Netherlands vs Mexico 5pm / Sun 29th

SantryRed

niallo27 wrote: »

Can you remember this next time you have a go at Suarez. Don't want to make this into a liverpool thing but there is a few utd supporters here that have made nothing of what robben did but call Suarez every name they can think of for much less.

Seriously,

Would you keep the United-Liverpool **** out of one ****ing thread? For **** sake. The forum is going to the ****ing dogs and it's this bollocks leading the way. ****sake.

niallo27

DM-ICE wrote: »

Seems a lot of people want the game played to a moral code and are not so keen on the actual laws of the game.

Robben is a diver, still a penalty though.

You could argue was there enough contact to make him go down. Contact isn't always a penalty.

niallo27

SantryRed wrote: »

Seriously,

Would you keep the United-Liverpool **** out of one ****ing thread? For **** sake. The forum is going to the ****ing dogs and it's this bollocks leading the way. ****sake.

I find it hard to ignore to be honest. Well down for getting so many *'s in one post mind you.

Augmerson

SantryRed wrote: »

Seriously,

Would you keep the United-Liverpool **** out of one ****ing thread? For **** sake. The forum is going to the ****ing dogs and it's this bollocks leading the way. ****sake.

Ah heyor

eagle eye

Bacchus wrote: »

Yup, he has been one of the stars (mostly due to his performance vs Brazil) but unless he's one of those keepers who blossoms late in their career, it a case of an average player punching above his weight in the 4 weeks that are the World Cup.

But that is not the case, he was a top class keeper and then he had a bad run of form. If he hadn't had that bad run he would have been signed by a top club long ago.

He came to Europe and has done well with Ajaccio, now after this World Cup he has the chance to move to a much bigger club and get to where he should have been a couple of years ago.

Fescue

Louis van Gaal: 'We had a bit of luck with the cooling break, so that I could implement plan B. That saved us.'

Even LVG isn't going to claim it was all part of his original masterplan.

DM_7

niallo27 wrote: »

You could argue was there enough contact to make him go down. Contact isn't always a penalty.

You could argue anything (:P), but if the ref thinks he tried to trip him through careless play then its a penalty.

If you it was a case where he bumped (not charge) into Robbens shoulder then it wouldn't be a foul as that is the contact element of the game but it was a trip. The rules are specific about what happens if a player kicks or trips a player carelessly, contact with a players leg/foot is not the same as other parts of his body.

EDIT: also you don't even need contact, if a player was forced to get out of the way of a careless challenge a peno can be awarded.

Rayne Wooney

niallo27 wrote: »

Can you remember this next time you have a go at Suarez. Don't want to make this into a liverpool thing but there is a few utd supporters here that have made nothing of what robben did but call Suarez every name they can think of for much less.

If it's a foul then what the player does doesn't matter, if I was giving Suarez grief then there was most probably no foul involved unless you can find a post where Suarez was fouled and dived and I had a go at him

Rayne Wooney

That quote from Van Gaal :pac:

pickarooney

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Why do so many people use the term Holland? It's not dissimilar to calling the Irish team Leinster.

Leinster is not a synecdoche of Ireland in the manner that Holland is for The Netherlands.

niallo27

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If it's a foul then what the player does doesn't matter, if I was giving Suarez grief then there was most probably no foul involved unless you can find a post where Suarez was fouled and dived and I had a go at him

Fair enough. What's the point.

Rayne Wooney

niallo27 wrote: »

Fair enough. What's the point.

I believe it's called banter

Fescue

pickarooney wrote: »

Leinster is not a synecdoche of Ireland in the manner that Holland is for The Netherlands.

Thank you for my new word of the day.

Zico

Maybe Robben isn't a diver, he just loses his balance ...alot.

Would this excuse satisfy people?

super_furry

If Robben doesn't throw himself to the ground, does the referee give a penalty?

efb

Fescue wrote: »

Thank you for my new word of the day.

Yeah me too!

eagle eye

super_furry wrote: »

If Robben doesn't throw himself to the ground, does the referee give a penalty?

