Single life as a guy...

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 12:46pm

fergie24 wrote: »

Its funny while on about conversations, having recently come out of a ltr which was also long distance two months ago and finding myself 33, single i have headed back out socialising on the weekends and of course trying to chat up women which has been long time for me in doing so or being approached and chatted up by women.

With in five minutes of chatting i get asked am i married, have i ever been married, have i kids, have i a girlfriend. When i say no to all its followed do i drive a nice car

Is this the norm with women chatting to a 33 year old guy these days?

I can't say that's the norm in Ireland as I'm only one person. However, as someone a few years older than you I can say that I've had the same experience on more than one occasion (in Ireland, not elsewhere). Not so much do I drive a nice car but basically, How much am I earning, how much will I earn in the future. I'm not looking for a relationship at the moment (I need a very long break) and the amount of women in their 30's that bother you when they find you're single is nuts.

LordNorbury · 22-08-2014 12:47pm

fergie24 wrote: »

Its funny while on about conversations, having recently come out of a ltr which was also long distance two months ago and finding myself 33, single i have headed back out socialising on the weekends and of course trying to chat up women which has been long time for me in doing so or being approached and chatted up by women.

With in five minutes of chatting i get asked am i married, have i ever been married, have i kids, have i a girlfriend. When i say no to all its followed do i drive a nice car

Is this the norm with women chatting to a 33 year old guy these days?

Yup, pretty much so, the amount of paranoia and cynicism out there when dating these days, I find as actually remarkable. There is a basis for some of it as well I have to say, as you have a lot of people these days stuck in unhappy relationships, who lack the integrity or courage to leave them, usually citing a mortgage, kids, negative equity or some such excuse.

But I do put a lot of this unhealthy paranoia down to the recession and the last few years of living in this country. It's like there is this perverse culture of fear, suspicion and general negativity still hanging over the whole place, and if you are a single guy and in your 30's, you will usually run straight into it when dating.

Minimix · 22-08-2014 12:59pm

fergie24 wrote: »

Its funny while on about conversations, having recently come out of a ltr which was also long distance two months ago and finding myself 33, single i have headed back out socialising on the weekends and of course trying to chat up women which has been long time for me in doing so or being approached and chatted up by women.

With in five minutes of chatting i get asked am i married, have i ever been married, have i kids, have i a girlfriend. When i say no to all its followed do i drive a nice car

Is this the norm with women chatting to a 33 year old guy these days?

As a woman I think when I'm looking to meet a guy and I'm having a conversation it is nice to know that person is single otherwise you wasting your time. Generally you know when you're talking to someone if they're interested in continuing a conversation which leads to finding out more about that person without basically throwing a questionaire at the guy as soon as you get past hello.

In saying that, that is what I like to happen but I know what you're saying does happen but it happens both ways.

Potatoeman · 22-08-2014 1:06pm

LordNorbury wrote: »

Yup, pretty much so, the amount of paranoia and cynicism out there when dating these days, I find as actually remarkable. There is a basis for some of it as well I have to say, as you have a lot of people these days stuck in unhappy relationships, who lack the integrity or courage to leave them, usually citing a mortgage, kids, negative equity or some such excuse.

But I do put a lot of this unhealthy paranoia down to the recession and the last few years of living in this country. It's like there is this perverse culture of fear, suspicion and general negativity still hanging over the whole place, and if you are a single guy and in your 30's, you will usually run straight into it when dating.

No it was there during the boom too. I find its cetain bars that attract a cetain type of person.

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 1:47pm

Minimix wrote: »

As a woman I think when I'm looking to meet a guy and I'm having a conversation it is nice to know that person is single otherwise you wasting your time. Generally you know when you're talking to someone if they're interested in continuing a conversation which leads to finding out more about that person without basically throwing a questionaire at the guy as soon as you get past hello.

In saying that, that is what I like to happen but I know what you're saying does happen but it happens both ways.

I sure it's not what you meant, but when you say you're wasting your time having a conversation with someone who's taken, that's exactly the kind of thing that frightens many of my male single friends. It's almost as if there's only one agenda and no time for a little innocent banter.

I think it's fair enough to ask if you're single or even if someone has kids or ties. However, when women start asking you for details about earnings, what you owe and what kind of success are you looking at in the the future it's creepy. I do have one or two male friends that are single and they would be more in the mood for a relationship. They never ask women about money, cars, or houses.

When i"ve been out else where outside of Ireland (Britain, Germany) I'm generally not hassled, plus the conversation is lighter at the start as it should be. I'm out to relax not to be sized up as a commodity.

Potatoeman · 22-08-2014 2:04pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I sure it's not what you meant, but when you say you're wasting your time having a conversation with someone who's taken, that's exactly the kind of thing that frightens many of my male single friends. It's almost as if there's only one agenda and no time for a little innocent banter.

I think it's fair enough to ask if you're single or even if someone has kids or ties. However, when women start asking you for details about earnings, what you owe and what kind of success are you looking at in the the future it's creepy. I do have one or two male friends that are single and they would be more in the mood for a relationship. They never ask women about money, cars, or houses.

When i"ve been out else where outside of Ireland (Britain, Germany) I'm generally not hassled, plus the conversation is lighter at the start as it should be. I'm out to relax not to be sized up as a commodity.

Sometimes when people in a relationship are out with their friends they dont bring up that they have a partner as they wouldnt hold the attention of a single person looking to meet someone. Its not that they would run a mile but they wouldnt spend half he night chatting them up. Its usually when they are out with single friends that are looking to meet someone.

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 2:29pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Sometimes when people in a relationship are out with their friends they dont bring up that they have a partner as they wouldnt hold the attention of a single person looking to meet someone. Its not that they would run a mile but they wouldnt spend half he night chatting them up. Its usually when they are out with single friends that are looking to meet someone.

That's completely understood and I do not in any way have a problem with that. It's just a certain vibe out there that has made a lot of unattached men in their 30's and 40's very wary. Literally is it me or my Money/Status she's interested in.

realgirl · 22-08-2014 2:34pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It's just a certain vibe out there that has made a lot of unattached men in their 30's and 40's very wary. Literally is it me or my Money/Status she's interested in.

