Would you pay 20 quid for a packet of cigarettes?

galwayredgirl

Norma_Desmond wrote: »

It's just a smokescreen. At times I think they are just jostling for publicity, wanting to be seen doing something.
They're also using sections of the population seen as ''fair game'' for fodder (smokers, the unemployed, young people).

Seems like Ireland is turning into a country for the upper classes to live and for everyone else to struggle
(I know this comment is a bit off topic, but the country is such a joke at this stage).

Deck chairs & Titanic come to mind

OldNotWIse

Norma_Desmond wrote: »

It's just a smokescreen. At times I think they are just jostling for publicity, wanting to be seen doing something.
They're also using sections of the population seen as ''fair game'' for fodder (smokers, the unemployed, young people).

Seems like Ireland is turning into a country for the upper classes to live and for everyone else to struggle
(I know this comment is a bit off topic, but the country is such a joke at this stage).

:pac:

neamhspleachi

Fúck that, 35gm of American Spirit tobacco in Lanzarote is only €2.35

I always bring 50 packs back with me, a years supply in one trip

conorhal

Chris___ wrote: »

Oh please don't start this bull****. In 2012 the "evil" tobacco companies made €300 million on sales in Ireland meanwhile the Government made €1.3 billion.

Which, coincidentally is the cost of smoking related ilnesses to the health service, but when you factor in all the pension costs and elder care not paid for we smokers save the state money!
Personally I'm surprise that our scumbag governent isn't encouraging people to smoke like the Chinese:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5271376/Chinese-ordered-to-smoke-more-to-boost-economy.html

At the very least they should be taxing gym subscriptions heavily to cover the cost of all those healthy 90yr olds with dementia that require expensive nursing homes!

Chris___ wrote: »

I think we smoker gave more considering the number of people dying in this country from cancer (and may i point out a lot of them non smokers) you can be sure most of that money went to other departments not health.

We pay a health levy that goes to pay off a bank debt
A property tax that won’t fill a single pothole, but will fund a new quango to implement another tax, one on water, road tax of course is more of the same.
If the tax collected on cigarettes was spent on treating the effects of smoking relate illnesses we'd actually have the best in the world, top class health service in terms of cancer and cardio care, for smokers and everybody else.

As for the punative self reighteous posters, WHAT? SMOKERS DYING OF CANCER ISN'T PUNISHMENT ENOUGH FOR YOU? You have to be cnut about also?

meoklmrk91

I am a former smoker, I use a vapouriser now and am very happy with it. Some people like to smoke, others don't, why do people have to make such a big deal about it, people are going to die regardless, everyone knows the dangers of smoking, why so we have to go all nanny state and tell them to stop, it's nobody else's business. People argue that it costs the state money when they get sick, to funding the health service without the spoils from cigs and see how far you get.

Why can't we be trusted to do what we want with our own bodies. Tobacco is bad, lets tax that. Sugary foods are bad, lets tax them. Alcohol is bad, lets tax that. Anything enjoyable is bad, lets just tax the **** out of everything so it's unaffordable. People are actually in favour of the sugary foods tax, ARE YOU STUPID? It won't make a difference and you are giving them permission to tax us on yet another thing. The truth is taxing stuff like this has nothing to do with our health and well being, it simply has to do with the easiest way to gain revenue, tax something people won't do without and there you have it, easy money.

P_1

neamhspleachi wrote: »

Fúck that, 35gm of American Spirit tobacco in Lanzarote is only €2.35

I always bring 50 packs back with me, a years supply in one trip

I didn't think they let you being that much back from the Canaries (something about it being in the EU but not in the EU). €117.50 + the cost of a return flight certainly sounds like a better investment than €3495 (€9.60*7*52) for a years supply. (Crikey even when you think of that sum it's madness)

Tiddlypeeps

Norma_Desmond wrote: »

It's just a smokescreen. At times I think they are just jostling for publicity, wanting to be seen doing something.
They're also using sections of the population seen as ''fair game'' for fodder (smokers, the unemployed, young people).