No because we seen earlier in the game when he hurdles a high tackle that you are not getting a penalty for that even though it did affect his attempt to get a goal.

super_furry

eagle eye wrote: »

No because we seen earlier in the game when he hurdles a high tackle that you are not getting a penalty for that even though it did affect his attempt to get a goal.

Indeed. So if he's fouled in the penalty area - which he was for the penalty - and the only way to get the referee to acknowledge this fact is to throw himself to the ground, then he has to do it.

Blame the referees for not awarding fouls unless someone hits the deck.

Francie Barrett

Fescue wrote: »

Even LVG isn't going to claim it was all part of his original masterplan.

:pac:

DM-ICE

DM-ICE wrote: »

Seems a lot of people want the game played to a moral code and are not so keen on the actual laws of the game.

Robben is a diver, still a penalty though.

Did he go down easy though is the real issue here. Could he have stayed on his feet? Thats why people are pissed off. The sooner players are given bans for this on reflective evidence the better.

The legs were self-scissored apart, the fake cry of agony, the arms out wide. There is no way that the force applied by Marquez for example could have knocked him like that. That said i respect the fact that its very hard for a ref to adjudicate on that scenario in real time. He seems to have theatrics down to a fine art. Yes for me there was contact but was it sufficient enough for that joke of a reaction?

As for calling Holland Holland, I was in Holland a few weeks ago, well, I was actually in The Netherlands yet even there it was all Holland on banners and cheers with goals.

Amirani

pickarooney wrote: »

Leinster is not a synecdoche of Ireland in the manner that Holland is for The Netherlands.

Agreed, but my question is mostly interested in why Holland is used as a synecdoche, despite only having a provincial status similar to that of Leinster within Ireland.

Lingua Franca

Because sailors, who were out and about and meeting people from other countries, tended to come from Holland and say that they came from Holland.

...And people from The Netherlands outside Holland using "Holland" in chants and so on.

ShooterSF

super_furry wrote: »

Indeed. So if he's fouled in the penalty area - which he was for the penalty - and the only way to get the referee to acknowledge this fact is to throw himself to the ground, then he has to do it.

Blame the referees for not awarding fouls unless someone hits the deck.

If only I could thanks this twice. Said it before, you want to reduce diving? Don't base your decisions of what is and isn't a foul by players falling down.

eagle eye

super_furry wrote: »

Indeed. So if he's fouled in the penalty area - which he was for the penalty - and the only way to get the referee to acknowledge this fact is to throw himself to the ground, then he has to do it.

Blame the referees for not awarding fouls unless someone hits the deck.

Yes, blame the referees.

Corholio

No wonder players are still constantly diving when supporters want to take the responsibility for it away from them and plant it somewhere else.

ShooterSF

Corholio wrote: »

No wonder players are still constantly diving when supporters want to take the responsibility for it away from them and plant it somewhere else.

Players diving to con a ref into giving a foul is inexcusable. Players exaggerating an actual foul begs the question why they need to if the refs always gave the foul properly.

If Fifa are serious about stamping out diving they'll give Robben a severe punishment. Ban him for the rest of the tournament. Tonight he admitted to simulation on twitter but not the most important piece of simulation.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/sport/world-cup-2014/story/football-robben-sorry-world-cup-dive-insists-penalty-was-right-20140

VEN

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Holland have to play the next game at 5 as well, it's a joke really

No, i think its at 9pm our time (5pm) yesterdays game was at 1pm their time.

They did well in that heat, they took Mexico for granted by playing slow first half to conserve energy for second half. Mexican goal made them play, pity it didnt come earlier in 2nd half.

1-1 before peno and with the way the Dutch were playing up to then, I think they'd have scored again. Better team the Dutch in 2nd half, Mexicans time was first half. That Dutch goal was a bullet, much better than Mexicos.

The Dutch should win next game in evening time, Costa Rica were not great today. Greek team were much better.

