Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 *mod warning linked in OP 26/07*

K-9

Charlie19 wrote: »

I totally agree with you on Johnson but there doesn't seem to be any smoke regarding a transfer out so I'd reckon Rodgers will keep him in the side and I'd be happy enough with Flannagin keeping his place on the left.

If we are buying only one FB I'd prefer a RB. If Enrique is fit and we've Flanagan as cover I'd be ok with that, RB we really don't have much options at all.

Turtyturd

mormank wrote: »

Yup, but judging off previous reports of Barca's transfer dealings who knows when we will be seeing the last 21mill or whatever it is.

It will be knocked off the fee next season when 'Louie' comes 'home'.

K-9

garra wrote: »

How can anyone take these stats seriously when Sterling has a 100% shot accuracy rating and Isco has completed 100% of his passes? Load of cobblers that.

Yep, first thought for me too. Oddly there was comparison stats for Sterling a couple of days ago and his chance conversion rate was 26/27%, better than Suarez and a few other good quality comparisons.

The stats guys must be watching different matches to me! Must be he got better as the season went on. Funny how early impressions stick!

Kirby

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, first thought for me too. Oddly there was comparison stats for Sterling a couple of days ago and his chance conversion rate was 26/27%, better than Suarez and a few other good quality comparisons.

The stats guys must be watching different matches to me! Must be he got better as the season went on. Funny how early impressions stick!

The 100% stat was an error. It came up correct if you refreshed the page.

But I agree with you completely in principal. People shouldn't judge players by stats but by watching them play. You can manipulate numbers to back up any argument you care to make. Watching a player yourself is a much better indication.

K-9

Knex. wrote: »

"Will only receive about £54million".

Only.

Jaysus.

That would mean the fee must be £75 Million or whatever. If it was €75 Million or £65 Million you wouldn't say we are only getting £54 Million up front.

Knex*

K-9 wrote: »

That would mean the fee must be £75 Million or whatever. If it was €75 Million or £65 Million you wouldn't say we are only getting £54 Million up front.

Yeah, definitely.

Still, I was more getting at the fact that someone put, "only getting", and followed it by a number as ridiculous as £54 million.

Washington Irving

K-9 wrote: »

That would mean the fee must be £75 Million or whatever. If it was €75 Million or £65 Million you wouldn't say we are only getting £54 Million up front.

Your sig needs editing. Might I suggest a nice Glen Johnson? Perhaps a Reus or di Maria in anticipation of their imminent arrivals?

Knex. wrote: »

Yeah, definitely.

Still, I was more getting at the fact that someone put, "only getting", and followed it by a number as ridiculous as £54 million.

Peasant.

0028673

The latest on Manquillo, it's early days regarding the deal.

Given Glen Johnson's form for the last 2 years I'm probably more elated with this prospective transfer than all our other dealings so far


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/javier-manquillo-liverpool-fc-reds-7476406

Fescue

0028673 wrote: »

The latest on Manquillo, it's early days regarding the deal.

Given Glen Johnson's form for the last 2 years I'm probably more elated with this prospective transfer than all our other dealings so far


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/javier-manquillo-liverpool-fc-reds-7476406

I would imagine that's it for Martin Kelly.

Also likely to be the end of Wisdom at the club if they are pursuing someone younger and less experienced.

There are a lot of players facing the axe in the coming weeks.

Sir Gallagher

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Was the Suarez paid up front or in installments?

We are being paid in 625,000,000 packets of Banshee Bones, 10 by the week. Deal should be wrapped up in about a million years or so. Of course the whole landscape of football will have changed by then. Liverpool F.C will be renamed The Peoples Republic of Cabra, captained by none other than a humanoid created through advanced robotics and the DNA of Freddy Adu, who fortunately has ceased living by being encased in a giant globule of amber. His DNA will have been extracted, of course, using the same method as Richard Attenborough's character in Jurrasic Park.

If anyone tells you otherwise, they are a fibber.

