Colombia vs Uruguay 9pm/Sat 28th

Corholio

Dempsey wrote: »

many types of fitness,your critique isnt relevant to football.

In terms of football, Neymar is in physically better condition than 99% of his peers.

As an athlete, ronaldo is superior to Hulk in every way for a footballer.

I'd love for you to go in for a shoulder charge with Neymar, you would lose...

To call him a toothpick is comical

99%? That's definitely not true anyway. Most top level footballers are in fantastic condition, only distinguishing them by their physical needs for their position. Neymar is in unreal conditon, but then so was the Honduran team.

Neymar is a little skinny, (skinny in terms of football physiques) but skinny isn't meant in a negative manner. I think he's able to move better because of this really.

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

I called Dunphy on saying Neymar was a toothpick.

Comparisons to Ronaldo ; Easier to look bulked when taller imo

Neymar isnt skinny by any definition

No, you called a poster on here for saying he's a toothpick, not Eamo. And you also said that Ronaldo wasn't any bigger at 22.

So your explanations have been:
- Ronaldo was no bulkier at 22
- It's easier to bulk up when you're taller
- It's easier to look bulked when you're taller.

All nonsense.

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

No you called a poster on here for saying he's a toothpick, not Eamo. And you also said that Ronaldo wasn't any bigger at 22.

So your explanations have been:
- Ronaldo was no bulkier at 22
- It's easier to bulk up when you're taller
- It's easier to look bulked when you're taller.

All nonsense.

No, it was because because of Dunphy's rant.

I already admitted that Ronaldo was more bulked at that age.

It is easier to bulk when you are naturally bigger. :rolleyes:

tastyt

Dempsey wrote: »

No, it was because because of Dunphy's rant.

I already admitted that Ronaldo was more bulked at that age.

It is easier to bulk when you are naturally bigger. :rolleyes:

He's skinny. Get over it. Just because he has low body fat and you can see his muscles doesn't mean that a) he is strong or b) he's not a skinny toothpick. He is not a powerful footballer but has the skill and speed to overcome this

Dempsey

tastyt wrote: »

He's skinny. Get over it. Just because he has low body fat and you can see his muscles doesn't mean that a) he is strong or b) he's not a skinny toothpick. He is not a powerful footballer but has the skill and speed to overcome this

:pac:

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

No, it was because because of Dunphy's rant.

You just said: "I called Dunphy on saying Neymar was a toothpick."
Dunphy didn't call him a toothpick.

Dempsey wrote: »

I already admitted that Ronaldo was more bulked at that age.

It is easier to bulk when you are naturally bigger. :rolleyes:

You are flip flopping for all your worth. You brought height into it. Are you saying that it is easier for taller people to put on muscle?

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

You just said: "I called Dunphy on saying Neymar was a toothpick."
Dunphy didn't call him a toothpick.



You are flip flopping for all your worth. You brought height into it. Are you saying that it is easier for taller people to put on muscle?

In case you missed it, Dunphy called him a toothpick and the discussion stemmed from that

No flip flopping at all, I said its easier bulk when you are naturally bigger. Are you suggesting different?

Turtwig

Neymar has some form of anaemia. Whether it's a significant contribution to his physique is something we'll likely never know without stealing his medical files.

Don't agree that he needs to bulk up. His upper body strength seems just fine for holding up the ball. What he does need is to watch his temperament. He could very easily have gotten a stupid yellow today.

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

In case you missed it, Dunphy called him a toothpick and the discussion stemmed from that

No he didn't.

Dempsey wrote: »

No flip flopping at all, I said its easier bulk when you are naturally bigger. Are you suggesting different?

There are different body types: ectomorph, mesomorph and endomorph. It's easier to put on bulk when you are an endo- and mesomorph and harder when you're an ectomorph. Height has nothing to do with it.

Your claims that taller players find it easier to put on bulk and that it's easier for them to look bulked are utter bollocks.

And all this is still irrelevant to the point that Neymar is skinny compared to most top players at his age. You put up a picture as evidence to the contrary. He is skinny in that picture.

tastyt

Peter crouch. Now he is a beast. Especially coz he's so tall and you can see his six pack. Animal

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

No he didn't.



There are different body types: ectomorph, mesomorph and endomorph. It's easier to put on bulk when you are an endo- and mesomorph and harder when you're an ectomorph. Height has nothing to do with it.

Your claims that taller players find it easier to put on bulk and that it's easier for them to look bulked are utter bollocks.

And all this is still irrelevant to the point that Neymar is skinny compared to most top players at his age. You put up a picture as evidence to the contrary. He is skinny in that picture.

