Farmer seeks Jobbridge Labourer

J.O. Farmer

The problem with job bridge is that the extra allowance is only €50. Could this be increased to say €298 or whatever it is to bring a participants income to €500 based on a single person receiving the basic rate of social welfare. This person would then be earning a combined income on which they could be taxed. It would provide an employer with a chance to take somebody on at a low cost with the view to training somebody for a longer term position. The employee would gain experience and a fair wage and ppossibly a job at the end. The government would gain tax.
If they wanted to make it easier for the employer they could make them exempt from paying employer PRSI on the participants behalf for the duration of the scheme and for a period of say six months after if they keep on the employee.

sandydan

kevthegaff wrote: »

The girlfriend from poland is on jobsbridge with an accountancy firm, from the sounds of things it seems complete exoloitation, long hours while doing her exams. Shes not allowed her phone at work, and is dealing with clients as uf shes fully qualified,. Theres a small amount of irish employers are complete s**ts incl farmers especially to foreign workers. Can anything be done about it??

not being allowed phone is quite normal and would normally be flagged at interview stage,dealing with clients is normal policy as well as being supervised on camera.know a few got that kind of work in banks credit unions etc and being expected to perform professionally as its termed is par for course.being taken on and not getting client contact and told to clean ashtrays and sweep floors and fill photocopier with paper while other deal with clients is hated worse. i was lucky to get office work experience a while back and it was office work,another who got work experience same course was delivering coal ,scraping paint off walls, driving forklifts(no permit) and washing yards, when asked to submit report by course coordinator they couldn't and got red ears for not checking out if getting correct work experience.its a learning experience.

tayto lover

I wonder could I get one ?

...... the successful candidate will learn how to make beds, sweep and mop floors, hoover sitting-rooms, make tea for the boss and maybe do a small bit of painting ... .......


Sounds good ...........and cheap.

sandydan

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

The problem with job bridge is that the extra allowance is only €50. Could this be increased to say €298 or whatever it is to bring a participants income to €500 based on a single person receiving the basic rate of social welfare. This person would then be earning a combined income on which they could be taxed. It would provide an employer with a chance to take somebody on at a low cost with the view to training somebody for a longer term position. The employee would gain experience and a fair wage and ppossibly a job at the end. The government would gain tax.
If they wanted to make it easier for the employer they could make them exempt from paying employer PRSI on the participants behalf for the duration of the scheme and for a period of say six months after if they keep on the employee.

id settle for rate paid before J Burton changed it ,it was basic JSB now it's means tested rate +€50 .its same rate for ce and rss schemes present rate +€50 as it included usc contribution and stamp and there is no justification for employer PRSI contribution,i think its 8% but may be more,

sandydan

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder could I get one ?

...... the successful candidate will learn how to make beds, sweep and mop floors, hoover sitting-rooms, make tea for the boss and maybe do a small bit of painting ... .......


Sounds good ...........and cheap.

is she ......tall .....friendly....likes nail varnish? sure not a bother: a boss you mean:D

tayto lover

sandydan wrote: »

is she ......tall .....friendly....likes nail varnish? sure not a bother: a boss you mean:D

I could throw in another 50 if she's boss material

whelan2

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder could I get one ?

...... the successful candidate will learn how to make beds, sweep and mop floors, hoover sitting-rooms, make tea for the boss and maybe do a small bit of painting ... .......


Sounds good ...........and cheap.

it would be handy to get one for picking ragworth;)

sandydan

tayto lover wrote: »

I could throw in another 50 if she's boss material

good to see your heart or wallet is in right ......pla...ce:D:D

sandydan

whelan2 wrote: »

it would be handy to get one for picking ragworth;)

guess youd ..supply the rubb...er :pac: glo..ves then

tomwaterford

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder could I get one ?

...... the successful candidate will learn how to make beds, sweep and mop floors, hoover sitting-rooms, make tea for the boss and maybe do a small bit of painting ... .......


