Fed-up being a landlord/time to sell?

Labarbapostiza

ZENER wrote: »

I guess economics isn't your strong point ?!

Ken

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Are you going to give me some pompous wafter about supply and demand?

ZENER

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about something ? The OP had to repair a ceiling twice because his tenants were careless ! They left rubbish everywhere and were generally bad tenants ! What would you suggest ?

Ken

Labarbapostiza

ZENER wrote: »

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about something ?

No. A chip on my shoulder.

The OP had to repair a ceiling twice because his tenants were careless ! They left rubbish everywhere and were generally bad tenants ! What would you suggest ?

More often than not, tenants hate their landlord. Which can lead to carelessness.

For six years of rent, all they had to do was clean up some rubbish and fix the kitchen ceiling. And they found that too much of a trauma? And expense?......Really? Was the furniture meant to be in a "like new" condition after 6 years?

Do you know, that an average Dublin house, can earn as much or more than the average Irish farm?..........It's like a farmer complaining the cows won't milk themselves and they leave a mess everywhere. In fact it's much worse than that.

ZENER

A living room ceiling in a property I know of collapsed after the tenant banged a bed into a radiator while moving it causing the pipe to crack, they didn't report the leak and subsequently the ceiling collapsed. The living room was 16 feet by 10 feet, it cost 900 euro to fix it and another 150 to get a plumber to repair the pipe and sort the radiator and heating system. Thats 1050 euro. That doesn't include the cost of the clean up, the damage to the sofa and wooden floors and the time needed by the LL.

The rent was 650 per month, the tenants left at the end of the years lease leaving the place in a heap and using the "sure they can use my deposit as my last months rent" line. The house wasn't paying for itself at 650 with the LL adding another 200 per month to meet the mortgage.

So, where is all this money the landlord is making allowing her to live a life of luxury ?!

Would you like some salt on that chip ?

Ken

Larry Wildman

I'm a landlord and I expect my tenants to return my property to me in the same state that I would myself if I was a tenant.

There's a simple way to avoid the grief that the OP and other have described:

- Don't accept rent supplement

- Meet the prospective tenants yourself

- Only rent to professionals

- Only rent to "middle class" people

- Only rent to Irish people (with some exceptions, e.g. a French / American / British professional)

- Accept a lower rent in order to secure a better tenant (e.g. be happy to take €1,200 a month instead of €1,300 a month in order to get the solicitor and nurse rather than the taxi driver)

makeorbrake

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

No. A chip on my shoulder.

No kidding!

Labarbapostiza wrote:

More often than not, tenants hate their landlord. Which can lead to carelessness.

Ok, so their state of mind re. how they perceive their landlord releases them from their responsibilities - responsibilities that were clear from the outset. In fact, we're probably talking about fundamentally civil behaviour as opposed to purposely or otherwise - acting like pigs!

Labarbapostiza wrote:

For six years of rent, all they had to do was clean up some rubbish and fix the kitchen ceiling. And they found that too much of a trauma? And expense?......Really? Was the furniture meant to be in a "like new" condition after 6 years?

So the mentality here is the landlord has made a profit at the tenants expense (despite the tenant having received full use of the property in return for their rent) - how very dare they!
That releases the tenant from any responsibility for their actions apparently. Charming.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

Do you know, that an average Dublin house, can earn as much or more than the average Irish farm?

So what? You begrudge their good fortune despite the fact that it's never so clearcut. Supply and demand swings every which way over time.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

It's like a farmer complaining the cows won't milk themselves and they leave a mess everywhere. In fact it's much worse than that.

No, actually, it's not anything like the analogy that you present. It's clear from the outset what 'service' is provided when a tenant signs a lease. It's not an arrangement such as a hotel room with 'room service'. There is an expectation that the tenant returns the property in the same condition as it was provided to them (aside from reasonable wear and tear). That is a tenants RESPONSIBILITY.

Labarbapostiza

ZENER wrote: »

So, where is all this money the landlord is making allowing her to live a life of luxury ?!

You're giving me a hard luck story, that doesn't even have that much hard luck in it.

If owners have to subsidise a mortgage, too bad. But I'll only weep for them when the subsidy is 100%.