Knex*

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

We are being paid in 625,000,000 packets of Banshee Bones, 10 by the week. Deal should be wrapped up in about a million years or so. Of course the whole landscape of football will have changed by then. Liverpool F.C will be renamed The Peoples Republic of Cabra, captained by none other than a humanoid created through advanced robotics and the DNA of Freddy Adu, who fortunately has ceased living by being encased in a giant globule of amber. His DNA will have been extracted, of course, using the same method as Richard Attenborough's character in Jurrasic Park.

If anyone tells you otherwise, they are a fibber.

Finally, someone has put all this transfer nonsense into plain, Lehman's English.

0028673

Fescue wrote: »

I would imagine that's it for Martin Kelly.

Also likely to be the end of Wisdom at the club if they are pursuing someone younger and less experienced.

There are a lot of players facing the axe in the coming weeks.

I can see Kelly being sold. He has been unlucky with injuries which have hindered his development.

Wisdom is gone on loan to West Brom which could be the makings of him, he needs Premier League experience, hopefully he can nail down the RB slot and gain experience. He is only 21 and I certainly would not write him off having a career with us just yet.

mormank

Turtyturd wrote: »

It will be knocked off the fee next season when 'Louie' comes 'home'.

I'll happily settle for that! :P

ArmaniJeanss

mormank wrote: »

It's crazy that they get away with that tbh. It gives them such an advantage over other top European clubs. An unfair one imo.

Not really that crazy, other clubs are also free to make their own TV deals but have chosen to go a collective route. But ultimately if an EPL team wished to go it alone then there would be nothing to stop them (though it would cause a major earthquake throughout the English game obviously).

ArmaniJeanss

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

But ultimately if an EPL team wished to go it alone then there would be nothing to stop them.

Sure about that?

Turtyturd

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

We are being paid in 625,000,000 packets of Banshee Bones, 10 by the week. Deal should be wrapped up in about a million years or so. Of course the whole landscape of football will have changed by then. Liverpool F.C will be renamed The Peoples Republic of Cabra, captained by none other than a humanoid created through advanced robotics and the DNA of Freddy Adu, who fortunately has ceased living by being encased in a giant globule of amber. His DNA will have been extracted, of course, using the same method as Richard Attenborough's character in Jurrasic Park.

If anyone tells you otherwise, they are a fibber.

My initial thought on this was 'I get the banshee bones but how the f*ck did he come up with the rest?'.....it was quickly replaced by 'In a million and 20 years we are going to have a whole team of Freddy Adu T800's because the frog used to create the original can change sex and reproduce with itself.'

K-9

Fescue wrote: »

I would imagine that's it for Martin Kelly.

Also likely to be the end of Wisdom at the club if they are pursuing someone younger and less experienced.

There are a lot of players facing the axe in the coming weeks.

I seriously don't know where people get this view of Wisdom, he seems to be getting treated the right way, loan to Championship, then WBA and should be ready to fit into the squad next season. Whiff of Sterling about this stuff.

Good blog piece on the tour.

The absence of Emre Can was noted too, with the Germany Under-21 international sitting out because of the injury sustained against Preston at the weekend.

He must have got his own private jet over seeing as according to twitter reports he wasn't on the plane yesterday!

Early observations were made, both useful and irreverent. Jordon Ibe looked happy and confident; Fabio Borini looked determined; Jordan Henderson had seemingly grown even taller; Glen Johnson had grown his hair.

Johnson growing more hair is a good sign, shows a competitive streak {get it?) in the important luvly hair competition.

Once a ball was introduced, the players came alive. They split into two groups and worked through the familiar drill of one player being placed in the middle, while those who circled him passed it around. Whoever gave the ball away became the defender.


Close control, movement and first touch were essential. Colin Pascoe, who took one of the groups, exhibited all three routinely. In that group, Philippe Coutinho, Raheem Sterling, Ibe, Gerrard and Adam Lallana contributed to a score of 31.


In the other group, Lazar Markovic shone. His touch was fantastic, even when the ball was drilled at him; the Serbian had even caught the eye earlier, his balletic movement when dribbling a ball quite something.

Nothing particularly new there, well apart from Markovic should be a "fine" player at least.

