chiropractor yes or no

bridest

I booked in to see a chiropractor next Wednesday, but a friend told me not to go. What my problem is is that my muscles down left side of my upper back under shoulder blades and ribs is all locked up. Sitting at computer all day

I've been to physio, osteopath , massage etc , all work for a little while , and I do a lot of stretching , but this thing seems to be in a recurring pattern.

Another friend said try acupuncture first. A lot of people saying chiropractor can do more damage than good

iwillhtfu

You're going to hear both sides of the argument for and against but if you've tried all other methods it might be an option. Personally I'd never go to one.

If it's muscle related acupuncture might be worth a shot. Did you go back to your physio once the problems you've been having reoccurred?

You'll hear more horror stories of people being to a chiropractor than those who've been to a physio there's nothing worse than back pain though.

Do you do any sports or anything to shake the body up a bit yoga or Pilate's will help strengthen your core which will help with posture. Perhaps it might be time to a new chair in your office.

5uspect

I've got some magic beans that you can have. I believe they will work wonders for you.

bridest

iwillhtfu wrote: »

You're going to hear both sides of the argument for and against but if you've tried all other methods it might be an option. Personally I'd never go to one.

If it's muscle related acupuncture might be worth a shot. Did you go back to your physio once the problems you've been having reoccurred?

You'll hear more horror stories of people being to a chiropractor than those who've been to a physio there's nothing worse than back pain though.

Do you do any sports or anything to shake the body up a bit yoga or Pilate's will help strengthen your core which will help with posture. Perhaps it might be time to a new chair in your office.

Lots of sports in last 3 years. swimming mostly now. Had to give up running 5 weeks ago, leg was cramping and I think its coming from a trapped nerve in my back!

bridest

5uspect wrote: »

I've got some magic beans that you can have. I believe they will work wonders for you.

Lol

iwillhtfu

bridest wrote: »

Lots of sports in last 3 years. swimming mostly now. Had to give up running 5 weeks ago, leg was cramping and I think its coming from a trapped nerve in my back!

Are you sure you're stretching properly?

5uspect

bridest wrote: »

Lol

I hope you apply that same sense of humour to the chiropractic method because it's no different than magic beans.

I don't doubt that you're suffering however.

How Strange

I'd never go near a chiropractor again after having serious issues as a result of going to a very reputable one for a minor problem.

However chiropractors crack bones so if your problem is muscular then you're going to the wrong person.

I was going to one physio for sciatica but it was getting worse. I went to another physio and there was a huge improvement within 3 weeks. 3 months later I'm fine again but at it's worst I was in constant pain.

My advice is go to another physio/osteopath.

philip_lamb

went to a chiropractor in 2010 with a problem which stemed from a fall three years prior to that , broke ribs and the pain hung around , long story short , ended up with my lumber spine damaged by the chiropractor , showed up on an MRI

chiropractors are quacks and frauds , they use the same technique to adress every issue , my guy told me he could cure my asthma by manipulating my spine , a cute trick of chiros is they always tell new patients that they have a twisted spine , my guy must have superman x ray vision as he told me this thirty seconds after meeting me and before i removed my shirt , this despite the fact that i had had several x rays in the previous three years which showed no such phenomenon

i think a lot of folk in this country confuse chiros with orthopedic surgeons and also subscribe to the notion that chiros are doctors , a chiropractor may have some diploma from abroad and be viewed as a doctor in the usa etc but in ireland , they have no more legitimacy in calling themselves doctors than a butcher or a truck driver

chriity139

When I was playing rugby I went to 4 chiropractors. I found that only 1 of them actually worked for me the other 3 made my back a lot weaker.

Very hard to find a good one

A Neurotic

Chiropracters are anti-vaccination. Enough said, in my opinion.

Jezek

Chiropractors kill people while performing dangerous manoevres for no reason and no possible benefit.

N8

chriity139 wrote: »

Very hard to find a good one

indeed

How Strange wrote: »

However chiropractors crack bones so if your problem is muscular then you're going to the wrong person.

If a bone is locked out of place do you think it might affect the muscles attached?

Jezek wrote: »

Chiropractors kill people while performing dangerous manoevres for no reason and no possible benefit.

What an absolute crock of sh1te.

I hurt my back a few years ago and was told by two separate doctors to not go to a chiropractor as they could cause more damage.

They both recommended physio instead.