It's probably obvious fairly fast where her interest lies based on whatever she's asking/ talking to you about

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 2:43pm

realgirl wrote: »

It's probably obvious fairly fast where her interest lies based on whatever she's asking/ talking to you about

Yes, it is pretty obvious. The last 4 women that have approached me only one appeared to be geniune. I have one friend that uses this to his advantage greatly (which I and other friends of his highly disapprove) However, for anyone genuine when it comes to relationships, it's very depressing. I'm off the market for now but I am wondering if I will ever return.

Minimix · 22-08-2014 3:27pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I sure it's not what you meant, but when you say you're wasting your time having a conversation with someone who's taken, that's exactly the kind of thing that frightens many of my male single friends. It's almost as if there's only one agenda and no time for a little innocent banter.

I think it's fair enough to ask if you're single or even if someone has kids or ties. However, when women start asking you for details about earnings, what you owe and what kind of success are you looking at in the the future it's creepy. I do have one or two male friends that are single and they would be more in the mood for a relationship. They never ask women about money, cars, or houses.

When i"ve been out else where outside of Ireland (Britain, Germany) I'm generally not hassled, plus the conversation is lighter at the start as it should be. I'm out to relax not to be sized up as a commodity.

I meant wasting my time in the context of looking to meet a guy, as in there's no point having the type of conversation you'd have with someone who's chatting you up or vice versa with a guy who's in a relationship. I have no problem chatting to men who are in relationships, the majority of nights out I have are with couples. I personally am not at all the type of girl to through direct questions at a guy as I expect not to be the receiver of the same type of questions in the first few minutes of conversation with someone.

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 3:40pm

Minimix wrote: »

I meant wasting my time in the context of looking to meet a guy, as in there's no point having the type of conversation you'd have with someone who's chatting you up or vice versa with a guy who's in a relationship. I have no problem chatting to men who are in relationships, the majority of nights out I have are with couples. I personally am not at all the type of girl to through direct questions at a guy as I expect not to be the receiver of the same type of questions in the first few minutes of conversation with someone.

Again Understood. I was just making the point that in a different context there are certain women who regard men as a waste of time if, (1) they're not single (2) They have some attachment. Kids seem to be a big no no for some (3) That they have money.

That Friend of mine that takes advantage of those women that come up to him is broke and basically has no assets. However he does dress well and is well educated, He's had great nights with ladies and all is going well until they find out he's broke (not in debt mind, just broke) They go from being very interested to not returning calls in seconds.

Of course there are males of the species that have just as undesirable traits as well, but that's not my area of interest.

Potatoeman · 22-08-2014 3:50pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Yes, it is pretty obvious. The last 4 women that have approached me only one appeared to be geniune. I have one friend that uses this to his advantage greatly (which I and other friends of his highly disapprove) However, for anyone genuine when it comes to relationships, it's very depressing. I'm off the market for now but I am wondering if I will ever return.

I think this is more prominent in certain bars, that have a certain crowd. Bar are not really great places to meet someone.

Asking if someone has a job is okay but not what they make. In your thirties people are looking to settle down so I dont see looking for someone with a job as such an issue.

astonaidan · 22-08-2014 3:52pm

wivy wrote: »

OMG! go for it!
how often does 'the spark' happen between two people? rarely!
yeah there will be 'hot' women in canada but nothing will top that spark!
go for it or you'll regret it my friend

Haha I feel I can add a few off ye to the list off people im failing in this situation, my friends are forever at me to go after her more

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 4:02pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Asking if someone has a job is okay but not what they make. In your thirties people are looking to settle down so I dont see looking for someone with a job as such an issue.

I can see the point to a certain Extent, I would never inquire about a woman's work or financial status outside of general conversation. However, if I turned things around and asked women the direct questions I've been asked I'd get a slap or they call me every name under the sun.

Now it does have to be said this is just some women, obviously in my experience most women are not like that. But the normal women won't aggressively chat you up either.

Potatoeman · 22-08-2014 4:40pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I can see the point to a certain Extent, I would never inquire about a woman's work or financial status outside of general conversation. However, if I turned things around and asked women the direct questions I've been asked I'd get a slap or they call me every name under the sun.

Now it does have to be said this is just some women, obviously in my experience most women are not like that. But the normal women won't aggressively chat you up either.

Going through a personal checklist is abit odd and how do they know you are telling the truth anyway?

I think its reflective of them wanting to settle down and not wanting to waste time. Its a complete turn off for most guys though.

Minimix · 22-08-2014 6:15pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Going through a personal checklist is abit odd and how do they know you are telling the truth anyway?

I think its reflective of them wanting to settle down and not wanting to waste time. Its a complete turn off for most guys though.

This is not just a problem for guys, I know from experience that a lot of guys ask your name and the next question is, what do you work at?
It's so obvious they're instantly weighing you up on your job and potentially the positives and negatives your job have for them. I find it a real turn off when guys ask this as soon as they meet you.

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 6:38pm

Minimix wrote: »

This is not just a problem for guys, I know from experience that a lot of guys ask your name and the next question is, what do you work at?
It's so obvious they're instantly weighing you up on your job and potentially the positives and negatives your job have for them. I find it a real turn off when guys ask this as soon as they meet you.

Have to ask where do you meet these men? None of my friends looking for relationships would do such a thing for the simple reason that women would run a mile from them. Plus it's real meat market Territory, weighting up anyone male or female by what they do or earn is just wrong.

That's also the problem I have, even when I'm out with male friends just for a quiet pint, (late 30's, early 40's) you'd be bothered by women wanting to chat. We really wouldn't be in the mood. (as you get older the drive is still there but you know the probable hassle) You'd be polite but within 5 minutes they're going on about relationships, money and work prospects in the future. We just want to talk about Tubbs poor hosting of the Late Late! That's why we try to get one female friend out with us as that seems to keep them away!

