Tongue tie

Has anyone chosen to have you child's tongue tie snipped when under 1?

Would be interested in any experiences.

Thanks

cyning

I had my little girls snipped when she was 15 days old: she's 16 weeks now. It was a mild posterior tongue tie but was causing me awful problems feeding and was aggravating her reflux no end. I got a referral from a phn when she was 8 days old and had it done in Limerick. Health insurance covered the full cost. The doc in the hospital told me she had no tongue tie... A lot of docs and phns mightn't pick up on it.

My appt was at 3pm. Doc got slightly delayed so he saw her at 340. He explained everything to me. Put his fingers in her mouth and she started to bawl. That was reassuring in a way. He then snipped it with a scissors: there was no extra crying or wailing so it obviously didn't hurt her. Small bit of blood and it was all done. He went away so I fed Her at that stage and he came back to make sure she fed OK and then we got to go home. The relief I felt was instantaneous, and improved massively.

Afterwards I rubbed a gloved finger under her tongue a few times a day to stop it reattaching.

Honestly I have zero regrets with getting it done. It was simple and straightforward.

Thanks for the response. My lo is getting his tongue tie cut next week. I think I will be in a worse state than him.

How Strange

Best of luck

It baffles me why they stopped snipping it in the maternity hospitals. Apparently in the coombe one consultant used to visit the wards and check the tongues off all the newborns and snip any tongue tie she found. She only retired recently and no one else does it there now. Now it seems the general policy is to refuse to acknowledge it even exists.

My daughter had a tie which I could feel when she was feeding. I brought her to a gp in Glasthule for an assessment and he'd have snipped if necessary but he said it was very slight and it would loosen with time. She couldn't hold a modern soother in her mouth for about 6 months. I used to buy the old fashioned rubber ones. She never stuck her tongue past her lower lip and then I noticed one morning that she was also lip tied.

Thankfully the tongue tie loosened and all of a sudden she was sticking her tongue out. I showed my dentist photos of the lip tie and as she had two front teeth already he said it didn't seem to affect her teeth so it should be ok in the long run.

wmpdd3

my 30 month old had finally been diagnosed with a tongue tie.

I have been saying it since he was born, he couldn't feed etc.

I have an appointment with a doc in Clonmel in 2 months time, no idea how the doc is going to this as O is pretty terrified of docs this stage.

it was only when the slt person asked him to stick his tongue out that it was spotted. it seems to be another reason why he doesn't speak.

cyning

Is it Justin Roche you've been referred to? He seems to be the most experienced in the country from every thing I've read. I think over the age of one they need to do it under a general anaesthetic?

vibe666

We had our daughter done after 3 weeks of excruciating and very difficult breast feeding. It was very very mild when she was born, but got worse every day until she was snipped.

The difference was immediate and extraordinary and it's the only reason we were able to keep breast feeding, not just because of the immense pain (worse than giving birth), but due to how difficult it was for her to get a decent feed.

She cried longer and harder getting into her car seat on the day than she did during the procedure and was feeding perfectly literally one minute later.

Not a single regret, and we're utterly baffled how it seems to have turned into some kind of hush hush underground movement.

Jerrica

Tongue tie seems to be incredibly common. What kinds of things should you look for?

pwurple

Seems common enough, i know a few dentists around here who snip tongue and lip tie as well.

cyning

Jerrica wrote: »

Tongue tie seems to be incredibly common. What kinds of things should you look for?

Sore nipples! Seriously breastfeeding should not hurt. My little girl had a mild posterior tie but because she was my second I knew it wasn't right. With a posterior tie it has to be felt rather than seen. An anterior tie you can see the frenulum on the tongue is much longer than normal and baby might not be able to stick tongue out or might have a heart shaped tongue. You will also hear baby gulping in air because the latch is poor. It can cause problems with solids and speech for some children.

The problem with tongue tie is that it was considered not to cause problems for so long that they weren't recognised then. I think one dentist in Cork stopped taking referrals for tongue ties last year because they were taking over his whole business.