I'd stay clear OP.

gctest50

I have been doing a vascular surgery rotation for the past month, which is part of my postgraduate medical education. During my chiropractic training, when the subject of manipulation-induced stroke was brought up, we were reassured that "millions of chiropractic adjustments are made each year and only a few incidents of stroke have been reported following neck manipulation." I recently found that two of the patients on my vascular service that suffered a cerebrovascular accident (stroke) had undergone neck manipulation by a chiropractor, one the day that symptoms had begun and the other four days afterward. If indeed the incidence of stroke is rare, one M.D. would see a case of manipulation-induced CVA about every 10 years. But I believe I have seen two in the past month! I therefore urge my medical colleagues to question their patients regarding recent visits to a chiropractor/neck manipulation when confronted with patients that present with the neurologic symptoms of stroke. I also urge potential chiropractic patients to not allow their necks to be manipulated in any way. The risk-to-benefit ratio is much too high to warrant such a procedure.

—Rob Alexander, M.D.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html

Clearlier

Look up their qualifications before you go to see them. There's a big chiropractic college near me that's affiliated to the local university. Training takes 6 years and is very good. I wouldn't hesitate to see one of them and well ahead of a comparatively undertrained physio. OTOH I wouldn't go anywhere near somebody who had a one year diploma from the university of the internet.

sentient_6

bridest wrote: »

Sitting at computer all day

And it will never change unless this changes. Been to chiros and physios both over the years myself when i was in jobs spending all day long at either computers or microscopes. No matter which it was all only temporary relief and not addressing the root cause. The last few years i've been a job where i'm active, moving and standing mostly....back is now only a very minor issue and very rarely at that.

gctest50

.

My chiropractor gave me locked-in syndrome

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2383727/My-chiropractor-gave-locked-syndrome-I-survived-Astonishing-recovery-woman-46-beat-odds-walk-talk-again.html

.

5uspect

Clearlier wrote: »

Look up their qualifications before you go to see them. There's a big chiropractic college near me that's affiliated to the local university. Training takes 6 years and is very good. I wouldn't hesitate to see one of them and well ahead of a comparatively undertrained physio. OTOH I wouldn't go anywhere near somebody who had a one year diploma from the university of the internet.

Six years or not it's still bull****. It would be an embarrassment to any university to be associated with such woo.

Jezek

N8 wrote: »

What an absolute crock of sh1te.

do you mean chiropractic ? I agree completely!

Clearlier

5uspect wrote: »

Six years or not it's still bull****. It would be an embarrassment to any university to be associated with such woo.

My mistake. It's actually only 5 years of training to qualify. It's clearly not an embarrassment.

Jezek

Clearlier wrote: »

My mistake. It's actually only 5 years of training to qualify. It's clearly not an embarrassment.

Teaching unscientific BS is an embarassment to a university, no two ways about it. A pretty little money-spinner, I'll bet , but it should embarass them

DesperateDan

This is all very interesting I had no idea chiropractors were basically doo-lally.

sentient_6 wrote: »

And it will never change unless this changes. Been to chiros and physios both over the years myself when i was in jobs spending all day long at either computers or microscopes. No matter which it was all only temporary relief and not addressing the root cause. The last few years i've been a job where i'm active, moving and standing mostly....back is now only a very minor issue and very rarely at that.

Can I ask over what period of time did you work before your back pains started? I'm 26 now and am literally at a computer all day with very little exercise because I'm trying hard to get a paid programming job. I have a big fear by the time I'm 30 my whole body will be destroyed...

Clearlier

Jezek wrote: »

Teaching unscientific BS is an embarassment to a university, no two ways about it. A pretty little money-spinner, I'll bet , but it should embarass them

Of course teaching BS is embarrassing. Just because there is no chiropractic profession in Ireland doesn't mean that that it isn't a profession elsewhere.

I've never paid to see a chiropracter and I've paid over thousands to physios but I've still had better treatment from a trainee chiropracter than I had from several long qualified physios.

Jezek

Clearlier wrote: »

Of course teaching BS is embarrassing. Just because there is no chiropractic profession in Ireland doesn't mean that that it isn't a profession elsewhere.

I've never paid to see a chiropracter and I've paid over thousands to physios but I've still had better treatment from a trainee chiropracter than I had from several long qualified physios.

