Single life as a guy...

LordNorbury

Seriously? wrote: »

Actually I'd contest that, let’s say they're early to mid thirties like the poster; that’s still an age at which a sizable number of women give birth.

Now as to who is in a better position when it comes to deciding who has kids; well that's got to be the woman since they're the only ones who get the call the shots on that score. Because when it comes to reproductive rights women have them and men don’t.

As to if they can financially support having kids, well on that score they are at best no worse off than a male and if we go by recent statistics, then if they're in a professional career then they're likely to be better off than the male counterpart.

When I've discussed this particular aspect of potential parenthood with some women I know as friends, (single women typically in their 30's who are now single, childless and very serious, very driven and very determined about somehow having a child in the not too distant future), the answer invariably these days is, "look you just make it work, you get by, you have support from family and friends, I might not be rich but I'll have the basics and my child will be loved and that is the main thing and to me, that is all that really matters..."

But the starting point every time is: "I just want to have a child", there is almost some sort of a strongly perceived injustice that is often detected, that this has not already happened for them, and then all other considerations get arranged around the core desire to have a child or children.

But as a guy, the starting point for me is always in a much more pragmatic place and a lot less emotional place, I would look at the crippling costs of childcare, the general high cost of living in this country and particularly in Dublin, the downside risks if the child has ill health, in a country with a 3rd world health service, the serious downside risks to me, particularly in this jurisdiction if me and the mother end up splitting up, I'm regulated pretty much overnight to the role of weekend dad with minimal access rights, I may have to go to court to enjoy even these basic rights of access. As a guy, I add up and assess these considerations and unless I meet some utterly amazing woman, I end up just reckoning that it is too much hassle to have kids in the times we are currently living in, and I'm completely grand with that.

NI24

LordNorbury wrote: »

When I've discussed this particular aspect of potential parenthood with some women I know as friends, (single women typically in their 30's who are now single, childless and very serious, very driven and very determined about somehow having a child in the not too distant future), the answer invariably these days is, "look you just make it work, you get by, you have support from family and friends, I might not be rich but I'll have the basics and my child will be loved and that is the main thing and to me, that is all that really matters..."

But the starting point every time is: "I just want to have a child", there is almost some sort of a strongly perceived injustice that is often detected, that this has not already happened for them, and then all other considerations get arranged around the core desire to have a child or children.

But as a guy, the starting point for me is always in a much more pragmatic place and a lot less emotional place, I would look at the crippling costs of childcare, the general high cost of living in this country and particularly in Dublin, the downside risks if the child has ill health, in a country with a 3rd world health service, the serious downside risks to me, particularly in this jurisdiction if me and the mother end up splitting up, I'm regulated pretty much overnight to the role of weekend dad with minimal access rights, I may have to go to court to enjoy even these basic rights of access. As a guy, I add up and assess these considerations and unless I meet some utterly amazing woman, I end up just reckoning that it is too much hassle to have kids in the times we are currently living in, and I'm completely grand with that.

The part about women wanting children and it coming from an emotional place I strongly agree with, but I had to gawk at "3rd world health service". Do you have any concept of what 3rd world really is? Cause I guarantee you it ain't Ireland. Hell, it isn't even the U.S., and our healthcare is years behind Ireland's (in terms of availability towards the poor and working classes). If you feel you're not in a financial place to support children then that's fair enough, but placing part of the blame on what most people in the world would consider top notch healthcare just sounds ludicrous. Obviously I'm an American and an Irish person would know more about their own healthcare system than I would, but from what I've gathered over the years from this site alone, Ireland has it pretty sweet in that regard.

(Btw, hate to start posting here with something so negative, but this literally made me balk)

LordNorbury

NI24 wrote: »

The part about women wanting children and it coming from an emotional place I strongly agree with, but I had to gawk at "3rd world health service". Do you have any concept of what 3rd world really is? Cause I guarantee you it ain't Ireland. Hell, it isn't even the U.S., and our healthcare is years behind Ireland's (in terms of availability towards the poor and working classes). If you feel you're not in a financial place to support children then that's fair enough, but placing part of the blame on what most people in the world would consider top notch healthcare just sounds ludicrous. Obviously I'm an American and an Irish person would know more about their own healthcare system than I would, but from what I've gathered over the years from this site alone, Ireland has it pretty sweet in that regard.