Seems like Ireland is turning into a country for the upper classes to live and for everyone else to struggle
(I know this comment is a bit off topic, but the country is such a joke at this stage).

F*ck sake, I'm sick of this crap coming up again and again. Who are this "upper class" getting off scot free that you speak of?

Only 14% of households have an income of over 100k, which isn't eve crazy when you take in the fact that includes duel income homes.

Only 2% have an income of over 200k.

There are very very few seriously wealthy people in this country, our level of income inequality is very low. We are nothing like the US in this regard, but for some reason lots of people seem to think we have all the same economic problems.

Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the world, to the point of unfairness on anyone earning over 40k. The richer you are the more you contribute to the state. A person earning 100k takes home less than 60k of that. Are you genuinely unaware that that's how it works or are you just wilfully ignoring it because it's easy to spout that the poor are grinding away footing the bill while the "rich" get off scot free?

jackofalltrades

galwayredgirl wrote: »

Inefficient management in the HSE costs a lot more! Too many overpaid pen pushers.

According to Ash Ireland up to €2 billion is spent every year in treating tobacco related disease in this country.

As inefficient as the HSE may be, I very much doubt that efficiency savings exceeding €2 billion could be found in it.

daithimac

No I'd buy them on the black market which would be huge to meet demand.

Mr_Red

No, I need someone to put them out of my reach by taxing the fuck out of them

neamhspleachi

P_1 wrote: »

I didn't think they let you being that much back from the Canaries (something about it being in the EU but not in the EU). €117.50 + the cost of a return flight certainly sounds like a better investment than €3495 (€9.60*7*52) for a years supply. (Crikey even when you think of that sum it's madness)

They don't, but I've been getting away with it for years, sure if I get pulled I'm only out €117.50

Worth the risk IMHO, fúck the tax/revenue man, they get enough out of me as is

OldNotWIse

neamhspleachi wrote: »

They don't, but I've been getting away with it for years, sure if I get pulled I'm only out €117.50

Worth the risk IMHO, fúck the tax/revenue man, they get enough out of me as is

Yep, agree. I love getting one up on them, even if its just a 200 carton. F*cked if I am ever buying a box of cigarettes in this country again. Wouldnt even be so bad if they spent the revenue on something decent but they dont. They just p1ss it away.

Snake

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Nothing illegal about flying to Budapest and bringing back 3000 legally bought fags.

I think airport customs would strongly disagree

P_1

GrayFox208 wrote: »

I think airport customs would strongly disagree

Nope, once they're bought in the EU (with the exception of the Canary and Channel Islands) and for personal use you can bring back as much as you can carry. The duty on them has already been paid.

Snake

"I'll buy them on the black market"

The black market

Illegally buying tobacco

Risk prison and/or a massive fine

For a cigarette?

This is the kind of thing that makes for a stupid counter argument.. There's people who'd rather illegally purchase cigarettes.. Than quit.. A few months or more in prison over few weeks of cravings.. Ireland everybody.

Snake

P_1 wrote: »

Nope, once they're bought in the EU (with the exception of the Canary and Channel Islands) and for personal use you can bring back as much as you can carry. The duty on them has already been paid.

I withdraw my previous statement, carry on

thecheese

I'm not a smoker but found the below quite interesting. W. Kip Viscusi, a Professor of Law and Economics at Harvard published a paper outlining the net costs of smokers vs. non-smokers to (USA) society.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w4891.pdf

Non-smokers cost more through a combination of reduced long term health/pension costs.

A slightly grim way of looking at it, but there you go!:pac:

neamhspleachi

GrayFox208 wrote: »

"I'll buy them on the black market"

The black market

Illegally buying tobacco

Risk prison and/or a massive fine

For a cigarette?

This is the kind of thing that makes for a stupid counter argument.. There's people who'd rather illegally purchase cigarettes.. Than quit.. A few months or more in prison over few weeks of cravings.. Ireland everybody.

You just don't get it, do you?

