Luis Suarez - Mod Note Post #1, #585 and #602

Agueroooo

MagicIRL wrote: »

Gav has created a monster.

We'll let him feed and water it.

K-9

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

sure cantona giggs and keane were all worse than saint luis

I do think Cantona can be comparable as its doing something everybody thinks is mad! I don't see the Keane and in particular Giggs comparisons in this one though.

Will I Amnt

niallo27 wrote: »

He is a liverpool player. What do you expect. He has nothing to do with utd but from 5 utd posters we have a total of 187 posts in half a day about him.

Don't play the innocent on this niallo, you know how these things play out. You were all over the Ryan Giggs retiring thread along with your buddies getting the digs in. He had nothing to do with Liverpool...
Don't be a hypocrite.

whiskeyman

kryogen wrote: »

Let me try this to keep in tone with the Liverpool users posts, just taking the opposite angle naturally

A disgrace to the game and should never be allowed step foot on the pitch again, he doesn't care about football or winning only about hurting others

Quite the opposite IMO. The guys loves the game, and boy does he love scoring.
The look of excitement and joy on his face the moment he realises the ball is about to hit the back of the net is unreal... he's like a schoolkid who loves the game.
I see that in him and he makes me love the game even more, as I share his passion for the game.

However, there's clearly something wrong with him since he's now had 3 biting incidences.
Kicking and lashing out is one thing... biting is a a difference level IMO

I'm a Sheffield Wed fan, and a football fan foremost, but I do think he should be banned for life, as much as I admire his amazing football skill.
Not learning first time around is somewhat excusable... but a 2nd and 3rd time?
I put partial blame on teh authorities for not banning him harder / getting him help / forcing him to see help during the first and second times.

Realistically, I can't see it happening though and a 2 yr international ban at max will happen.

Pawwed Rig

I'm not sure he can help himself. Something just seems to click in his head and the chompers come out. Really strange behaviour atogether. I do not think FIFA will take it as seriously as the Premier League did.

His victim mentality is being constantly reinforced by those around him but everything he has done was him alone.

kryogen

Agueroooo wrote: »

Emmm but he is not a dog.

Agueroooo its a rare enough thing I agree with you I think, but this I must admit is something we have the same opinion on. He is not a dog, so why would someone expect or hold him to the same standards as a dog and what would happen if a dog did something.

Whether or not a dog would be put down for it has no relevance whatsoever to Suarez

weisses

cournioni wrote: »

If he was a dog, he would be put down long before now.

Would Cesar millan be an option for the fella ??

Reekwind

Genuine question: Can FIFA actually ban Suarez from all football (ie including domestic leagues) or would a punishment be limited to international games?

NORTH1

I blame Uruguay, they are obviously not feeding him. ........

glued

Knex. wrote: »

Continuing from other thread...



I suppose Cantona, being the good vigilante that he was, had Simmons criminal file on hand and was doing the World a favour, really.

They're both inexcusably mental. Unstable. And brilliant. And because of the latter, they make hypocrites out of us all.

If either were half the player, 90% of both fanbases would have wanted them shipped off home and never associated with the Club again. And the Clubs would do it too.

You've missed the point completely.

DARK-KNIGHT

niallo27 wrote: »

That's fair enough but you don't feel the need to tell every third post how bad he is. Hardly any Liverpool fans are condoning what he did, it's just a lot of people are carrying on like he killed someone. We know he deserves a lengthy ban.

hardly any? so exactly how many are you talking about?

Chucky the tree

RasTa wrote: »

This sounds like your own opinion, I'm looking to hear that of Uruguayan's like below.

Try a Uruguayan forum then I suppose.

ben.schlomo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Some people might think it unfair to ban him from club football along with the international team but there is the chance that FIFA might just say they need to protect the rest of the players on the pitch from a guy who clearly has mental issues and shows no sign of learning from his mistakes.

Here's hoping anyway.

Wont somebody please think of the children.

TimeToShine

Reekwind wrote: »

Genuine question: Can FIFA actually ban Suarez from all football (ie including domestic leagues) or would a punishment be limited to international games?