Sounds good ...........and cheap.

whelan2 wrote: »

it would be handy to get one for picking ragworth;)

the sad thing...the two of yous probably could get one...all you have to do is big up the job description
ive seen ones for milkers and for people to work on sheep farms

whelan2

tomwaterford wrote: »

the sad thing...the two of yous probably could get one...all you have to do is big up the job description
ive seen ones for milkers and for people to work on sheep farms

i like pulling ragworth,like to see some progress for what i am doing, i was joking in my post:rolleyes:

tomwaterford

whelan2 wrote: »

i like pulling ragworth,like to see some progress for what i am doing, i was joking in my post:rolleyes:

get into sheep.....youll not see ragwort again :cool::cool:
(or money:pac::pac:)

whelan2

tomwaterford wrote: »

get into sheep.....youll not see ragwort again :cool::cool:
(or money:pac::pac:)

mmm did the sheep thing in spring 2013 , near ended in a mental home, no grass no growth, no silage

tomwaterford

whelan2 wrote: »

mmm did the sheep thing in spring 2013 , near ended in a mental home, no grass no growth, no silage

you were doing it right so:P

all joking aside...no one wants to ever see a return to spring 2013

"work on their own initiative" - Aren't they supposed to be "Mentored"? As other posters have said, there are some worthwhile Internships, this aint one.

sandydan

Deleted User wrote: »

"work on their own initiative" - Aren't they supposed to be "Mentored"? As other posters have said, there are some worthwhile Internships, this aint one.

lots of them are meaningless ,a publisher lost their right to take on interns a while back. sent intern-staff to report on some story without supervision, boys complained to dept and featured on news a few weeks later. meaningless punishment in my opinion

Farmer Pudsey

sandydan wrote: »

ok how much of that €632 is prsi related which is a tax on employment, when i started work i paid an insurance and stamp and insurance covered medical costs as public patient.but thats useless nowadays ,had stomach probe a while back had vhi,as public patient would wait 2 years, got it in 6 weeks.personally i worked for 42 years and was made redundant a few years back due to rationalization,so tried all jobs .most went well until interview came,and ageism became apparent,was asked by one lady if sure i was under 70 as insurance didn't cover,when stamps ran out farm assist was only option minus means,which doesn,t include depreciation,among other things. tried various ce schemes and was told off record they take young ones to get them used to working .its soul destroying to say least.

Half PRSI and half holiday pay. It is grand to complain about employers PRSI but the reality is that it is not going to change. I agree that in rural Ireland it is hard to to get work. However in larger urban area's there is not the same issue. In reality most employers now try to employ foreign nationals at lower end of wage scale especially in urban area's.

The other reality is too many depend on other to create work for them and are then unhappy with the outcome. I see some complaining about farmers as employers, however when you work in a low margin business it is very hard to pay a wage that may be a higher rate/hour than farmer earns especially when holidays and PRSI are taken into account.

In reality the PAYE system gives the government access to too much money too easy. If all employees had to make there own tax returns you would be amazed how the system would change. You would also see a marked change in voting patterns, and in acceptance of the system. I do not agree with the US system however the European cradle to grave system has gone too far the other way.

The other reality is that for long term unemployed we have the most generous welfare system in Europe. It is not just money but non monetary benefits and waivers from social charges.

I was shocked today to hear that there are 780K people that have bus passes . Private operators are now unwilling to accept these as it is not viable to continue carrying those that use the system.

sandydan

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Half PRSI and half holiday pay. It is grand to complain about employers PRSI but the reality is that it is not going to change. I agree that in rural Ireland it is hard to to get work. However in larger urban area's there is not the same issue. In reality most employers now try to employ foreign nationals at lower end of wage scale especially in urban area's.

The other reality is too many depend on other to create work for them and are then unhappy with the outcome. I see some complaining about farmers as employers, however when you work in a low margin business it is very hard to pay a wage that may be a higher rate/hour than farmer earns especially when holidays and PRSI are taken into account.

In reality the PAYE system gives the government access to too much money too easy. If all employees had to make there own tax returns you would be amazed how the system would change. You would also see a marked change in voting patterns, and in acceptance of the system. I do not agree with the US system however the European cradle to grave system has gone too far the other way.

The other reality is that for long term unemployed we have the most generous welfare system in Europe. It is not just money but non monetary benefits and waivers from social charges.