All this in front of what had now become 40 or 50 spectators, peering through the chainlink fence. Some were fanatical, while others just wanted to see the players in action; one person even dedicated his time to showing Borini a lot of love through song.

My personal bit was the Borini song. suarezistheman?

ArmaniJeanss

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sure about that?

I think there'd be a hell of a lot of huffing and puffing about it, and threatening to expel them, and major pressure brought to bear.
But assuming its MUFC or Liverpool or Arsenal that we are talking about, the simple truth is that the rest of the league wouldn't expel one of their biggest draws. And ultimately the law would uphold that they are perfectly within their rights to do their own deals for their own home games.

Anyway the precedent is already there throughout the game - teams legally keep every penny of their own matchday ticket revenue, sponsorship, merchandising - TV money is not particularly different.

All imo, I'm no expert.

Washington Irving

K-9 wrote: »

Good blog piece on the tour.


He must have got his own private jet over seeing as according to twitter reports he wasn't on the plane yesterday!

If you're talking about the James Pearce tweet he backtracked on that. There were pics of Can boarding the plane in Liverpool. He just didn't train due to the calf injury.

rob316

Its shows how mad transfer fees are gone, Suarez looks an absolute bargain at £75m when you consider James Rodriguez went for £63m. Shame about that buy out clause and probably the last bite we really could have gotten more.

mormank

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Not really that crazy, other clubs are also free to make their own TV deals but have chosen to go a collective route. But ultimately if an EPL team wished to go it alone then there would be nothing to stop them (though it would cause a major earthquake throughout the English game obviously).

Well it gives them a massive financial clout and increases the gap between the richer and poorer clubs in Spain. But ultimately also gives them an advantage over other European clubs.

Underpaid Mike

If tv cash was paid out on viewership figures for each team over the season it would look like this. (not done by me but by some nerd on reddit fyi)

ardinn

If Barca are a day late with the rest of the payment for Suarez we should take him back! And keep the 54m. That'd be great business!!

Rayne Wooney

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

If tv cash was paid out on viewership figures for each team over the season it would look like this. (not done by me but by some nerd on reddit fyi)

Is that not just for BT?

Speak Now

ardinn wrote: »

If Barca are a day late with the rest of the payment for Suarez we should take him back! And keep the 54m. That'd be great business!!

Best bit of business done by Rodgers all summer perhaps?

Underpaid Mike

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Is that not just for BT?

Full overview of the cash here
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2014/05/14/where-the-money-went-liverpool-top-premier-league-prize-cash-in-2013-14-140501/

Every club gets an ‘equal’ share of £52,198,111, which derives from domestic TV income (£21,631,444 per club), overseas income (£26,295,817) and commercial income (£4,270,850).
Every club then gets another sum depending on league position, worth £1,236,083 per place in the table, from that sum for bottom-placed Cardiff to £24,721,600 to winners City.

Each club also gets a variable amount depending on how many times they were shown live on Sky or BT this season. Every club got a minimum of £8.6m from this pot, even if they were shown as rarely as Stoke (just seven live televised games). Liverpool, shown 28 times, got £21.9m in these ‘facility fees’.
This season’s rewards are a huge leap on last season’s TV income, with Liverpool earning £42.7m more than season than last, for example.
Clubs have three main revenue streams: match day income (from tickets, corporate dining etcetera), media income (of which the payments listed are the largest but not the only part) and commercial income (from kit deals, sponsorship, merchandise, tours and so on).

Knex*

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

If tv cash was paid out on viewership figures for each team over the season it would look like this. (not done by me but by some nerd on reddit fyi)

Our year.

Also, apt username for the post.

Rayne Wooney

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Full overview of the cash here
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2014/05/14/where-the-money-went-liverpool-top-premier-league-prize-cash-in-2013-14-140501/

I'm not talking about the cash part, I think those viewership figures are based on BT alone which is a bit misleading because they showed more Liverpool games than any other team and therefore would have had a lot more Liverpool subscribers than Sky or Setanta.