Firstly, I know what I said when I said it. :rolleyes:

Secondly, you are talking **** just to get in on the conversation

Thirdly, Neymar is a far superior athlete to most other pro footballers at the moment, there is no question about it. I put up a picture of him 2 years ago when he was 20 and you fell over yourself to bull**** your argument

Shanotheslayer

Dempsey wrote: »

Firstly, I know what I said when I said it. :rolleyes:

Secondly, you are talking **** just to get in on the conversation

Thirdly, Neymar is a far superior athlete to most other pro footballers at the moment, there is no question about it. I put up a picture of him 2 years ago when he was 20 and you fell over yourself to bull**** your argument

Pro.F talking sh1te? Everything he said from the body types to Neymar is all 100% true.

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

Firstly, I know what I said when I said it. :rolleyes:

You said Eamo called Neymar a toothpick. He didn't. Do you want to bet money on it?

Dempsey wrote: »

Secondly, you are talking **** just to get in on the conversation

Thirdly, Neymar is a far superior athlete to most other pro footballers at the moment, there is no question about it. I put up a picture of him 2 years ago when he was 20 and you fell over yourself to bull**** your argument

I didn't realise it was a private conversation you were having on this public forum.

If you want to post a more recent picture of Neymar nobody is stopping you.

If you want to stop saying stupid shít like how it's easier for taller lads to look bulked, then you can do that too.

the incredible pudding

Why the hell does Neymar need to bulk up? You'd swear it was wrestling or something. I'm not even a huge fan of his but you have to admit he's a brilliant player for his age and is one of the few Brazillian forwards of the past decade to live up to his hype.
He's not weak, he's got great balance,you rarely see him being knocked off the ball, he's deceptively good at challenging in the air and he's really, really fast. As an inside forward he's got pretty much everything you'd want and the fact that the team is built around him shows how naturally gifted he is.

He's in a completely different physical mould to C.Ronaldo, in other words he's in a different weight class and he's never going to be that strong. People DO have different body types, some find it easier to put on muscle, some don't. Some are bothered put on lots, while others can use good balance and technique to make up for it. To reiterate, strength in football isn't a pure test of strength, rather than a meld of balance, speed, strength and technique. You often see weedy looking guys out fight big lads due to the culmination of these attributes.

The main criticism you'd have for him are
1) he's not as good as Messi or Ronaldo, to which you'd say, well f**king noone else is and noone is saying that he's that good.

2) he's not really done it for Barca to which you could say, yes, he's not had the best ever season but he's young has moved to a different continent and from a place where he was the biggest star to a place where he's not. You can see from his performances in Brazil that he's that kind of player; the one that wants to be relied on, thrives on it and that can be a weakness too as sometimes he tries too hard and runs into dead ends.


Again, to reiterate, I'm not a huge Neymar fan. He's not the kind of player that I personally admire but he's a really, really good footballer, arguably in the top 10-20 in the world (certainly forwards) and anyone that argues vehemently against that using bull**** arguments such as his physique really needs to cop on and try to understand football better.

Pro. F

the incredible pudding wrote: »

Why the hell does Neymar need to bulk up? You'd swear it was wrestling or something.

We aren't arguing that he needs to bulk up.

edit:

the incredible pudding wrote: »

... he's a really, really good footballer, arguably in the top 10-20 in the world (certainly forwards) and anyone that argues vehemently against that using bull**** arguments such as his physique really needs to cop on and try to understand football better.

Yeah, you need to read the thread more closely before you start telling people to cop on.

the incredible pudding

Pro. F wrote: »

We aren't arguing that he needs to bulk up.

edit:

Yeah, you need to read the thread more closely before you start telling people to cop on.

Then what the hell is your point then? That he's got a body type that's naturally skinnier than Ronaldo's? No s**t sherlock! I was referencing the criticism that was headed by Dunphy and the fact that a couple of posters referred to him as a toothpick, which is ridiculous, because toothpicks don't have any balance.

Maybe if you read my post a bit better you'd see that I agreed with a bunch of your points and wouldn't need to immediately become defensive.

Pro. F

the incredible pudding wrote: »

Then what the hell is your point then? That he's got a body type that's naturally skinnier than Ronaldo's? No s**t sherlock! I was referencing the criticism that was headed by Dunphy and the fact that a couple of posters referred to him as a toothpick, which is ridiculous, because toothpicks don't have any balance.

Maybe if you read my post a bit better you'd see that I agreed with a bunch of your points and wouldn't need to immediately become defensive.

Some mad posters have been trying to say that Neymar isn't skinny, that Ronaldo was the same as him at 22 and that tall people put on muscle more easily. That's the only reason there's been an argument going on the last few pages.

