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Soccer Forum Moderation tonight

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    #92
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Rayne Wooney wrote: »
    I've 3 yellows on the soccer forum and they've come from 2 Liverpool fans, coincidental I'm sure...

    Honestly that just sounds like paranoia talking. Do you seriously think that people who show bias based on what northern English football team they may support would be offered modships here? Chances are you probably did something that the charter says you shouldn't have done to get those cards as opposed to a mod using football tribalism to some into it.


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    #93
    Rayne Wooney
    Registered Users Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Rayne Wooney


    P_1 wrote: »
    Honestly that just sounds like paranoia talking. Do you seriously think that people who show bias based on what northern English football team they may support would be offered modships here? Chances are you probably did something that the charter says you shouldn't have done to get those cards as opposed to a mod using football tribalism to some into it.


    I was joking of course... anyway the sample size is too small at the moment to prove anything :pac:


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    #94
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Rayne Wooney wrote: »
    I've 3 yellows on the soccer forum and they've come from 2 Liverpool fans, coincidental I'm sure...

    Yeah my 2 this year are from the same Liverpool fan, Kess. He is fine tbh but I shouldn't have gotten either and one was already dealt with by a mod(non Liverpool fan) until Kess come along and decided to issue a card. This proves our point of Liverpool bias :D


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    #95
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Invertpyramid wrote: »
    The soccer forum should be modded by people who have no interest in soccer. It's really that simple. Otherwise you get bias like what we saw here. It happens constantly.

    Mods are diehard fans of their teams and get riled up when fans of other teams have a go. It's human....but its wrong and is easily avoidable. Having a Liverpool fan modding a United thread is akin to have an atheist mod the Christianity forum. It's asking for trouble.

    Allegiances should be left at the door and they aren't. So the correct thing to do is for people with zero interest in sport to mod. Then, posts get judged on their merit.

    That just wouldn't work at all. A mod of a specific forum needs to have a good knowledge of the subject matter or trolling could go completely over their head. I think it's even more important in sports than any other forum on this site.


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    #96
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    RasTa wrote: »
    Yeah my 2 this year are from the same Liverpool fan, Kess. He is fine tbh but I shouldn't have gotten either and one was already dealt with by a mod until Kess come along and decided to issue a card. This proves our point of Liverpool bias :D

    Be careful there Rssta two infractions is perm ban territory if they decide to use "the muppet rule " on you .


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    #97
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mike getting banned is an example of over moderation because of pettiness. Nothing the mods can do, they have to be consistent and show zero tolerance due to posts like the above.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #98
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,305 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Invertpyramid wrote: »
    Allegiances should be left at the door and they aren't. So the correct thing to do is for people with zero interest in sport to mod. Then, posts get judged on their merit.
    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    That just wouldn't work at all. A mod of a specific forum needs to have a good knowledge of the subject matter or trolling could go completely over their head. I think it's even more important in sports than any other forum on this site.

    Will I Amnt is correct, that suggestion is completely unworkable. Apart from it being preferable for the mod to have a good knowledge of the subject matter, equally important is that they have in interest. Yes, in theory, it would eliminate all accusations of bias if we had a bunch of mods who weren't soccer fans modding the forum but, let's face it, who would want to if they had no interest in the sport? As it is, it's already probably the hardest forum on the site to mod and, despite what some people may assert, the mods there do a bloody good job in the face of relentless trolling, whataboutery, tribal pettiness and people generally being dicks. Why would you want to sign up for that if you hadn't any interest in the subject matter in the first place?


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    #99
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    K-9 wrote: »
    Mike getting banned is an example of over moderation because of pettiness. Nothing the mods can do, they have to be consistent and show zero tolerance due to posts like the above.

    Didn't he call someone a wanker and tell someone else he is on their ignore list, how is that pettiness?

    I've no doubt you would care if he wasn't a Liverpool fan, it's the nature of the form don't fight it.


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    #100
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Zaph wrote: »
    Will I Amnt is correct, that suggestion is completely unworkable. Apart from it being preferable for the mod to have a good knowledge of the subject matter, equally important is that they have in interest. Yes, in theory, it would eliminate all accusations of bias if we had a bunch of mods who weren't soccer fans modding the forum but, let's face it, who would want to if they had no interest in the sport? As it is, it's already probably the hardest forum on the site to mod and, despite what some people may assert, the mods there do a bloody good job in the face of relentless trolling, whataboutery, tribal pettiness and people generally being dicks. Why would you want to sign up for that if you hadn't any interest in the subject matter in the first place?