However, I do know male idiots that are that blunt, but they always seem to be in relationships. Again personal observations, and perhaps I'm just looking at the world from my own little bubble.

Minimix · 22-08-2014 6:56pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Have to ask where do you meet these men? None of my friends looking for relationships would do such a thing for the simple reason that women would run a mile from them. Plus it's real meat market Territory, weighting up anyone male or female by what they do or earn is just wrong.

That's also the problem I have, even when I'm out with male friends just for a quiet pint, (late 30's, early 40's) you'd be bothered by women wanting to chat. We really wouldn't be in the mood. (as you get older the drive is still there but you know the probable hassle) You'd be polite but within 5 minutes they're going on about relationships, money and work prospects in the future. We just want to talk about Tubbs poor hosting of the Late Late! That's why we try to get one female friend out with us as that seems to keep them away!

However, I do know male idiots that are that blunt, but they always seem to be in relationships. Again personal observations, and perhaps I'm just looking at the world from my own little bubble.

That's the reaction I have too- to run a mile. I find it so tactless and rude. Good to know there are still some guys who don't act like this as I seem to come across it a lot, usually in pubs.

Potatoeman · 22-08-2014 7:17pm

I dont see anything wrong with asking someone about their job. It doesnt mean you are sizing someone up, its a pretty casual thing to ask. If you dont want to talk about it steer the conversation in a different direction.

Pubs are social places too though there is nothing wrong with a quite pint, they are places to meet people. I enjoy chatting to randomers, it gives you other peoples views and you talk about other topics you might not with friends.

Wibbs · 22-08-2014 7:27pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

I dont see anything wrong with asking someone about their job. It doesnt mean you are sizing someone up, its a pretty casual thing to ask.

That would be my take too P. It can be cultural too. Irish people tend to ask "and what do you do for a living" pretty early on in a conversation regardless of the gender involved. If anything going by my experiences I'd say more blokes will ask other blokes than women will ask blokes. Other cultures may wait until more intimacy is reached and info is exchanged before the job thing comes up. I noticed it less among Spaniards and Italians for example, but maybe that was just the people I was meeting?

ancapailldorcha · 22-08-2014 7:30pm

Wibbs wrote: »

That would be my take too P. It can be cultural too. Irish people tend to ask "and what do you do for a living" pretty early on in a conversation regardless of the gender involved. If anything going by my experiences I'd say more blokes will ask other blokes than women will ask blokes. Other cultures tend to wait until more intimacy and info is exchanged before the job thing comes up.

I get it over here as well. It's something the average person devotes 40+ hours per week to so it can be a significant part of one's identity and it makes sense to be one of the first questions you'd ask someone you're getting to know.

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 7:33pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

I dont see anything wrong with asking someone about their job. It doesnt mean you are sizing someone up, its a pretty casual thing to ask. If you dont want to talk about it steer the conversation in a different direction.

Pubs are social places too though their is nothing wrong with a quite pint, they are places to meet people. I enjoy chatting to randomers, it gives you other peoples views and you talk about other topics you might not with friends.

It's not really asking about what someone works at, it's more a case of how it's asked and pushed artificially into a conversation. Again it's unsettling, of course you can steer the conversation away from that area but why should you have to? (plus sometimes it's actually hard to do because they keep coming back to the subject.)

Pubs are both for the quiet pint and places to meet people, usually you can work out which is which fairly easily. It like when 3 or 4 girls are out for a drink and a chat and some dim individuals come over trying to chat them up and the women are too polite to directly tell them to go away, but at the same time are giving loads of signals that they're not welcome, yet those type of fellas keep at it.

It's the same for me and one or two of my friends. You don't want to be rude but you don't want to be talking about work, money or indeed relationships, you just want to relax. Usually you just move to another pub but then you get these individuals saying they'll come too. Tricks have been developed how to deal with the problem but I'm not giving them out here:D Ultimately you don't want to be hurting anyone's feelings no matter who they are.

Potatoeman · 22-08-2014 7:43pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It's not really asking about what someone works at, it's more a case of how it's asked and pushed artificially into a conversation. Again it's unsettling, of course you can steer the conversation away from that area but why should you have to? (plus sometimes it's actually hard to do because they keep coming back to the subject.)

Pubs are both for the quiet pint and places to meet people, usually you can work out which is which fairly easily. It like when 3 or 4 girls are out for a drink and a chat and some dim individuals come over trying to chat them up and the women are too polite to directly tell them to go away, but at the same time are giving loads of signals that they're not welcome, yet those type of fellas keep at it.

It's the same for me and one or two of my friends. You don't want to be rude but you don't want to be talking about work, money or indeed relationships, you just want to relax. Usually you just move to another pub but then you get these individuals saying they'll come too. Tricks have been developed how to deal with the problem but I'm not giving them out here:D Ultimately you don't want to be hurting anyone's feelings no matter who they are.

Thats crossing the line to pushy which is different. I'd also put asking salary questions as way too personal for casual conversations.

Minimix · 22-08-2014 7:59pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It's not really asking about what someone works at, it's more a case of how it's asked and pushed artificially into a conversation. Again it's unsettling, of course you can steer the conversation away from that area but why should you have to? (plus sometimes it's actually hard to do because they keep coming back to the subject.)

Yes, that's what I mean. I understand it's an obvious question to ask and someone which is a big part of anyone's life. The issue I have is when it's basically asked second to your name and when you can see that the guy is more or less makin his mind up about you depending on what your job is.

Onthe3rdDay · 22-08-2014 8:02pm

Minimix wrote: »

Yes, that's what I mean. I understand it's an obvious question to ask and someone which is a big part of anyone's life. The issue I have is when it's basically asked second to your name and when you can see that the guy is more or less makin his mind up about you depending on what your job is.

And I have almost exactly the same problem with certain women (they will try and work out however if it looks like you're going to progress forward) No real interest in someone in an okay job but standing still.

dellas1979 · 22-08-2014 8:49pm

LordNorbury wrote: »

Yup, pretty much so, the amount of paranoia and cynicism out there when dating these days, I find as actually remarkable. There is a basis for some of it as well I have to say, as you have a lot of people these days stuck in unhappy relationships, who lack the integrity or courage to leave them, usually citing a mortgage, kids, negative equity or some such excuse.

