Renault Zoe, one year on.

reboot

I thought people interested in comparing the available EV market might benefit from my experiences, good and bad,living with and driving the top of the range Zoe for the last year.
I appreciate a lot of what I say may not apply South of the Border,I can only speak to the deal in the North. This is how it goes.

Renault supplied me with a free home charger, worth 1500 pounds,and fitted of charge.
There is zero road tax.
5000 pounds off the purchase price,making the basic model around that of a Clio.(I only lease the car over 3 years)
Zoe has a practical range of 100 miles,dropping to around 80 miles in Winter.
0 to 30 in 4 secs,I have seen quoted,with a top speed of 85mph.
AC charging seems very fast,I can do a quick shop and coffee,taking around 40 mins and full charge again, having had maybe 50 miles to start with.
It can feel weird driving slightly down hill at 50mph and watching the charging display actually indicating a hefty charge current going into the battery,sometimes ending up with maybe 5 miles more than I started with when I reach my destination.
The home charger is single phase,(obviously ) 32 Amp,I left the cable long enough to charge the car outside in Summer and in the garage in Winter.The 22kw street SC chargers (Mostly ebg supplied up here) will take only half the time to charge Zoe when compared with the Leaf.
On the down side there have been charging issues at some CPs which the manufactures don't seem to be able to resolve with Renault,and fault repair at CPs can take weeks,affecting all EVs . If people want to debate the merits of EV and ICE, I'm not interested,time to move on.

Thargor

How much did the whole setup cost you?

reboot

Thargor wrote: »

How much did the whole setup cost you?

Can,t off the top of my head quote you accurate figures,it was last May I did the deal.Roughly with the Gov grant ,it brings the basic model,which is not very basic, and worth consideration,down to about £1400,less than half that of a Leaf Afaik?
I forgot to mention Power NI have provided economy 7 at 8p/KwHr between 1am and 9am.This means you can run the house on half price electric ,washing m/c, immersion heater ,etc, and the car ,any EV .
The battery hire concerns don,t worry me its part of the car lease and everything is covered 24/7.In 2 years,I can keep it, or hand the whole thing back,trade up,or move on.
I don,t know much about the Leaf,and may never do, but with 6000 miles of free electricity,the car is a dream to have.I would do the whole thing again in a heartbeat.
PS I don,t work for Renault and am not a favourite with the Dealership.

Seamus1964

One difference, in South here is no zero road tax, I'm not completely sure but cost around 100 euros road tax for EV

reboot

Seamus1964 wrote: »

One difference, in South here is no zero road tax, I'm not completely sure but cost around 100 euros road tax for EV

Thanks I know that,and the whole Ecar scheme does not have limited funds,one point in favour of smaller charger points in the street.Single phase 32Amp (fitted to almost any old lamp post?), I would say would be sufficient for a Zoe,at a cost of say £1000,whereas Leaf owners constantly asking for more and more rapid chargers,(120Amp DC),at what, £50,000,a fifty to one ratio.
Recently one of our public reps reported in the Irish News, called for the scheme,to be scrapped.UTV spending a whole 9 secs on the subject of 30 charge points never yet used in the North, another thread coming soon perhaps on the subject of Iced? Hopefully "Head of joining up the dots North and South" will be appointed soon,we could be running out of time,and money.

Unfortunately when the E.U funded fast chargers are installed there are 0 plans for more, not without funding.

I'm interested to read OP that you can get 80 winter miles and 100 milder miles ? this is more than what the Germans appear to get.

Can you achieve this at reasonable speed ?

Zoe has great charging speeds from the standard 22kw charge points but there are very few fast a/c chargers and unlikely to be. Even the new fast charger in Carlow has 0 44kw a/c.

And I've learned from the FB page that no more than 1 fast charger can be located in any one location due to sub station limitations. I don;t know how true this is ?

We already see queues, and people waiting up to an hour for a 100% charge when the fast chargers are designed to dump 0-80% in 30 mins.

People using the chargers who live down the road for free electricity are holding up valuable resources and this is why I want to see charging fees introduced.