    This place has never been short of wanna be's I'm sure there wouldbe no shortage of takers. Don't see how you need an indepth knowledge of soccer to mod it either an I depth knowledge of the charter and some common sense should do.


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    #101
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    The Muppet wrote: »

    This place has never been short of wanna be's I'm sure there wouldbe no shortage of takers. Don't see how you need an indepth knowledge of soccer to mod it either an I depth knowledge of the charter and some common sense should do.

    Honestly that would be the worst thing to do to the forum. We've had countless examples over the years of the carnage that can happen when a mod who has limited understanding of the subject matter of a forum is parachuted in. I think that we should avoid doing that with the soccer forum.


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    #102
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,305 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    The Muppet wrote: »
    This place has never been short of wanna be's I'm sure there wouldbe no shortage of takers. Don't see how you need an indepth knowledge of soccer to mod it either an I depth knowledge of the charter and some common sense should do.

    It's just been brought to my attention that you are currently banned from the Soccer forum, so per the Feedback charter I'm afraid you can't contribute any further to this thread:
    Users under a ban from a forum
    Users currently serving a ban from a forum with a duration over 1 month are not allowed to post on feedback threads concerning that forum.


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    #103
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Funny stuff zaph are the powers that be ie distilled media not embarrassed by stupid rules like that in a feedback forum ? I've said what I wanted anyway, good evening to you


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    #104
    OneEightSeven
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭OneEightSeven


    Yeah, that rule does sound pretty stupid. Is there a logic behind it?


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    #105
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Why is Dav starting all the match threads? Not even using crests, predicted line-ups etc....


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    #106
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    RasTa wrote: »
    Why is Dav starting all the match threads? Not even using crests, predicted line-ups etc....

    Testing out that drop down menu on the soccer forum page, nobody used the threads for each group that were created the last time.


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    #107
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    RasTa wrote: »
    Didn't he call someone a wanker and tell someone else he is on their ignore list, how is that pettiness?

    I've no doubt you would care if he wasn't a Liverpool fan, it's the nature of the form don't fight it.

    No arguement about the first, the second a bit harsh, maybe an on thread warning but he should no better. That's the problem with zero tolerance, it removes mod discretion and common sense. Plus I suppose you've posters making sure opposition fans don't get away with an inch. The open access was working great until Suarez ignited the pool vs. United thing, and it seems its existing users is the main problem.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #108
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Invertpyramid wrote: »
    The soccer forum should be modded by people who have no interest in soccer. It's really that simple. Otherwise you get bias like what we saw here. It happens constantly.

    Mods are diehard fans of their teams and get riled up when fans of other teams have a go. It's human....but its wrong and is easily avoidable. Having a Liverpool fan modding a United thread is akin to have an atheist mod the Christianity forum. It's asking for trouble.

    Allegiances should be left at the door and they aren't. So the correct thing to do is for people with zero interest in sport to mod. Then, posts get judged on their merit.

    TBH this excuse has been trotted out since the inception of the soccer forum and in 99.999% of cases was pure and utter tripe.

    Whilst I have disagreements with mods on the soccer forum and have been infracted I am mature enough to realise why it happened and it was because I crossed the line and in one case I knew what I was doing before I did it.

    If any mod acted in that way and it was provable they would be removed by the admins. People who think this way tend to be in denial that they were in the wrong in the first place.
    The Muppet wrote: »
    The man speaks sense not that anyone will listen. In the past Soccer has had a certain bias against certain posters due to the make up of moderation team .

    I don't know all of the current mods or their allegiance but From my time posting on soccer I do recognise some as being anything but unbiased supporters of a certain team who's supporters have always been in the majority on the mod team.

    The above is an excellent suggestion IMO.

    Care to show us where this bias against certain posters exists. I perm banned you in the past (2004) because of your behaviour and when you were given a 2nd chance by the newer mods you got banned again.

    All that tells me is that they and I obviously made the correct decision with the decisions we made that were seven years apart.

    Instead of looking at their own behaviour the instant reaction of some is that they are only being sanctioned because they support X team and that bloody mod supports Y team.


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    #109
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Testing out that drop down menu on the soccer forum page, nobody used the threads for each group that were created the last time.