Whatever your personal experience, chiropractors believe in non-scientific, made up things. Even if you love them, even if they cure you, they don't understand how the human body works. Their interventions are not science or evidence based.

tommyboy2222

DesperateDan wrote: »

This is all very interesting I had no idea chiropractors were basically doo-lally.



Can I ask over what period of time did you work before your back pains started? I'm 26 now and am literally at a computer all day with very little exercise because I'm trying hard to get a paid programming job. I have a big fear by the time I'm 30 my whole body will be destroyed...

lol how would sitting at a desk destroy your body ??

gctest50

tommyboy2222 wrote: »

lol how would sitting at a desk destroy your body ??

Over time it could

CTS from keyboards
RSI from mouse and other stuff
constant exposure to toner dust
iffy food for lunch for 30 years
dodgy air quality
Excessive light levels playing havoc with your body clock

Joe Doe

tommyboy2222 wrote: »

lol how would sitting at a desk destroy your body ??

The hundreds of millions of years homo-sapiens evolution isn't 12hrs a day of clicky click the facepage and asking googlebot random questions. An unavoidable occupational hazard however since the year 1996 ad due to IT sector growth.

It's running, swamming, catchin' dinner with spears and gettin freaky with the ladyfolk(s) on a daily basis.

My Chiro (Dr) diagnosed (inc. digi x-ray), then fixed my back (T4/5) in few sessions, gave excellent advice, technique and information, back has been fine since. Best £25 per session spent in long while.

Clearlier

Jezek wrote: »

Whatever your personal experience, chiropractors believe in non-scientific, made up things. Even if you love them, even if they cure you, they don't understand how the human body works. Their interventions are not science or evidence based.

So do doctors and physios and many other mainstream professions. The key is how they respond to discovering that a previously held belief is inaccurate. The astrologists of this world change their beliefs/assertions so that they are unverifiable. I don't know where chiropractors are in this area but I'm reasonably confident that nobody else in this thread does either. I have my personal experience and also the opinion of someone I respect that the curriculum in the college near me is sound. I'm instinctively cautious and I certainly wouldn't let one near my neck but I'm open to the idea of seeing what they can do to soft tissue injuries especially ones that physios have been unable to do anything about.

Jezek

Clearlier wrote: »

So do doctors and physios and many other mainstream professions. The key is how they respond to discovering that a previously held belief is inaccurate. The astrologists of this world change their beliefs/assertions so that they are unverifiable. I don't know where chiropractors are in this area but I'm reasonably confident that nobody else in this thread does either. I have my personal experience and also the opinion of someone I respect that the curriculum in the college near me is sound. I'm instinctively cautious and I certainly wouldn't let one near my neck but I'm open to the idea of seeing what they can do to soft tissue injuries especially ones that physios have been unable to do anything about.

You're reasonably confident no-one else here knows the state of chiropractic? Look the info is available online, look it up if you want. You can find plenty of evidence. I've read a lot and will say to you that

1. You personal experience is important to you but says very little about the over-all state of chiropractic
2. Not all chiropractors are at the same level of woo.
3. However, there are still verifiably wrong misconceptions being taught, that lie at the very foundations of the field.

Look it up if you like.

N8

gctest50 wrote: »

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html

http://www.academia.edu/2306271/Critical_appraisal_of_an_article_about_harm_chiropractic_adjustment_and_stroke

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570468/

Clearlier wrote: »

Of course teaching BS is embarrassing. Just because there is no chiropractic profession in Ireland doesn't mean that that it isn't a profession elsewhere.

There is a profession here - I think you mean that they are not statutorily recognised in law.

Jezek wrote: »

Whatever your personal experience, chiropractors believe in non-scientific, made up things.

Do you believe in God?

Jezek wrote: »

Their interventions are not science or evidence based.

Really now .....

Jezek wrote: »

However, there are still verifiably wrong misconceptions being taught, that lie at the very foundations of the field.

Really .... can you elaborate?

Akrasia

Clearlier wrote: »

My mistake. It's actually only 5 years of training to qualify. It's clearly not an embarrassment.

How long is the training to be a voodoo witchdoctor?

N8

Akrasia wrote: »

How long is the training to be a voodoo witchdoctor?

I think it is a trainee position with a voodoo witchdoctor?

