Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 *mod warning linked in OP 26/07*

T-K-O

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Nine times out of ten Johnson goes up the right wing and gives the ball away...THAT doesn't help anyone.

I'd imagine that's a little high

Kerrigooney

T-K-O wrote: »

I'd imagine that's a little high

Figure of speech...but not too far off,I'd say.

T-K-O

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Figure of speech...but not too far off,I'd say.

I get that but those comments quickly escalate in here to Johnson has never completed a pass.

If he was on half the money the trainee accountants would be fine with him as a squad player.

Super-Rush

K-9 wrote: »

Time to update the sig, stuck through Suarez through and through, even a couple of pms saying it was terrible behaviour having him as my sig and me a politics mod!

Had to change my avatar today. I was still using Christmas Suarez from two years ago.

Super-Rush

Rafa paid way too much for Johnson at the time. Way too bloody much.

Washington Irving

Super-Rush wrote: »

Rafa paid way too much for Johnson at the time. Way too bloody much.

Portsmouth owed us money for Crouch, money we never would have got back if not for the Johnson deal.

MD1990

Washington Irving wrote: »

Portsmouth owed us money for Crouch, money we never would have got back if not for the Johnson deal.

So we overpaid for Johnson because they owed us money from Crouch.
Doesn't make sense should we not have got Johnson cheaper then?

Morzadec

Johnson is nowhere near the liability he is being made out to be.

However, his performances are inconsistent and he's shown a lot of poor decision making recently I feel. A bit dawdly on the ball too which slows down attacks.

Like Knex says he's 'grand', he's not someone I see in the team as a major weakness who I'm worried is going to cost us points.

It's a position we could consider upgrading, but I wouldn't be shocked if Johnson turned in some good performances to surprise people.

Because of his wages and stature within the game I feel it's probably not something we will properly look at until his contract runs out.

murpho999

Live and free coverage of the squad training is now available on LFC website if you're interested.


Edit: Bar stewards only did it for about 10 minutes which is a complete waste of time.

Washington Irving

MD1990 wrote: »

So we overpaid for Johnson because they owed us money from Crouch.
Doesn't make sense should we not have got Johnson cheaper then?

We didn't pay the whole fee for Johnson. £18 million fee agreed, Portsmouth owed us £7 million which they didn't have, so we pay them £11 million and write off the other 7.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Sign me up to the Johnson fan club, well the he's nowhere near as bad as people make out club.

It's obviously popular in here to make a harmless joke at GJ's expense, but I hold out hope he might come back next season with a bit of fire in the belly, he seemed to be very lax at times last year, hopefully a good break in the summer and he will get back to near his best form, when he's on form he's a quality player.

Knex*

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

Sign me up to the Johnson fan club, well the he's nowhere near as bad as people make out club.

It's obviously popular in here to make a harmless joke at GJ's expense, but I hold out hope he might come back next season with a bit of fire in the belly, he seemed to be very lax at times last year, hopefully a good break in the summer and he will get back to near his best form, when he's on form he's a quality player.

You're just looking for thanks from the other members :pac:

Pilsbury Doughboy

Aye but we're seemingly a rare breed so I won't gather too many thanks! Dissing Johnno is the way to accrue the big numbers!

T-K-O

Remember when Rodgers did the unthinkable by asking Nuri Sahin to turn left.

Charlie19

There ain't much between our fullbacks ability tbf but when I take out the abacus:), Johnson would be the first one I'd move on. That said, I still see Johnson being a regular starter for the new season, think it would be fairly hard to find a buyer because of his high wages.

OwaynOTT

Sorry but Johnson has been muck for quite a while and anyone saying otherwise is just being contrary.
His concentration is terrible, his touch makes Kuyt look like messi at times, he just doesn't head the ball, strolls back, positionally awol on numerous occasions, shots with his left foot with frequently diminishing returns, steals toilet seats, runs into traffic with the ball and loses it a lot, over plays too often, woeful crossing but gets a few assists to help cover up his faults and doesn't make too many obvious defensive errors which helps mask his decline and he has some pace.

martyos121

If everyone here tears into Johnson for being caught out of position and having below average defensive skills, I'm dying to see what ye'll say about Moreno if we sign him. He's great going forward, and has a bit more pace to get back to defend a counter attack, but he's no better than GlenJo defensively.

kevohmsford

Speaking of Glen Johnson. He is 30 today.