My little girl was checked by doc in hosp but I was told no tongue tie. Had it snipped in UHL then.

Suucee

My nieces baby has tongue tie. Its as plain as day you can see it when he cry's and his tongue is heart shaped. She doesn't breast feed though but should she still look in to getting it snipped. Does it affect their speech later on. he also cant seem to suck a soother very well. He's 8 weeks old.

January

Two of my children have tongue tie. With Ellen she has no problems, but Luke seems to have a lot of trouble feeding... I might ask PHN for a referral to see what the story is.

cyning

I'd err on the side of snipping myself: over the age of one I'm almost certain it's a general anaesthetic wheras before they don't so it's simpler. No harm to get it checked out.

How Strange

My husbands aunt was told by a consultant in Holles St in 80's that snipping tongue tie was barbaric and inflicted unnecessary pain on a baby as it doesn't affect anything. Her daughters tongue tie must not have been too bad as she breastfed her for 2 years.

Our neighbours daughter has very obvious tongue tie. She's 7 or 8 now but her pronunciation is affected as are her teeth.

vibe666

Every feed for the 3 weeks before the snip was excruciatingly painful and lasted at least two hours, sometimes more, so it was a never ending cycle of pain for my wife and frustrated feeding for our daughter.

Directly after the snip, the pain went from a solid 9 to a 6 and down to 40 minutes and within a couple of days they were 15-20 minutes each and down to a 3 on the pain scale.

She honestly made more noise when we put her in the car seat, NO need for anaesthetic, just a quick 5 second procedure and then straight on the boob and she's never looked back and she's the healthiest, tubbiest little thing you ever saw!

vibe666

http://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/the-ties-that-bind-when-your-baby-is-tonguetied-30419373.html

How Strange

Unfortunately we have the lowest breastfeeding rates in Europe so the general medical community don't see a need to snip at birth. I don't think tongue tie affects babies being fed from bottles as much as breastfed babies. Doing it when they're born us the quickest, cheapest for the health system and least painful for the baby. The coombe's policy is to deny it exists even if you go to see the lactation consultant with tie related feeding problems. Thankfully my daughters required no action but it was frustrating.

vibe666

How Strange wrote: »

Unfortunately we have the lowest breastfeeding rates in Europe.

I've also read that we manufacture most of the baby formula in Europe too, so I imagine the companies involved had something to do with that, along with the church at one time or another, to actively discourage breast feeding.

pwurple

The church is pro-breastfeeding. Both in the actual church and as a (albeit flawed) method of natural family planning.

Certainly there is a lot of formula manufactured here, but formula companies don't train midwives or doctors.

I would guess that it isn't routinely done because there is a general swing away from routinely doing things that involve cutting... like circumcision, episiotomy etc, unless there is a very clear need or a specific request for it.

That being said, CUMH checked both of my babies several times each for tongue and lip tie when I was there... When newest baby was born she was checked a few minutes after she was born by the midwife who delivered her. She also showed the student midwife how to check and what to look for, so then the student checked. Another two people checked her on the ward afterwards... I think a nursery nurse and another midwife? Then also the midwife discharging us and a doctor checked. I was having difficulty, but the problem is with my anatomy, rather than the baby. But I can't fault the number of checks. That was 6 times by various people for lip and tongue tie in the space of the short 24 hours I was there, so maybe it's a hospital thing?

Tombo2001

wmpdd3 wrote: »

my 30 month old had finally been diagnosed with a tongue tie.

I have been saying it since he was born, he couldn't feed etc.

I have an appointment with a doc in Clonmel in 2 months time, no idea how the doc is going to this as O is pretty terrified of docs this stage.

it was only when the slt person asked him to stick his tongue out that it was spotted. it seems to be another reason why he doesn't speak.

The doctor in Clonmel is really good, has a good manner with kids (in our experience).

Tombo2001

How Strange wrote: »

Best of luck

It baffles me why they stopped snipping it in the maternity hospitals. Apparently in the coombe one consultant used to visit the wards and check the tongues off all the newborns and snip any tongue tie she found. She only retired recently and no one else does it there now. Now it seems the general policy is to refuse to acknowledge it even exists.