We smokers gotta have our fix man :cool:

You cannot beat that first burn in the morning with a triple expresso to bump start the day, the post coital smoke, the cigar with a glass of single malt

Rehabs for quitters

OldNotWIse

GrayFox208 wrote: »

I withdraw my previous statement, carry on

Isn't the issue kind of put to bed now?

Snake

neamhspleachi wrote: »

You just don't get it, do you?

We smokers gotta have our fix man :cool:

You cannot beat that first burn in the morning with a triple expresso to bump start the day, the post coital smoke, the cigar with a glass of single malt

Rehabs for quitters

Id rather have a few extra years for my morning tea than a few extra fags tbh.. I gave up the fags solely because the budget was rolling close at the time and I knew the bastards would be gone up again.

Tiddlypeeps

Does anyone have any stats on if price increases actually work as a deterrent? I think it does, but I only have anecdotal evidence to go on.

Either way I think that sort of price increase would be monumentally stupid, it would cause the black market to explode in popularity. I think this is likely just the usual scaremongering the government like to do so that when they do increase a slight price increase people are relieved instead of outraged.

neamhspleachi

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Id rather have a few extra years for my morning tea than a few extra fags tbh.. I gave up the fags solely because the budget was rolling close at the time and I knew the bastards would be gone up again.

Good for you, reap the benefits

Personally I don't want to give them up, I enjoy a smoke

I know it's bad for me, I know it'll shorten my life, but fúck it, I accept the consequences of my own stupid actions

Bit of a thicky me, truth be known

o1s1n

GrayFox208 wrote: »

"I'll buy them on the black market"

The black market

Illegally buying tobacco

Risk prison and/or a massive fine

For a cigarette?

This is the kind of thing that makes for a stupid counter argument.. There's people who'd rather illegally purchase cigarettes.. Than quit.. A few months or more in prison over few weeks of cravings.. Ireland everybody.

The chances of you getting locked up for buying some smokes on Moore Street are minuscule. When the risk is so low and someone wants something cheap they'll go for it.

Personally I'd be more worried about black market cigarettes in themselves giving the high level of counterfeiting.

wazky

o1s1n wrote: »

Personally I'd be more worried about black market cigarettes in themselves giving the high level of counterfeiting.

Why?, they might put something in them that's harmful?

Snake

neamhspleachi wrote: »

Good for you, reap the benefits

Personally I don't want to give them up, I enjoy a smoke

I know it's bad for me, I know it'll shorten my life, but fúck it, I accept the consequences of my own stupid actions

Bit of a thicky me, truth be known

Good man.

Sam Kade

KungPao wrote: »

Well I spend 4.99 a week on e-juice, so probably won't be buying packs of cigs any time soon.

Don't how people hand over 10 bones for a measly 20 fags, never mind €20.

I presume you smoked before the e cigs so you surely knew why you spent almost 10 on a pack.

Snake

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Does anyone have any stats on if price increases actually work as a deterrent? I think it does, but I only have anecdotal evidence to go on.

Either way I think that sort of price increase would be monumentally stupid, it would cause the black market to explode in popularity. I think this is likely just the usual scaremongering the government like to do so that when they do increase a slight price increase people are relieved instead of outraged.

Well it's like this.

Timmy has 1 cigarette left. He smokes cigarette, timmy goes to the shop to buy some, but cigarettes are 9.40, timmy only has 7 euro does Timmy get his cigarettes? No he doesn't.

wonski

o1s1n wrote: »

The chances of you getting locked up for buying some smokes on Moore Street are minuscule. When the risk is so low and someone wants something cheap they'll go for it.

Personally I'd be more worried about black market cigarettes in themselves giving the high level of counterfeiting.

Why would anyone buy these cigarettes, when you can book a return flight with a well-known airline for 20-40 euros to Spain or somewhere else cheap and bring enough to poison yourself for another few weeks / months?

Snake

Sam Kade wrote: »

I presume you smoked before the e cigs so you surely knew why you spent almost 10 on a pack.

Well maybe they smoked rolling tobacco

wazky

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Well it's like this.