Yes their jurisdiction covers domestic leagues if required.

Crash Bang Wall

Leftist wrote: »

he likes to play the victim. Don't think he's retarded, but incidents like his club excusing him even after he was found guilty of racial abuse, have only galvanised his victim mentality.

8 month ban from all comps imo.

I would agree with an international ban.....24 months, ok

But if Liverpool have given him the help he needs (presuming this is an anger management type issue), then why should they be punished?

As a LFC fan I think he should be sold this sumer and let someone else deal with the issues. I would imagine BR and the rest of the LFC staff have done over and above what is required to help what is effectively a member of staff.

Also, re the racial abuse, its been done over and over again. He was found guilty under a flawed system. Id imagine in a court of law it would have been thrown out

A world class talent, but a bit (lot) crazy

Godge

niallo27 wrote: »

That's fair enough but you don't feel the need to tell every third post how bad he is. Hardly any Liverpool fans are condoning what he did, it's just a lot of people are carrying on like he killed someone. We know he deserves a lengthy ban.

You seem to be the only one counting up how many Liverpool or Utd. fans are commenting on this. (I am neither by the way).

As a Liverpool fan, I am sure you want your club to uphold the highest standards in the way that it treats its employees. I am sure you will agree therefore that Liverpool should put the health and safety of its employees and those on its premises as its highest priority. Consequently, I am also sure that you will agree that Liverpool should keep Suarez on the sidelines until he has had the necessary counselling and any medical treatment to ensure that there is no possibility of a repeat offence. If that takes six months, so be it.

Agreed?

Godge

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

I would agree with an international ban.....24 months, ok

But if Liverpool have given him the help he needs (presuming this is an anger management type issue), then why should they be punished?

As a LFC fan I think he should be sold this sumer and let someone else deal with the issues. I would imagine BR and the rest of the LFC staff have done over and above what is required to help a member of staff.

A world class talent, but a bit (lot) crazy

Eh, if they did, it obviously didn't work.

greendom

NORTH1 wrote: »

I blame Uruguay, they are obviously not feeding him. ........

Obviously doesn't like Brazilian food - prefers Italian

K-9

kryogen wrote: »

Luke, its a rare enough thing I agree with you I think, but this I must admit is something we have the same opinion on. He is not a dog, so why would someone expect or hold him to the same standards as a dog and what would happen if a dog did something.

Whether or not a dog would be put down for it has no relevance whatsoever to Suarez

I blame the owners myself.

cournioni

Mr Alan wrote: »

Thanks for that real solid contribution :pac:

It is the truth though. How many more chances is he to get? It's clear that 9 and 10 match bans are not enough to keep him from doing it again.

His immediate reaction was to try and cover it up again... Does he have to be forced to apologise again for another disgusting act?

Will I Amnt

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Wont somebody please think of the children.

Well that is how society usually works. You keep the dangerous people away from the rest. That's what institutions and prisons are for...

jester77

ArielAtom wrote: »

Why oh why do UTD fans feel the need to post when all they are doing is really hoping he gets a two year ban from all football.

Over the years they have had their fare share of controversy. Keane, trying to end a player's career, Cantona, attacking a spectator, Ferdinand, dodiging a drug test to avoid a longer ban.

We all have had nut jobs at our clubs, look at mine Joey Barton FFS!!!!!

This is a little different. Keane and Cantona had moments of sheer madness, however Suarez is repeatedly having moments of madness. You could excuse the first time, maybe even the second time but not the third time. And what also makes these different is that both Keane and Cantona were seriously provoked to their tipping point and they went over the edge. With Suarez, he was no more provoked than any other player in those situations, it took very little for him to lose it. And that says to me that he has major problems that need to be dealt with and I don't mean just handing out a ban.

Chucky the tree

Godge wrote: »

Eh, if they did, it obviously didn't work.

It obviously did with Liverpool. Maybe it'ss something he needs constant help with? He's been away from Liverpool at least a month now and it's possible he hasn't been getting the same level of help that allowed him have a trouble free season with Liverpool.

