Tongue tie

How Strange

wmpdd3 I think that's the real shame here. It's a very simple, virtually cost neutral exercise if consultants and midwives were trained to snip at birth but once they're 6 months it requires a general anesthetic, a hospital bed, an anesthetist (spelling?) and a host of other medical staff so calculate the cost of that on the health service. Not to mention the effects on the baby.

I think vibe666 is essentially right about the church being anti breastfeeding but it was the whole establishment of which the church was a large part. It most likely started when childbirth became medicalised and women stopped having babies at home with a midwife present. My oldest uncle now 67 was born at home and my dad, 65, was born in hospital.

For years women had to go through a cleansing ceremony 6 weeks after birth before they could go back to mass. The church in Ireland was so wholly repressed that they had all sort of books, plays, arts banned for the tiniest reference to sexuality. So I really can't see how they were ever pro breastfeeding. The only thing they were ever pro was women having as many kids as possible and not for any other reason than contraception was a sin and illegal.

If you breastfed you were poor. That's how society at large saw you and treated you. I asked my mother why she never fed in 70's or 90's (when my youngest siblings were born) and she said it was never even mebtioned. In 70's you were given tablets to dry your milk up as soon as the baby was born. My mother in law told me she asked a consultant and nuns and nurses when my husband was born in 1975 and she was told that it was too much messing around and too much hardship so don't even bother trying.

Sorry mods for the total derailment of the thread. I won't derail again but I think vibe666 is essentially correct in what he's saying but the church was only a part of the while system that actively discouraged and effectively wiped out breastfeeding in Ireland.

pwurple

The claim that the catholic church was anti-breastfeeding is against the evidence of every other catholic country in the world where breastfeeding rates are many multiples of ours. Catholicism does not conflate feeding with sex, although general sexual repression has have gotten all mixed up in people's heads with breast-feeding. It certainly still is for many people today. But it's a massive jump in logic to lay this at the door of christianity. There is no "Thou shalt use SMA" in the bible.

My mum breastfed us, her mum breastfed them, my greatgrandmother also breastfed. None of them were considered particularly poor or rich to my knowledge. the family were mainly teachers and clergy, so there would also have been huge catholic influence.

The other side of the family were farmers, and did not breastfeed. I believe the reason for this was indicitive of the hard hours involved in the rural aspect of much of irish life. My grandmother worked long hours on the farm, as the whole family did at the time, was expected to continue working up to the day she gave birth, and a couple of days later. She had the older children feed the new baby with bottles, or propped the baby up with a towel under a bottle. Formula was what she used to allow her to work as hard as she did.

I honestly don't think the religion of either family was a major influence on whether they breastfed, it was their different lifestyles. Formula was very convenient for farmers in particular, and had a huge uptake here.

lazygal

My mother breastfed all of us. Unfortunately not for very long as she says herself because of the lack of knowledge and ignorance about breastfeeding. She remembers her mother breastfeeding only one of her siblings, the rest were formula fed. Maybe the rural thing has something to do with it. My mother in law breastfed too, not in Ireland I might add, and heard a lot of the same myths my mother heard about hungry babies and needing to give formula as breastfeeding was too hard.

I found the support incredibly hit and miss and as soon as any problems presented formula was one of the first solutions offered. My husband had to be extremely firm, almost to the point of rudeness, when my first was born as he was put under a lot of pressure to offer a bottle when I was in recovery.

Second time however I found it totally different. I told the nursing staff I would be breastfeeding and I didn't want any formula given before the baby was born. Afterwards I let them weigh the baby to keep track of things but again told them I was breastfeeding and didn't want any negativity about weight loss or charts to interfere with me focusing on feeding. Things were far smoother and i'll probably feed longer than I did first time.

I also find a lot of PHN present what is their opinion as fact. I had one who never breastfed herself tell me I should only be feeding a certain time and topping up rather than cluster feeding.

Tombo2001

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Vibe 666, I agree with you about the breastfeeding 'support' in hospitals, I really feel its a tick box exercise. I received help for the first 12 hours but as soon as my milk didn't come in and things got difficult that the only solution I was given was formula.

I had no idea that my son would have to have a general anesthetic. I really hope this can be done some other way, visually you can't see anything but he cant lick a lolly. Hopefully its a small procedure.

Hospitals are measured on metrics.

Healthy baby = box ticked. Success in breastfeeding is not a box ticker (I understand what you are saying, that 'support' for breast feeding may be a box ticker, something much more easily 'ticked').

They should be upfront and say to parents in advance that they offer little by way of support for breast feeding, and not to expect anything.

The same applies to PHNs. If they are supportive re breast feeding, its really just down to the individual, but its not a box ticker for them.

Really, a lactation consultant is where its at if you want any proper support.

How Strange

Success at breastfeeding is a box ticker as these become the statistics that x% mothers were breastfeeding when discharged from hospital. Unfortunately the ticked box doesn't come anywhere close to representing the reality.

Also for lactation consultants, they're not all the same. Ibclc consultants are the ones you want or la Leche league/Cuidiu trained leaders. Ibclc are internationally accredited and the others have rigorous, ongoing training equivalent to ibclc. The hospital trained LCs can be fantastic or not but they are generally understaffed and overloaded. A lot of the hospital trained LCs provide a private consultancy service but the quality of service may not be as good as an ibclc LC. If I were advising a new mum who was going to engage an LC that's what I'd say.