(Btw, hate to start posting here with something so negative, but this literally made me balk)

Well I don't want to go off topic here but I want to respond to the point you've made. As I understand it, the health service in this country is a humongous black hole, and no matter how much money you pump into it, what you get out the other end are hospitals that are barely fit for purpose, that have chronic front line staff shortages, huge waiting lists, and some very serious problems when it comes to A & E, with huge numbers of people on any given day languishing on trollies in crowded corridors. I have a friend who works in a Dublin maternity hospital and the staff morale and the understaffing she describes, I personally consider to be somewhat frightening.

That's only a small part of it for me, the healthcare aspect of it, there are a whole load of other considerations that to me, would leave me thinking that trying to raise a child or children in this country is just too much of a struggle. People I see around me who have kids, middle income couples both earning 40K, with 2-3 kids, are really struggling, they are living a month to month type existence, with hardly any money left to do anything with at the end of the month, after mortgage costs, childcare costs, school costs, and the rest of it are all paid for.

That's just my assessment, that leads me to believe that I would not want to have children in this country, as I currently perceive things. Other factors that I've mentioned above, also feed into that decision such as my age, a potential partners age and the risks of having a child with serious health issues on that basis, then add in the risks of the relationship not working out and being a weekend Dad and all the hassle, financial and emotional hardship that would come with that, and I know plenty of guys my own age in that situation.

Other people are of course entitled to a different view.

Piliger

LordNorbury wrote: »

Other people are of course entitled to a different view.

I certainly do and challenge every single assertion.

LordNorbury

Piliger wrote: »

I certainly do and challenge every single assertion.

Go for it. I've a good friend who was in a relationship with a girl and they had 2 children, his partner and the mother of his child decided she didn't really want him around the place anymore and had him kicked out of the house and moved another guy into the house a few months later. She took him to court for maintenance of two kids and to pay for half the mortgage for the house that she had moved another guy into. This is probably a worst case example of a couple splitting up but you simply can't deny that it is a very common occurrence these days, (a father becoming estranged from his family). It is a well known fact that a guy in this situation (unmarried), in Ireland has no rights whatsoever when it comes to his relationship with his child. You have to go to court to have access to those rights.

Childcare costs in this country are as far as I know the most expensive in the developed world, usually costing more than someone's mortgage every month, if you have two kids, that's twice your mortgage costs every month.

I'm not making this stuff up, why you think I should look at these well known and well accepted risks and realities and then completely ignore them, I'm not too sure...

ancapailldorcha

[QUOTE=LordNorbury;92636097Childcare costs in this country are as far as I know the most expensive in the developed world, usually costing more than someone's mortgage every month, if you have two kids, that's twice your mortgage costs every month.[/QUOTE]

3rd as it happens. Scary.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/21/child-care-costs-compared-britain

LordNorbury

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

3rd as it happens. Scary.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/21/child-care-costs-compared-britain

I thought we were the most expensive, I'd find it hard to believe that we are cheaper than the UK for childcare costs considering that we are pretty mush more expensive for practically everything else, because the cost of doing business here is known to be higher than in the UK, so things like electricity/energy costs, insurance costs (thanks to our claim culture), cost of finance, labour costs, are all known to be higher here than in teh UK, so how we have cheaper childcare cots on the back of higher business costs, cost of renting property, etc. I can't understand. But I don't want to get caught up on any one particular point, in totality, when all factors are fully considered, it is an absolute no brainer for me to not want to have kids in this country. Other people may carry out the same assessment and find themselves in a totally different place, which I would fully respect.

ardmacha

LordNorbury wrote: »

But I don't want to get caught up on any one particular point, in totality, when all factors are fully considered, it is an absolute no brainer for me to not want to have kids in this country. Other people may carry out the same assessment and find themselves in a totally different place, which I would fully respect.