Mr. Guappa

Knex. wrote: »

If either were half the player, 90% of both fanbases would have wanted them shipped off home and never associated with the Club again. And the Clubs would do it too.

This is very true. If performances on the pitch are of a high standard then most fans/clubs will forget/ignore many outrageous transgressions. Winning is all that matters to most fans, the character of the players is not even a secondary concern.

Leftist

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

I would agree with an international ban.....24 months, ok

But if Liverpool have given him the help he needs (presuming this is an anger management type issue), then why should they be punished?

As a LFC fan I think he should be sold this sumer and let someone else deal with the issues. I would imagine BR and the rest of the LFC staff have done over and above what is required to help a member of staff.

A world class talent, but a bit (lot) crazy

has there been exclusively club/country bans for this level of violent misconduct or gross negligence?

Cantona, Mutu & Ferdinand's Drug Ban etc. didn't these bans cover all football? too bad for liverpool, but they've excused his behavior too often.

ThunbergsAreGo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10924522/Luis-Suarez-bite-row-World-Cup-fans-in-Uruguay-react-to-biting-incident.html

Uruguay fans reaction (small sample)

greendom

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It obviously did with Liverpool. Maybe it'ss something he needs constant help with? He's been away from Liverpool at least a month now and it's possible he hasn't been getting the same level of help that allowed him have a trouble free season with Liverpool.

First bite was in 2010, 2nd in 2013, 3rd in 2014...

sounds as if he's getting worse !

v3ttel

Oddly enough, as a United fan, the person I feel most sorry for in this whole scenario is Brendan Rogers.

I'd imagine he felt like banging his head off a brick wall when he's seen the latest bite and the reaction to it. He has one genuinely top level player who has let him down again and who is surely going to be banned for a lengthy period of time.

Maximum ban of 24 games or two years. Surely for the third offense, the punishment will be close to the maximum. The guy genuinely needs help.

Penny Tration

There's something wrong with someone who repeatedly viciously assaults another person. And make no mistake, biting somebody like that is a vicious assault.

I don't think giving him a 24 month ban or any kind of ban is enough.

If he wants to play, he should be banned until he undergoes psychiatric analysis, and if found to be mentally ill, treatment until he is sufficiently recovered to play.

He can't be allowed to keep endangering those he plays against.

Edit: I'm neither a United or Liverpool fan!

ThunbergsAreGo

jester77 wrote: »

This is a little different. Keane and Cantona had moments of sheer madness, however Suarez is repeatedly having moments of madness. You could excuse the first time, maybe even the second time but not the third time. And what also makes these different is that both Keane and Cantona were seriously provoked to their tipping point and they went over the edge. With Suarez, he was no more provoked than any other player in those situations, it took very little for him to lose it. And that says to me that he has major problems that need to be dealt with and I don't mean just handing out a ban.

Not condoning Suarez but in addition to Keane/Cantonas big incidents both (Cantona especially) were more than fond of a stamp

mike65

This is being written while not knowing the extent of the action FIFA might take, there is legislative scope for a total football ban, even if that might seem unlikely.

One has to consider the positions of all the players (the er stakeholders!), the club as represented primarily by John W henry and Tom Werner, the club CEO Ian Ayre, the manager Brendan Rodgers and finally the player Luis Suarez. Any, some or all could decide that its time to move him along.

The owners, CEO and manager will no doubt be wondering just how much time and energy they wasted last summer on his failed rehabilitation and just how much more time and energy they could expel this summer on same.

The owners might decide that all thing considered the value of keeping him no longer outweighs the his possibly monetary value. While the release clause value is about 3 times what Liverpool purchased Suarez for the players written down book value after three and a half years of an initial 4.5 year contract is no more than 5 million pounds so its not as if Liverpool have not got pretty good value out of him already . Even as a ‘damaged’ high risk player he can still fetch a handsome amount if not the release clause amount and the club might happy enough to sell even if its for less than the maximum possible. One could even make a case that if the ban is at international level only and it extends over 1 year or more that Suarez will be fresher for his club (whichever it may be) and so is worth the clause valuation.