But I do put a lot of this unhealthy paranoia down to the recession and the last few years of living in this country. It's like there is this perverse culture of fear, suspicion and general negativity still hanging over the whole place, and if you are a single guy and in your 30's, you will usually run straight into it when dating.

Hi guys,

Single lady in her mid-30s here. I find this too (from guys). So, looks like the shoes fit on both feet here.

So, anyways, what do ye work as?

(hehehee

PS: Yes a lot of women out there unfortunately see a certain job and money and things as like a social status (and probably more so in your 30s). But, from my experience, if a man has money, and isnt a nice person, no amount of money is going to make him a nice person.

ancapailldorcha · 22-08-2014 8:58pm

dellas1979 wrote: »

PS: Yes a lot of women out there unfortunately see a certain job and money and things as like a social status (and probably more so in your 30s). But, from my experience, if a man has money, and isnt a nice person, no amount of money is going to make him a nice person.

I don't they're too bothered about personality if they're prioritizing a potential partner's salary.

dellas1979 · 22-08-2014 9:14pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't they're too bothered about personality if they're prioritizing a potential partner's salary.

Too true. But I guess what Im trying to say is that it happens to females too.
I think anyone in their 30s (male or female) are automatically pre-judged on (materialistic) things like salary, career, cars, house. Basically, materialistic things that make you "appear" a good catch or successful.

And (imo) it shouldnt be like this. Should be about the overall person

ancapailldorcha · 22-08-2014 9:16pm

dellas1979 wrote: »

Too true. But I guess what Im trying to say is that it happens to females too.
I think anyone in their 30s (male or female) are automatically pre-judged on (materialistic) things like salary, career, cars, house. Basically, materialistic things that make you "appear" a good catch or successful.

And (imo) it shouldnt be like this. Should be about the overall person

Oh, absolutely. I suppose it makes sense that it's starting to happen to women give the improving opportunities today's women can avail of.

Daveysil15 · 23-08-2014 8:59am

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I sure it's not what you meant, but when you say you're wasting your time having a conversation with someone who's taken, that's exactly the kind of thing that frightens many of my male single friends. It's almost as if there's only one agenda and no time for a little innocent banter.

When i"ve been out else where outside of Ireland (Britain, Germany) I'm generally not hassled, plus the conversation is lighter at the start as it should be. I'm out to relax not to be sized up as a commodity.

+1. That mentality that you have an agenda or are only after one thing can get really annoying after a while. It has been a long time since I had a bit of innocent banter on a night out in Ireland.

In other places then conversation does tend to be a bit more relaxed and you're not sized up as much. Although it probably depends on the place. I'm in a rural area and tend to socialise in small towns and villages. Maybe its different in the big shmoke or other cities in Ireland.

LordNorbury · 28-08-2014 11:06am

dellas1979 wrote: »

Hi guys,

Single lady in her mid-30s here. I find this too (from guys). So, looks like the shoes fit on both feet here.

So, anyways, what do ye work as?

(hehehee

PS: Yes a lot of women out there unfortunately see a certain job and money and things as like a social status (and probably more so in your 30s). But, from my experience, if a man has money, and isnt a nice person, no amount of money is going to make him a nice person.

I would have thought that traits like being a hard worker, being personable and warm, having a personality and a bit of character about yourself, etc, would have carried a hell of a lot more weight than specifically "what do you do"?!? But it seems I am wrong in that regard. I thought women would often have rated "what do you do" as not up there with other more in your face aspects of your life, such as whether she considers you to be attractive or not and if you have a decent personality in her eyes. I can't understand how anyone could put up with someone who annoys them, or is not attractive to them, but they will overlook these kind of things because of a well paid job, that sounds like pure madness to me...

I think a lot of single people who date these days, and I only really date online so that is all I can relate to at the moment, they don't actually have any kind of a gameplan at all to try to meet someone for a credible relationship and it is usually fairly obvious on a date. Often they are just going through the exact same old motions date after date, they haven't a clue how to flirt and give a guy some signals that they are interested, often you get the exact opposite, then they are taken aback or are often offended when you don't pursue it beyond a first date.

Onthe3rdDay · 28-08-2014 3:57pm

LordNorbury wrote: »

I would have thought that traits like being a hard worker, being personable and warm, having a personality and a bit of character about yourself, etc, would have carried a hell of a lot more weight than specifically "what do you do"?!? But it seems I am wrong in that regard. I thought women would often have rated "what do you do" as not up there with other more in your face aspects of your life, such as whether she considers you to be attractive or not and if you have a decent personality in her eyes. I can't understand how anyone could put up with someone who annoys them, or is not attractive to them, but they will overlook these kind of things because of a well paid job, that sounds like pure madness to me...

It does seem to be the case with many in their Thirties that they decide that they have to get the 2 kids, a house and the car. It's a certain mindset. I have seen couples get together who were barely on speaking terms, not because they were fighting, just because they had very little in common, other than an interest in sex. They felt the pressure by society that these things had to happen, coming mostly in my opinion for the quest for grand children. Once they got married and had a child or two the sex would stop and they would just live together like a not very close brother and sister. It's common enough, we probably all know people like that.

In these cases it does matter how much money you earn and what status you have in a community. Some women won't look at rich people doing dirty (in their opinion) jobs, while a good middle management role with possible progress in the future will be more attractive. (Let's not talk about the fact that there are 10 others going for the same job.)

Over the last few years I've noticed this more and more. I'm now a catch because I do something creative and could earn a lot of money in the future. Girls that would have had no time for me in their 20's now are showing real interest in their 30's. Some of my friends are exactly the same. However, we've all been burned and are very wary. That's the thing, now that relationships are easy enough to come by, we're not that interested any more.