I would consider fast charging a privilege that I'd be more than willing to pay for a good quality of service at a reasonable cost.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately when the E.U funded fast chargers are installed there are 0 plans for more, not without funding.

I'm interested to read OP that you can get 80 winter miles and 100 milder miles ? this is more than what the Germans appear to get.

Can you achieve this at reasonable speed ?

Zoe has great charging speeds from the standard 22kw charge points but there are very few fast a/c chargers and unlikely to be. Even the new fast charger in Carlow has 0 44kw a/c.

And I've learned from the FB page that no more than 1 fast charger can be located in any one location due to sub station limitations. I don;t know how true this is ?

We already see queues, and people waiting up to an hour for a 100% charge when the fast chargers are designed to dump 0-80% in 30 mins.

People using the chargers who live down the road for free electricity are holding up valuable resources and this is why I want to see charging fees introduced.

I would consider fast charging a privilege that I'd be more than willing to pay for a good quality of service at a reasonable cost.

Agreed on paying for the service,sooner the better, although in England the price has gone so high that some folk have posted that its cheaper to put petrol in their Hybrid?
Afaik the Zoe,being an AC device does not benefit from a fast charge at our rapid chargers,although as of last week this may have changed with the new CPs in Belfast.Personally I regret this and think its a great push to suit the Leaf lobby,which as has been pointed out takes twice as long to charge from an AC point,even at home,but I don't want to get into car wars.

reboot

reboot wrote: »

in England the price has gone so high that some folk have posted that its cheaper to put petrol in their Hybrid?

I heard some companies were looking to charge a lot, can;t rem exactly how much though.

If they charged 5 euro's for a 30 min fast charge I'd have no problems with this, I'm an ev enthusiast but I seem to be one of the few that understand free charging is unsustainable.

If a full charge on day rate costs 4 euro's then 5 euro's for around 60 miles range imo isn't that bad, over 500 miles it works out around 41 euro's. Still cheaper than petrol/diesel. Fast charging is supposed to be occasional and not daily. And it's a privilege.

There needs to be a much greater push on work place charging from a 13 amp outlet, doesn't have to be dedicated evse. You can use the granny cable, the leaf draws 10 amps from that. It would greatly reduce the need for public fast charging. And only those who need to charge should be allowed plug in at work, ie. longer distance drivers, apartment owners etc.

reboot wrote: »

Afaik the Zoe,being an AC device does not benefit from a fast charge at our rapid chargers,although as of last week this may have changed with the new CPs in Belfast.Personally I regret this and think its a great push to suit the Leaf lobby,which as has been pointed out takes twice as long to charge from an AC point,even at home,but I don't want to get into car wars.

Correct, very few fast ac chargers.

The leaf takes 7 hrs from 0% to charge and the Mk 1.5 with 6.6 kw charger about 4 hrs.

kdouglas

I fully agree fees for charging will be necessary (once the chargers are reliable enough), but 5 euros for a fast charge would be an absolute maximum for me, ideally less.

On a longer journey, paying 5 euro per charge and the added journey time to stop and charge, I'd rather just pay the cost of driving the ICE car instead and save the time.

I think on a very long journey I'd just take the Prius.

Queuing at fast chargers doesn't appeal to me especially when some inconsiderate people look for an up to 100 % charge over possibly an hour when the chargers were designed to charge at full power for a max of 30 mins, above 80% it just takes too long.

They need multiple fast chargers in one location.

At the end of the day the ev would still do 95% + of my driving.

Even if I had no 2nd car I'm sure I wouldn't find it hard to get a loan of an ice and I'm sure there would be plenty willing to try out an ev.

Seamus1964

Stupid question...but always wanted to ask...
Why Prius ?
By doing average 55 MPG ( please correct me if I'm wrong ) I would better choose Audi A4 /A6 2.0 TDi or any another small diesel car over mixed EV- liquid fuel hybrid motor. Less hassle. Long lasting engines . Same fuel consumption - might be even better (diesel is cheaper tho )

Mh?

Seamus1964

Seamus1964 wrote: »

Stupid question...but always wanted to ask...
Why Prius ?