I'll give you a hard luck story. A friend moves into house, it's an absolute dump; it's low rent and it is all she can afford. The place is filthy and it's virtually destroyed. There are holes in everything. She does literally months of DIY, and getting help from friends. She transforms the place. It's completely unrecognisable from when she moved in. The landlady is very pleased. This next bit is a laugh. The landlady is so pleased, she decides that she wants (or sorry, needs) to move into the house.

There are tenants who move into nasty houses, fix them up nicely, and then get shafted.

makeorbrake

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

You're giving me a hard luck story, that doesn't even have that much hard luck in it. If owners have to subsidise a mortgage, too bad. But I'll only weep for them when the subsidy is 100%.

Ok, so you don't have to concern yourself with whether a landlord has to subsidise a mortgage in the same way as you won't concern yourself with a landlord letting a property profitably, right?

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

I'll give you a hard luck story. A friend moves into house, it's an absolute dump; it's low rent and it is all she can afford.

If it was such a dump, then don't move in. If she couldn't afford, then move to a different area - and if that means moving further afield, so be it.

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

There are tenants who move into nasty houses, fix them up nicely, and then get shafted.

A tenant shouldn't be carrying out capital improvements or renovations on a property. If the property is not fit for rental, don't rent it. It's that simple.

beauf

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

....Do you know, that an average Dublin house, can earn as much or more than the average Irish farm?..........It's like a farmer complaining the cows won't milk themselves and they leave a mess everywhere. In fact it's much worse than that.

Nearly two-thirds of Irish farms are not economically viable

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/economically-viable-farms-908198-May2013/

I don't think you are making the point you think you are making.

Labarbapostiza

makeorbrake wrote: »

Ok, so you don't have to concern yourself with whether a landlord has to subsidise a mortgage in the same way as you won't concern yourself with a landlord letting a property profitably, right?

Personally, I rather see the landlord die before it turns a profit.

These people are not innovators or entrepreneurs - creating goods, service and wealth, through toil and the judicious application of capital.

They're middle-class people, who because of their "respectability" have been given mortgages, which other people will pay, and at the end of the term, give them a free house; as a pension.....A reward for all their wonderful hard work.

No, if they did actually earn money another way, and then invested in property, you could argue the rent was a fair return. But the fact is, most of these people are spongers. At least with the tinkers, it's only a drop a milk for the child, the spongers feel entitled to have you going every day working for them.

If it was such a dump, then don't move in. If she couldn't afford, then move to a different area - and if that means moving further afield, so be it.

A disabled woman, with children in the local school. Was she supposed to hit the road, and keep gong until she hit something affordable?...A shed on hillside in the Kerry mountains?.....Or maybe the sea.

A tenant shouldn't be carrying out capital improvements or renovations on a property. If the property is not fit for rental, don't rent it. It's that simple.

Don't give me the "free" choice clap trap. Landlords will rent dives, because there are enough people out there who have no other choice but to take what's on offer. It is literally, that or the street.

Tramps.

beauf

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

...There are tenants who move into nasty houses, fix them up nicely, and then get shafted.

They shouldn't be fixing them up. Its usually in the lease/contract that tenants can't do anything without the LL approval.

None of this has anything to do with this topic either.

dar100

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I'm a landlord and I expect my tenants to return my property to me in the same state that I would myself if I was a tenant.

There's a simple way to avoid the grief that the OP and other have described:

- Don't accept rent supplement

- Meet the prospective tenants yourself

- Only rent to professionals

- Only rent to "middle class" people

- Only rent to Irish people (with some exceptions, e.g. a French / American / British professional)

- Accept a lower rent in order to secure a better tenant (e.g. be happy to take €1,200 a month instead of €1,300 a month in order to get the solicitor and nurse rather than the taxi driver)

Wow, really... Wow. Discrimination on a number of grounds there

beauf

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

....They're middle-class people, who ..... have been given mortgages,......

How do you get given a mortgage?

Larry Wildman

dar100 wrote: »

Wow, really... Wow. Discrimination on a number of grounds there

Not discrimination...playing the odds to protect one's property.

Labarbapostiza

beauf wrote: »

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/economically-viable-farms-908198-May2013/

I don't think you are making the point you think you are making.

No, I was making the point I was making. The income on the average Irish farm, before CAP payment is less than the average rental yield on a house in Dublin. Rent cattle are more productive than dairy cattle; and you have to put up with far less *****.