January

Can we give the references to the church a rest please guys. It's off topic to the thread.

pwurple

Lactation consultants are all well and good, but in my experience they cover 9-5, monday to friday. Which is not much use if your baby is born on a friday of a bank holiday weekend. A couple of my friends floundered during that initial stage, , and had given up by the time a LC was available.

lazygal

Not to mention the cost of getting a private lactation consultant in. Not everyone has the money for a private consultant to come to their home and any I looked into were quite expensive.

How Strange

La Leche league and ciudiu leaders are 24/7, free and are trained to international accredited standards. LLL leaders (not sure about Cuidiu) are trained to recognise tongue tie. I'm not sure if they can make a referral.

wingnut

Interesting to hear about vibe666's experience at Holles St. (biting my tongue on the 'rough "foreign" nurse comment').

Our experience at the University Maternity Hospital Limerick (Limerick Maternity to most) was the opposite. The lactation consultants (parent craft as they call them) were very supportive and very patient. They also offer a weekly support class for parents so they can have follow up access to parentcraft without paying for private consult. They did point out the slight tongue tie which we subsequently got snipped.

vibe666

wingnut wrote: »

Interesting to hear about vibe666's experience at Holles St. (biting my tongue on the 'rough "foreign" nurse comment').

i was trying not to be specific so as not to make it seem like a racist comment, but in my considerable experience with (probably hundreds at this stage) nurses in Ireland, as not only the husband of a patient and the father of a patient but as a patient myself with repeated long stays in hospitals, whilst the overwhelming majority of nurses have always been amazing, i've found that certain nationalities have a tendency to be particularly rough compared to others.

having said that, i'm "foreign" too, so what were you biting your tongue about?

CramCycle

I know when Mount Carmel where around they were very pro looking for the tongue tie, they called in others to confirm and gave good advice on where to go if you wanted it snipped and what the potential pitfalls were if you didn't.

blondieali83

wmpdd3 wrote: »

my 30 month old had finally been diagnosed with a tongue tie.

I have been saying it since he was born, he couldn't feed etc.

I have an appointment with a doc in Clonmel in 2 months time, no idea how the doc is going to this as O is pretty terrified of docs this stage.

it was only when the slt person asked him to stick his tongue out that it was spotted. it seems to be another reason why he doesn't speak.

I am experiencing the exact problem. My 2yr 4m old still is only saying mama and Dada. I also had an awful time breast feeding in which I gave up after about 10 weeks. I brought her to my GP and PHN and they didn't even look in her mouth. I pay privately for speech therapy with no improvement. Only I mentioned it to another mother that it confirmed my suspicions. Do you get a referral from your GP or can you call directly? I assume a referral is the better way for an older child.

CramCycle

We were referred but not sure if you can just ring or not.

Do it quickly though. The doctor was saying the younger it is done the better. This is from memory but after a certain point it's an operation rather than a quick snip.

cyning

CramCycle wrote: »

We were referred but not sure if you can just ring or not.

Do it quickly though. The doctor was saying the younger it is done the better. This is from memory but after a certain point it's an operation rather than a quick snip.

I have the second post on this thread saying about my second daughter who had her tongue tie snipped. However my almost 4 year old has been diagnosed with one and we are waiting on SALT. If they decide that what's causing the muffled speech we will have to have her put out with a general anaesthetic because of her age to have it snipped. There's a big difference there.

The next thing is who to get referred to... We go to an ent in Limerick privately. There are still many who won't touch a tongue tie with a barge pole. In my experience you will need a referral.

tinkerbell

blondieali83 wrote: »

I am experiencing the exact problem. My 2yr 4m old still is only saying mama and Dada. I also had an awful time breast feeding in which I gave up after about 10 weeks. I brought her to my GP and PHN and they didn't even look in her mouth. I pay privately for speech therapy with no improvement. Only I mentioned it to another mother that it confirmed my suspicions. Do you get a referral from your GP or can you call directly? I assume a referral is the better way for an older child.

You can call a lactation consultant and they can diagnose the TT for you and refer you. You can find one here:

http://www.alcireland.ie/find-a-consultant/

GPs and PHNs tend not to have the training to diagnose a TT. Best to get an LC to look at it - they are very quick also with referrals since you're going privately.

CramCycle

cyning wrote: »

I have the second post on this thread saying about my second daughter who had her tongue tie snipped. However my almost 4 year old has been diagnosed with one and we are waiting on SALT. If they decide that what's causing the muffled speech we will have to have her put out with a general anaesthetic because of her age to have it snipped. There's a big difference there.

I knew I had heard it somewhere, could well have been here.

Can I ask what SALT is?

tinkerbell

CramCycle wrote: »

I knew I had heard it somewhere, could well have been here.

Can I ask what SALT is?

Speech and language therapy I think?

cyning

Ya sorry speech and language therapy. Waiting publicly as it's ridiculously expensive.

CramCycle

cyning wrote: »

Ya sorry speech and language therapy. Waiting publicly as it's ridiculously expensive.

Its crazy, a family member went for it years ago and had to wait, ended up taking alot longer because he didn't get what he needed in time and the family could not afford or realise what exactly was needed. Now it didn't effect him, done well, through college, good job, smarter than me but part of me does feel that 2 years earlier, would have made a huge difference to him as a child.

Its nothing short of disgraceful the lack of support in early childhood development.

cyning

She failed a hearing test in one ear too, but they don't think that's the issue as she had the ear drum ruptured by the biggest twat of a doc in hosp a few weeks before that and there was still some healing going on. Went privately for that or we would still be waiting ditto the ENT.

Will hopefully be seen in July by salt fingers crossed as the waiting lists aren't as bad here as in other places.