Germany vs Algeria 9pm / Mon 30th

Say Your Number

Billy86 wrote: »

It's more than just one of them, the whole old boys club are useless.

And if you don't like reading about a terrible pundit being called a terrible pundit, feel free to use the ignore feature.

Actually your point of view is fair enough, it's just you keep posting essentially the same thing over and over again, I could nearly write your posts out for you at this stage, if someone winds me up that much I tend avoid them as much as possible or I'd lose my mind completely, anyway good luck to ya.

Billy86

Say Your Number wrote: »

Actually your point of view is fair enough, it's just you keep posting essentially the same thing over and over again, I could nearly write your posts out for you at this stage, if someone winds me up that much I tend avoid them as much as possible or I'd lose my mind completely, anyway good luck to ya.

I just point out when they make tits of themselves, not my fault it happens pretty much every time they appear on screen.

Say Your Number

Billy86 wrote: »

I just point out when they make tits of themselves, not my fault it happens pretty much every time they appear on screen.

But it is your fault you don't have a remote :pac:

Billy86

Say Your Number wrote: »

But it is your fault you don't have a remote :pac:

I've got a remote... But UTV isn't on Sky Digital and my reception for it has been awful since around Easter for some reason.

I'm just getting eager for RTE to push forward with Richie and Darragh (and even Kenny despite his robotics... now him and Richie, there's a funny dynamic :pac: ). If they managed to get Didi an/or Bead (after his retirement which surely has to come after this season) the coverage on RTE would probably be the best anywhere in the UK or Ireland, revamped Sky included. And of course Kerr in commentary, not too fond of him as a pundit but he is absolutely brilliant as a commentator, rambling away like a madman. A very, very relaxed madman.

si makhlouf

eagle eye wrote: »

I think the Germans win it easily enough, Algeria have talent but lack physicality imo.

Never ever underestimate the Algerian spirit and their " Grinta"
One Two Three Viva l'Algérie

Say Your Number

Billy86 wrote: »

I've got a remote... But UTV isn't on Sky Digital and my reception for it has been awful since around Easter for some reason.

I'm just getting eager for RTE to push forward with Richie and Darragh (and even Kenny despite his robotics... now him and Richie, there's a funny dynamic :pac: ).:D

I think time is about to do that anyway, I know people don't like Giles cos he knows nothing outside England, but he's still brilliant at breaking down what he sees in front of him, yesterday with 10 minutes to go Bill said that he said Mexico are in trouble and he was proven right, I think he's worth keeping on for that alone, although he'll probably be gone by the next World Cup.

Dunphy does make good points at times but talks a lot of sh1te too, it probably will be Kenny and Richie shouting at each other for the next 30 years, I liked Friedel and Didi's done ever so well, would be great if they had either of those on a regular basis in the future.

Anyway this is probably a discussion for the other thread.

simongurnick

Would have LOVED if they nabbed a second at the end! Great tournament for Algeria, reminds me of Ireland's past World Cup heroics.

Ardillaun

In general, I like Germans but I'll root for any soccer team playing them. I find Muller particularly annoying. This poses a problem because I've picked them to win this year so I'm in a state of turmoil when they play.

Davei141

Ardillaun wrote: »

In general, I like Germans but I'll root for any soccer team playing them. I find Muller particularly annoying. This poses a problem because I've picked them to win this year so I'm in a state of turmoil when they play.

How can you dislike Muller?

Gringo180

Ozil was brilliant last night even tho he was playing out of position.

OdgeXD

Feel for Algeria, they really went for it and probably should have been up at half time and played a very different game from then on. Best 90 minutes of the tournament so far pretty much non-stop from both teams, great stuff. Hopefully France v Germany doesn't turn into a borefest although that might suit the Germans since they've had a few hard games in the toughest conditions so far.

Ozil must have really pulled something out in extra time, he was awful over 90 mins..

GBXI

Gringo180 wrote: »

Ozil was brilliant last night even tho he was playing out of position.