My daughter had a tie which I could feel when she was feeding. I brought her to a gp in Glasthule for an assessment and he'd have snipped if necessary but he said it was very slight and it would loosen with time. She couldn't hold a modern soother in her mouth for about 6 months. I used to buy the old fashioned rubber ones. She never stuck her tongue past her lower lip and then I noticed one morning that she was also lip tied.

Thankfully the tongue tie loosened and all of a sudden she was sticking her tongue out. I showed my dentist photos of the lip tie and as she had two front teeth already he said it didn't seem to affect her teeth so it should be ok in the long run.

My understanding is that because it is not an ailment, or medical condition, per se, it is not treated by the regular maternity hospitals or by GPs, and not something thats on the 'checklist' that the public health nurses have.

The issue with tongue tie though is that it can obviously restrict feeding and place huge pressure on the mother if she is breast feeding. However my guess is that a lot of public health nurses would not think to check for it, even if the baby is not putting on sufficient weight.

vibe666

an article from 2011, but it seems pretty clear Ireland has a vested interest in baby formula: http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/jun/30/ireland-economic-recovery

Baby food is another top food export. Ireland is the No 1 exporter of baby formula in the world – did you know Aptamil comes from Ireland? One in seven children in the world drink products manufactured in Ireland by Danone, Pfizer and Abbott. And by the time Danone finishes off a €50m investment in county Cork, that figure should be one in five.

that 2nd bold part is even scarier when you take away the 40% of children worldwide that are EBF until at least 6 months.

when we had our son in 2011 in holles st. they were giving sma "feeding packs" with formula and pamphlets etc. to all the new mothers and then not long after, everyone was told that we shouldn't switch formula once a baby had started on one as it could upset their stomachs. one of the nurses told us that they get regular deliveries of these packs from sma and they were handed out to all the new mothers.

we were the only ones breast feeding the whole time we were there and there was almost no support other than a very rough foreign nurse trying to shove our sons face onto my wifes breast a few times. there was no lactation consultant available, but i don't know if that was just "not available" or "not there at all".

even when we got a consultant out to the house at the time, there was no mention of tongue tie or anything like that and after failing to get him to feed successfully from the breast, my wife expressed for a full 3 months so he could still get her breast milk via a bottle, which he seemed to have much less trouble with.

in december last year in the rotunda when our daughter was born there were posters on the wall about breast feeding and we thought things had improved, but although the enthusiasm was a lot better on the part of the nurses, they didn't seem to have had much training in the area other than the very basics and again, there was no lactation consultant available, although it was friday evening and we were gone by sunday afternoon so it could have been that, but women do have babies 7 days a week, not just weekdays 9-5.

we got a consultant out from the la leche league the day after we got home from the hospital and she diagnosed a very mild TT, but "nothing to worry about" ended up being a major issue by 3 weeks as it grew much thicker and more pronounced and we had to get it snipped then as my wife was in bits feeding.

incidentally, she had a look at our son who was two by that stage and confirmed the TT there as well, so if we had known about it, we could have saved ourselves a world of hurt with him getting very very sick all through the first two years of his life and we are almost certain a lot of it was down to switching from expressed BM to formula.

as for the church and breast feeding, you'll find that it goes along with the whole shaming of irish people and making them see themselves and their bodies as sinful and dirty.

in 1981 britain (who didn't have a great track record for breast feeding themselves) still had double the percentage of breast feeding mothers than ireland, and that wasn't for no reason.

there was a long period in this country where the church oversaw every aspect of irish life from birth to death and a new pope who is a lot more friendly to breastfeeding (and everything else) isn't going to be able to undo the damage done by the church over many decades in just a couple of years, even though he is making moves in the right direction, he still has a lot of opposition.

an interesting article about it here: http://www.ucd.ie/pages/97/rickard.html

cyning

The problem isn't people not checking is that they aren't properly checking or don't know how to... I was told more than once there was no tongue tie. Midwives, doctors, one phn. She did.