Speaking of clauses had I been LFC I’d have inserted a NO BITING type provision which if invoked would allow the club or cancel a contract without prejudice or to sell an asset to whoever for whatever amount.

At least LFC would have some options for speedy and cost free action if the very worst happened and a total ban was implemented

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, fool me thrice....?

Chucky the tree

jester77 wrote: »

This is a little different. Keane and Cantona had moments of sheer madness, however Suarez is repeatedly having moments of madness. You could excuse the first time, maybe even the second time but not the third time. And what also makes these different is that both Keane and Cantona were seriously provoked to their tipping point and they went over the edge. With Suarez, he was no more provoked than any other player in those situations, it took very little for him to lose it. And that says to me that he has major problems that need to be dealt with and I don't mean just handing out a ban.

Keane seriously provoked? :pac:

chopperbyrne

Lifetime ban.

He's bitten people three times now.

Why let him play again when he's proven that he'll continue to do so?

ThunbergsAreGo

v3ttel wrote: »

Oddly enough, as a United fan, the person I feel most sorry for in this whole scenario is Brendan Rogers.

I'd imagine he felt like banging his head off a brick wall when he's seen the latest bite and the reaction to it. He has one genuinely top level player who has let him down again and who is surely going to be banned for a lengthy period of time.

Maximum ban of 24 games or two years. Surely for the third offense, the punishment will be close to the maximum. The guy genuinely needs help.

Not sure where this maximum is coming, from the Valencia player (cannot remember his name) got banned for 7 months from all football for his part in a brawl

Omackeral

Reekwind wrote: »

And here comes the same old Utd-Liverpool nonsense.

It's absolute horsesh*t. Wrecking many threads for me to be honest. Here we have the biggest international sporting event in the world (which we only get every four years, I might add) featuring talent from literally every end of the globe and yet the same people insist on focusing on two bloody clubs from the North West of England all the time. Infuriating crap.

Mint Sauce

As a Liverpool fan I'm disapointed, and I believe whilst playing for his country, he also represents his club, the league he plays him, and most importantly him self. No good willcome from this incident, only that Liverpool could hold, on to him due to no other club wanting to risk him. Although I'm not sure I want a such a risk playing for us, especially since this is his third offence for this. Yes he was amazing for us last season when he came back from suspension, but for me it took along time to accept his behaviour, and I beleive many Liverpool fans would think the same. This has now just pushed things back again.

Reekwind

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Well that is how society usually works. You keep the dangerous people away from the rest. That's what institutions and prisons are for...

Again: it is just hysteria to describe Suarez as somehow a menace to other players on the pitch. Biting is not a severe case of violent conduct - how many players have had to leave the pitch after a bite, never mind have had their career ended?

Biting is weird and should be punished. But it is not dangerous. Or at least, it's significantly less so than a malicious tackle or actual violent assault. Banning someone for life for this is just hysterical.

RasTa

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Try a Uruguayan forum then I suppose.

Why are you speaking for them then? It's sort of like Keane walking out on his country during the WC.

Some hailed as a hero, others as a coward. It did have an effect on Keane afterwards so maybe the same for Luis.

Omackeral

niallo27 wrote: »

He is a liverpool player. What do you expect. He has nothing to do with utd but from 5 utd posters we have a total of 187 posts in half a day about him.

No, he's a Uruguay player in this tournament. 5 United fans can have an opinion on any player they want as it's an international tournament. It's a controversial incident that's making front and back pages all over the shop so there's bound to be an abundance of chat about it.

wonga77

Has there ever been a case of players biting before?

ben.schlomo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Well that is how society usually works. You keep the dangerous people away from the rest. That's what institutions and prisons are for...

Okay by that logic then all the players who are unable to tackle, who regularly elbow and who headbutt others are also finished in football. If we expand to a sport like rugby then id say that game will go 5 a side. The absolute rubbish being spouted in this thread is remarkable, a bunch of incredibly self righteous people aboard their very high horses complete with their agendas.

What Suarez did was wrong, he will rightly be sanctioned in some form. End of.