I'm willing to wait for the right person to come along, and if they don't I'm happy as well. I do have an advantage over some that I don't want kids. But I have to be honest, most of my single male friends in their 30's and 40's have no interest in kids either. It might bother them if they never found a partner, but that's not the case when it comes to children. We've all seen our married friends and the lives they live.

tomwaterford · 28-08-2014 10:11pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It does seem to be the case with many in their Thirties that they decide that they have to get the 2 kids, a house and the car. It's a certain mindset. I have seen couples get together who were barely on speaking terms, not because they were fighting, just because they had very little in common, other than an interest in sex. They felt the pressure by society that these things had to happen, coming mostly in my opinion for the quest for grand children. Once they got married and had a child or two the sex would stop and they would just live together like a not very close brother and sister. It's common enough, we probably all know people like that.

In these cases it does matter how much money you earn and what status you have in a community. Some women won't look at rich people doing dirty (in their opinion) jobs, while a good middle management role with possible progress in the future will be more attractive. (Let's not talk about the fact that there are 10 others going for the same job.)

Over the last few years I've noticed this more and more. I'm now a catch because I do something creative and could earn a lot of money in the future. Girls that would have had no time for me in their 20's now are showing real interest in their 30's. Some of my friends are exactly the same. However, we've all been burned and are very wary. That's the thing, now that relationships are easy enough to come by, we're not that interested any more.

I'm willing to wait for the right person to come along, and if they don't I'm happy as well. I do have an advantage over some that I don't want kids. But I have to be honest, most of my single male friends in their 30's and 40's have no interest in kids either. It might bother them if they never found a partner, but that's not the case when it comes to children. We've all seen our married friends and the lives they live.

ive so many friend who are either nearly there or well on there way....and we are only like mid 20s:eek::eek:
why waste your life being essentially miserable

29-08-2014 10:26am

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It does seem to be the case with many in their Thirties that they decide that they have to get the 2 kids, a house and the car. It's a certain mindset. I have seen couples get together who were barely on speaking terms, not because they were fighting, just because they had very little in common, other than an interest in sex. They felt the pressure by society that these things had to happen, coming mostly in my opinion for the quest for grand children. Once they got married and had a child or two the sex would stop and they would just live together like a not very close brother and sister. It's common enough, we probably all know people like that.

In these cases it does matter how much money you earn and what status you have in a community. Some women won't look at rich people doing dirty (in their opinion) jobs, while a good middle management role with possible progress in the future will be more attractive. (Let's not talk about the fact that there are 10 others going for the same job.)

Over the last few years I've noticed this more and more. I'm now a catch because I do something creative and could earn a lot of money in the future. Girls that would have had no time for me in their 20's now are showing real interest in their 30's. Some of my friends are exactly the same. However, we've all been burned and are very wary. That's the thing, now that relationships are easy enough to come by, we're not that interested any more.

I'm willing to wait for the right person to come along, and if they don't I'm happy as well. I do have an advantage over some that I don't want kids. But I have to be honest, most of my single male friends in their 30's and 40's have no interest in kids either. It might bother them if they never found a partner, but that's not the case when it comes to children. We've all seen our married friends and the lives they live.

very well made points!
However it paints a fairly depressing picture too, especially if you are a woman hoping to meet someone to settle down with and have a family. There's no ignoring that biological clock and its a bummer.
I'm so glad I got married young and had 3 kids by the age of 30. Now divorced with kids reared I feel so much freer and with much less of an agenda than a lot of younger woman. I wouldnt like to be back at that stage . Its all changed - more pressure now :-(

Emme · 29-08-2014 1:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

very well made points!
However it paints a fairly depressing picture too, especially if you are a woman hoping to meet someone to settle down with and have a family. There's no ignoring that biological clock and its a bummer.
I'm so glad I got married young and had 3 kids by the age of 30. Now divorced with kids reared I feel so much freer and with much less of an agenda than a lot of younger woman. I wouldnt like to be back at that stage. Its all changed - more pressure now :-(

I am all for women educating themselves to a position where they are independent and self-supporting. However, women should decide as early as possible whether they want children or not and tailor their priorities according to this. If we don't want children then it's fine to focus solely on our careers in our twenties with the idea that someone might come along in time. There's a good chance he won't.

When I was in my early 20s I used to shrug off comments from older relatives telling me I'd better hurry up and meet Mr Right or I would get left on the shelf. I was never worried about being left on the shelf but I did want children. Fast forward a good few years and I have no partner and no children.

I would now give girls in their early 20s similar advice to what I got in my early 20s:

If you want children think about seriously looking for a partner as young as possible. However you have a responsibility to ensure you are in a position to support your family alone if needs be in case you are widowed or your relationship breaks up so do not neglect your education. You may spend some years searching for the right partner and you are most attractive to men in your 20s. The men you have the most fun with aren't necessarily the best material for fatherhood. Consider quieter men, older men and make sure he is kind and caring as opposed to edgy and exciting. A mean man may not make a good father so weed tightwads out early.

If you want children you will have to make sacrifices - you cannot have it all. Do not put finding a partner on hold for the sake of your career if you are doing reasonably well already. Save money instead of spending it on sexy clothes which attract the wrong guys anyway. Learn to screen out bad guys early on. Other women don't always have your best interests at heart so their advice may not always be helpful to you. Older women may see you as competition in the workplace and on the dating scene and might try to sabotage you on both counts. Sometimes the best person to advise you on dating and a strategy to find a suitable partner and father for your children is a man. This could be a male relative or a good male friend.

A woman has a short window of fertility and an even shorter window of time to find a partner to have children with. Do not waste this time. Men can father children into their 50s and beyond and aren't under the same time pressure as you if you want a family. They can start looking for the mother of their children in their 30s or 40s. This is why women have to prioritise their lives differently to men if they want children.

Most important, don't have children with somebody for the sake of it or because time is running out. This is why it is best to start looking early.

This advice may seem biased and archaic but I have considered the opinions from men on this thread and come to the conclusion that men in their early 30s look more favourably on women in their early 20s as opposed to women nearer their own age. They may always be wondering if the girl they met in her 30s is with them because her biological clock is ticking. If they meet a girl in her 20s she is not under the same time pressure so she is with them for the right reasons.