All the things that you say about Neymar using his body well and being an excellent player is exactly in line with what everybody has been saying on the thread. So your claims that people need to understand football better are completely uncalled for.

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

Some mad posters have been trying to say that Neymar isn't skinny, that Ronaldo was the same as him at 22 and that tall people put on muscle more easily. That's the only reason there's been an argument going on the last few pages.

All the things that you say about Neymar using his body well and being an excellent player is exactly in line with what everybody has been saying on the thread. So your claims that people need to understand football better are completely uncalled for.

1) You need to look up the definition of skinny; Neymar is far from Skinny
2) Stated the differences between him and Ronaldo twice already
3) It is easier to put on muscle when you are naturally bigger, you seem to struggle understanding this.

the incredible pudding

Pro. F wrote: »

Some mad posters have been trying to say that Neymar isn't skinny, that Ronaldo was the same as him at 22 and that tall people put on muscle more easily. That's the only reason there's been an argument going on the last few pages.

All the things that you say about Neymar using his body well and being an excellent player is exactly in line with what everybody has been saying on the thread. So your claims that people need to understand football better are completely uncalled for.

I said that if people said that Neymar's physique was holding him back that they needed to understand football better. There's a huge difference and it's not a wide generalisation, which is how it seems you seem to be reading it. You're getting defensive for no reason.

edit- and I'd agree with the above that labelling him skinny is stupid as that would imply that he's very meager and/or weak, which he's obviously not.

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

1) You need to look up the definition of skinny; Neymar is far from Skinny
2) Stated the differences between him and Ronaldo twice already
3) It is easier to put on muscle when you are naturally bigger, you seem to struggle understanding this.

1) You need to understand that the term is being used relatively. Neymar is skinnier than most top professional footballers at that age

2) Chatted a lot of bollocks and said that it's easier for taller players to look bulked

3) Why did you mention height?

Pro. F

the incredible pudding wrote: »

I said that if people said that Neymar's physique was holding him back that they needed to understand football better. There's a huge difference and it's not a wide generalisation, which is how it seems you seem to be reading it. You're getting defensive for no reason.

You might as well have said "If people are saying that Neymar can't be as good as Messi because he has silly hair then they need to learn more about football." That would have been as appropriate as your idea that anybody was arguing vehemently against him being in the top 20 players because he is skinny.

the incredible pudding wrote: »

edit- and I'd agree with the above that labelling him skinny is stupid as that would imply that he's very meager and/or weak, which he's obviously not.

No it wouldn't. Rock climbers are skinny, they aren't weak.

the incredible pudding

Pro. F wrote: »

You might as well have said "If people are saying that Neymar can't be as good as Messi because he has silly hair then they need to learn more about football." That would have been as appropriate as your idea that anybody was arguing vehemently against him being in the top 20 players because he is skinny.
No it wouldn't. Rock climbers are skinny, they aren't weak.

Nah, I disagree completely. You often hear that players need to bulk up and get bigger etc. In general terms, skinny is used as an insult, implying weakness. Certainly the term "toothpick" means as much, it's something that can be easily knocked over, that is weak and maleable. This whole conversation stems from the fact that Dunphy labelled him as being weak, needing to get bigger and bulk up. It's not the same as a haircut, that's a strawman argument.

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

No it wouldn't. Rock climbers are skinny, they aren't weak.

Name a rock climber that is skinny!

Pro. F

the incredible pudding wrote: »

Nah, I disagree completely. You often hear that players need to bulk up and get bigger etc. In general terms, skinny is used as an insult, implying weakness. Certainly the term "toothpick" means as much, it's something that can be easily knocked over, that is weak and maleable. This whole conversation stems from the fact that Dunphy labelled him as being weak, needing to get bigger and bulk up. It's not the same as a haircut, that's a strawman argument.

If you actually read what people posted you would see that pretty much everybody who commented on his ability agreed that Neymar uses his skinny body well and is an excellent player. Assuming that there was implied criticism because of how you think skinniness is normally perceived is completely daft.

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

Name a rock climber that is skinny!

I wouldn't be able to name any famous rock climbers. I know a few personally and they're generally skinny and strong. The strongest tree surgeon I've ever seen was very skinny too.

the incredible pudding

Pro. F wrote: »

If you actually read what people posted you would see that pretty much everybody who commented on his ability agreed that Neymar uses his skinny body well and is an excellent player. Assuming that there was implied criticism because of how you think skinniness is normally perceived is completely daft.

You don't think the term toothpick is derogative? Okay so...

Pro. F

the incredible pudding wrote: »

You don't think the term toothpick is derogative? Okay so...