N8

It seems that even GPs are embracing chiropractors into their medical practices now too....

http://www.knocknacarramedicalcentre.ie/services-chiropractor/

gctest50

N8 wrote: »

I think it is a trainee position with a voodoo witchdoctor?

witchdoctors you say

"Chiropractors have found in every disease that is supposed to be contagious, a cause in the spine.

In the spinal column we will find a subluxation that corresponds to every type of disease. If we had one hundred cases of small-pox, I can prove to you where, in one, you will find a subluxation and you will find the same conditions in the other ninety-nine. I adjust one and return his functions to normal... . There is no contagious disease... . There is no infection...-- B.J. Palmer, The Philosophy of Chiropractic, V. Davenport, IA: Palmer School of Chiropractic

gctest50

N8 wrote: »

http://www.academia.edu/2306271/Critical_appraisal_of_an_article_about_harm_chiropractic_adjustment_and_stroke

Adrian Wenban is presently the principal of the Barcelona College of Chiropractic.


http://about.me/dradrianwenban

Akrasia

Chiropractors in the UK have softened up their language significantly since they were successfully sued by Simon Singh, but they still make ludicrous claims

Nobody in their right mind could think that athsma can be treated by spinal manipulation, but chiropractors do.

http://www.healthcentre.org.uk/chiropractors/chiropractors-chiropractic-treatment-asthma.html

5uspect

Akrasia wrote: »

Chiropractors in the UK have softened up their language significantly since they were successfully sued by Simon Singh, but they still make ludicrous claims

Nobody in their right mind could think that athsma can be treated by spinal manipulation, but chiropractors do.

http://www.healthcentre.org.uk/chiropractors/chiropractors-chiropractic-treatment-asthma.html

Just to be peadntic, the BCA sued Singh for libel and he successfully appealed.
They were also caught removing their bogus claims from their websites (which were the subject of Singh's article) before their libel action.

So they're willing to lie, cheat and sue for their unfounded beliefs.

BigChap1759

gctest50 wrote: »

Over time it could

CTS from keyboards
RSI from mouse and other stuff
constant exposure to toner dust
iffy food for lunch for 30 years
dodgy air quality
Excessive light levels playing havoc with your body clock

Iffy food for lunch - now that really was a stretch.........

All of the above is assuming you don't do any exercise or look after yourself in any way

dutopia

There's no definitive scientific evidence that any chiropractic treatments are beneficial. In fact, there have been many reported cases of them causing further injuries to people.

Go to a physiotherapist or a specialist.

N8

gctest50 wrote: »

Adrian Wenban is presently the principal of the Barcelona College of Chiropractic.

Your point being?

5uspect wrote: »

Just to be peadntic, the BCA sued Singh for libel and he successfully appealed.

To be pedantic - the BCA withdrew from the appeal.

5uspect wrote: »

So they're willing to lie, cheat and sue for their unfounded beliefs.

To be fair, the profession in the main was against the BCA suing Singh.

dutopia wrote: »

There's no definitive scientific evidence that any chiropractic treatments are beneficial.

Currently, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) recommends spinal manipulation (as practised by chiropractors) as a treatment option for one condition: persistent lower back pain. Read the 2009 NICE guidelines on low back pain.

dutopia wrote: »

In fact, there have been many reported cases of them causing further injuries to people.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570468/

5uspect

N8 wrote: »

To be fair, the profession in the main was against the BCA suing Singh.

Yet many of them removed the references to treating infant colic from their websites and denied it was ever there.

Are you a chiropractor?
Do you think manipulating the spine of a baby can cure colic?

atilladehun

I haven't read the whole thread just the first page and last. You said you had to give up running and that you are still swimming.

If its muscle pain you have then think of muscle exercises, not cardio. Break kyour back up into sections and find out the best exercises to build them up. You'll probably need to do upper back, lower back, hamstrings and neck the most but don't neglect the rest of your body. Then supplement that with proper stretches and foam rolling.

Running can make issues worse sometimes. Watch runners when they go past you on the street and look at them from behind. Very often they're not balanced, they jerk around and are going to injure themselves.
Find a physio or Osteo that works for you. Osteos with proper degrees in it are usually best.

gctest50

Currently, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) recommends spinal manipulation (as practised by chiropractors) as a treatment option for one condition: persistent lower back pain. Read the 2009 NICE guidelines on low back pain.

Thats a bit like saying its recommended to weld certain gas pipelines

Depends who welds them - can't go making up voodoo welding quals


Chiro is way too dodgy

Research has increasingly shown that in about half cases, chiropractic can cause adverse effects.