I was shocked today to hear that there are 780K people that have bus passes . Private operators are now unwilling to accept these as it is not viable to continue carrying those that use the system.

that fig 0f 780k includes ,deaf blind ,soc impaired ,wheelchair and whole lot more who cant physically use the pass. what i hear is cie gets a ball park fig for those passes and dont log the number transported ,just flash card to driver,-should be scanned and recorded and paid accordingly same goes the school transport and the tendering for it is unbelievable,allegedly by one ex-driver he alleged its like banking money. in light of what PR is used in industry what else would private operators say to get pay rise.if you think for one minute im exaggerating just take a look at what the Temoporary Manager appointed by the HSE to the Central Remedial Clinic found out about their financial activities .in light of some allegation of bribery to senior cie staff i believe him now, not back 2 years ago when told first.. he compared it to TDs unvouched expenses.
a few weeks ago spoke to a plumber and a digger owner who are owed a lot of money by farmers and business men .claims everyone now is not afraid or ashamed to preach poverty when asked for money .they ring looking for work to be done and then claim poverty,bull****,they go on holidays change cars tractors and machinery yet they leave silage contractors and oters with massive bills and enjoy life .pay wages to themselves out of farms and business set up under company titles similar to cowboy builders, go into court after winding up companies and plead inability to pay.and let others with massive paye and leasing bills, who are sometimes forced to mortgage their own homes to pay suppliers, with family to educate and feed and god knows what else .time company law in this country was changed and the nod and wink politicians given the boot if we dont want to see another south american type system of corruption take over in this country completely.

Farmer Pudsey

sandydan wrote: »

that fig 0f 780k includes ,deaf blind ,soc impaired ,wheelchair and whole lot more who cant physically use the pass. what i hear is cie gets a ball park fig for those passes and dont log the number transported ,just flash card to driver,-should be scanned and recorded and paid accordingly same goes the school transport and the tendering for it is unbelievable,allegedly by one ex-driver he alleged its like banking money. in light of what PR is used in industry what else would private operators say to get pay rise.if you think for one minute im exaggerating just take a look at what the Temoporary Manager appointed by the HSE to the Central Remedial Clinic found out about their financial activities .in light of some allegation of bribery to senior cie staff i believe him now, not back 2 years ago when told first.. he compared it to TDs unvouched expenses.
a few weeks ago spoke to a plumber and a digger owner who are owed a lot of money by farmers and business men .claims everyone now is not afraid or ashamed to preach poverty when asked for money .they ring looking for work to be done and then claim poverty,bull****,they go on holidays change cars tractors and machinery yet they leave silage contractors and oters with massive bills and enjoy life .pay wages to themselves out of farms and business set up under company titles similar to cowboy builders, go into court after winding up companies and plead inability to pay.and let others with massive paye and leasing bills, who are sometimes forced to mortgage their own homes to pay suppliers, with family to educate and feed and god knows what else .time company law in this country was changed and the nod and wink politicians given the boot if we dont want to see another south american type system of corruption take over in this country completely.

You have corruption in all walks of life. Yes there is a core that have issue with paying bills. It is very easy to preach about it. However if you look a all the Dairy farmers that had issue's afte the spring in 2013 and this year it is the hammering that finishers have taken over the winter. There is residual ration bills to be cleared.

On your point about silage contractors and machinery drives complaining about some farmers not paying, how often do they go back to non payers while they still owe money.In general those that are slow payers are known however some land cannot let a machine or equipment idle and will take work they should know they will have an issue getting paid for,

This reminds me of a small town story. Local small buisness man wanted a stone wall build and did a deal with a stone mason called Pat. There was 4 weeks work 1K paid in 4 installments after every weeks work. On the third Saturday at lunchtime the buisness man gave the Stone mason the 250 pounds and headed away. Pat turned around to his labourer Tom and told him load everything up. Tom asked are we not here next week.

''That b0llax never pays the last week, if he wants the wall finished he can catch someone else''

780K is still a huge amount the amount on disability in this country is staggering and while there are genuine cases there are also a lot using the system. The real question is it sustainable. You also have the issue that by giving services free it put the burden on those working to pay for all the service. This increases transport charge for those that travel to work on public transport. It is back to the chicken and egg syndrome. You then have the added issue's if over use as it is free.