    What's that then? Where can one view this drop down menu
    K-9 wrote: »
    No arguement about the first, the second a bit harsh, maybe an on thread warning but he should no better. That's the problem with zero tolerance, it removes mod discretion and common sense. Plus I suppose you've posters making sure opposition fans don't get away with an inch. The open access was working great until Suarez ignited the pool vs. United thing, and it seems its existing users is the main problem.

    So you agree it was his own fault that he got banned? I'm pretty sure it was a heat of the moment decision that he now regrets


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    #110
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,305 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    OneEightSeven wrote: »
    Yeah, that rule does sound pretty stupid. Is there a logic behind it?

    Basically if someone misbehaves to the extent that they get themselves a long ban from a forum, then they essentially lose the right to have an opinion on the forum for the duration of the ban. Iirc it was implemented because Feedback was getting a lot of threads from banned posters with axes to grind, rather than offering proper feedback.


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    #111
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    K-9 wrote: »
    No arguement about the first, the second a bit harsh, maybe an on thread warning but he should no better. That's the problem with zero tolerance, it removes mod discretion and common sense. Plus I suppose you've posters making sure opposition fans don't get away with an inch. The open access was working great until Suarez ignited the pool vs. United thing, and it seems its existing users is the main problem.

    Telling someone you have them on ignore is a yellow every time TBF.


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    #112
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    RasTa wrote: »
    What's that then? Where can one view this drop down menu

    The main page of the soccer forum. It has quick links to all the match threads etc.


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    #113
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,481 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    gandalf wrote: »

    Instead of looking at their own behaviour the instant reaction of some is that they are only being sanctioned because they support X team and that bloody mod supports Y team.

    Spot on


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    #114
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    The main page of the soccer forum. It has quick links to all the match threads etc.

    The big widget thing that was there at the start of the WC?

    Guess once you close it you can't bring it back


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    #115
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    RasTa wrote: »
    The big widget thing that was there at the start of the WC?

    Guess once you close it you can't bring it back

    Yeah that, it's always there in a drop down menu on the touch site.


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    #116
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Telling someone you have them on ignore is a yellow every time TBF.

    I thought I'd seen an on thread reminder to posters a few months back, could be wrong. A prisoner giving out about the harsh laws he got perma banned for is a bit annoying, rare you'd get genuine objective feedback, regardless of team support! Though SOTS would be great craic!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #117
    bennyl10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    With regards to the Suarez/Lfc thread modding,it did seem very club biased..
    Comments were made in a Suarez thread, cards were given(rightly I'm not debating the cards in the slightest).Comment made in the United thread saying the exact same,cards were given, again rightly.

    The same night, the same comments (calling a player/manager/team an insult) were,made in the Liverpool thread and just an across thread Warning was issued..

    If cards are being given in one, surely they should be given completely across the board?


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    #118
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Testing out that drop down menu on the soccer forum page, nobody used the threads for each group that were created the last time.

    It's a good idea but perhaps it might be best to wait until more details about the match (lineups, weather, odds, etc) become available before they go live. I presume they can be edited once that information becomes available but they don't exactly paint the widget in the best of colours when it's used prematurely.


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    #119
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,734 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    So is this just a general issues related to the soccer forum thread now or what?

    At first it was specifically about the closure of the Suarez is done thread? but that is a good few days back now and there is a Suarez thread for all such discussion. We already had another feedback thread about the opening up of the forum for the world cup etc and we had the forum feedback only a month or so ago. So not trying to derail this or anything but um to keep the train metaphor going where is this train going?

    Also (of course he would say this, defend his own and all that but) I really think the talk of bias due to who a mod supports is total nonsense and a bit of a cop out. I've had posters for instance (happened a few times recently via pm after mod action) telling me that I wouldnt be warning them / infracting them whatever if they werent posting things about Liverpool / Utd or if I didnt support Liverpool / Utd when the fact is I dont support either of those teams but it wouldnt make any difference if I did as I'd still act the same way as I know the other mods do but of course I know some people have set opinions about some mods and I dont expect you to change them


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    #120
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Yeah the Liverpool thread is a strange place but it's their thread. Seems odd they can act differently than the rest of the form.


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    #121
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    I got a straight red in the Suarez thread for trying to explain why the ban impacted on Liverpool fans. There is no possible way you can mention the Suarez ban and not mention Liverpool. Yet the warning was given no Liverpool talk, and bang, straight red, early shower.


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