Alternatively consider how difficult it is for everyone in the workplace today. A woman may not get to a position where she is financially independent and able to contribute equally to a relationship financially until she is in her early 30s. At this stage she has a very short time to find a suitable partner to have children with. From what I hear men don't approach women as much these days as they did in the past. This is why some women in their early 30s might seem pushy.

Single life as a guy is a lot easier and less complicated than single life as a woman who wants children.

Potatoeman · 29-08-2014 1:55pm

Emme wrote: »

I am all for women educating themselves to a position where they are independent and self-supporting. However, women should decide as early as possible whether they want children or not and tailor their priorities according to this. If we don't want children then it's fine to focus solely on our careers in our twenties with the idea that someone might come along in time. There's a good chance he won't.

When I was in my early 20s I used to shrug off comments from older relatives telling me I'd better hurry up and meet Mr Right or I would get left on the shelf. I was never worried about being left on the shelf but I did want children. Fast forward a good few years and I have no partner and no children.

I would now give girls in their early 20s similar advice to what I got in my early 20s:

If you want children think about seriously looking for a partner as young as possible. However you have a responsibility to ensure you are in a position to support your family alone if needs be in case you are widowed or your relationship breaks up so do not neglect your education. You may spend some years searching for the right partner and you are most attractive to men in your 20s. The men you have the most fun with aren't necessarily the best material for fatherhood. Consider quieter men, older men and make sure he is kind and caring as opposed to edgy and exciting. A mean man may not make a good father so weed tightwads out early.

If you want children you will have to make sacrifices - you cannot have it all. Do not put finding a partner on hold for the sake of your career if you are doing reasonably well already. Save money instead of spending it on sexy clothes which attract the wrong guys anyway. Learn to screen out bad guys early on. Other women don't always have your best interests at heart so their advice may not always be helpful to you. Older women may see you as competition in the workplace and on the dating scene and might try to sabotage you on both counts. Sometimes the best person to advise you on dating and a strategy to find a suitable partner and father for your children is a man. This could be a male relative or a good male friend.

A woman has a short window of fertility and an even shorter window of time to find a partner to have children with. Do not waste this time. Men can father children into their 50s and beyond and aren't under the same time pressure as you if you want a family. They can start looking for the mother of their children in their 30s or 40s. This is why women have to prioritise their lives differently to men if they want children.

Most important, don't have children with somebody for the sake of it or because time is running out. This is why it is best to start looking early.

This advice may seem biased and archaic but I have considered the opinions from men on this thread and come to the conclusion that men in their early 30s look more favourably on women in their early 20s as opposed to women nearer their own age. They may always be wondering if the girl they met in her 30s is with them because her biological clock is ticking. If they meet a girl in her 20s she is not under the same time pressure so she is with them for the right reasons.

Alternatively consider how difficult it is for everyone in the workplace today. A woman may not get to a position where she is financially independent and able to contribute equally to a relationship financially until she is in her early 30s. At this stage she has a very short time to find a suitable partner to have children with. From what I hear men don't approach women as much these days as they did in the past. This is why some women in their early 30s might seem pushy.

Single life as a guy is a lot easier and less complicated than single life as a woman who wants children.

Well guys have to be very careful getting involved with a woman on a timetable or even anyone that wants kids. Divorce for a man usually means losing the family home, paying support and living in a tiny apartment. Nevermind missing out on seeing his kids.
He has more to lose and its one reason guys run a mile from woman like this.

ancapailldorcha · 29-08-2014 2:02pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Well guys have to be very careful getting involved with a woman on a timetable or even anyone that wants kids. Divorce for a man usually means losing the family home, paying support and living in a tiny apartment. Nevermind missing out on seeing his kids.
He has more to lose and its one reason guys run a mile from woman like this.

I'm not sure if I want to embark on the "wife and kids" route but if I do, I'd want to be living with herself for at least a few years prior to having kids.

Emme · 29-08-2014 2:28pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm not sure if I want to embark on the "wife and kids" route but if I do, I'd want to be living with herself for at least a few years prior to having kids.

This proves the point I made in my earlier post - women need to start looking for a partner early if they want children. This will give them a few years to see if they get on.

walshb · 29-08-2014 2:32pm

Emme wrote: »

I am all for women educating themselves to a position where they are independent and self-supporting. However, women should decide as early as possible whether they want children or not and tailor their priorities according to this. If we don't want children then it's fine to focus solely on our careers in our twenties with the idea that someone might come along in time. There's a good chance he won't.

When I was in my early 20s I used to shrug off comments from older relatives telling me I'd better hurry up and meet Mr Right or I would get left on the shelf. I was never worried about being left on the shelf but I did want children. Fast forward a good few years and I have no partner and no children.

I would now give girls in their early 20s similar advice to what I got in my early 20s:

If you want children think about seriously looking for a partner as young as possible. However you have a responsibility to ensure you are in a position to support your family alone if needs be in case you are widowed or your relationship breaks up so do not neglect your education. You may spend some years searching for the right partner and you are most attractive to men in your 20s. The men you have the most fun with aren't necessarily the best material for fatherhood. Consider quieter men, older men and make sure he is kind and caring as opposed to edgy and exciting. A mean man may not make a good father so weed tightwads out early.

If you want children you will have to make sacrifices - you cannot have it all. Do not put finding a partner on hold for the sake of your career if you are doing reasonably well already. Save money instead of spending it on sexy clothes which attract the wrong guys anyway. Learn to screen out bad guys early on. Other women don't always have your best interests at heart so their advice may not always be helpful to you. Older women may see you as competition in the workplace and on the dating scene and might try to sabotage you on both counts. Sometimes the best person to advise you on dating and a strategy to find a suitable partner and father for your children is a man. This could be a male relative or a good male friend.

A woman has a short window of fertility and an even shorter window of time to find a partner to have children with. Do not waste this time. Men can father children into their 50s and beyond and aren't under the same time pressure as you if you want a family. They can start looking for the mother of their children in their 30s or 40s. This is why women have to prioritise their lives differently to men if they want children.