Was it worse than the link below, not in a million years, get on your high horses regarding that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KoMfW7ragc

Chucky the tree

RasTa wrote: »

Why are you speaking for them then? It's sort of like Keane walking out on his country during the WC.

Some hailed as a hero, others as a coward. It did have an effect on Keane afterwards so maybe the same for Luis.

It's nothing like Keane. Suarez isn't walking out on his country.

Penny Tration

Reekwind wrote: »

Again: it is just hysteria to describe Suarez as somehow a menace to other players on the pitch. Biting is not a severe case of violent conduct - how many players have had to leave the pitch after a bite, never mind have had their career ended?

Biting is weird and should be punished. But it is not dangerous. Or at least, it's significantly less so than a malicious tackle or actual violent assault. Banning someone for life for this is just hysterical.

Biting IS a vicious assault. There are incidents (not in soccer, admittedly) where people have lost tips of noses, parts of ears, and in lesser cases, been scarred for life.

If someone has an STD, biting can pass it to another person due to blood contact.

Biting is a very vicious assault and can do permanent damage.

If someone loses their temper enough to actually bite someone, how can they be expected to control themselves sufficiently to not do permanent damage by biting too hard?

Will I Amnt

Reekwind wrote: »

Again: it is just hysteria to describe Suarez as somehow a menace to other players on the pitch. Biting is not a severe case of violent conduct - how many players have had to leave the pitch after a bite, never mind have had their career ended?

Biting is weird and should be punished. But it is not dangerous. Or at least, it's significantly less so than a malicious tackle or actual violent assault. Banning someone for life for this is just hysterical.

He is a menace. Who the f*ck wants to be bitten???

bucketybuck

Despite him being a racist and despite him three times biting another person like some spoilt puppy, I still think the worst thing he has done was that two footed lunge at a player when he was at Ajax.

That was utterly cowardly, and it just shows his mentality on the field, this is a man who has no compunction about hurting his fellow professional. Just wait and see, some day he is going to sink an elbow into someones face or break a leg with another two footed challenge, thats just the type of person he is.

Harpy

I can't believe he actually did that again. After such a great season he was finally being recognised for what he should be recognised for and people where starting to warm to him and then he just goes and bites another..

I dunno and then the Uruguayans coming out blaming ye Italian...

He's prob less likely to leave Liverpool now unfortunately...

DARK-KNIGHT

Reekwind wrote: »

Again: it is just hysteria to describe Suarez as somehow a menace to other players on the pitch. Biting is not a severe case of violent conduct - how many players have had to leave the pitch after a bite, never mind have had their career ended?

Biting is weird and should be punished. But it is not dangerous. Or at least, it's significantly less so than a malicious tackle or actual violent assault. Banning someone for life for this is just hysterical.

a bite can lead to all sorts of medical problems..... so yes its very dangerous

Chucky the tree

Will I Amnt wrote: »

He is a menace. Who the f*ck wants to be bitten???

Who wants someone on the pitch who is willing to end someone's career? Or elbow someone, or stamp on their testicles? Did you call for Rooney and Keane to be banned indefinitely from the game when this happened?

P_1

wonga77 wrote: »

Has there ever been a case of players biting before?

I'm struggling to think of a football example but Dylan Hartley (NEngland and Northampton hooker) is possibly the other most high profile recent case. He got an 8 week ban for it but supposedly the range of bans goes up to 4 years.

CurryFlavoured

He's a mad man alright. If you're provoked on the pitch and hit someone a box or the likes, you're probably a bit of a thug and deserve a ban but it's somewhat understandable (not condoning it, but you can see why it happened). Suarez was nudged by Chiellini so he decided to bite him on the shoulder, now I can't explain that one. Same thing with Ivanovic, they bumped into each other in the box so he bit him, complete madness. The time he bit the PSV player he wasn't provoked in any way either, he's a loose cannon and has a screw loose somewhere. Not only is he easily provoked but his reactions are ludicrous, when your first reaction in a moment of anger is to bite someone you must have issues.

First bite ban was 2 games (somehow), 2nd time around it was 10 games, he still hasn't learned his lesson. Time for a lengthy ban and to get Luis to sort out his problems.