Sandy Nette, 46, had her neck manipulated which ripped two arteries and caused multiple strokes which left her totally paralysed and unable to talk

Sandra has Locked-In syndrome. She is cognitively not impaired and she is aware that other than very limited function in her right ann, she cannot move or communicate due to complete paralysis of nearly all voluntary muscles in her body. It is a condition that has been described as “the closest thing to being buried alive”. There is no treatment nor is there a cure. She has retained sensation throughout her body by which she perceives pain. She cannot swallow, speak or breathe without regular mechanical ventilations and suctioning of her secretions. She cannot attend to her own personal care. She has survived a number of emergency crises in her condition solely as a result of the expert, dedicated efforts of the finest medical, nursing and technical hospital personnel available who have treated her since Stiles’ procedure at Life Stiles.

Before her series of strokes, Sandy Nette, now 46, worked as a successful administrator for a Canadian gas company. She was incredibly fit and enjoyed an active lifestyle





But after visiting her chiropractor, two of her vertebral arteries ripped, triggering a series of strokes which left her with locked-in syndrome. She was unable to communicate and doctors did not believe she would survive




Chiropractic treatment to the cervical vertebrae disrupted blood flow to her brain, causing stroke and neurological damage rendering her a tetraplegic.

calfmuscle

I had the misfortune of working in a chiropractic clinic when I first came out of college. They where scandalous liars and had no scientific/medical /rational or logical basis for the manipulations they did. And they didnt normally look for consent before they did dangerous high risk cervical spine manipulations.

gctest50

More of it :

Other documents reveal Stiles admitted to forging Nette's signature on a consent form.
According to an affidavit by Gregory Dunn, the chief operating officer of the Canadian Chiropractic Protective Association, Stiles disclosed he signed Nette's name on a "blank informed consent form" included in records provided to the CCPA
In a 2010 statement of defence, Stiles initially claimed all procedures were done with Nette's consent

gctest50

more

N8

5uspect wrote: »

Are you a chiropractor?

Are you a medical researcher with a bias toward evidence based alternatives to a medical approach even if its not evidence based?

calfmuscle wrote: »

I had the misfortune of working in a chiropractic clinic when I first came out of college. They where scandalous liars and had no scientific/medical /rational or logical basis for the manipulations they did. And they didnt normally look for consent before they did dangerous high risk cervical spine manipulations.

Many other health care approaches do not get full on signed consent either. I agree re some chiropractors being like full on American approaches - were cash take takes providence - like u I have I been there but seen others where it is patient based.

atilladehun wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread just the first page and last. You said you had to give up running and that you are still swimming.

If its muscle pain you have then think of muscle exercises, not cardio. Break kyour back up into sections and find out the best exercises to build them up. You'll probably need to do upper back, lower back, hamstrings and neck the most but don't neglect the rest of your body. Then supplement that with proper stretches and foam rolling.

Running can make issues worse sometimes. Watch runners when they go past you on the street and look at them from behind. Very often they're not balanced, they jerk around and are going to injure themselves.
Find a physio or Osteo that works for you. Osteos with proper degrees in it are usually best.

excellent reply - chiropractors properly qualified and interested in patient care will be able for the same or should be able to refer the OP to someone else to help them out - as they should others

bodice ripper

N8 wrote: »

Are you a medical researcher with a bias toward evidence based alternatives to a medical approach even if its not evidence based?

This sentence has been subluxated. And you are a chiropractor.

gctest50

bodice ripper wrote: »

Originally Posted by N8
Are you a medical researcher with a bias toward evidence based alternatives to a medical approach even if its not evidence based?

This sentence has been subluxated. And you are a chiropractor.

Hang on, i'll give it an adjustment to release the "innate intelligence"

.

There you go - minor issue though - it doesn't say anything because it is now paralyzed

gctest50

N8 wrote: »

Many other health care approaches do not get full on signed consent either.

Think you missed this bit

Other documents reveal Stiles admitted to forging Nette's signature on a consent form.
According to an affidavit by Gregory Dunn, the chief operating officer of the Canadian Chiropractic Protective Association, Stiles disclosed he signed Nette's name on a "blank informed consent form" included in records provided to the CCPA
In a 2010 statement of defence, Stiles initially claimed all procedures were done with Nette's consent