Mh?

I already own a Prius, we need 2 cars and we own a 2000 CRV. So if I got an ev the crv would be the first to go. It consumes twice the fuel of the prius, sometimes more.

The prius also gets me an average of between 60-64 mpg. +it's automatic. And the most reliable car I've ever owned.

reboot

Seamus1964 wrote: »

Stupid question...but always wanted to ask...
Why Prius ?
By doing average 55 MPG ( please correct me if I'm wrong ) I would better choose Audi A4 /A6 2.0 TDi or any another small diesel car over mixed EV- liquid fuel hybrid motor. Less hassle. Long lasting engines . Same fuel consumption - might be even better (diesel is cheaper tho )

Mh?

I also have an ICE car,but perhaps Hybrid could be a separate topic on another thread,and as I keep pointing out ,discussion on ICE / EV could go on forever and be very boring.Stick to pure electric on one thread? Its complicated enough for folk.

Dexter1979

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct, very few fast ac chargers.

The leaf takes 7 hrs from 0% to charge and the Mk 1.5 with 6.6 kw charger about 4 hrs.

The AC fast chargers you are referring to are the 43kW, 3 phase ones I presume?

The good thing about the Zoe charger is that a lot (going to say most) slow charge points in Ireland are 22kW, three phase ones. These will charge a Zoe to 80% in about an hour. A Leaf with 6.6kW charger will still take 4 hours to reach the same. This makes the Zoe hugely practical. That charger is far superior than anything currently on an EV bar the Tesla.

The example the OP used would apply to me. Go to Tesco here in Mallow, plug in, do shopping and the car will be near enough fully charged when I come back. And you'll be able to do this and nearly any charging point in the country! Not just the about 50 fast charge points the Leaf can use.

The battery rental would potentially deter me but, as you calculated in a different thread, it does make sense for some drivers. If, like the OP, I could lease the whole car then it is a contender. I may just do that whenever it comes out. I think Renault have good 3 year plans. Drive it for 3 years and hand it back or trade up to the next generation. Have a feeling the next gen Zoe will have a huge range.

Thank you, Reboot, for sharing the experience. I'm looking forward to a test drive whenever we are going to see it here in the republic.

It seems that many slow chargers are not capable of more than 7 kw or so. And not 22 kw I once thought.

The ESB still refuse to put the charger kw power on the charge point map.

Dexter1979

Yeah I may be wrong with my praise

The charger on the Zoe is still better all around than the Leaf. This is even more so if you take it abroad. Many more AC chargers than DC chargers. I was looking at driving an EV to my parents in Holland going through France. Would be a huge pain with a Leaf, lot less in a Zoe.

There may be a lot more fast chargers but if they're not 44 kw then it would be a pain.

There are ac chargers now that are very compact @ 20 kw that could easily be installed in a leaf, they connect via the CHADeMo cable.

Ac is always good but the future is Dc @ 130 kw and more. You wouldn't be able to fit that in a car.

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Yeah I may be wrong with my praise

The charger on the Zoe is still better all around than the Leaf. This is even more so if you take it abroad. Many more AC chargers than DC chargers. I was looking at driving an EV to my parents in Holland going through France. Would be a huge pain with a Leaf, lot less in a Zoe.

Zoe also has great Air Con ,from the heat pump/heater,supplying 3kw but only drawing 1KW

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

The AC fast chargers you are referring to are the 43kW, 3 phase ones I presume?

The good thing about the Zoe charger is that a lot (going to say most) slow charge points in Ireland are 22kW, three phase ones. These will charge a Zoe to 80% in about an hour. A Leaf with 6.6kW charger will still take 4 hours to reach the same. This makes the Zoe hugely practical. That charger is far superior than anything currently on an EV bar the Tesla.

The example the OP used would apply to me. Go to Tesco here in Mallow, plug in, do shopping and the car will be near enough fully charged when I come back. And you'll be able to do this and nearly any charging point in the country! Not just the about 50 fast charge points the Leaf can use.