Timmy has 1 cigarette left. He smokes cigarette, timmy goes to the shop to buy some, but cigarettes are 9.40, timmy only has 7 euro does Timmy get his cigarettes? No he doesn't.

Timmy finds 2.40 in the car.

Timmy gets his lovely fags.

P_1

wonski wrote: »

Why would anyone buy these cigarettes, when you can book a return flight with a well-known airline for 20-40 euros to Spain or somewhere else cheap and bring enough to poison yourself for another few weeks / months?

I'd wager there's a convenience factor to it. It's a lot simpler for them in the short term to visit their local friendly purveyor of illicit tobacco than to plan in advance to book the cheap flight, gather the needed cash to make the trip worthwhile and go to [insert EU nation of choice].

jimgoose

P_1 wrote: »

Nope, once they're bought in the EU (with the exception of the Canary and Channel Islands) and for personal use you can bring back as much as you can carry. The duty on them has already been paid.

So does this mean there's no need to outrun that thar god-dam Revenoo in a 1969 Charger 440 R/T with the doors welded shut, with the jumping and the roadblock-ramming and the banjo music and the powersliding around clumps of trees while the idjit in the po-lice cruiser ends up in the creek?? Well where's the fun in that! :mad:

OldNotWIse

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Well it's like this.

Timmy has 1 cigarette left. He smokes cigarette, timmy goes to the shop to buy some, but cigarettes are 9.40, timmy only has 7 euro does Timmy get his cigarettes? No he doesn't.

Timmy goes to the shop to buy food. He has twenty euro. He will limit his food spend to 10.60 because he is low on cigarettes.

Timmy is on a night out with friends. He has a few drinks on him and fancies a smoke so he spends his last tenner on a box. He walks home instead of taking a taxi.

He is still spending the same -but the money is just going on cigarettes instead of something else like food and a taxi.

Most smokers will not allow themselves to be left in a situation where they do not have enough for a box.

WinnyThePoo

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Well it's like this.

Timmy has 1 cigarette left. He smokes cigarette, timmy goes to the shop to buy some, but cigarettes are 9.40, timmy only has 7 euro does Timmy get his cigarettes? No he doesn't.

He gets a pack of amerleaf? or whatever brand of tobacco he likes?

galwayredgirl

jackofalltrades wrote: »

According to Ash Ireland up to €2 billion is spent every year in treating tobacco related disease in this country.

As inefficient as the HSE may be, I very much doubt that efficiency savings exceeding €2 billion could be found in it.

That's the problem with this country, there are too many of these so called "organisations" telling people how they should live their lives. Everyone knows that cigarettes aren't good for you. They don't need to be told over and over again!

If we listened to all these anti-drink / anti-smoke / heart healthy / anti-obesity outfits, we may as well just drink bottled water and munch celery sticks!

Reilly fiddles while Ireland burns - Seriously, do you not think that the man would have more serious issues to contend with like the numbers on trolleys?

The latest wheeze (whoops pardon the pun) - probably an anti-sense of humour outfit out there too that I have not heard of, they have pushed all the smokers outside the gates of the hospital - Madness!

Stinicker

P_1 wrote: »

Nope, once they're bought in the EU (with the exception of the Canary and Channel Islands) and for personal use you can bring back as much as you can carry. The duty on them has already been paid.

You are only allowed 800 cigarettes from the majority of the EU states and only 300 from Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania which are also EU states but have a lower limit for some reason.

Only 200 cigarettes can be imported from outside the EU.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html

I personally support gradually rising the price of cigarettes to €20/pack of 20 and they should start at this budget and slap on €2 per pack over the next 5 years until the €20/packet is reached. As a non smoker it dosen't effect and I fully support increasing tax on those stupid enough to smoke rather than the Government taxing me in something else.

Mandatory X-Rays of all inbound passengers luggage and increased surveillance at the ferry ports would quickly help stamp out smuggling. Cigarettes are a drug and should be treated as such with limited access to it and very heavy taxation.

Snake

Stinicker wrote: »

You are only allowed 800 cigarettes from the majority of the EU states and only 300 from Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania which are also EU states but have a lower limit for some reason.