The poster who used the term did so when people were saying that Ronaldo had the same build as Neymar. That poster made no comment on Neymar's ability, so your "vehemently arguing against Neymar as a top 20 player" definitely couldn't have been directed at him.

the incredible pudding

Pro. F wrote: »

The poster who used the term did so when people were saying that Ronaldo had the same build as Neymar. That poster made no comment on Neymar's ability, so your "vehemently arguing against Neymar as a top 20 player" definitely couldn't have been directed at him.

Again, you're misdirecting the argument (of which there should be none and I've no idea why you went looking for one).

I didn't single anyone out here for being ignorant of Neymar's talents, I didn't say people HERE were stupid and I immediately questioned why you got so defensive about the subject.

Regardless of the relative comparison to Ronaldo, "toothpick" is derogative and conveys the meaning that I described previously. Given the reason for the conversation in the first place was due to Dunphy's scathing criticism of the player, it's only natural to assume that using such terms about their physique as being derogatory. Like it or not, a lot of people consider calling a player "skinny" to denote an unconditioned person, calling someone a "toothpick" is just a plain insult. If you disagree then just do that, disagree and move on.

I'm done here.

clsmooth

Paco Rodriguez wrote: »

Will be sad to follow James's progress from a talented yet modest young potential star into a knobhead like Ronaldo in a few years time.

Why do you assume that? Because he has the same look about him?

Pro. F

the incredible pudding wrote: »

Again, you're misdirecting the argument (of which there should be none and I've no idea why you went looking for one).

I didn't single anyone out here for being ignorant of Neymar's talents, I didn't say people HERE were stupid and I immediately questioned why you got so defensive about the subject.

Regardless of the relative comparison to Ronaldo, "toothpick" is derogative and conveys the meaning that I described previously. Given the reason for the conversation in the first place was due to Dunphy's scathing criticism of the player, it's only natural to assume that using such terms about their physique as being derogatory. Like it or not, a lot of people consider calling a player "skinny" to denote an unconditioned person, calling someone a "toothpick" is just a plain insult. If you disagree then just do that, disagree and move on.

I'm done here.

It doesn't matter whether you singled anybody out or not. You assumed that posters on the thread talking about Neymar being skinny were doubting his quality. That assumption was wrong.

edit: The same goes for your insistence that you can infer how a poster rates a player based on one word taken out of context.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no doubt that Neymar is slightly built. But it doesn't hold his game back, he uses his pace and skill brilliantly. If he had any sort of CF to play off at this tournament he could be being talked about as the player of the tournament.

The strange thing is, in the past he has played from the left and with him cutting inside he and Fred actually worked pretty well together, Fred was always there, immobile to play a little give and go with or draw a man out of position.

When they play Neymar more centrally this has not worked well at all.

In fairness to him he is still in the discussion for player of the tournament imo, he is the main reason Brazil are where they are, so much pressure put on his shoulders and he is delivering thus far

kryogen

Paco Rodriguez wrote: »

Will be sad to follow James's progress from a talented yet modest young potential star into a knobhead like Ronaldo in a few years time.

1. How dare you insult my hero.
2. James has always had question marks over his attitude.
3. Just cause you haven't heard of someone doesn't mean they don't exist.

alchemist33

Billy86 wrote: »

Uncomfortable much?

Not at all. They're all fine specimens, regardless of bulk

Debate about Neymars body? Lol

Colombia look great, Rodriguez is phenomenonal.

Ftr, Neymar is all muscle. Most players are these days tbh. They look after themselves. Players from England like Rooney are almost the exception.

pickarooney

RedemptionZ wrote: »

He looks like a complete toothpick there, he's got a low bodyfat percentage no doubt but looks to have no lats and little to no delts in that picture. Football isn't a bodybuilding contest but he's a very weedy player and the fact he's 5'9" makes it much more visible, at least a 6'2" guy with the same BMI will be a good 40lbs heavier. He'll have to bulk up if he wants to make it injury free in the long term imo.

Because that plan went flawlessly for (Brazilian) Ronaldo...

Nalz

Whats the best site to see world cup highlights? Not 101greatgoals... so slow and ads, links etc everywhere

Anything better lads?

thanks
trilla

blueser

Trilla wrote: »

Whats the best site to see world cup highlights? Not 101greatgoals... so slow and ads, links etc everywhere

Anything better lads?

thanks
trilla

Didn't you try the BBC, ITV or RTE websites then?

RedemptionZ

pickarooney wrote: »

Because that plan went flawlessly for (Brazilian) Ronaldo...

I don't think in this day and age Neymar would go on a dirty bulk! 7kgs over 3 seasons would do him a world of good, imo.

dmc17

We need to get this guy for RTE