Ferris_Bueller

For me Glen Johnson was always suspect defensively (although not as bad as some people make out) but there was a time where his attacking play made him worth having in the team, for me he was one of the best right backs in the league at one stage. Over the past 18 months though his performances dropped a lot and in the second half of this season it got to the stage where he was very bad defensively and offered nothing productive going forward. I'd be willing to give him another chance this season but at least between Manquilo and Flanagan we have people who can step in if his performances don't improve.

OwaynOTT

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Sorry but Moreno is as bad as Johnson and anyone saying otherwise is just being contrary.
His concentration is terrible, his touch makes Kuyt look like messi at times, he just doesn't head the ball, strolls back, positionally awol on numerous occasions, shots with his left foot with frequently diminishing returns, steals toilet seats, runs into traffic with the ball and loses it a lot, over plays too often, woeful crossing but gets a few assists to help cover up his faults and doesn't make too many obvious defensive errors which helps mask his decline and he has some pace.

martyos121 wrote: »

If everyone here tears into Johnson for being caught out of position and having below average defensive skills, I'm dying to see what ye'll say about Moreno if we sign him. He's great going forward, and has a bit more pace to get back to defend a counter attack, but he's no better than GlenJo defensively.

Yeah I said as much above.

kevohmsford

Super-Rush

Washington Irving wrote: »

We didn't pay the whole fee for Johnson. £18 million fee agreed, Portsmouth owed us £7 million which they didn't have, so we pay them £11 million and write off the other 7.

Its the same thing though. He was never worth £18, not in a million years.

There was a reason that Chelsea let him go.

Dont be at yourself

The reasoning behind it, as Rafa explained, was that is was ultimately cheaper to add an attacking threat from full-back than to buy a top class wide midfielder.

For what it's worth, I agree with that, and looking at some other fees, I don't think Johnson was a bad buy, even at a notional £18m.

Hollister11

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/07/the-rise-and-fall-of-football-empires/

best article i have read in years

woodyg

5starpool wrote: »

Johnson, like Lucas is blamed disproportionately for things. It's lazy analysis mostly I think. Also, he is worse than he was, but not as much as is made out imo.

i agree with this and to be fair he played when injured and has also filled in left back which is not his position.
another season from him would be fine.
spend the money elsewhere this summer
Agger is looking like a goner so another centre back will be needed if Lovren isn't coming.
I still would like another midfielder to be got even on a loan.
Just someone to play the cups and 10 league games.
An experienced player would be ideal.
A Gary Mac type if you get my drift

martyos121

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Yeah I said as much above.

Well that's odd. I see that you mentioned Moreno in your quote, but he isn't mentioned in the original post that you quoted?

T-K-O

martyos121 wrote: »

Well that's odd. I see that you mentioned Moreno in your quote, but he isn't mentioned in the original post that you quoted?

you''re just being contrary

~Rebel~

Super-Rush wrote: »

Its the same thing though. He was never worth £18, not in a million years.

There was a reason that Chelsea let him go.

Some people seem to be missing the point on this - he wasn't 18 million, he was 11.

They owed us 7 million, which we were never getting. Noone they owed money to got any money. We wanted a player they had who had a value of 11. It suited both parties to call it 18, write off the 7 owed, and walk away happy.

Why would we pay 11 if they owed us 7? Why wouldn't we just pay 4? Because there is 0 incentive for them to take that deal. They were under no obligation to sell to us just because they owed us money. If we wanted to do that, they'd just sell to someone else for 11 or 12 or 13.

We struck a deal which suited both parties. We get the player for a pretty fair value, they get to make their disastrous accounts look a little better.

tomaussie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Some people seem to be missing the point on this - he wasn't 18 million, he was 11.

They owed us 7 million, which we were never getting. Noone they owed money to got any money. We wanted a player they had who had a value of 11. It suited both parties to call it 18, write off the 7 owed, and walk away happy.

Why would we pay 11 if they owed us 7? Why wouldn't we just pay 4? Because there is 0 incentive for them to take that deal. They were under no obligation to sell to us just because they owed us money. If we wanted to do that, they'd just sell to someone else for 11 or 12 or 13.

We struck a deal which suited both parties. We get the player for a pretty fair value, they get to make their disastrous accounts look a little better.

What a truly weird way to look at it.

So why not value him at 11 and pay them 4 ?

If they were so broke them why not play hard ball and offer as little as possible ?

I understand what you're saying but it makes zero sense to me in terms of business.

T-K-O

tomaussie wrote: »

What a truly weird way to look at it.

So why not value him at 11 and pay them 4 ?