I know they are questionable cases of uses of companion passes. The other issue is as public/bus transport costs rise this encourages those with cars to use them instead of public/bus transport which reduces revenue to these companiers and further increases costs to those who use it. Public spending in area's of this type of expenditure is not controlled enough. You can add dental, medical water, local authority charges etc etc

Reggie.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You have corruption in all walks of life. Yes there is a core that have issue with paying bills. It is very easy to preach about it. However if you look a all the Dairy farmers that had issue's afte the spring in 2013 and this year it is the hammering that finishers have taken over the winter. There is residual ration bills to be cleared.

On your point about silage contractors and machinery drives complaining about some farmers not paying, how often do they go back to non payers while they still owe money.In general those that are slow payers are known however some land cannot let a machine or equipment idle and will take work they should know they will have an issue getting paid for,

This reminds me of a small town story. Local small buisness man wanted a stone wall build and did a deal with a stone mason called Pat. There was 4 weeks work 1K paid in 4 installments after every weeks work. On the third Saturday at lunchtime the buisness man gave the Stone mason the 250 pounds and headed away. Pat turned around to his labourer Tom and told him load everything up. Tom asked are we not here next week.

''That b0llax never pays the last week, if he wants the wall finished he can catch someone else''

780K is still a huge amount the amount on disability in this country is staggering and while there are genuine cases there are also a lot using the system. The real question is it sustainable. You also have the issue that by giving services free it put the burden on those working to pay for all the service. This increases transport charge for those that travel to work on public transport. It is back to the chicken and egg syndrome. You then have the added issue's if over use as it is free.

I know they are questionable cases of uses of companion passes. The other issue is as public/bus transport costs rise this encourages those with cars to use them instead of public/bus transport which reduces revenue to these companiers and further increases costs to those who use it. Public spending in area's of this type of expenditure is not controlled enough. You can add dental, medical water, local authority charges etc etc

Jesus Pudsey. ...i have to say that looking at your posts over time, the inside of your head must be an interesting place....

Not just an empty warehouse like mine

Farmer Pudsey

Reggie. wrote: »

Jesus Pudsey. ...i have to say that looking at your posts over time, the inside of your head must be an interesting place....

Not just an empty warehouse like mine

Is that for my economic analysis or far my little anecdote, heard that one twenty years ago. I have an elephants memory it has its good and bad points. As one lad told me once ''you have an opinion on everything''.

I do not know if that is a good or a bad thing. A lot of things are common sense. it is only a matter of listening and taking in information or actually searching for it. Google is great but you have to decipher.

Thanks for the compliment.

Farmer Pudsey

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Is that for my economic analysis or far my little anecdote, heard that one twenty years ago. I have an elephants memory it has its good and bad points. As one lad told me once ''you have an opinion on everything''.

I do not know if that is a good or a bad thing. A lot of things are common sense. it is only a matter of listening and taking in information or actually searching for it. Google is great but you have to decipher.

Thanks for the compliment.

Opinions are good! Not everyone will share them, however!
I'm still bothered about that poor spud picking intern when he's picked all the spuds. What will he do then? Poor bugger'll have to sit around waiting for next crop to grow.

sandydan

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You have corruption in all walks of life. Yes there is a core that have issue with paying bills. It is very easy to preach about it. However if you look a all the Dairy farmers that had issue's afte the spring in 2013 and this year it is the hammering that finishers have taken over the winter. There is residual ration bills to be cleared.

On your point about silage contractors and machinery drives complaining about some farmers not paying, how often do they go back to non payers while they still owe money.In general those that are slow payers are known however some land cannot let a machine or equipment idle and will take work they should know they will have an issue getting paid for,

This reminds me of a small town story. Local small buisness man wanted a stone wall build and did a deal with a stone mason called Pat. There was 4 weeks work 1K paid in 4 installments after every weeks work. On the third Saturday at lunchtime the buisness man gave the Stone mason the 250 pounds and headed away. Pat turned around to his labourer Tom and told him load everything up. Tom asked are we not here next week.