Not sure if this is a joke or not! Anyway, I don't understand how he starts for Germany. I only watched the 90mins but he was so poor (for a man who cost €42m), particularly his first touch.

efb

Mesut Ozil - 1 goal, 4 chances created in open play & 88% pass accuracy with all 59/67 completed in the middle or final third.

briany

The pattern that seems to be emerging here is that of the weaker team giving it gusto for 90 mins, getting the moral victory therein, but having the legs go from under them. Nigeria, Chile, Algeria and Mexico have suffered from this, so it might stand them in better stead to play a cagey game to conserve energy. Not a tactic that would do much for the neutrals but I don't think teams would care if it gets them through.

farna_boy

GBXI wrote: »

Not sure if this is a joke or not! Anyway, I don't understand how he starts for Germany. I only watched the 90mins but he was so poor (for a man who cost €42m), particularly his first touch.

One goal and 67 passes with 88% accuracy would say otherwise.

thelad95

briany wrote: »

The pattern that seems to be emerging here is that of the weaker team giving it gusto for 90 mins, getting the moral victory therein, but having the legs go from under them. Nigeria, Chile, Algeria and Mexico have suffered from this, so it might stand them in better stead to play a cagey game to conserve energy. Not a tactic that would do much for the neutrals but I don't think teams would care if it gets them through.

It's never a good idea to sit back for 90 minutes. Germany,Netherlands, France would break you down eventually anyway. Those 3 have received massive rattlings which may stand to them as the tournament progresses.

Gringo180

GBXI wrote: »

Not sure if this is a joke or not! Anyway, I don't understand how he starts for Germany. I only watched the 90mins but he was so poor (for a man who cost €42m), particularly his first touch.

Goetze in particular was absolutely shocking but it always seems to be Ozil is made the scapegoat, dont ask me why but its perhaps his body language on the pitch in that he looks disinterested or lazy. As the stats tell you he was one of Germanys better players last night.

efb

farna_boy wrote: »

One goal and 67 passes with 88% accuracy would say otherwise.

They don't like facts

OdgeXD

farna_boy wrote: »

One goal and 67 passes with 88% accuracy would say otherwise.

And 5 of those passes are over 6 yards. He was awful going forward, didn't get back at all and got incredibly lucky with the goal where his idiotic decision to pass instead of scoring a tap-in would have led to penalties had he not got lucky with the rebound.

He had a poor game, has had a poor WC, on the back of a poor season. Seems like Real made a good bit of business.

efb

OdgeXD wrote: »

And 5 of those passes are over 6 yards. He was awful going forward, didn't get back at all and got incredibly lucky with the goal where his idiotic decision to pass instead of scoring a tap-in would have led to penalties had he not got lucky with the rebound.

He had a poor game, has had a poor WC, on the back of a poor season. Seems like Real made a good bit of business.

Sure.

eagle eye

Gringo180 wrote: »

Goetze in particular was absolutely shocking but it always seems to be Ozil is made the scapegoat, dont ask me why but its perhaps his body language on the pitch in that he looks disinterested or lazy. As the stats tell you he was one of Germanys better players last night.

Where are those stats from? Do they show how many times he lost the ball?

efb

English football fans don't like the laid back style over substance, creative play of the talented European footballer. They prefer a guy chasing a ball around the field for 90 minutes with a few industrial tackles to let the opposition know 'he's there'

It was the same with Pires, but ask Patrick Viera, he will advise who is fave midfielder was at Arsenal

tayto lover

OdgeXD wrote: »

And 5 of those passes are over 6 yards. He was awful going forward, didn't get back at all and got incredibly lucky with the goal where his idiotic decision to pass instead of scoring a tap-in would have led to penalties had he not got lucky with the rebound.

He had a poor game, has had a poor WC, on the back of a poor season. Seems like Real made a good bit of business.

Sounds like you just don't like him.
I saw him covering back loads of times in the game. Plus he covered more ground than any other German bar one who covered the same distance as him. His short passing shows the tactic for the game i.e. keep the ball. I saw many wild long passes by players on both sides BUT just criticize for the sake of it.
Ozil was excellent. He played to his manager's instructions and out of position but his stats prove my points and not yours.

jester77

eagle eye wrote: »

Where are those stats from? Do they show how many times he lost the ball?