MD1990

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'm not talking about the cash part, I think those viewership figures are based on BT alone which is a bit misleading because they showed more Liverpool games than any other team and therefore would have had a lot more Liverpool subscribers than Sky or Setanta.

That is Sky & BT viewership. BT have only 40 games a season. Are u actually reading that chart correctly?

Underpaid Mike

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'm not talking about the cash part, I think those viewership figures are based on BT alone which is a bit misleading because they showed more Liverpool games than any other team and therefore would have had a lot more Liverpool subscribers than Sky or Setanta.

Did you not read the article? It says they were shown 28 times across sky and BT and explains where the money comes from including MOTD etc

Each club also gets a variable amount depending on how many times they were shown live on Sky or BT this season. Every club got a minimum of £8.6m from this pot, even if they were shown as rarely as Stoke (just seven live televised games). Liverpool, shown 28 times, got £21.9m in these ‘facility fees’.

Rayne Wooney

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Did you not read the article? It says they were shown 28 times across sky and BT and explains where the money comes from including MOTD etc

So Liverpool were watched 36 million times last season on all channels?

K-9

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'm not talking about the cash part, I think those viewership figures are based on BT alone which is a bit misleading because they showed more Liverpool games than any other team and therefore would have had a lot more Liverpool subscribers than Sky or Setanta.

Just looking at the total number of games and nothing else (don't know enough otherwise tbh) it looks like it is all games. BT were limited in the amount of games they could show from one club, about 10 IIRC, and that was used up in January. Obviously didn't expect us to be in a title challenge or competing for 4th for that matter! Added bonus of not listening to Owen for half a season.

Rayne Wooney

K-9 wrote: »

Just looking at the total number of games and nothing else (don't know enough otherwise tbh) it looks like it is all games. BT were limited in the amount of games they could show from one club, about 10 IIRC, and that was used up in January. Obviously didn't expect us to be in a title challenge or competing for 4th for that matter! Added bonus of not listening to Owen for half a season.

I thought it would be a lot higher tbh

K-9

£5.3 Billion in TV revenue (doesn't include MotD and other stuff), about €2 Billion a season. Jaysus! First World problems!

Fescue

K-9 wrote: »

I seriously don't know where people get this view of Wisdom, he seems to be getting treated the right way, loan to Championship, then WBA and should be ready to fit into the squad next season. Whiff of Sterling about this stuff.

Good blog piece on the tour.



He must have got his own private jet over seeing as according to twitter reports he wasn't on the plane yesterday!



Johnson growing more hair is a good sign, shows a competitive streak {get it?) in the important luvly hair competition.




Nothing particularly new there, well apart from Markovic should be a "fine" player at least.





My personal bit was the Borini song. suarezistheman?

Why send Wisdom out on loan and then draft in another young right back from Spain with less experience and a year younger?

I thought after his fine year at Derby he would challenge Glenjo this season. Signing Manquillo suggests to me Wisdom is not rated by the club.

Underpaid Mike

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So Liverpool were watched 36 million times last season on all channels?

Ok first off its not my table
It is an follow on from a sporting intelligence article which I posted
A guy on reddit adjusted the table out of curiosity to see what it would look like if there wasnt a set fee agree for tv rights like in other countries.

The 36m viewership figure is simply his total revenue figure divided by the £m per viewers number in the right hand column. It is far from data science. It is meant as a "what if"

And for the third time it will make more sense if you actually read the article instead of asking me questions about it :eek:

Raif Severance

Fescue wrote: »

Why send Wisdom out on loan and then draft in another young right back from Spain with less experience and a year younger?

I thought after his fine year at Derby he would challenge Glenjo this season. Signing Manquillo suggests to me Wisdom is not rated by the club.

I don't think Rodgers and Co. see Wisdom as a RB for Liverpool.

I think he's being Groomed to be a Future CB for us. That's why he's being Sent on Loan, to Gain more Experience.

Fescue

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Ok first off its not my table
It is an follow on from a sporting intelligence article which I posted
A guy on reddit adjusted the table out of curiosity to see what it would look like if there wasnt a set fee agree for tv rights like in other countries.

