it's too harsh for such a mindless act.

Proper order, pity we don't have similar here.

Under our fckued up system she would have been let off to do something like that again, with a few points on her license and a couple of hours community service.

darkpagandeath

Think people are missing a slight point here, By parking in the overtaking lane she made an active choice to protect her own life while doing this. This then put every other motorway users life in danger, She did not pull into the hard shoulder she parked her car in the overtaking lane as not to have to walk over the active motorway lanes. I mean even thinking outside the box here could she not have pulled onto the central reservation as most motorways Usa/Canada don't have barriers like we do there is a lot of grass.