8 times he lost the ball

efb

tayto lover wrote: »

Sounds like you just don't like him.
I saw him covering back loads of times in the game. Plus he covered more ground than any other German bar one who covered the same distance as him. His short passing shows the tactic for the game i.e. keep the ball. I saw many wild long passes by players on both sides BUT just criticize for the sake of it.
Ozil was excellent. He played to his manager's instructions and out of position but his stats prove my points and not yours.

Imagine being able to play out of position!

Alfred Borden

If scoring a goal and sending your team to a quarter final of a world cup is "useless" ill happy have him
Suarez against Italy was terrible, far worse than Ozil last night but he went and did something stupid and took the spotlight off his mediocre performance.

eagle eye

jester77 wrote: »

8 times he lost the ball

And at least two them turned into dangerous attacks, do you have a number for that? This is what I was talking about last night, he was dispossessed a couple of times that led to the Algerians getting right through at the other end and it was stupidity on his part that caused it.

tayto lover

Raf32 wrote: »

If scoring a goal and sending your team to a quarter final of a world cup is "useless" ill happy have him
Suarez against Italy was terrible, far worse than Ozil last night but he went and did something stupid and took the spotlight off his mediocre performance.

In fairness to Suarez though he did well against England but then again he had a good man knocking the ball on for him.

Gringo180

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness to Suarez though he did well against England but then again he had a good man knocking the ball on for him.

Even topped his pass to Henry in the Euros that cost England the game v France :pac:

EuropeanSon

OdgeXD wrote: »

got incredibly lucky with the goal where his idiotic decision to pass instead of scoring a tap-in would have led to penalties had he not got lucky with the rebound.
.

Wow. He passed to a guy with a tap in, leaving the keeper stranded. It was 110% the correct move, and showed what a composed, unselfish player he is.

He then finished calmly when the guy who did miss a sitter fluffed his lines.


Criticise his second half all you want, I won't disagree, but his play for that goal was absolutely perfect.

OdgeXD

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Wow. He passed to a guy with a tap in, leaving the keeper stranded. It was 110% the correct move, and showed what a composed, unselfish player he is.

He then finished calmly when the guy who did miss a sitter fluffed his lines.


Criticise his second half all you want, I won't disagree, but his play for that goal was absolutely perfect.

I'm sorry but it definitely wasn't the right decision, he had a completely open goal with the keeper already stranded and all he had to do was tap it in, he passed it because his first touch was so bad. He could have cost Germany the game.

Suryavarman

OdgeXD wrote: »

I'm sorry but it definitely wasn't the right decision, he had a completely open goal with the keeper already stranded and all he had to do was tap it in. He could have cost Germany the game.

The keeper was closing him down and two Algerian players where rushing back towards the goal line making it far from an open goal. I suggest that you watch the goal again.

He could have cost Germany the game if he tried the shot first time and sent it wide allowing Algeria to score from the resulting goal kick.

efb

OdgeXD wrote: »

I'm sorry but it definitely wasn't the right decision, he had a completely open goal with the keeper already stranded and all he had to do was tap it in, he passed it because his first touch was so bad. He could have cost Germany the game.

His play resulted in the goal.

GLaDOS

Ozil did very well for the goal, drew the keeper out and gave his team mate an easy finish, not his fault it was fluffed.

farna_boy

OdgeXD wrote: »

I'm sorry but it definitely wasn't the right decision, he had a completely open goal with the keeper already stranded and all he had to do was tap it in, he passed it because his first touch was so bad. He could have cost Germany the game.

Well considering he actually did score then it was the right decision. If he had missed or if Schurle had missed you could argue otherwise but since a goal was scored because of the decision he made, then it can't have been a wrong decision.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

OdgeXD wrote: »

I'm sorry but it definitely wasn't the right decision, he had a completely open goal with the keeper already stranded and all he had to do was tap it in, he passed it because his first touch was so bad. He could have cost Germany the game.

He passed it because there was the keeper in front of him and 2 defenders looking to block a shot. It was definitely the correct decision.

The keeper wasn't stranded at all, until he passed

Corholio

Gringo180 wrote: »

Goetze in particular was absolutely shocking but it always seems to be Ozil is made the scapegoat, dont ask me why but its perhaps his body language on the pitch in that he looks disinterested or lazy. As the stats tell you he was one of Germanys better players last night.