''That b0llax never pays the last week, if he wants the wall finished he can catch someone else''

780K is still a huge amount the amount on disability in this country is staggering and while there are genuine cases there are also a lot using the system. The real question is it sustainable. You also have the issue that by giving services free it put the burden on those working to pay for all the service. This increases transport charge for those that travel to work

I know they are questionable cases of uses of companion passes. The other issue is as public/bus transport costs rise this encourages those with cars to use them instead of public/bus transport which reduces revenue to these companies and further increases costs to those who use it.

point well made but its a question of business ethics, accountability and cost control,a financial expert was brought in to sort the health service in UK, for a number of months all they did was check on those providing service, arrival at work time appointment,starting actual-work time etc. then docked their wages accordingly,it didnt provide an excellent service but it brought savings,similar action could be taken here by checking on those providing and those using, which since introduction of ID cards with Chips is simple and remedying accordingly and as lidl are supposedly doing to their warehouse staff if you have product without receipt of payment you are fired,.as for costs being increased to cover balance ,
do you remember a Ml O'Leary of Ryanair,by good management, he can get you to London and back cheaper than CIE can take you to Dublin,its called keeping bums on seats,punctuality and no nonsense service to where its required, a factor civil service cant fathom,many of management in my opinion have their jobs because of connections,not financial management capability. All farmers go through rough spells and so do business but some shenanigans can only be remedied by changing company law, eg fella got phone call about mechanical repairs and agreed to do it,work done; rang owner and mentioned about a few quid owing and asked for payment on that,reply oh that was my last company, their gone im now"***********" send your bill to ******* and it will be sorted ASAP. .im not sure of what happened next,but some ff neck.problem plumber had was similiar but he had court day, no pay .and culprit had new guess what, allegedly valued at over €100,000 a few days after.

sandydan

Deleted User wrote: »

Opinions are good! Not everyone will share them, however!
I'm still bothered about that poor spud picking intern when he's picked all the spuds. What will he do then? Poor bugger'll have to sit around waiting for next crop to grow.

naw, he can cultivate the ground using green energy and organic methods. heard there was big consignment of grubbers to be made , you remember the ones that looked like a pickaxe only one side is wider and flatter and the other side resembles a wood axe very sharp too:D

flutered

sandydan wrote: »

know a farmer who new had farm apprentice spreading slurry on out-farm near a town, told him no need for dinner stops, when near town ring takeaway,gave him number, collect grub and eat while spreading slurry , kid you not, health and safety regulations my foot

i am aquainted with guys working on a farm, 7am-8pm, the 13th hour is because i dont pay xxxxs to eat, as they say around hereabouts diet yourself, this is a seven day week job, one sunday off in every five, €380 per week, no wage slip, most of the workers are people who are married with the other half working, so theyare not entitled to any welfare, nice little country you have organised for some baldy.

sandydan

flutered wrote: »

i am aquainted with guys working on a farm, 7am-8pm, the 13th hour is because i dont pay xxxxs to eat, as they say around hereabouts diet yourself, this is a seven day week job, one sunday off in every five, €380 per week, no wage slip, most of the workers are people who are married with the other half working, so theyare not entitled to any welfare, nice little country you have organised for some baldy.

thats equivalent to €500 pre tax for single person, got two in family who bring home s€5 less and €10 more out of €495 and €520 respectively

kneemos

sandydan wrote: »

thats equivalent to €500 pre tax for single person, got two in family who bring home s€5 less and €10 more out of €495 and €520 respectively

Not much for two weeks work

sandydan

kneemos wrote: »

Not much for two weeks work

:D:D:D:D

ganmo

flutered wrote: »

i am aquainted with guys working on a farm, 7am-8pm, the 13th hour is because i dont pay xxxxs to eat, as they say around hereabouts diet yourself, this is a seven day week job, one sunday off in every five, €380 per week, no wage slip, most of the workers are people who are married with the other half working, so theyare not entitled to any welfare, nice little country you have organised for some baldy.

take a look at this http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2014/3129/TodaysFarm_MarchApril2014.pdf
page 14 and 15...especially the table on the left

flutered

flutered wrote: »

i am aquainted with guys working on a farm, 7am-8pm, the 13th hour is because i dont pay xxxxs to eat, as they say around hereabouts diet yourself, this is a seven day week job, one sunday off in every five, €380 per week, no wage slip, most of the workers are people who are married with the other half working, so theyare not entitled to any welfare, nice little country you have organised for some baldy.