If they were so broke them why not play hard ball and offer as little as possible ?

I understand what you're saying but it makes zero sense to me in terms of business.

The player was in demand at the time and we wanted him. Other clubs would have signed him for 10+

tomaussie

T-K-O wrote: »

The player was in demand at the time and we wanted him. Other clubs would have signed him for 10+

Worth 10+ but we paid 18.

Don't care how this is sliced but those are the facts.

T-K-O

tomaussie wrote: »

Worth 10+ but we paid 18.

Don't care how this is sliced but those are the facts.

Who knows what they were thinking but we didn't get him for 4 million for good reason. IMO 15 would have been a fair price

NukaCola

Some people may go over the top on criticism on Johnson but surely everyone can agree that he should be replaced.

Personally I'm happy enough to see him run out his contract here but I think most people are looking at his contribution to the team and his massive wages and see that Johnson is just not value for money anymore which i agree with.

Kerrigooney

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

Aye but we're seemingly a rare breed so I won't gather too many thanks! Dissing Johnno is the way to accrue the big numbers!

Not true. I dissed him in 3 separate posts above and didn't get a single 'thank'.

Now I have to go to work practically in tears and feeling like a loser

Gonna be a long day.

5live

kevohmsford wrote: »

Speaking of Glen Johnson. He is 30 today.

Just don't buy him a cake and we are sorted.

~Rebel~

tomaussie wrote: »

What a truly weird way to look at it.

So why not value him at 11 and pay them 4 ?

If they were so broke them why not play hard ball and offer as little as possible ?

I understand what you're saying but it makes zero sense to me in terms of business.

Why would Pourtsmouth take that deal? Would make no sense. They could have sold him to anyone for 11.

tomaussie wrote: »

Worth 10+ but we paid 18.

Don't care how this is sliced but those are the facts.

Ok, so lets put it this way. After our deal was concluded, we were out 18 million pounds. If we had instead gone and bought any other full back in the world for 11 million, how much would we have been out afterwards? 18 million pounds. That 7 from Portsmouth was dead. Whether we bought from them or anyone else, that 7 mllion was never ever coming into Liverpools bank account. By actually doing a deal with them, it favoured both sides accounts. They get to legally write off the debt, we technically have an 18 million pound asset (players count as financial assets just the same as buildings etc, so we falsely increased the value of the club by 7 million, and removed bad debt), and of course got the player we wanted.

Oranage2

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Why would Pourtsmouth take that deal? Would make no sense. They could have sold him to anyone for 11.



Ok, so lets put it this way. After our deal was concluded, we were out 18 million pounds. If we had instead gone and bought any other full back in the world for 11 million, how much would we have been out afterwards? 18 million pounds. That 7 from Portsmouth was dead. Whether we bought from them or anyone else, that 7 mllion was never ever coming into Liverpools bank account. By actually doing a deal with them, it favoured both sides accounts. They get to legally write off the debt, we technically have an 18 million pound asset (players count as financial assets just the same as buildings etc, so we falsely increased the value of the club by 7 million, and removed bad debt), and of course got the player we wanted.

So Liverpool actually made money from the Johnson deal. Interesting, didn't know that.

tomaussie

I would still leave that business deal reflecting that I'd done business with a Machiavellian or Nelson Muntz.

dogbert27

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ok, so lets put it this way. After our deal was concluded, we were out 18 million pounds. If we had instead gone and bought any other full back in the world for 11 million, how much would we have been out afterwards? 18 million pounds. That 7 from Portsmouth was dead. Whether we bought from them or anyone else, that 7 mllion was never ever coming into Liverpools bank account. By actually doing a deal with them, it favoured both sides accounts. They get to legally write off the debt, we technically have an 18 million pound asset (players count as financial assets just the same as buildings etc, so we falsely increased the value of the club by 7 million, and removed bad debt), and of course got the player we wanted.

Enough of this black and white economic facts mumbo jumbo, you need to be discussing this emotionally man, EMOTIONALLY!!!


To my recollection Chelsea were sniffing around too about buying him back which drove the price up.

Tipsy McSwagger

NukaCola wrote: »

Some people may go over the top on criticism on Johnson but surely everyone can agree that he should be replaced.

Personally I'm happy enough to see him run out his contract here but I think most people are looking at his contribution to the team and his massive wages and see that Johnson is just not value for money anymore which i agree with.

I'm really worried that Rodgers thinks Johnson is a great defender and the first choice left back for the next few seasons.