Labarbapostiza

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Not discrimination...playing the odds to protect one's property.

Like those people in American who burned down houses with the people inside, because they were black, and the neighbours were protecting their property value.

makeorbrake

Labarbapostiza wrote:

Personally, I rather see the landlord die before it turns a profit.

I don't think anyone is in any doubt about your begrudging attitude. It's coming through loud and clear.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

These people are not innovators or entrepreneurs - creating goods, service and wealth, through toil and the judicious application of capital.

They do provide a service. They provide use of a property in return for the rent a tenant pays.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

They're middle-class people, who because of their "respectability" have been given mortgages, which other people will pay, and at the end of the term, give them a free house; as a pension.....A reward for all their wonderful hard work.

Middle class? Respectability? What has this got to do with anything?! - other than its clear that you begrudge them any profit they may potentially make (and you begrudge them still even if they don't make any profit for the service provided - and there is a service provided despite your protests).

Labarbapostiza wrote:

No, if they did actually earn money another way, and then invested in property, you could argue the rent was a fair return.

lol What business is it of yours?! If they didn't provide a service, then why would anyone have any reason to sign a lease with one?

Labarbapostiza wrote:

But the fact is, most of these people are spongers. At least with the tinkers, it's only a drop a milk for the child, the spongers feel entitled to have you going every day working for them.

We're definitely in trolling territory here.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

A disabled woman, with children in the local school. Was she supposed to hit the road, and keep gong until she hit something affordable?...A shed on hillside in the Kerry mountains?.....Or maybe the sea.

If you can't afford where you are currently proposing to live or currently live, then yes, you move. I drive 400 miles /week comuting - as I located somewhere I could afford. That is the reality - and that was the solution to a REAL scenario. People have to take personal responsibility.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

Don't give me the "free" choice clap trap. Landlords will rent dives, because there are enough people out there who have no other choice but to take what's on offer. It is literally, that or the street.

See above.

Rubberchikken

it could be the quality of tenants you're getting.
lots of people rent and have respect for the property they are in.

also if you have no mortgages on them, maybe it would have been fairer to stick with the original rent and accept that.
plus, installing a proper shower/shower screen would be way more effective than a curtain.

a good quality letting agency would do a better job at screening would-be tenants also.

if you really dont want the hassle, then sell and put the money towards a house you would get pleasure from

Larry Wildman

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Like those people in American who burned down houses with the people inside, because they were black, and the neighbours were protecting their property value.

Lol

So being choosy about who one rents to is akin to racially motivated murder.

Your mask is slipping.

dar100

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Not discrimination...playing the odds to protect one's property.

Your discrimination based on race, and unfortunately this act does not cover socio economic areas, but if it did...

Labarbapostiza

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Lol

So being choosy about who one rents to is akin to racially motivated murder.

Your mask is slipping.

Larry, you are actually a racist. It doesn't matter why you're a racist. You have made racist statements - you are a racist.

Your pointy hood is slipping.

pwurple

OP, it can be stressful. I've been pretty lucky/choosey in my tenants, but still had some damage done. All my properties are thankfully let at the moment, but I still get the odd 2am call telling me a pipe has burst and they can't find the stopcock. Or the christmas eve phonecall saying the alarm is going off. I'm not too bothered by it, but i live near them all and can sort things out fast enough. Afterall, I am being paid for it (by their rent). My only advice is to rent to grown-ups. The younger the tenant, the more they expect you to be their mammy and clean up after them.

If you want to get out of it, do. Life is too short to be a bag of stress over it.

Larry Wildman

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Larry, you are actually a racist. It doesn't matter why you're a racist. You have made racist statements - you are a racist.

Your pointy hood is slipping.

Who mentioned race?

CrinkElite

What were you taking in rent OP?

Let's say it was something like €900 yeah.

900 * 12 * 6 = €64,800

That's a fair whack of money in anyone's book but you want to take another €200 off them.

I think you should be a little more appreciative of overall picture here.

Labarbapostiza

makeorbrake wrote: »

They do provide a service.

Of course they provide a service - just like travellers will clear all rubbish out of your garden for a few pound.