Fair enough to say that you don't want kids. But it is a bit of a cop out to blame the country, one of the top dozen in the world in the UN Human Development Index. Even relationship breakup is less common in Ireland than many places and is a function of the two people involved, not the country.

LordNorbury

ardmacha wrote: »

Fair enough to say that you don't want kids. But it is a bit of a cop out to blame the country, one of the top dozen in the world in the UN Human Development Index. Even relationship breakup is less common in Ireland than many places and is a function of the two people involved, not the country.

I'm not blaming "the country" as such, the high cost of living and the high cost of childcare is directly related to the country I live in. The availability of affordable and decent housing, or in the case of Ireland/Dublin, the unavailability thereof, is directly related to the country I live in, the legal framework that deals with access to my kids (none if I am not married, unless I go to court), is directly related to the country I live in.

Yes I could find someone who I would never split from and live happily ever after, but the downside risks of it panning out the other way are simply too high for me. I would of course reconsider all this if I met someone I could see myself spending my life with, but I don't see a huge amount of that type of happiness going on around me in relation to other couples I know, and I haven't found anything remotely along those lines myself in recent years.

PucaMama

LordNorbury wrote: »

Go for it. I've a good friend who was in a relationship with a girl and they had 2 children, his partner and the mother of his child decided she didn't really want him around the place anymore and had him kicked out of the house and moved another guy into the house a few months later. She took him to court for maintenance of two kids and to pay for half the mortgage for the house that she had moved another guy into. This is probably a worst case example of a couple splitting up but you simply can't deny that it is a very common occurrence these days, (a father becoming estranged from his family). It is a well known fact that a guy in this situation (unmarried), in Ireland has no rights whatsoever when it comes to his relationship with his child. You have to go to court to have access to those rights.

Childcare costs in this country are as far as I know the most expensive in the developed world, usually costing more than someone's mortgage every month, if you have two kids, that's twice your mortgage costs every month.

I'm not making this stuff up, why you think I should look at these well known and well accepted risks and realities and then completely ignore them, I'm not too sure...

id put money on the fact that that woman didnt just decide one day she didnt want him around. remember that even though those childrens parents are broken up maintenance still has to be paid. also, you probably are firmly on your friends side :rolleyes: did you happen to sit down with both before deciding?

LordNorbury

PucaMama wrote: »

id put money on the fact that that woman didnt just decide one day she didnt want him around. remember that even though those childrens parents are broken up maintenance still has to be paid. also, you probably are firmly on your friends side :rolleyes: did you happen to sit down with both before deciding?

I don't want to get too into it all but I personally know that this woman was a total wreck the head and I thought this from the day I met her, a long time before the two of them had any relationship difficulties.

Even if the split had been amicable, he would still have been relying entirely upon the goodwill of his ex partner to be able to have, (in the absence of the court setting out the terms of his future relationship with his children), access to his children. As it happened they had a horrendous split, it could have been dealt with a lot better by both parties but it doesn't change any of the fundamental legal realities on the ground.

This isn't the first time I've heard of children being used as a weapon against a father in the event of a relationship ending, in the absence of fathers enjoying any legal rights whatsoever in relation to their relationship with their children, in Ireland.

As we know in Ireland, many men use this lack of proper legal status concerning fatherhood, to dodge their responsibilities as fathers and at no stage does the state sit down with them and tell them that they must contribute to the costs of rearing their child, so this is not some "anti woman" crusade I am on here with regard to not wanting to risk having kids in the present times.

LordNorbury

LordNorbury wrote: »

Yes I could find someone who I would never split from and live happily ever after, but the downside risks of it panning out the other way are simply too high for me. I would of course reconsider all this if I met someone I could see myself spending my life with, but I don't see a huge amount of that type of happiness going on around me in relation to other couples I know, and I haven't found anything remotely along those lines myself in recent years.

sometimes you need to "feel the fear and do it anyway" and I dont mean throw caution to the wind. If you set yourself up to fail or always see the pitfalls rather than the endless possibilities and happiness that a good relationship and having kids brings, then maybe all your relationships fizzle out because its not as good as you imagined. Relationships take work but anything good takes work and effort.