8-10

I was very happy when we signed Glen Johnson. Was very composed on the ball as a youngster at West Ham then Chelsea and pushed on his attacking game by the time he left Portsmouth. To be honest the only thing he's lacked in his career has been consistency, injuries don't help. I think he was a good defender up to a season and a half ago, and think he's still decent. Unfortunately his wages are being used as a stick to beat him with. Couldn't care less to be honest, he's worth having in the squad

Underpaid Mike

Marca saying this morning we have taken Manquillo on load for 2 years with an option to buy

http://www.marca.com/2014/07/23/futbol/equipos/atletico/1406095294.html

Its a pity because that means Johnson unlikely to be replaced this season

Also looks like the Moreno bid is still very much alive

Sevilla have refused to budge on their £20m valuation of Moreno. Liverpool’s £16m bid remains on the table. #LFC (Andy Hunter)

Sappy404

From @LFCZA

BenEadir

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Marca saying this morning we have taken Manquillo on load for 2 years with an option to buy

http://www.marca.com/2014/07/23/futbol/equipos/atletico/1406095294.html

Its a pity because that means Johnson unlikely to be replaced this season

I think this deal is a very sensible one. It puts pressure on Johnson to perform this season. Lot's of guys in the last year of their contract throw a strop if they aren't offered another mega bucks contract and end up doing the minimum possible/protecting themselves whilst they concentrate on trying to get a deal elsewhere. Having a hungry young RB understudy will prevent the club being held hostage by Johnson. If Johnson plays well and earns a new contract at wages reflective of his age/form it's a win win for everyone but if he's not happy with the contract offered by the club or loses form we have a back up who will hopefully grab his chance with both hands and if he performs we have an option to buy at a sensible price.

A great deal all round.

Ben

hefferboi

Can't actually believe people are defending Johnson. Johnson wouldn't even defend Johnson because Johnson can't fcuking defend!

He used to be good going forward, used to be alright defensively but this season alone he's been absolute muck in every game bar maybe 2 at most where he was average. Maybe Inwas watching different games to ye but every time I saw him he seemed to give away the ball high up the pitch, get caught out of position and looked liked he just didn't give a single fcuk.

I wouldn't have him in the squad if he was paying us to play him, and that's no exaggeration. He's gone to cole/downing/Moses levels of hate for me, where I actually can't bear to look at him strolling around the place anymore.

And I usually give anyone who plays for us all the time in the world to get it right but Johnson just boils my blood after the season he's had.

Soft Falling Rain

hefferboi wrote: »

Can't actually believe people are defending Johnson. Johnson wouldn't even defend Johnson because Johnson can't fcuking defend!

He used to be good going forward, used to be alright defensively but this season alone he's been absolute muck in every game bar maybe 2 at most where he was average. Maybe Inwas watching different games to ye but every time I saw him he seemed to give away the ball high up the pitch, get caught out of position and looked liked he just didn't give a single fcuk.

I wouldn't have him in the squad if he was paying us to play him, and that's no exaggeration. He's gone to cole/downing/Moses levels of hate for me, where I actually can't bear to look at him strolling around the place anymore.

And I usually give anyone who plays for us all the time in the world to get it right but Johnson just boils my blood after the season he's had.

Ah now jaysus. :eek:

Johnson has been frustrating, but the main reason he's been so is because he has shown in brief periods that he clearly still has what it takes to play at this level and play well.

Whereas with the likes of Cole, the chap not only didn't give a bollix, I'd question if he even had any ability left to contribute at this level. Moses, also didn't give a crap and well, was crap anyway.

Never really had a problem with Downing, he eventually knuckled down, he just wasn't good enough in the end.

TBH, I don't think Johnson's problem is lack of trying or care, I just think for whatever reason his head just isn't in it far too often unfortunately.

NabyLadistheman

Sappy404 wrote: »

From @LFCZA

Sort of reminds me of myself

Luckycharms_74

K-9 wrote: »

Time to update the sig, stuck through Suarez through and through, even a couple of pms saying it was terrible behaviour having him as my sig and me a politics mod!

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

You should photoshop a sig containing Jimmy Saville force feeding a goose to produce Foie Gras whilst next to Rolf Harris who's using the flag of Isreal as a wobble board. Might get a better reception.

rob316

Still expecting Moreno to go through, Liverpool playing the waiting game. We will cave and offer £18m and Sevilla will accept. I just wish we hurried up, we can have nearly 10 new players by the close of the window, the longer they have to gel the quicker we hit the ground running this season.

We still need that one world class/top class forward.