VEN

i do notice though how liverpool and everton supporters dislike the dutch, now why would that be? lol

VEN

VEN wrote: »

i do notice though how liverpool and everton supporters dislike the dutch, now why would that be? lol

Dirk Kuyt? :pac:

pandaboy

Feck Robben's penalty! What about that first Dutch goal. Classic little set piece, and great to see Sneijder grabbing a goal for himself. Super assist as well. I was very sorry to see Mexico go out. Being honest I thought they played better than the Dutch, especially for the system the Netherlands were using. A good game of tit for tat, and Kuyt was phenomenal. Probably one of the best players for Netherlands. I thought RVP was mediocre for the potential he has, and how he played against Spain and Australia.

Rayne Wooney

VEN wrote: »

No, i think its at 9pm our time (5pm) yesterdays game was at 1pm their time.

They did well in that heat, they took Mexico for granted by playing slow first half to conserve energy for second half. Mexican goal made them play, pity it didnt come earlier in 2nd half.

1-1 before peno and with the way the Dutch were playing up to then, I think they'd have scored again. Better team the Dutch in 2nd half, Mexicans time was first half. That Dutch goal was a bullet, much better than Mexicos.

The Dutch should win next game in evening time, Costa Rica were not great today. Greek team were much better.

Ya you are right I got the time zones mixed up

An evening kick off should let the Dutch play a better system and not have to worry so much about the conditions, unlike the way they played in the first half today. I think they will go through

764dak

There are so many similarities:

29th of June
Portuguese ref
Early goal in the second half by Mexico
Late turnaround

Augmerson

Robben admits to diving in the match, just not for the penalty.

Refs take note. He tries it again next match he should be carded straight away.

Benimar

Augmerson wrote: »

Robben admits to diving in the match, just not for the penalty.

Refs take note. He tries it again next match he should be carded straight away.

I wonder if the ref had booked Robben for the earlier dive, which he should have, would Robben have been so quick to go down for the penalty?

Maybe, maybe not, but it shows a potential consequence of not booking players for diving. In fairness to Robben, throughout the tournament refs seem reluctant to yellow card divers. FIFA policy maybe?

dundalkfc10

Benimar wrote: »

I wonder if the ref had booked Robben for the earlier dive, which he should have, would Robben have been so quick to go down for the penalty?

Maybe, maybe not, but it shows a potential consequence of not booking players for diving. In fairness to Robben, throughout the tournament refs seem reluctant to yellow card divers. FIFA policy maybe?

Players dont get booked for diving any more it seems, so there obvs gonna try it all the time

Invertpyramid

players shouldn't be booked for diving. It's too difficult to spot during the game and the punishment of a single yellow card isn't enough. A video panel should examine a player after the game and hand out match bans if he has been diving.

LuckyLloyd

No - one waltzes through a World Cup. People forget Spain / Paraguay from the last tournament. The Dutch ground it out yesterday in obscene conditions. It was ugly at times and controversial in the end but they got the ****ing job done.

I thought Kuyt was ever more effective as the game wore on. Started forcing corners / frees and helped to ratchet up the pressure.

Costa Rica winning last night was a nice reward too.

gosplan

Benimar wrote: »

I wonder if the ref had booked Robben for the earlier dive, which he should have, would Robben have been so quick to go down for the penalty?

Maybe, maybe not, but it shows a potential consequence of not booking players for diving. In fairness to Robben, throughout the tournament refs seem reluctant to yellow card divers. FIFA policy maybe?

I reckon it's a clear case of him admitting to a lesser offence to take the limelight off the winning penalty.

After Suarez, there would be big pressure on FIFA to do something about the important issues in the game, like profiting from cheating.

I really hope that the final is won by a blatant dive, just so something might be put in place. They'd probably just sweep it under the rug though.

TheDoc

The outrage in terms of Robben is ridiculous.

First have he took two tackles in the one segment of play that should have been penalties. MArquez into the back of this heel, then the other CB coming in nearly two footed.

Then another two times, Robben rode rough challenges darting into the box. Until then finally getting fouled agai, this time correctly getting his penalty.

He should have got about three before he actually got it, so all this rubbish about him diving, yeah he's theatrical, but it is evidently apparant that he doesn't receive fair treatment so I can understand him being over the top when it comes to being tackled.