Tombo2001

cyning wrote: »

The problem isn't people not checking is that they aren't properly checking or don't know how to... I was told more than once there was no tongue tie. Midwives, doctors, one phn. She did.

I know its a wider point, but is there a thing with some medical people making their minds up on a diagnosis before they've even checked.

For example a Public Health Nurse just deciding that the breast feeding isnt working, and even if PHN sees the tongue tie they overlook it.

How Strange

There's an article in the parenting section of the Irish times today about tongue tie. On the online version anyway sandwiched between two articles on breastfeeding so you'd almost miss it. It's good to see it get mentioned and it makes reference to the wider implications of tongue tie beyond babies feeding.

CramCycle

Our son had a tongue tie that was missed by nearly everyone, the nurse showing me how to hold him while bathing noticed it and recommended the Dr. in Clonmel. Apparently alot of doctors won't touch it as their insurance does not cover it. There was another doctor/dentist near Maynooth who done it but his secretary told me they were no longer covered.

As soon as it was done, his latching improved dramatically (within 48 hours). He let one wail when it happened but was happy a second later. He was more annoyed with the doctor being near his mouth than the snip.

According to the doctor, it can affect speech and kissing in some people although not all. There is a small chance of it regrowing but the stats were showing that it was unlikely, can't remember the number now.

It was 150euro but health insurance refunded it. Glad we got it done, it made feeding alot easier and him alot happier in my opinion. I had never heard of anyone with it now every fifth parent seems to have a child with it.

cyning

I think theres a few reasons for the increase in diagnosis: firstly breastfeeding rates seem to be increasing. Secondly the rise in Facebook groups etc mean that if your having problems feeding etc other people will suggest you get checked by an IBCLC so it gets diagnosed. There is currently a board looking at getting tongue tie snipping to be done nationwide which is leading to increased awareness.

I'm in Kerry and travelled to limerick to get it done for free under my health insurance, there is a peadeatric dentist in tralee doing it but it was going to cost over €250.

pwurple

vibe666 wrote: »

as for the church and breast feeding, you'll find that it goes along with the whole shaming of irish people and making them see themselves and their bodies as sinful and dirty.

in 1981 britain (who didn't have a great track record for breast feeding themselves) still had double the percentage of breast feeding mothers than ireland, and that wasn't for no reason]

Sorry to further the random derailment, but this is just nonsense. Britian and protestantism has always had more of a victorian puritanical view of body shaming and sin than the catholics ever had. Catholicism is positively liberal in comparison. The church is, and has been pro-breastfeeding. A better comparison might be SPAIN or portugal, or many of the african countries, who are all staunchly catholic, but with much higher breastfeeding rates. This is just trying to shoehorn every problem in the universe onto the church, the usual mantra of the recently converted ex-catholic.

vibe666

pwurple wrote: »

Sorry to further the random derailment, but this is just nonsense. Britian and protestantism has always had more of a victorian puritanical view of body shaming and sin than the catholics ever had. Catholicism is positively liberal in comparison. The church is, and has been pro-breastfeeding. A better comparison might be SPAIN or portugal, or many of the african countries, who are all staunchly catholic, but with much higher breastfeeding rates. This is just trying to shoehorn every problem in the universe onto the church, the usual mantra of the recently converted ex-catholic.

You're just determined to show how little you know about anything and everything aren't you?

Still at least you are consistent. :rolleyes:

January

vibe666 wrote: »

You're just determined to show how little you know about anything and everything aren't you?

Still at least you are consistent. :rolleyes:

Attack the post, not the poster please.

wmpdd3

Vibe 666, I agree with you about the breastfeeding 'support' in hospitals, I really feel its a tick box exercise. I received help for the first 12 hours but as soon as my milk didn't come in and things got difficult that the only solution I was given was formula.

I had no idea that my son would have to have a general anesthetic. I really hope this can be done some other way, visually you can't see anything but he cant lick a lolly. Hopefully its a small procedure.