As a mother who had 3 kids, lost one to cancer, lost my marriage too and reared the other 2 alone - I wouldnt regret the chance I took for one minute. It wasn't easy but I managed. Yes relationships can break down (mine was directly related to the death of my daughter) but having my children who are now both in their 20's was the best thing I ever did. (and just in case you think I dont have a life I do- I'm a professional, I work and I own my house).

Its better not to overthink and over analyse the really important things - go with your gut. There's no guarantees in life. I hope I didn't go off topic here.

Sleepy

I'm quite happily married with two kids but, lets be fair sweetmaggie: it's a hell of a lot easier to "feel the fear and do it anyway" when your genitals ensure that the worst case scenario for you doesn't involve never seeing your kids again or only getting to see them for a few hours a week while some other man raises them with their mother and you have no say in how they go about it.

Potatoeman

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm quite happily married with two kids but, lets be fair sweetmaggie: it's a hell of a lot easier to "feel the fear and do it anyway" when your genitals ensure that the worst case scenario for you doesn't involve never seeing your kids again or only getting to see them for a few hours a week while some other man raises them with their mother and you have no say in how they go about it.

And lose your home but still have to pay for it.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

As a mother who had 3 kids, lost one to cancer,

Ah god SM.

lost my marriage too and reared the other 2 alone - I wouldnt regret the chance I took for one minute. It wasn't easy but I managed. Yes relationships can break down (mine was directly related to the death of my daughter) but having my children who are now both in their 20's was the best thing I ever did. (and just in case you think I dont have a life I do- I'm a professional, I work and I own my house).

Fair play to you. Many could have easily buckled under such intense pressure(I'm sure I would have TBH) but you didn't. Kudos.

Its better not to overthink and over analyse the really important things - go with your gut. There's no guarantees in life. I hope I didn't go off topic here.

No you're right SM. I suppose the difference the guys are talking about is there is more of a risk for them if or when things do go pear shaped. As Sleepy said men as a general rule stand to lose more in such a scenario.

discus

It looks like I'll be single for life. I'm moving into the 30's, with a military life - no bills, girls in a few cities (thank you pof/tinder), tons of travel. I've spent more time abroad this year than in the UK. I have a niggle at the back of my mind, though. I need to decide if I want to stay in the job and be single, or get a city job and hopefully get into an ltr. My job currently dictates whether I can maintain a relationship or not, and looking at some of the other posters here I see that it's not all that easy to find your match these days...

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm quite happily married with two kids but, lets be fair sweetmaggie: it's a hell of a lot easier to "feel the fear and do it anyway" when your genitals ensure that the worst case scenario for you doesn't involve never seeing your kids again or only getting to see them for a few hours a week while some other man raises them with their mother and you have no say in how they go about it.

like everything it depends on the case - no two scenarios are the same. I didn't rear my kids with any other man... end of. And my kids spent every single weekend with their dad cos thats what we agreed - it was always a 50/50 thing. We put the kids first when we broke up - they didn't ask for their parents to break up. Its tough but it can be done in a way that lessens the damage. Again I'm only speaking for myself.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah god SM. :(Fair play to you. Many could have easily buckled under such intense pressure(I'm sure I would have TBH) but you didn't. Kudos.

No you're right SM. I suppose the difference the guys are talking about is there is more of a risk for them if or when things do go pear shaped. As Sleepy said men as a general rule stand to lose more in such a scenario.

thanks Wibbs

Emme

discus wrote: »

It looks like I'll be single for life. I'm moving into the 30's, with a military life - no bills, girls in a few cities (thank you pof/tinder), tons of travel. I've spent more time abroad this year than in the UK. I have a niggle at the back of my mind, though. I need to decide if I want to stay in the job and be single, or get a city job and hopefully get into an ltr. My job currently dictates whether I can maintain a relationship or not, and looking at some of the other posters here I see that it's not all that easy to find your match these days...