If referees could actually give penatlies when required, maybe players wouldn't need to dive, fact of the matter is referees miss TOO many incidents in the box so I'm not suprised players are acting the way they are.

And to be honest this has been a real throwback world cup. Clearly referees are under instruction to give a little leeway, cause there is some belting tackles and stuff going on, absolutely loving it.

The return of the shoulder to shoulder, without it being a foul, is a really nice return of old physicality

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No - one waltzes through a World Cup. People forget Spain / Paraguay from the last tournament. The Dutch ground it out yesterday in obscene conditions. It was ugly at times and controversial in the end but they got the ****ing job done.

I thought Kuyt was ever more effective as the game wore on. Started forcing corners / frees and helped to ratchet up the pressure.

Costa Rica winning last night was a nice reward too.

Yeah, I was very surprised that Kuyt lasted the pace so well actually. What is he 34 now? He was probably the standout player in those final ten minutes when the Dutch were bombing forward looking for the equalizer.

I thought he'd be one of the first to wilt given his age and complexion but as LL says he was the man who was making things happen and forced the corner that led to the equalizer.

On Robben, it's unfortunate that he is so fond of diving as it tends to dominate any conversation about him. In truth he's been one of if not the best performer at this World Cup and is really enjoyable to watch when in full flow.

inforfun

It was Kuyt's 100th cap yesterday, exactly 7 years on the day he lost his father.

Of all Dutch players who have 100 caps behind their name, he did the fastest, 9 years after making his debut. His first cap was when he was 24 already.

He was very important in 2010 for the Dutch team and he was immense yesterday. Starting on the left, moved to the right when Verhaegh was taken of, ending up everywhere where he was needed in the last 15.

weisses

TheDoc wrote: »

The outrage in terms of Robben is ridiculous.

First have he took two tackles in the one segment of play that should have been penalties. MArquez into the back of this heel, then the other CB coming in nearly two footed.

Moreno actually broke his own leg with that tackle

smileyj1987

Augmerson wrote: »

Robben admits to diving in the match, just not for the penalty.

Refs take note. He tries it again next match he should be carded straight away.

I wouldn't card him , I would ban him . If he can openly admit what he did then he should be banned . It feels cheap for a team to be cheated by a player who dives .

weisses

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I wouldn't card him , I would ban him . If he can openly admit what he did then he should be banned . It feels cheap for a team to be cheated by a player who dives .

There is so much going on during a match that goes unnoticed that would be considered foul play ... there wouldn't be many players left playing in the world cup if they all admitted what they had done during a match and get banned for being truthful in the process

At least he had the balls to admit it after the match .. and stating he wasn't happy with it either

CatFromHue

TheDoc wrote: »

The outrage in terms of Robben is ridiculous.

First have he took two tackles in the one segment of play that should have been penalties. MArquez into the back of this heel, then the other CB coming in nearly two footed.

Then another two times, Robben rode rough challenges darting into the box. Until then finally getting fouled agai, this time correctly getting his penalty.

He should have got about three before he actually got it, so all this rubbish about him diving, yeah he's theatrical, but it is evidently apparant that he doesn't receive fair treatment so I can understand him being over the top when it comes to being tackled.

If referees could actually give penatlies when required, maybe players wouldn't need to dive, fact of the matter is referees miss TOO many incidents in the box so I'm not suprised players are acting the way they are.

And to be honest this has been a real throwback world cup. Clearly referees are under instruction to give a little leeway, cause there is some belting tackles and stuff going on, absolutely loving it.

The return of the shoulder to shoulder, without it being a foul, is a really nice return of old physicality

Yup it's the refs fault players dive........

smileyj1987

weisses wrote: »

There is so much going on during a match that goes unnoticed that would be considered foul play ... there wouldn't be many players left playing in the world cup if they all admitted what they had done during a match and get banned for being truthful in the process

At least he had the balls to admit it after the match .. and stating he wasn't happy with it either

Well if FIFA and the world are serious about diving then they need to start banning players for it . It will stamp it out of the game for sure .

VEN

he wasn't referring to the peno foul though, clearly a foul. the brazil peno in first game of this wc, now that was a joke