The battery rental would potentially deter me but, as you calculated in a different thread, it does make sense for some drivers. If, like the OP, I could lease the whole car then it is a contender. I may just do that whenever it comes out. I think Renault have good 3 year plans. Drive it for 3 years and hand it back or trade up to the next generation. Have a feeling the next gen Zoe will have a huge range.

Thank you, Reboot, for sharing the experience. I'm looking forward to a test drive whenever we are going to see it here in the republic.

Your welcome Dexter,I note that Ecar/Carra are starting to replace the Rapid chargers with one that has three cables so that cars "Like the Zoe,can fast charge?" What part of "The Zoe doesn't need a rapid charge" don't they get! save your money or admit you have to keep upping the DC for the Leafy lobby.
I mentioned the lack of Zoe down south to the dealer in Crossgar ,Bells, he said he thought it was available through the Renault dealership in Dundalk?

Dexter1979

reboot wrote: »

What part of "The Zoe doesn't need a rapid charge" don't they get!

On longer journeys you do but in Ireland most rapid chargers along the motorway do 43kW AC as well. Which is the Zoe's equivalent of a rapid charge.

When I know the prices and I am getting my next car the Zoe is a contender. Currently leaning towards a used Leaf from the UK. Most my driving is local enough. 95% of charging will be overnight at home. The DC infrastructure is good enough to be able to drive where I want to go. Zoe would be able to do this as well but a used Leaf would work out cheaper.

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

On longer journeys you do but in Ireland most rapid chargers along the motorway do 43kW AC as well. Which is the Zoe's equivalent of a rapid charge.

When I know the prices and I am getting my next car the Zoe is a contender. Currently leaning towards a used Leaf from the UK. Most my driving is local enough. 95% of charging will be overnight at home. The DC infrastructure is good enough to be able to drive where I want to go. Zoe would be able to do this as well but a used Leaf would work out cheaper.

As I posted earlier,the Economy 7 tariff works out at 8p/KWh,about half the daily rate,and I just lease,hand it back in 3 years.Around the price of a Clio.

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

On longer journeys you do but in Ireland most rapid chargers along the motorway do 43kW AC as well. Which is the Zoe's equivalent of a rapid charge.

When I know the prices and I am getting my next car the Zoe is a contender. Currently leaning towards a used Leaf from the UK. Most my driving is local enough. 95% of charging will be overnight at home. The DC infrastructure is good enough to be able to drive where I want to go. Zoe would be able to do this as well but a used Leaf would work out cheaper.

Can't exactly remember details one year on ,but the horses mouth would be Gregory in the dealership at sales@bellscrossgar.com.Or as I posted earlier the EV may be available out of Dundalk? I don't work in the car business,thank God,maybe he has an EV?

reboot

reboot wrote: »

I thought people interested in comparing the available EV market might benefit from my experiences, good and bad,living with and driving the top of the range Zoe for the last year.
I appreciate a lot of what I say may not apply South of the Border,I can only speak to the deal in the North. This is how it goes.

Renault supplied me with a free home charger, worth 1500 pounds,and fitted of charge.
There is zero road tax.
5000 pounds off the purchase price,making the basic model around that of a Clio.(I only lease the car over 3 years)
Zoe has a practical range of 100 miles,dropping to around 80 miles in Winter.
0 to 30 in 4 secs,I have seen quoted,with a top speed of 85mph.
AC charging seems very fast,I can do a quick shop and coffee,taking around 40 mins and full charge again, having had maybe 50 miles to start with.
It can feel weird driving slightly down hill at 50mph and watching the charging display actually indicating a hefty charge current going into the battery,sometimes ending up with maybe 5 miles more than I started with when I reach my destination.
The home charger is single phase,(obviously ) 32 Amp,I left the cable long enough to charge the car outside in Summer and in the garage in Winter.The 22kw street SC chargers (Mostly ebg supplied up here) will take only half the time to charge Zoe when compared with the Leaf.
On the down side there have been charging issues at some CPs which the manufactures don't seem to be able to resolve with Renault,and fault repair at CPs can take weeks,affecting all EVs . If people want to debate the merits of EV and ICE, I'm not interested,time to move on.