Only 200 cigarettes can be imported from outside the EU.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html

I personally support gradually rising the price of cigarettes to €20/pack of 20 and they should start at this budget and slap on €2 per pack over the next 5 years until the €20/packet is reached. As a non smoker it dosen't effect and I fully support increasing tax on those stupid enough to smoke rather than the Government taxing me in something else.

Mandatory X-Rays of all inbound passengers luggage and increased surveillance at the ferry ports would quickly help stamp out smuggling. Cigarettes are a drug and should be treated as such with limited access to it and very heavy taxation.

No they're not. Nicotine is a drug, but that's in patches and other NRT products.

OldNotWIse

Stinicker wrote: »

You are only allowed 800 cigarettes from the majority of the EU states and only 300 from Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania which are also EU states but have a lower limit for some reason.

Only 200 cigarettes can be imported from outside the EU.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html

I personally support gradually rising the price of cigarettes to €20/pack of 20 and they should start at this budget and slap on €2 per pack over the next 5 years until the €20/packet is reached. As a non smoker it dosen't effect and I fully support increasing tax on those stupid enough to smoke rather than the Government taxing me in something else.

Mandatory X-Rays of all inbound passengers luggage and increased surveillance at the ferry ports would quickly help stamp out smuggling. Cigarettes are a drug and should be treated as such with limited access to it and very heavy taxation.

You know thats not how it works right?

The_Pretender

Stinicker wrote: »

You are only allowed 800 cigarettes from the majority of the EU states and only 300 from Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania which are also EU states but have a lower limit for some reason.

Only 200 cigarettes can be imported from outside the EU.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html

I personally support gradually rising the price of cigarettes to €20/pack of 20 and they should start at this budget and slap on €2 per pack over the next 5 years until the €20/packet is reached. As a non smoker it dosen't effect and I fully support increasing tax on those stupid enough to smoke rather than the Government taxing me in something else.

Mandatory X-Rays of all inbound passengers luggage and increased surveillance at the ferry ports would quickly help stamp out smuggling. Cigarettes are a drug and should be treated as such with limited access to it and very heavy taxation.

Unless you can support your claim that cigarettes cause taxes on non-smokers to remain higher then stop spouting rubbish. Alcohol is also a drug, same with caffeine. Should they be treated with limited access and very high taxation? (Well, alcohol already is.... )

Sam Kade

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Timmy goes to the shop to buy food. He has twenty euro. He will limit his food spend to 10.60 because he is low on cigarettes.

Timmy is on a night out with friends. He has a few drinks on him and fancies a smoke so he spends his last tenner on a box. He walks home instead of taking a taxi.

He is still spending the same -but the money is just going on cigarettes instead of something else like food and a taxi.

Most smokers will not allow themselves to be left in a situation where they do not have enough for a box.

Spot on, my wife smokes and she complains that she have no money for certain things but when it comes to her beloved fags money is never a problem :mad: she had a chance of going to New York earlier this year on holiday but it meant that she would have to quit fags last year to save up again the fags won even though she would have loved to go on that trip.

Caliden

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You know thats not how it works right?

Unfortunately it is.

They have to get it from somewhere.

Sam Kade wrote: »

Spot on, my wife smokes and she complains that she have no money for certain things but when it comes to her beloved fags money is never a problem :mad: she had a chance of going to New York earlier this year on holiday but it meant that she would have to quit fags last year to save up again the fags won even though she would have loved to go on that trip.

Some smokers cut back on food to afford their habit.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/smokers-cut-back-on-food-to-buy-cigarettes-30316117.html

OldNotWIse

The_Pretender wrote: »

Unless you can support your claim that cigarettes cause taxes on non-smokers to remain higher then stop spouting rubbish. Alcohol is also a drug, same with caffeine. Should they be treated with limited access and very high taxation? (Well alcohol already is )

Yes we should all live on oats and distilled water. No booze, no smokes. Feck it lets tax sex aswell. Fat tax, sugar tax, salt tax - we'll do them all!