The 36m viewership figure is simply his total revenue figure divided by the £m per viewers number in the right hand column. It is far from data science. It is meant as a "what if"

And for the third time it will make more sense if you actually read the article instead of asking me questions about it :eek:

I don't understand this table, can you break it down for me? Step by step.

Francie Barrett

Agree on Wisdom. He's a decent player, but from what I've seen, he's that bit too awkward to be a top full back and doesn't quite have the ability to command an area or read the game in order to make him a top centre back.

Fescue

Raif Severance wrote: »

I don't think Rodgers and Co. see Wisdom as a RB for Liverpool.

I think he's being Groomed to be a Future CB for us. That's why he's being Sent on Loan, to Gain more Experience.

He played the entire season at right back for Derby. If he plays at the centre for WBA, then sure he could be a potential centre back for us. I just felt he was ready this season to be part of the first team squad.

Thud

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Ok first off its not my table
It is an follow on from a sporting intelligence article which I posted
A guy on reddit adjusted the table out of curiosity to see what it would look like if there wasnt a set fee agree for tv rights like in other countries.

The 36m viewership figure is simply his total revenue figure divided by the £m per viewers number in the right hand column. It is far from data science. It is meant as a "what if"

And for the third time it will make more sense if you actually read the article instead of asking me questions about it :eek:

I'm too lazy to read the article, surely ManU are the bestest club in the world, no?

Raif Severance

Fescue wrote: »

He played the entire season at right back for Derby. If he plays at the centre for WBA, then sure he could be a potential centre back for us. I just felt he was ready this season to be part of the first team squad.

We've got alot of Senior CBs in the Squad, ahead of Wisdom in the Pecking Order.

So even if we've Kept him, it will be hard for him to get some Game-Time. And getting Game-Time as well as Experience, is the most Important Thing right now, for a Young Player like Wisdom.

I mean, just look at Kelly. If we are not going to loan Wisdom, then he's going to be like him. Always at Liverpool, but rarely gets to play.

Agent Coulson

I am reading on different sites that Marco Reus is going to do the dirt on Dortmund next season and join Bayern the same way Gotze did.

So I guess that rule him out of a move here or anywhere else.

K-9

Fescue wrote: »

Why send Wisdom out on loan and then draft in another young right back from Spain with less experience and a year younger?

I thought after his fine year at Derby he would challenge Glenjo this season. Signing Manquillo suggests to me Wisdom is not rated by the club.

Probably Rodgers feels he isn't quite ready and it's best for his overall development, that doesn't mean he has wrote him off or isn't rated. It's hard to know with young players, we'd all written off Flanagan last season (nobody wanted to take him on even for a loan) and we'd nothing much to go on for that, it wasn't as if he was on loan at a good standard or anything like that.

Sterling got criticised too, even when he came in for his first couple of games, just because he wasn't tearing it up he's shyte, or similar stuff. The problem was he was playing well enough, our play just wasn't as good as it later became for him to blossom. And well, he was a bit rusty after 6 months or more out of first team football.

We get criticised for our use of the loan system and rightly so. Ibe hardly got much time at Birmingham, same happened with a few youths over the last few seasons. This one seems exactly the right thing to do, send him to a good coach (McClaren is despite his faults) at a good standard, now send him to a EPL club with a manager and coach Rodgers seems to know and rate, knows he'll be in good hands.

So, there's a balance between sending them to lower leagues, getting little experience and then expecting them to be ready for the squad, or doing a Chelsea which doesn't seem to work either. They can afford to waste tens of millions invested in the youth set up, we can't. We need to be getting a couple of good prospects coming through every season.

Manquillo, if you look at it a different way, could well be a "loan to see how Wisdom gets on" type thing, if Wisdom does well not much need to buy him, or if both do well, cheerio Glenjo.

I do rate Wisdom, think he's the potential to be a decent squad player at the very least. Did very well all things considered when played for the first team in big matches when he got thrown in at the deep end.

Knex*

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I am reading on different sites that Marco Reus is going to do the dirt on Dortmund next season and join Bayern the same way Gotze did.

