Woman faces life in prison for stopping to save ducklings

Pedro K

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Motorcyclists, due to their speed(compared to scooters/pushbikes), lack of seatbelts and lack of big metal things surrounding them (compared to 4+ wheeled vehicles) are probably the most vulnerable road users. Throw in the speed of a motorway and you're adding risk. Then, if you're (as some of the articles suggest) breaking the speed limit quite significantly....

I cycle and drive...and no way would I put a child on a pushbike nevermind a motorbike. As a cyclist, I go out every time knowing that not only do I have to ensure I don't do anything stupid, I've to rely on no one else doing anything stupid too and hope that my reaction times will be quick enough if they do. The same would apply to a motorcyclist due to their vulnerability on the roads. Given the two of them are dead, it would kind of back up my feelings on this.

I ride a motorbike. I find motorways to be safer actually. Less side roads etc. for cars to just pull out of and all traffic moving in the same direction.

UCDVet

I still don't understand this.....

Did she SLAM on the brakes? Because it sounds like she stopped her car and got out, leaving the door open.

How the hell do you drive into the back of a parked car on the motorway? I mean, sure, it shouldn't be there - but how do you not see it?

Pedro K

UCDVet wrote: »

I still don't understand this.....

Did she SLAM on the brakes? Because it sounds like she stopped her car and got out, leaving the door open.

How the hell do you drive into the back of a parked car on the motorway? I mean, sure, it shouldn't be there - but how do you not see it?

Really?

It would be very easy to not see it until it's too late. You're travelling at ~120km/h and there's a car sat stationary around a bend. Even if there was no bend it would be easy to not notice until it's too late.

There's only one person at fault here. And it's not the mororcyclist or any of the ducks.

UCDVet

Pedro K wrote: »

Really?

It would be very easy to not see it until it's too late. You're travelling at ~120km/h and there's a car sat stationary around a bend. Even if there was no bend it would be easy to not notice until it's too late.

There's only one person at fault here. And it's not the mororcyclist or any of the ducks.

Have you never approached stopped traffic before on a motorway? I sure have.

fasttalkerchat

AngeGal wrote: »

Ideally the role of prison is partly punishment and partly rehabilitation. This crime doesn't need rehabilitation, she'll never be so reckless again. She has no criminal record and has to live with having killed two people. Sufficient punishment would be one year house arrest, driving license suspended for five years.

Why give back the licence at all. I am sick of hearing of people who kill at the wheel or have several drink driving convictions getting successive driving bans. Just take the licence.

Pedro K

I don't remember ever driving along at motorway speeds and coming across a completely stationary car in the driving lanes. And I've driven the length and breadth of this country many times over on two wheels and on four, and I've driven in other countries too.

Yes there's been heavy traffic, and normally there's a tailback of slow moving traffic, but nobody in their right mind expects to see a car stopped dead in a motorway lane when everything else is moving freely.

DoomZ

AndonHandon wrote: »

Safe to assume you don't have a licence.

Full motorbike and car licence for over 20 yes, both clean ;-)

Bruthal

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Nope done plenty of stupid stuff, But stopping voluntarily in the fast lane of a motor way with no hazard lights has ever been one of them.

No, but one of plenty of other stupid things can kill someone also. But not the stupid things you do of course. You obviously pick and choose your stupid stuff carefully.

Bruthal

Pedro K wrote: »

I don't remember ever driving along at motorway speeds and coming across a completely stationary car in the driving lanes. And I've driven the length and breadth of this country many times over on two wheels and on four, and I've driven in other countries too.

Yes there's been heavy traffic, and normally there's a tailback of slow moving traffic, but nobody in their right mind expects to see a car stopped dead in a motorway lane when everything else is moving freely.

If a car broke down on the motorway, and you hit it, who's fault is it then?

shruikan2553

Pedro K wrote: »

I don't remember ever driving along at motorway speeds and coming across a completely stationary car in the driving lanes. And I've driven the length and breadth of this country many times over on two wheels and on four, and I've driven in other countries too.

Yes there's been heavy traffic, and normally there's a tailback of slow moving traffic, but nobody in their right mind expects to see a car stopped dead in a motorway lane when everything else is moving freely.

Nobody expects a lot of things and yet they can happen.

Bruthal

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Nobody expects a lot of things and yet they can happen.

Yes exactly. I never seen a car turn over. Or a truck wheel come off. Or a car coming the wrong way down the motorway.

They all still happen though.