It's up to you how you live your life but you are contradicting yourself as regards finding women. You say you have plenty of girls thanks to pof and tinder so why is it difficult for you to meet your match?

I think men and women define "single" differently. Women are single when they haven't got a date, but if they're dating they don't feel "single" for the few hours they're seeing their date even if it doesn't go well. Men may date and sleep with plenty of women over a period of time but still feel "single" until they find the specific woman they want for a LTR.

Discus, are the women you see from pof and tinder one night stands or friends with benefits? Regardless of the situation (again it's your right to choose how you use the service) are you clear with the women concerned that it's a ONS/FWB situation? Some men see dating sites/apps as a way to meet a potential partner, others see them as an online brothel or escort app. Again that's their choice.

If you don't make that clear and you're seeing the same girl in the same city a number of times she may be getting her hopes up and expecting something more from you than you are willing to give. If a woman wants children it is important that she doesn't give much time to a man who doesn't want a LTR with her. Her fertility has a definite shelf life and if she doesn't want to go the single mother route she needs to focus on finding a man who is willing to commit to her and raise a family with her.

It is important for a man not to waste a woman's time if he doesn't want a serious relationship with her. Even if the woman is very young he should take this into consideration.

Potatoeman

Emme wrote: »

It's up to you how you live your life but you are contradicting yourself as regards finding women. You say you have plenty of girls thanks to pof and tinder so why is it difficult for you to meet your match?

I think men and women define "single" differently. Women are single when they haven't got a date, but if they're dating they don't feel "single" for the few hours they're seeing their date even if it doesn't go well. Men may date and sleep with plenty of women over a period of time but still feel "single" until they find the specific woman they want for a LTR.

Discus, are the women you see from pof and tinder one night stands or friends with benefits? Regardless of the situation (again it's your right to choose how you use the service) are you clear with the women concerned that it's a ONS/FWB situation? Some men see dating sites/apps as a way to meet a potential partner, others see them as an online brothel or escort app. Again that's their choice.

If you don't make that clear and you're seeing the same girl in the same city a number of times she may be getting her hopes up and expecting something more from you than you are willing to give. If a woman wants children it is important that she doesn't give much time to a man who doesn't want a LTR with her. Her fertility has a definite shelf life and if she doesn't want to go the single mother route she needs to focus on finding a man who is willing to commit to her and raise a family with her.

It is important for a man not to waste a woman's time if he doesn't want a serious relationship with her. Even if the woman is very young he should take this into consideration.

Not sure what your point is. If your seeing someone that is not in the same country most of the time from the begining of the relationship then you cant jump to the conclusion that its a serious exclusive relationship and should discuss this with you partner if thats what you want. This is especially true of tinder which is primarily a hookup app. He's not responsible for these womens firtility window.

Sleepy

Deleted User wrote: »

like everything it depends on the case - no two scenarios are the same. I didn't rear my kids with any other man... end of. And my kids spent every single weekend with their dad cos thats what we agreed - it was always a 50/50 thing. We put the kids first when we broke up - they didn't ask for their parents to break up. Its tough but it can be done in a way that lessens the damage. Again I'm only speaking for myself.

Yes and no. Obviously it doesn't happen in every case but a father is reliant on the goodwill of the mother to allow him to be a part of his kids life post-separation. In your case, because you're a decent person, you did the best thing for all concerned but, unfortunately (criminally imo), had you decided not to, there was bugger all the kids' father could have done about it.

While a woman risks the father of her children abandoning them completely (the classic dead beat dad scenario), a man risks not only the mother doing a similar runner but also the possibility of her denying him any role in their children's lives and even when access is court-ordered, there's sweet FA a father is able to do should the mother decide to block it while telling the kids that Daddy doesn't want to see them any more.

Our legal system is decades (if not centuries) out of date in this regard.