We'll all be miserable. We'll live to be a hundred though...or at least, we'll be so fuucking bored it will feel that way :P

OldNotWIse

Caliden wrote: »

Unfortunately it is.

They have to get it from somewhere.

afaik there are no two "mutually exclusive" taxes.

readyletsgo

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

People will switch to rolling tobacco.

Just to butt in here, most people over the last 6 or so years have switched to rollies now, cause €5.50 over €9.50 is so much cheaper and more smokes in a small pouch too.

The govt. copped onto this last year in the budget that people smoke rollies now more that a 20 pack so they have started to bump up the price, it was €5.15 two years ago and for a long while before that with not much of an increase. I bet next 'budget' rollies will be €6.00. still cheaper but rollie tobacco will be €9 in 3 years I'd say.

If the govt. wanted to stop people smoking, they would ban them, simple, no use ignoring that.

But they wont do that as they make about €7 out of the €9.50 on a pack of 20 fags, shop make like €0.50 or a €1 and the rest goes to the tobacco company who make billions out of that. €0.50 or €1 sale to each customer each day all over the planet.

Haha €20 for a pack of 20, I'm sure it WILL happen, no doubt about it, just means more people will buy rollies and black market smokes.

Tiddlypeeps

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Well it's like this.

Timmy has 1 cigarette left. He smokes cigarette, timmy goes to the shop to buy some, but cigarettes are 9.40, timmy only has 7 euro does Timmy get his cigarettes? No he doesn't.

How many of the 22% of the population who smoke fall into that category tho?

I used to smoke, and when I was a poor student in college I would literally go hungry instead of going without a packet of tobacco. At the same time tho I think the high price of them did contribute to me quitting in the end, it's hard to say for sure tho as there were other factors. I do think that people will find the money if they need to and if they can't they will just buy them on the black market.

RGDATA!

Caliden wrote: »

To be fair, smokers cost the state in terms of health care.

If 22% of the population smoke and 1 in 2 smokers die of a smoke related disease then would it be safe to say that 10% of the population eventually reach hospital purely because they smoke?

I've nothing against smokers but at the end of the day they cost the health service money so getting the cost back via taxation from the source makes sense to me.

This is actually incorrect - studies have shown that the fact that smokers die younger actually offsets the burden on the state of health care for people with smoking related illnesses.

Samba

KungPao wrote: »

Please no. The witch hunt for e-cigs make me very angry as it is.

It's inevitable I'm afraid and you can probably expect to see it when the tobacco directive comes into effect, the thing is they're going to have a much harder time controlling taxation of e-cigs in the same manner as tobacco, what do they tax juice, parts or both? What about nicotine free juice? Whatever way it's approached, it's almost guaranteed they'll make a complete hash of it

Reilly basically parrots what the WHO say and the WHO are out to restrict e-cigs as apparently they're potentially every bit as harmful as smoking and they're a gateway to tobacco apparently. :rolleyes:

Nicotine is evil according to the WHO, despite the mountain of evidence accumulating that risks associated with consuming nicotine through non combustible means are on par with caffeine.

"Nicotine itself is not a particularly hazardous drug," says Professor John Britton, who leads the tobacco advisory group for the Royal College of Physicians.

"It's something on a par with the effects you get from caffeine.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-21406540

Tiddlypeeps

readyletsgo wrote: »

If the govt. wanted to stop people smoking, they would ban them, simple, no use ignoring that.

They won't do this because they know prohibition doesn't work, it has never in the history of the world worked. Just pop down to O'Connell st. to look at the junkies and how effective the ban on heroine is if you don't believe me.

readyletsgo

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

They won't do this because they know prohibition doesn't work, it has never in the history of the world worked. Just pop down to O'Connell st. to look at the junkies and how effective the ban on heroine is if you don't believe me.

Nope, its just to do with tax I'm afraid.

Snake

Caliden wrote: »

Unfortunately it is.

They have to get it from somewhere.




Some smokers cut back on food to afford their habit.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/smokers-cut-back-on-food-to-buy-cigarettes-30316117.html

So do some drinkers