So I guess that rule him out of a move here or anywhere else.

Hopefully we manage to make a profit on him when we do sell to Bayern.

Fescue

Raif Severance wrote: »

We've got alot of Senior CBs in the Squad, ahead of Wisdom in the Pecking Order.

So even if we've Kept him, it will be hard for him to get some Game-Time. And getting Game-Time as well as Experience, is the most Important Thing right now, for a Young Player like Wisdom.

I mean, just look at Kelly. If we are not going to loan Wisdom, then he's going to be like him. Always at Liverpool, but rarely gets to play.

My feeling is that he is a right back. I think thats why West Brom signed him, he's been given the number 2 shirt as well.

Surely if his future is at right back he's ready to challenge Glen Johnson. I watched Wisdom a number of times last season for Derby and I thought he looked good at right back. Solid.

With the number of games coming up this season, he could easily have pushed on as a player and perhaps even overtaken Johnson. The fact the club are turning to an inexperienced Spanish youngster to provide competition at right back is the confusing part for me.

Strongbow10

K-9 wrote: »

Probably Rodgers feels he isn't quite ready and it's best for his overall development, that doesn't mean he has wrote him off or isn't rated. It's hard to know with young players, we'd all written off Flanagan last season (nobody wanted to take him on even for a loan) and we'd nothing much to go on for that, it wasn't as if he was on loan at a good standard or anything like that.

Sterling got criticised too, even when he came in for his first couple of games, just because he wasn't tearing it up he's shyte, or similar stuff. The problem was he was playing well enough, our play just wasn't as good as it later became for him to blossom. And well, he was a bit rusty after 6 months or more out of first team football.

We get criticised for our use of the loan system and rightly so. Ibe hardly got much time at Birmingham, same happened with a few youths over the last few seasons. This one seems exactly the right thing to do, send him to a good coach (McClaren is despite his faults) at a good standard, now send him to a EPL club with a manager and coach Rodgers seems to know and rate, knows he'll be in good hands.

So, there's a balance between sending them to lower leagues, getting little experience and then expecting them to be ready for the squad, or doing a Chelsea which doesn't seem to work either. They can afford to waste tens of millions invested in the youth set up, we can't. We need to be getting a couple of good prospects coming through every season.

Manquillo, if you look at it a different way, could well be a "loan to see how Wisdom gets on" type thing, if Wisdom does well not much need to buy him, or if both do well, cheerio Glenjo.

I do rate Wisdom, think he's the potential to be a decent squad player at the very least. Did very well all things considered when played for the first team in big matches when he got thrown in at the deep end.

well said re: loans

I'd like to see Wisdom blooded at centre back though at some stage and if he is going to feature at centre half for us at come stage then we will need him to gain experience in that position elsewhere first.

I'm not sure West Brom are going to take a chance on playing him centre half in all honesty though.

Martin Kelly was a similar story. Highly rated at centre half in his early youth at the club, only to play more prominently as a right back with the reserves and also making a breakthrough in that position during a loan move to Huddersfield I believe it was.

Kelly is not cut out for full back in my opinion, technically not going to make a top level full back, but with experience he had a shot at being a good central defender but I fear that ship has sailed unfortunately.

Wisdom hopefully doesn't suffer the same fate as I also believe that whilst physically more suited to playing right back than Kelly, he is simply not good enough on the ball (in terms of his distribution) to be a top class full back.

Underpaid Mike

indykaila News ‏@indykaila 5m
Exclusive: Bayern Munich have just made enquires for Marco Reus within last 24 hours.

The least reliable rumourmonger on twitter
Probably safe to assume Reus will never join Bayern if this clown is reporting it.

Didnt Klopp come out and say yesterday that Reus and Hummels will be going no where?

Fescue

Obviously don't know much about Javier Manquillo but I did find this image of him in action for Atletico Madrid.



First impressions suggest he is going to be an upgrade on Glen Johnson.

Underpaid Mike

Javier Manquillo vs Almeria (A): http://youtu.be/_IuNmSLy4tg?a