Tails142

In fairness I think the deceased motor cyclists have some blame in this - did they not see a hazard ahead on the motorway and react accordingly? What if it had been a large animal on the motorway, dear, moose or whatever. Obviously the motorist is responsible too as she created the hazard but you should always expect the unexpected and be prepared to stop, that is why bends on motorways are so light, the sight lines are there to provide stopping distance.

seamusk84

Two quick points.

1. Some people asking why a 16 year old pillion was on the bike. When I was 16 I was licensed to drive a scooter in Ireland. So nothing noteworthy about to age of the pillion.

2. Some people saying the bike should have been far enough behind to react. As a motorcyclist you have to understand that your stopping distance is about double that of a car. Less tyre contact to the road makes it harder to slow down. Factor that into motorway speeds.....Almost impossible to react in time to something like this.

Jail time? Yes, just even to make an example of how important it is to not engage in this kind of reckless driving.

Bruthal

Pedro K wrote: »

Really?

It would be very easy to not see it until it's too late. You're travelling at ~120km/h and there's a car sat stationary around a bend. Even if there was no bend it would be easy to not notice until it's too late.

There's only one person at fault here. And it's not the mororcyclist or any of the ducks.

Indeed it is easy to not notice a stopped car.

Because it is easy to assume on motorways that there won't be any unexpected obstacles. And so its easy to not pay due care and attentio which most are guilty of at some time or other.

Again, if the stopped car had been a broken down car, who us at fault then if someone runs into it?

Bruthal

seamusk84 wrote: »

Two quick points.

1. Some people asking why a 16 year old pillion was on the bike. When I was 16 I was licensed to drive a scooter in Ireland. So nothing noteworthy about to age of the pillion.

2. Some people saying the bike should have been far enough behind to react. As a motorcyclist you have to understand that your stopping distance is about double that of a car. Less tyre contact to the road makes it harder to slow down. Factor that into motorway speeds.....Almost impossible to react in time to something like this.

Jail time? Yes, just even to make an example of how important it is to not engage in this kind of reckless driving.

Well then, drive the bike appropriately. If you can't stop in time for hazards, then you are doomed, since a woman stupidly stopping is not the only hazard on motorways.

osarusan

Pedro K wrote: »

There's only one person at fault here. And it's not the mororcyclist or any of the ducks.

Rider of the motorcycle obviously has to share some of the fault.

They were riding so fast that they didn't have time to react to a stationary obstacle on the road - that's a textbook example of dangerous driving.

If it had been a fallen tree or a crashed car, the result would have been the same.

The fact that the obstacle was the result of an extraordinarily stupid decision by the woman who stopped her car doesn't absolve the motorcycle rider of their own responsibility.

Rory28

Been a while since I posted in this thread.

The motorcyclist had no time to react. The car in front of him had to swerve to avoid hitting the stopped car leaving the motorcycle no time to react.

There were links posted to articles about this crash. Situational blindness is the reason it happened. Without hazard lights the other drivers see it and assume its moving along fine until they are plowed into the back of them.

And if the car was broke down instead of simply stopped they have to put on the hazards lights as well. Stupid question.

Diddley Squat

Did the ducklings survive in the end though ............???

Rory28

Diddley Squat wrote: »

Did the ducklings survive in the end though ............???

The funny thing is they were never on the road in the first place. They were walking along side the road. Not even they are stupid enough to walk down a motorway.

Greenmachine

Rory28 wrote: »

The funny thing is they were never on the road in the first place. They were walking along side the road. Not even they are stupid enough to walk down a motorway.

All the more shocking if true. 3 month sentence apparently, maybe she would have got similar in Ireland, if a certain tragic case here is anything to go by.

Bruthal

Rory28 wrote: »

And if the car was broke down instead of simply stopped they have to put on the hazards lights as well. Stupid question.

Stupid question?

The question was if a driver hits a broken down car, who is at fault. It was not asking what should the broken down driver do. People have slammed into pile ups. Hardly invisible, but people's habit of driving far to close to the car in front at motorway speeds means they happen.

They have to put hazards on? No guarantee they will. It doesn't happen automatically.

But the very first thing many drivers do when break down is likely not switch hazards on, but get stressed out as they try to start engine again.

Was the biker far enough behind this car that swerved, to avoid the unexpected? I don't know if he was or not. Maybe you know.

Gael23

Someone made this point but I think the manner she will serve her sentence will ruin her life more than if she just spent 6 weeks in jail