Yeah online dating makes it so easy to find a match when about 2% of people reply and 95% of them don't type properly. As I've said before, it's obviously my insecurities and lack of confidence coming through. :pac:

SpaceTime

I'm single after a long long relationship broke up and I'm actually quite enjoying it although it's a bit awkward for some things like going for dinner etc

astonaidan

So just having a quick read through the persuing women thread and saw how teasing women shouldnt be done, Id just like to call bs on this, nothing wrong with teasing women, christ id say 90% of conversations I have with people are teasing them why would I not apply it to flirting

DoYouEvenLift

thought some ITT might find this interview interesting, lot of truth to some of the points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMd1kf3OSuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWQgFGeFVXQ

Swoquix

Sick of being single. Had a marriage break up but can't really hack being single.
No friends, no social life, stressed out of it all the time.

Swoquix

Swoquix wrote: »

Sick of being single. Had a marriage break up but can't really hack being single.
No friends, no social life, stressed out of it all the time.

hey u ok?

a lot of us in the same boat so hang in - it's not easy - this time of the year is harder (I find).
but you're not on your own

Gormley85

Swoquix wrote: »

Sick of being single. Had a marriage break up but can't really hack being single.
No friends, no social life, stressed out of it all the time.

You should try meetup.com, seriously you can make some great friends on it

LordNorbury

OP here... Little did I think when I started this thread last June it would last 46 pages! Well, still single for 2014, been on many dates throughout 2014, 4-5 a month, have made some friends in my life this year from the dates I went on but didn't get into anything serious. Not that I'm not open to the idea of a serious relationship but as the years meander by, it seems like a bigger deal as time passes, to get into a serious relationship where commitment is a big expectation and where my life would be somewhat managed in the sense that I would not be free to go on dates or do my own thing.

I suppose the holy grail is finding someone who you will not mind surrendering those things for, which I fully get and understand, but lets just say, for 2014, it hasn't happened this year, not yet anyway and only 12 more days to go! :eek:

ongarboy

Hang in there. A mate of mine turned 40 this year and despaired of ever finding someone and had even come to terms with it not meant to happen for him. Lo and behold, he is now 8 months into a relationship that seems very solid.

Lord Norbury, one thing I'd wonder, you say you've been on 4-5 dates a month (that's over 50 a year). Is that with a different woman every time? Maybe I'm not clued into modern dating but that just seems like an awful lot of dating (even by American standards). I wonder does such volumes become counterproductive at some point. I think I'd go crazy going on so many dates in the hope that each and every one could be "This is it" only to find it subsequently wasn't. I'd wonder then whether my real self would stop coming out on all these dates and instead be replaced by a sales pitch version that somehow kills off any potential chemistry. I'm not saying this is happening to you. i admire your persistence and patience.

stateofflux

if you can't be completely happy on your own. you are f**ked.

ancapailldorcha

LordNorbury wrote: »

OP here... Little did I think when I started this thread last June it would last 46 pages! Well, still single for 2014, been on many dates throughout 2014, 4-5 a month, have made some friends in my life this year from the dates I went on but didn't get into anything serious. Not that I'm not open to the idea of a serious relationship but as the years meander by, it seems like a bigger deal as time passes, to get into a serious relationship where commitment is a big expectation and where my life would be somewhat managed in the sense that I would not be free to go on dates or do my own thing.

I suppose the holy grail is finding someone who you will not mind surrendering those things for, which I fully get and understand, but lets just say, for 2014, it hasn't happened this year, not yet anyway and only 12 more days to go! :eek:

Hi LordNorbury,

Do you mind if I ask if these dates are with people you've met online or in your day-to-day life? I spent ages on OD and got absolutely nowhere.

Kelly06

ongarboy wrote: »

Hang in there. A mate of mine turned 40 this year and despaired of ever finding someone and had even come to terms with it not meant to happen for him. Lo and behold, he is now 8 months into a relationship that seems very solid

Was feeling pretty sorry for myself about being on my own for yet another Christmas, my short marriage broke up just before Christmas two years ago very suddenly. I've been on a roller coaster ever since! Then I read this and it made me smile a little that people can meet someone when they are a bit older! Thanks for the little ray of sunshine !