Stats can tell a lot but also not tell as well. No way was he one of Germanys best players last night. A goal at the end of extra time doesn't mask that he was quite ineffective in the final third. Goetze was rubbish too by the way, no scapegoating Ozil at all as always seems to be his defence.

I say this as an Ozil fan too, I love the way he plays but he can be quite erratic in his performances. He was the same at Real, despite people ignoring it.

Dolph Starbeam

jester77 wrote: »

8 times he lost the ball

Does 8 missed passes mean he lost the ball 8 times? That doesn't include times he was tackled and lost the ball does it?

I don't think Ozil was excellent like some suggest, but he was definitely not Germanys worst player, his decision making at times last night looked terrible.

Lahm had a very poor game in my opinion, he was way too attacking for someone who should have been sitting in front of his defenders.

GBXI

Gringo180 wrote: »

Goetze in particular was absolutely shocking but it always seems to be Ozil is made the scapegoat, dont ask me why but its perhaps his body language on the pitch in that he looks disinterested or lazy. As the stats tell you he was one of Germanys better players last night.

There is no scapegoat, Germany beat a good Algerian team in a very competitive match.

The point I'm making I suppose is that, having seen very little of Ozil before his move to Arsenal, and then all the fanfare that came with his move (obviously not his fault) he hasn't been as impressive I thought he would. Watching him at the World Cup has emphasised this for me. Overall, he seems a very good player and an addition to the Arsenal team, just not the great player I was expecting.

efb

Corholio wrote: »

Stats can tell a lot but also not tell as well. No way was he one of Germanys best players last night. A goal at the end of extra time doesn't mask that he was quite ineffective in the final third. Goetze was rubbish too by the way, no scapegoating Ozil at all as always seems to be his defence.

I say this as an Ozil fan too, I love the way he plays but he can be quite erratic in his performances. He was the same at Real, despite people ignoring it.

What don't stats tell exactly?

Nuri Sahin

Soups123 wrote: »

Tbh he could have a stormer it's the same posters every game he's played its tiresome at this stage

Not at all. I've rarely commented on Ozil in fact, until today's game. Just calling it how I see it. Immensely talented, but goes missing for large spells of the games/seasons for club and country, unless he has the attacking riches of Real Madrid surround him seemingly. He has not reached the levels he did in 2010 for country or anywhere near it, that is why his position has been under threat for a long time. Gotze has been crap so far (he is playing out of position only for Ozil or does it count for Gotze too who has played a fair amount out wide so far?)

Up until extra time, even throughout extra time up to the moment he scored, Ozil was at best a C grade of performance.

To turn this around, I'd say the same Arsenal fans in all the Germany games have been insecure about any criticism towards him, so have continually mentioned how 'he's (Ozil) is having a good game'. Wade through the threads if you don't believe me, if you have the time. The continual rambling about Gerrard in this thread is further proof of this. Clearly being done as a wind up, nothing more or less. Not that I find it irritating, more I find it amusing. As I said yesterday, native German media and fans were criticising him too (and he wasn't the only one), but yet, anyone who criticises him is seemingly anti-Arsenal or anti-Ozil? Riiiiiiight.

bossdga

Nice performance from Algeria and great championship

Corholio

efb wrote: »

What don't stats tell exactly?

Lots of things. Decisions on passes, control of a game, overlapping a player with the ball etc. I don't think Ozil was crap or anything like that, but he certainly was not brilliant or one of Germany's best players. I have absolutely no reason to criticise him only on what I see in a game. Don't know why such criticism, and it's certainly not only the posters on boards, is met with blind praise of a display that wasn't there.

People ignored all the times he used to be subbed at Real, there was a reason for it if you insist on including stats.

EuropeanSon

Corholio wrote: »

Lots of things. Decisions on passes, control of a game, overlapping a player with the ball etc. I don't think Ozil was crap or anything like that, but he certainly was not brilliant or one of Germany's best players. I have absolutely no reason to criticise him only on what I see in a game. Don't know why such criticism, and it's certainly not only the posters on boards, is met with blind praise of a display that wasn't there.