Most important, don't have children with somebody for the sake of it or because time is running out. This is why it is best to start looking early.

This advice may seem biased and archaic but I have considered the opinions from men on this thread and come to the conclusion that men in their early 30s look more favourably on women in their early 20s as opposed to women nearer their own age. They may always be wondering if the girl they met in her 30s is with them because her biological clock is ticking. If they meet a girl in her 20s she is not under the same time pressure so she is with them for the right reasons.

Alternatively consider how difficult it is for everyone in the workplace today. A woman may not get to a position where she is financially independent and able to contribute equally to a relationship financially until she is in her early 30s. At this stage she has a very short time to find a suitable partner to have children with. From what I hear men don't approach women as much these days as they did in the past. This is why some women in their early 30s might seem pushy.

Single life as a guy is a lot easier and less complicated than single life as a woman who wants children.

Damn sense!

ancapailldorcha · 29-08-2014 2:33pm

Emme wrote: »

This proves the point I made in my earlier post - women need to start looking for a partner early if they want children. This will give them a few years to see if they get on.

I agree with you. The thing is people may develop different opinions in their twenties so someone who gets her degree at 22 may decide she doesn't want children only to change her mind at 29 or vice vearsa. Ideally, if she could be certain at 22 then she can have kids and then prioritise both family and career.

Emme · 29-08-2014 3:34pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I agree with you. The thing is people may develop different opinions in their twenties so someone who gets her degree at 22 may decide she doesn't want children only to change her mind at 29 or vice vearsa. Ideally, if she could be certain at 22 then she can have kids and then prioritise both family and career.

That's what makes it difficult.

I just read over what I wrote and I sound like Susan Patton the Princeton Mom - eek! :eek:

Even if there is some truth there.

Wibbs · 29-08-2014 3:59pm

Emme wrote: »

This proves the point I made in my earlier post - women need to start looking for a partner early if they want children. This will give them a few years to see if they get on.

I dunno E, I can see what you're getting at and it's a simple fact of reproductive biology, however I'd not be nearly so pessimistic regarding the reproductive window for women. Unless a woman has a medical condition that affects her fertility she's pretty much good to go from 16 to 40(one of my grandmothers had her last at 45). Sure it may take longer in the late 30's to get pregnant, but many many women do. And yes risk of birth defects go up with maternal age, but if we were looking for the optimum time there we'd be looking at women from 18 - 22, after 25 the risk graph starts to go up. Increasingly reproductive technology will play a part and even up the differences, or at least give an extra 5 to 10 years of leeway, so a woman could freeze her eggs at 20 and have those kids at 40 or above(if she has the cash of course).

I would agree that if a woman wants a few kids the earlier the start the better.

As for men, yes they don't have a clock ticking to nearly the same degree. However in reality they can have a small enough window too. Few enough men of 45 have the options they may think, after 50 those options thin out massively. If women tend to "peak" at 25, I would say men "peak" damn near exactly ten years later at 35.

ancapailldorcha · 29-08-2014 4:10pm

Wibbs wrote: »

As for men, yes they don't have a clock ticking to nearly the same degree. However in reality they can have a small enough window too. Few enough men of 45 have the options they may think, after 50 those options thin out massively. If women tend to "peak" at 25, I would say men "peak" damn near exactly ten years later at 35.

There does seem to be a "clock" for men as well, but like you say it's not ticking as ominously. Furthermore, a man at 60 who's not extraordinarily wealthy will face severe difficulties in attracting a woman below 35 and she's probably going to be wary of the possibility of having a child with a partner who's nearly twice her age.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-men-have-biological-clocks/

Emme · 29-08-2014 6:03pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno E, I can see what you're getting at and it's a simple fact of reproductive biology, however I'd not be nearly so pessimistic regarding the reproductive window for women. Unless a woman has a medical condition that affects her fertility she's pretty much good to go from 16 to 40(one of my grandmothers had her last at 45). Sure it may take longer in the late 30's to get pregnant, but many many women do. And yes risk of birth defects go up with maternal age, but if we were looking for the optimum time there we'd be looking at women from 18 - 22, after 25 the risk graph starts to go up. Increasingly reproductive technology will play a part and even up the differences, or at least give an extra 5 to 10 years of leeway, so a woman could freeze her eggs at 20 and have those kids at 40 or above(if she has the cash of course).

I would agree that if a woman wants a few kids the earlier the start the better.

As for men, yes they don't have a clock ticking to nearly the same degree. However in reality they can have a small enough window too. Few enough men of 45 have the options they may think, after 50 those options thin out massively. If women tend to "peak" at 25, I would say men "peak" damn near exactly ten years later at 35.

That's all good but if you take into account the time it takes to meet someone, get to know them properly and risk one or two broken relationships in the process it really is better for women to start looking younger. One woman might be lucky and meet her life partner in college and marry at 26. Another might have a few false starts before meeting her life partner at 28 and by the time they are ready she could be 32 when they marry and 33 when she has her first child. All sorts of factors come into account. Men are rightly very cautious now.

Having said that I think that there are more available men for women in their 20s than in the days before divorce. There were very few available men for those of us who left school in the late 80s. Everyone was emigrating and most men over 25 seemed to be married. A fair few of my contemporaries are single and have never been married. For those who didn't want children it's no big deal, but some of us did want children. Some might ask why didn't you go the sperm donor route? That could have been an option but I think a child should have a relationship with his or her Dad.

LordNorbury · 01-09-2014 5:42pm

Emme wrote: »

From what I hear men don't approach women as much these days as they did in the past. This is why some women in their early 30s might seem pushy.

Have to say, I've never found women at that age to be pushy, the one thing I've found that, unlike yourself, they seem to often completely lack a gameplan. I think there is a cut off point when it comes to age, where you stop giving a shít about the fact that you previously wanted kids, and you previously wanted a long term stable thing, and all of that stuff, just speaking for myself as a single guy in his 30's. I used to see myself with 3-4 kids, happily married, I suppose I could easily say that I saw myself playing the role of a solid & reliable family man, but once I hit my mid 30's, it is like my mind went into a completely different mode altogether.