LordNorbury

ongarboy wrote: »

Hang in there. A mate of mine turned 40 this year and despaired of ever finding someone and had even come to terms with it not meant to happen for him. Lo and behold, he is now 8 months into a relationship that seems very solid.

Lord Norbury, one thing I'd wonder, you say you've been on 4-5 dates a month (that's over 50 a year). Is that with a different woman every time? Maybe I'm not clued into modern dating but that just seems like an awful lot of dating (even by American standards). I wonder does such volumes become counterproductive at some point. I think I'd go crazy going on so many dates in the hope that each and every one could be "This is it" only to find it subsequently wasn't. I'd wonder then whether my real self would stop coming out on all these dates and instead be replaced by a sales pitch version that somehow kills off any potential chemistry. I'm not saying this is happening to you. i admire your persistence and patience.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Hi LordNorbury,

Do you mind if I ask if these dates are with people you've met online or in your day-to-day life? I spent ages on OD and got absolutely nowhere.

Just replying to both of these as the same question was raised about whether dates are all first dates or what the lay of the land is here. I'd generally go on a date a week, these could be just a coffee or a drink or something, it's hard to describe, dating sites for me as like Facebook for strangers, I'd be yapping to women and I don't approach these social interactions as strictly dates, I seem to end up friends with women I meet online, be it on Twitter or POF or Tinder or whatever. Every now and again you meet someone you click with and it'll go somewhere but I have to clarify here, to me, online dating is more about friendships and socialising, than it is about any big expectation of finding love or romance.

I'm not a pick up artist or a serial dater, I just make friends easily and I do believe in keeping your toe in the pond of romance if you are single. I don't really believe in love at first sight and particularly not when it comes to online dating, where I have found myself in love before, it started off as friends or acquaintances and took off from there. Online dating is a very difficult environment to find anything meaningful in when it comes to romance, as it is filled with suspicion and apprehension, nerves, and sometimes paranoia. If you are already on friendly terms with someone (as in they know you and know you are not a nutjob), if there is mutual attraction, then I think a lot of the ground work is often already done.

I have no problem being single though, if I was meant to be with someone right now I'd be with someone.

EDIT: Also I don't think I really set out to 'sell' myself on dates, I'm the same guy on a date as I am in work or in a shop, I'm yappy and personable, hopefully it (dating) hasn't changed me...

PatL23

Out socialising tonight with my friends in the pub . Making my way to the smoking area when some woman looks directly at me out of all my friends and makes a dry heaving motion and laughs with her friends. Normally I have thick skin but I started to get very self conscious.

I told my friends I felt sick and went to the car to get something to settle the stomach. I'm now I'm sitting here debating to myself whether I should go back in.

I can't help how I look for **** sake. I dress well, I make an effort. I don't know what to do. I'm taking this as a sign that I'll never find someone. And if I do they'll probably have no other choice but to settle for me.

LordNorbury

PatL23 wrote: »

Out socialising tonight with my friends in the pub . Making my way to the smoking area when some woman looks directly at me out of all my friends and makes a dry heaving motion and laughs with her friends. Normally I have thick skin but I started to get very self conscious.

I told my friends I felt sick and went to the car to get something to settle the stomach. I'm now I'm sitting here debating to myself whether I should go back in.

I can't help how I look for **** sake. I dress well, I make an effort. I don't know what to do. I'm taking this as a sign that I'll never find someone. And if I do they'll probably have no other choice but to settle for me.

Don't let some drunken trollop get in under your night like that! Get back in there my son and forget about her!

Crimsonred

PatL23 wrote: »

Out socialising tonight with my friends in the pub . Making my way to the smoking area when some woman looks directly at me out of all my friends and makes a dry heaving motion and laughs with her friends. Normally I have thick skin but I started to get very self conscious.