People ignored all the times he used to be subbed at Real, there was a reason for it if you insist on including stats.

To be fair, most of Germany's players were not impressive at all. He was one of their better players in the match (when you consider the good first half and excellent goal), but that says very little.

efb

Corholio wrote: »

Lots of things. Decisions on passes, control of a game, overlapping a player with the ball etc. I don't think Ozil was crap or anything like that, but he certainly was not brilliant or one of Germany's best players. I have absolutely no reason to criticise him only on what I see in a game. Don't know why such criticism, and it's certainly not only the posters on boards, is met with blind praise of a display that wasn't there.

People ignored all the times he used to be subbed at Real, there was a reason for it if you insist on including stats.

Surely they can be measured too?

Also I don't think he had a 'great' game- he'd a good first half and ET and well taken goal

SantryRed

There's over exaggeration in both directions regarding Ozil's performance. From what I know you would expect from him, and from what is expected in the position he is playing, I'd say he was average last night.

farna_boy

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Not at all. I've rarely commented on Ozil in fact, until today's game. Just calling it how I see it. Immensely talented, but goes missing for large spells of the games/seasons for club and country, unless he has the attacking riches of Real Madrid surround him seemingly. He has not reached the levels he did in 2010 for country or anywhere near it, that is why his position has been under threat for a long time. Gotze has been crap so far (he is playing out of position only for Ozil or does it count for Gotze too who has played a fair amount out wide so far?)

Up until extra time, even throughout extra time up to the moment he scored, Ozil was at best a C grade of performance.

To turn this around, I'd say the same Arsenal fans in all the Germany games have been insecure about any criticism towards him, so have continually mentioned how 'he's (Ozil) is having a good game'. Wade through the threads if you don't believe me, if you have the time. The continual rambling about Gerrard in this thread is further proof of this. Clearly being done as a wind up, nothing more or less. Not that I find it irritating, more I find it amusing. As I said yesterday, native German media and fans were criticising him too (and he wasn't the only one), but yet, anyone who criticises him is seemingly anti-Arsenal or anti-Ozil? Riiiiiiight.

I don't think you are right about Arsenal fans being insecure about him or just defending him because he is an Arsenal player. Because of his label of being "the best number 10 in the world", people expect him to play a certain way and have certain expectations about him. I had never seen him play to any large extent and was only made aware of this label sometime after he started when rival fans started throwing it about the place.

After watching him for the last season, I like a lot of other Arsenal fans, know what to expect of him and his style of play. He is exceptionally good at what he does but a lot of what he does can go unnoticed as he is not the Henry type of player who will run at people or say a Toure type who will go in, make a tackle, win the ball and go on a storming run.

Ozil instead will just pick out that one crucial pass that will open up the game or allow someone else to score. Because he makes those types of passes though, he can appear to give the ball away frequently and have a bad game. I think his body language also gives people a really bad impression and makes it look like he doesn't care but that is only people's perception and I'm not sure he can do a lot about that.

Saying all that, he didn't have his best game last night but was one of the better German players, in a fairly average German side that turned up last night. His stats show that despite how people expect a £42M player to play.

aodea

Ozil did some things well last night and some things poorly. he is somewhat out of his comfort zone in that team. i have to admit i feel he has gone a little backwards at arsenal. He seemed to do things quicker such as carrying and moving the ball at real. he is asked to play a differnt style at arsenal so maybe it is taking him a little while to adjust.

On his day he is an extremly talented player and capable of splitting defences and picking passes that are out of this world.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Another thing to note, and a problem for him last season when Walcott was out. Is that he works best playing with players with pace to make runs. Germany lack this at the minute, especially noticeable last night.

Ardillaun

I thought Algeria played the right game, exposing the German defenders' RELATIVE lack of pace on counter attacks. There was one race for the ball where I thought the Algerian could have challenged Neuer more robustly. Still, they showed a lot of excellent ball control and passing skills and were significantly better than I expected.

I don't care for Muller's smirking and play-acting but his positional sense was superb and he kept running after the Algerians right until the end. He's always where he should be. At this level, he shows a stronger level of commitment than RvP or any of the other remaining finishers in the competition....in my opinion, based on years of watching rugby.