James May on BBC R4 NOW on BMW EV

Anyone got link so I can listen when I get home ?

Satriale

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048n3fg

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Zoe has great charging speeds from the standard 22kw charge points but there are very few fast a/c chargers and unlikely to be. Even the new fast charger in Carlow has 0 44kw a/c.

And I.

I should correct this statement, I was mixing up my chargers.

There are a lot of fast ac chargers, but very few CCS chargers for the I3 and e golf.

The carlow fast charger does indeed have fast ac also.

Dexter1979

Deleted User wrote: »

The carlow fast charger does indeed have fast ac also.

Most fast charge location have fast AC as well. Exceptions are the FCP's at Nissan Dealers. I wonder is Renault going to install 22kW points at Renault dealers like they did in France? In fairness, the SCP network in this country is sufficient for Zoe. I think most SCP's in NI are 22kW and I expect most in the Republic to be the same.

Still debating the pros and cons of Zoe vs Leaf but to be honest the Zoe is winning. I will be doing a test drive with both cars next week. That will make up my mind I think.

I wasn't happy with the interior of the Zoe is to bright for my liking.

There is reflection in the windscreen from the dash. The darker interior looks a lot better but still reflects in the windscreen.

I did not like the cheap nasty plastics.

I really liked the touch screen and while I didn't have much time to play with it I think it could be light years ahead of BMW or Audi system of buttons and a knob!

The steering is very light and is much better in the prius.

They're is a good surge of power but it doesn't last long but it had only 90 hp.

It's far better than Any engine you'll ever find in a car of this size.

Best thing is the charger.

Battery rental would be an excellent idea if you clock up over 15k miles a year and fast charge every day. If you intend to keep this car then you'll be able to replace the battery you don't have the option to replace the Leaf battery and likely will not in Ireland add this is purely a Nissan Ireland decision not to allow leading the battery.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't happy with the interior of the Zoe is to bright for my liking.

There is reflection in the windscreen from the dash. The darker interior looks a lot better but still reflects in the windscreen.

I did not like the cheap nasty plastics.

I really liked the touch screen and while I didn't have much time to play with it I think it could be light years ahead of BMW or Audi system of buttons and a knob!

The steering is very light and is much better in the prius.

They're is a good surge of power but it doesn't last long but it had only 90 hp.

It's far better than Any engine you'll ever find in a car of this size.

Best thing is the charger.

Battery rental would be an excellent idea if you clock up over 15k miles a year and fast charge every day. If you intend to keep this car then you'll be able to replace the battery you don't have the option to replace the Leaf battery and likely will not in Ireland add this is purely a Nissan Ireland decision not to allow leading the battery.

Agree on the reflection problem,much talked about at myrenaultzoe.com.
I don't mind the plastics,nothing has broken off into its second year,and I suppose we are looking at all round new lightweight materials, I even unclipped the rear of the back seat ,it was very heavy,seat belt anchors I suppose,lots of room in the boot.Think the battery rental at £70 per year may be for up to 7K miles only? Think battery is guaranteed for life.
Touch screen does more than I ever need,voice recognition ,bluetooth finds your phone,reversing camera,colour.Tom Tom R Link,Internet and of course Jacuzzi .But best thing is keyless entry,don't need to know where your key is as long as its close.
Up North the electric is free in the street,and I thank Ecar for for 7k miles of it,why charge at home?Better to use the economy 7 for immersion and washing machine at half price before nine am.

Dexter1979

I would do the same if I got a Zoe. I have 2 charge points within a 2 mile radius. Think 1 is 22kW. This is next to a supermarket and close to town centre. Park, plug in, shop, go home fully charged. Leaf with 6.6kW charger would take 4 times longer. And no real point with a 3.3kW charger.

Test drive with Zoe and Leaf booked. Can't wait.

Think polarised sunglasses help with the windscreen reflection.

Yes the polarised sunglasses are terrific.

You'll like the experience particularly the extra punch of the Leaf.

The yanks compare the Leaf to a V6 taking off.