I told my friends I felt sick and went to the car to get something to settle the stomach. I'm now I'm sitting here debating to myself whether I should go back in.

I can't help how I look for **** sake. I dress well, I make an effort. I don't know what to do. I'm taking this as a sign that I'll never find someone. And if I do they'll probably have no other choice but to settle for me.

She sounds like a vile person, they are out there and the thing is, just be glad that this brief encounter is the only time you will ever have to deal with her, whereas she will have to deal with being the horrible person that she is for the rest of her life.

Kelly06

PatL23 wrote: »

Out socialising tonight with my friends in the pub . Making my way to the smoking area when some woman looks directly at me out of all my friends and makes a dry heaving motion and laughs with her friends. Normally I have thick skin but I started to get very self conscious.

I told my friends I felt sick and went to the car to get something to settle the stomach. I'm now I'm sitting here debating to myself whether I should go back in.

I can't help how I look for **** sake. I dress well, I make an effort. I don't know what to do. I'm taking this as a sign that I'll never find someone. And if I do they'll probably have no other choice but to settle for me.

If that was aimed at you (which it may not have been ) that girl is a total bitch ! The neck of her don't let her ruin your night . Get back in there and enjoy yourself . That's comin from a woman by the way !

LordNorbury

Crimsonred wrote: »

She sounds like a vile person, they are out there and the thing is, just be glad that this brief encounter is the only time you will ever have to deal with her, whereas she will have to deal with being the horrible person that she is for the rest of her life.

+100, imagine how pathetic you would have to be to start sneering and laughing at a total stranger in a pub, even her mates probably think she is a total cúnt.

Tigger99

Pat not only was that a pathetic nasty things to (if it was aimed at you) but that type of ugliness on the inside will very soon show on the outside. I'm so angry for you right now. What a wagon. And that's from another woman.

PucaMama

PatL23 wrote: »

Out socialising tonight with my friends in the pub . Making my way to the smoking area when some woman looks directly at me out of all my friends and makes a dry heaving motion and laughs with her friends. Normally I have thick skin but I started to get very self conscious.

I told my friends I felt sick and went to the car to get something to settle the stomach. I'm now I'm sitting here debating to myself whether I should go back in.

I can't help how I look for **** sake. I dress well, I make an effort. I don't know what to do. I'm taking this as a sign that I'll never find someone. And if I do they'll probably have no other choice but to settle for me.

That's so so cruel I've had similar in pubs from men often in groups. Very mean.

John Cherry

PucaMama wrote: »

That's so so cruel I've had similar in pubs from men often in groups. Very mean.

Boo hoo :rolleyes:

PucaMama

John Cherry wrote: »

Boo hoo :rolleyes:

Now now john!

John Cherry

PucaMama wrote: »

Now now john!

Always the wagon on TGC.

PucaMama

John Cherry wrote: »

Always the wagon on TGC.

Aren't you lovely

Littlekittylou

PatL23 wrote: »

Out socialising tonight with my friends in the pub . Making my way to the smoking area when some woman looks directly at me out of all my friends and makes a dry heaving motion and laughs with her friends. Normally I have thick skin but I started to get very self conscious.

I told my friends I felt sick and went to the car to get something to settle the stomach. I'm now I'm sitting here debating to myself whether I should go back in.

I can't help how I look for **** sake. I dress well, I make an effort. I don't know what to do. I'm taking this as a sign that I'll never find someone. And if I do they'll probably have no other choice but to settle for me.

She is certainly no lady. Pay her no heed.

Littlekittylou

John Cherry wrote: »

Always the wagon on TGC.

This is the gentleman's club that behavior is not befitting of a gentleman.

Don't sink to the level of the dry heaving woman. You're better than that.

Pat Mustard

Littlekittylou wrote: »

This is the gentleman's club that behavior is not befitting of a gentleman.

Mod:

Please please don't engage in backseat moderation.

If you have a problem with a post, we would ask you to report it.

Littlekittylou

Sorry mods.

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