If they're willing to let themselves be abused like that, they have no one to blame but themselves.

sandydan

Deleted User wrote: »

If they're willing to let themselves be abused like that, they have no one to blame but themselves.

if funds are tight you take what you get, know drivers being paid by day,get delivery dockets and go, back at 8 in morning and off you go, magnet off radio speaker to cut out taco hours and hope no one drives after you.know a few complained and were shown list of drivers applying.got choice try to keep going until things improve or . only place regs apply and enforced are continent
same applies to farm and other apprentices including interns. its not fair but thats what happens when those caused problem were sheltered and now some are getting their business back.

sandydan

ganmo wrote: »

take a look at this http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2014/3129/TodaysFarm_MarchApril2014.pdf
page 14 and 15...especially the table on the left

they are the official recorded hours at recommended pay :rolleyes:

Suckler

Famer defending his position on this and outlining what he'll be spending to get the employer on board (hopefully) fulltime.

http://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/latest-news/farmer-defends-50-jobbridge-offer-for-a-30hour-week-collecting-potatoes-30410919.html

Reggie.

As usual the farmers get the bad press on this. How come they never reported on any other industry hiring interns

sandydan

Reggie. wrote: »

As usual the farmers get the bad press on this. How come they never reported on any other industry hiring interns

they have, and at least 32 companies some high profile have been banned from using scheme(according to Joan Burton) last January. but if you are not sensitive to any particular trade or industry you will not notice believe me.some of those schemes users are genuine like that farmer seems to be . if local employer, that €50 plus prsi contribution by Dept of Social Welfare, is worth a lot, it extends stamps at moment with employment opportunities scarce. however a number of them are slave labour opportunists. like petrol stations offering internship to attendants to train them in art of quoting fuel supply prices , where they sell briquettes and smokeless fuel .( seen something like that in job description in FAS Jobs website)
as well a number of companies will not take on people who have sat on their ass after becoming unemployed no matter how well educated , its old trick of look at pants, if patch on knees or if patch on ass well you know what he prefers:rolleyes:

Ash.J.Williams

the chap gave it away when he started talking about how tough a year it is, which is admitting he's using jobbridge to save money.

sandydan

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the chap gave it away when he started talking about how tough a year it is, which is admitting he's using jobbridge to save money.

well not quite if hes prepared to spend €1200 on forklift and other training and maybe give job at end. abuse of scheme i seen job advertised then withdrawn an hour later when fella retired, then re-advertised 3 weeks later and regularly 10 monthly intervals since locally as internship.

Farmer Pudsey

Maybe I am wrong but I have not seen other employers doorstepped and photographed about it. I am not defending the application as I have already expressed an opinion on this thread about it. Even if he planning to train the applicant as a forklift drive I have serious reservations about the use of the scheme in low skilled labour applications.

However I see him being an easy target rather than naming and shaming a couple of Dublin based employers taht might be advertising in the Independent, Herad or other newspapers in that stable

sandydan

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Maybe I am wrong but I have not seen other employers doorstepped and photographed about it. I am not defending the application as I have already expressed an opinion on this thread about it. Even if he planning to train the applicant as a forklift drive I have serious reservations about the use of the scheme in low skilled labour applications.

However I see him being an easy target rather than naming and shaming a couple of Dublin based employers that might be advertising in the Independent, Herad or other newspapers in that stable

nothing wrong with expressing an opinion the more controversial the better sometimes id say. a newspaper made the headlines for about 1 day in this regard recently,it took in 2 interns ,provided no mentor,they complained when sent on assignment to Dublin (i think).dept investigated and the 2 featured on tv about 3 months ago.problem for the 2 as i now see it who will give them employment in future? same as whistle blower i think, any organisation i ever worked with will not appreciate them, as exposing any issue of whatever, exposure needs public rectification and some times item exposed is an ongoing thing with nod and wink approval that has to be now stopped due to publicity. just look at G M in states as reported in Irish Examiner recently,

sandydan

sorry about way that was worded,meant case of employee of General Motors.