Come on now. Sitting on your fat arse, and watching the 'money for nothing' rolling in. That ain't working, that's the way to do it,

Rentiers have never been called service providers - I know "we're providing a service", makes the spongers feel better about themselves - but no one; even the spongers believe that to be true.

People have to take personal responsibility.

Agreed. People have to take personal responsibility for their life choices. If they're chosen a life of sponging, then they should admit both to themselves and everyone else. And not be trying to cod people. Service provider - g'way with yourself.

I know what hard earned money looks like, and I wouldn't begrudge any man it. But I know what sponging looks like too. And yes indeed, I'd have to say, I begrudge the spongers their sponge.

Santa Cruz

dar100 wrote: »

Wow, really... Wow. Discrimination on a number of grounds there

He really should consider renting it to some loser on rent allowance who
spends the day sitting on his arse watching Jeremy Kyle. That would be good business sense and socially responsible.

makeorbrake

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Of course they provide a service - just like travellers will clear all rubbish out of your garden for a few pound.

What's your point? In each example, you enter into that arrangement or contract knowingly, of your own free will and as a mature responsible individual. As an aside, it's interesting that you accuse 'Larry Wildman' of discrimination/racism when you yourself have now used derogatory language and made discriminatory points in two separate posts yourself.

Labarbapostiza wrote:

Come on now. Sitting on your fat arse, and watching the 'money for nothing' rolling in. That ain't working, that's the way to do it,

So if it's sooo easy and all a LL has to do is 'sit on his fat arse' as you put it, how is it that the OP is considering getting out?

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

People have to take personal responsibility for their life choices. If they're chosen a life of sponging, then they should admit both to themselves and everyone else. And not be trying to cod people.

Degenerative statement unworthy of further comment.

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Service provider - g'way with yourself

So you (or others) have no need of this service? Why the attitude then? You don't need to lease a property? Nobody does, right?

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

I know what hard earned money looks like, and I wouldn't begrudge any man it. But I know what sponging looks like too. And yes indeed, I'd have to say, I begrudge the spongers their sponge.

Ok, so if we all review the services we knowingly agree to purchase and decide that actually some of them weren't 'hard earnt', then that gives us the right to conveniently ignore some or all of the conditions of the contract that was signed?

CrinkElite wrote:

900 * 12 * 6 = €64,800

That's a fair whack of money in anyone's book but you want to take another €200 off them.

I think you should be a little more appreciative of overall picture here.

The value of anything is determined by the price someone is prepared to offer it at alongside the price someone is prepared to pay for it. Free market economics. The OP isn't running a community service! The rent is determined by what the market will bear - not by your assumption that, sure you've made enough already! That's before we start looking at that figure you produced and pairing back all the expenses involved, periods when the property wasn't let, agents fees, property tax, usc, prsi, income tax, repairs, opportunity cost of capital (or mortgage payments), etc, etc.

Labarbapostiza

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Who mentioned race?

You did.

- Only rent to Irish people (with some exceptions, e.g. a French /
American / British professional)

Larry, don't play games, please.

Labarbapostiza

Santa Cruz wrote: »

He really should consider renting it to some loser on rent allowance who spends the day sitting on his arse watching Jeremy Kyle.

That would be the typical landlord, in receipt of rent allowance; that's where the rent allowance actually goes, if you didn't know.

dolliemix

CrinkElite wrote: »

What were you taking in rent OP?

Let's say it was something like €900 yeah.

900 * 12 * 6 = €64,800

That's a fair whack of money in anyone's book but you want to take another €200 off them.

I think you should be a little more appreciative of overall picture here.

I agree here. OP has the benefit of a million options here. Lucky her. The people who were renting a house where the roof feel in twice and were told their rent was increasing by €300 ( if this is the amount you were increasing it by, it doesn't say) have limited options.

I have no sympathy for OP. You should have come up with a long term solution to the roof falling in. Just changing the shower curtain is an easy , cheap and unsafe option. Im guessing this is why the tenants were looking for another bathroom. It sounds like you are not willing to spend money on creating a safer option long term i.e a € 5000 bathroom. Most people would be prepared to invest in a new bathroom/ shower over 6 years! Thats not a lot to ask.

I suggest you get out of being a landlord. You're not taking responsibility for your side of the arrangement. Twice now, it appears you've been threatened with prtb . That says a lot to me.