I do hear online stories however, of guys who are dating a girl less than 3 months and start suggesting that they should try for a baby, (I'm actually not joking here, this seems to be not uncommon with some guys in their 30's)...

Daveysil15 · 01-09-2014 6:14pm

Emme wrote: »

This advice may seem biased and archaic but I have considered the opinions from men on this thread and come to the conclusion that men in their early 30s look more favourably on women in their early 20s as opposed to women nearer their own age.

I'm 31 and would much prefer a woman in her late 20's to early 30's. I doubt too many women in their early 20's would be interested in me anyway tbh. Tommy Tiernan said when he turned 40 young women no longer wanted to have sex with him. But he didn't want to have sex with younger women anyway because its like having sex with a salmon; they have too much energy. I'm at the stage now where I just want to have sex with a comfortable chair.

I actually find women my own age more approachable too. They tend to be more laid back and don't have as much of a guard up.

Piliger · 01-09-2014 7:32pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There does seem to be a "clock" for men as well, but like you say it's not ticking as ominously. Furthermore, a man at 60 who's not extraordinarily wealthy will face severe difficulties in attracting a woman below 35 and she's probably going to be wary of the possibility of having a child with a partner who's nearly twice her age.

The OP was raising the issue of life as a single man, as opposed to wanting children. If you want children then don't stay single until you're 60

As a guy of 58 who divorced a while ago .. Firstly what on earth would I want a woman of 35 ? !! FFS ... what a bore ! Men need to grow up as we grow up. You need someone who you can actually talk to about life, not just pop music. About four years ago I dated a 28 yo and sure the sex was good ... but I got bored sh1tless after a few months. I would never date anyone under 45 now.

My only comment to contribute to the thread is this. KEEP YOUR FRIENDS. I cannot stress this enough. It is so easy to allow them to drift away and lose them. Maybe they get married and are busy for years with children. No matter. Stay in touch a couple of times a year. They will come back in time and making new friends is never as satisfying or easy as when we are young.

02-09-2014 7:41am

Piliger wrote: »

The OP was raising the issue of life as a single man, as opposed to wanting children. If you want children then don't stay single until you're 60

As a guy of 58 who divorced a while ago .. Firstly what on earth would I want a woman of 35 ? !! FFS ... what a bore ! Men need to grow up as we grow up. You need someone who you can actually talk to about life, not just pop music. About four years ago I dated a 28 yo and sure the sex was good ... but I got bored sh1tless after a few months. I would never date anyone under 45 now.

My only comment to contribute to the thread is this. KEEP YOUR FRIENDS. I cannot stress this enough. It is so easy to allow them to drift away and lose them. Maybe they get married and are busy for years with children. No matter. Stay in touch a couple of times a year. They will come back in time and making new friends is never as satisfying or easy as when we are young.

agree ! I'm 50, divorced and children reared. I regret nothing. Having them young was great. I have sisters who are now in their 40's with kids in primary school and they're exhausted with all the running around and holding down a job too. Mine are through school, college and both abroad working. I would strongly advise to men as much as women not to put it on the long finger. Think about what you want in the long term. A decade flies by and suddenly you're in your late 30's or mid 40's. The human condition is to find a mate and procreate! You will never find someone who is perfect in every way and thats the trouble now. We all think we will and we keep looking because we have more options than our parents had. OD adds to this - you see people on sites for years!! Maybe they are just unlucky - or maybe they have their long checklist and every box needs to be ticked - be wary of that!

..... and yes..... keep the friends you had from way back. Through all those years, divorce, house moves I kept in touch with about 3 good friends - sometimes once once a year (!) but now we are back in touch all the time. You need people your own age - to share memories and experiences with. Ditto for relationships

Wibbs · 02-09-2014 9:58am

Piliger wrote: »

The OP was raising the issue of life as a single man, as opposed to wanting children. If you want children then don't stay single until you're 60

+1

As a guy of 58 who divorced a while ago .. Firstly what on earth would I want a woman of 35 ? !! FFS ... what a bore !

In fairness a 35 year old woman is hardly a teenybopper and would usually have a fair amount of life experience behind her and it massively depends on the individual. Boring is not particularly age related. Plus I have found over the years engaging with people of different ages(not just dating) is very good for keeping ones own mindset out of ruts, sometimes even dragging you kicking and screaming out of ruts.

My only comment to contribute to the thread is this. KEEP YOUR FRIENDS. I cannot stress this enough. It is so easy to allow them to drift away and lose them. Maybe they get married and are busy for years with children. No matter. Stay in touch a couple of times a year. They will come back in time and making new friends is never as satisfying or easy as when we are young.

+1000 and I have found men aren't usually as good as women for doing this, especially after marriage.

RainyDay · 02-09-2014 10:37am

Deleted User wrote: »

agree ! I'm 50, divorced and children reared. I regret nothing. Having them young was great. I have sisters who are now in their 40's with kids in primary school and they're exhausted with all the running around and holding down a job too. Mine are through school, college and both abroad working. I would strongly advise to men as much as women not to put it on the long finger. Think about what you want in the long term. A decade flies by and suddenly you're in your late 30's or mid 40's. The human condition is to find a mate and procreate! You will never find someone who is perfect in every way and thats the trouble now. We all think we will and we keep looking because we have more options than our parents had. OD adds to this - you see people on sites for years!! Maybe they are just unlucky - or maybe they have their long checklist and every box needs to be ticked - be wary of that!

..... and yes..... keep the friends you had from way back. Through all those years, divorce, house moves I kept in touch with about 3 good friends - sometimes once once a year (!) but now we are back in touch all the time. You need people your own age - to share memories and experiences with. Ditto for relationships

Jon Snow did a series on sex and older people earlier in the year on Channel 4 news. It was funny to see the number of older people who were very keen to have relationships and have sex, but were also very keen to stay living on their own. They were quite happy with their own house or flat, and didn't really want to have to compromise on all the living together, leaving the toilet seat up stuff.

Single life as a guy...

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