chiropractor yes or no

Starokan

Some interesting points here, I genuinely had no idea that chiropractors were seen in this way, my assumption was they were all highly trained etc. Personally I have had enormous problems with regard to my back for the past 2/3 years. I was actually recommended to a chiropractor by a doctor which to be honest gave me the impression that the medical profession had a positive view of the practice.

I went to see said chiropractor , before he would treat me he insisted on an MRI being carried out first. I got this and went back and honestly I can say that he has improved my situation a hundred fold. I was put on a twelve week programme and then phased out to once every months to two to three and now 6 months. Unbelievable difference in my quality of life and I have recommended this chiropractor to many people since.

Is there an element of the medical profession that are pro chiropractic for want of a better phrase , to be honest had I read this thread or similar prior to my first visit I probably would never have gone. You learn something new every day. This is a total eye opener for me.

5uspect

N8 wrote: »

Are you a medical researcher with a bias toward evidence based alternatives to a medical approach even if its not evidence based?

I'm an engineer. Are you a chiropractor? You seem very cagey about admitting to something you seem to think is evidence based.

N8

Why concentrate on whether I am a chiropractor or not - what has that got to do with your argument 5uspect?

I thought any debate should concentrate on the ball not the player.

Todays Irish Chiropractors in the main are as Starokan described - honest, well trained and professional. Yes a few are not but this is the same in any profession.

Akrasia

Starokan wrote: »

Some interesting points here, I genuinely had no idea that chiropractors were seen in this way, my assumption was they were all highly trained etc. Personally I have had enormous problems with regard to my back for the past 2/3 years. I was actually recommended to a chiropractor by a doctor which to be honest gave me the impression that the medical profession had a positive view of the practice.

I went to see said chiropractor , before he would treat me he insisted on an MRI being carried out first. I got this and went back and honestly I can say that he has improved my situation a hundred fold. I was put on a twelve week programme and then phased out to once every months to two to three and now 6 months. Unbelievable difference in my quality of life and I have recommended this chiropractor to many people since.

Is there an element of the medical profession that are pro chiropractic for want of a better phrase , to be honest had I read this thread or similar prior to my first visit I probably would never have gone. You learn something new every day. This is a total eye opener for me.

When Chiropractors recommend treatments that are not chiropractic in nature, they're can often be effective. Changes to posture or stretching exercises or massages can treat some kinds of back pain. However,the minute they start implementing the theory of chiropractic 'medicine' they get into very risky territory.

It is much safer to skip chiropractors altogether and see qualified medical practitioners such as chartered physiotherapists

iwillhtfu

N8 wrote: »

Why concentrate on whether I am a chiropractor or not - what has that got to do with your argument 5uspect.

Well if you're a chiropractor would it not be fait to say you would have a bias towards the practice?

Clearly the other poster has no immediate bias as he is neither a chiropractor or a medical professional.

Actually even in writing the above sentence I noticed I've described one as a medical professional and the other as a chiropractor. Interesting.

5uspect

N8 wrote: »

Why concentrate on whether I am a chiropractor or not - what has that got to do with your argument 5uspect?

I thought any debate should concentrate on the ball not the player.

Todays Irish Chiropractors in the main are as Starokan described - honest, well trained and professional. Yes a few are not but this is the same in any profession.

You're the one making unfounded and unsupported claims that the chiropractic method is evidence based. I've provided evidence here and elsewhere that it is not. You've provided no such evidence. All you have done is evade and assert that if it's good enough for a few GPs then it must be fine.

So my concern is that you're a chiropractic shill.
Do you believe that chiropractors should treat asthma?
Do you believe that chiropractors should treat infant colic?
What are your views on vaccines?

bridest

wow my thread has been hijacked. haven't been on in a few days. I just need to know how to release this muscle tension under my left shoulder or inbetween 2 ribs or wherever it is , don't need to know all the other stuff that has been posted here. but thanks anyway!

johnb25

I have had a history of back problems most of my adult life....almost 30 years. Not very serious most of the time, but it has flattened me a few times over the years.
After it flared up about four years ago I went to a Chiropractor, and got great relief. He was recommended to me by others who had been to see him. I have been back to him three or four times since.
He did a couple of manipulation of my back which gets it back into alignment. After a few days of applying ice packs to the affected area of my back, the soreness goes I am as good as new.
I found his treatment more impactful than doing exercises recommended by Physios.
The basis of Chiropractic as I understand it is that correct alignment of the spine is essential to back health, which makes sense to me. Like others, I am a bit skeptical about some of the wider medical claims, but that is not relevant to the OP's question, or my own problems, so I just disregard them.
I too work at a computer most of the day, and I found getting the chair and screen to the correct heights made a difference to correct posture, and how my back felt.

5uspect

There is evidence that deep massage etc can work, nobody is denying that.
Unlike homeopathy, you do get an actual physical intervention.
The problem lies with the reasons provided by chiropractors for their treatments. It's a fantasy that isn't remotely founded in anything scientific. You don't know what your getting and the chiropractors can make it up as they go along. This makes it very dangerous.

This lets them make all kinds of claims such as treating infant colic with spinal manipulation (and then suing scientists for criticising them). When genuine people like you talk about how you were helped it gives them the legitimacy they crave. People you talk to then think their just like real doctors.

They are not. They are quacks.

If your physio isn't helping you go to a different one. If your dentist isn't much good you don't go see a toothologist, similarity a dietician can help your diet and not a nutritionist. Anyone can can call themselves a nutritionist, just like any crank can become a chiropractor with a fancy cert from quack school.

johnb25

5uspect wrote: »

There is evidence that deep massage etc can work, nobody is denying that.
Unlike homeopathy, you do get an actual physical intervention.
The problem lies with the reasons provided by chiropractors for their treatments. It's a fantasy that isn't remotely founded in anything scientific. You don't know what your getting and the chiropractors can make it up as they go along. This makes it very dangerous.

This lets them make all kinds of claims such as treating infant colic with spinal manipulation (and then suing scientists for criticising them). When genuine people like you talk about how you were helped it gives them the legitimacy they crave. People you talk to then think their just like real doctors.

They are not. They are quacks.

If your physio isn't helping you go to a different one. If your dentist isn't much good you don't go see a toothologist, similarity a dietician can help your diet and not a nutritionist. Anyone can can call themselves a nutritionist, just like any crank can become a chiropractor with a fancy cert from quack school.

I was helped for a back problem, not a general medical condition. This is the area of the body Chiropractors work on, and the one the OP needs help with. As I mentioned above, I am also skeptical about the claims to heal other conditions. Sharing a positive experience of one Chiropractor for a back problem does not promote the whole discipline as being beneficial for a range of medical conditions.

5uspect

johnb25 wrote: »

I was helped for a back problem, not a general medical condition. This is the area of the body Chiropractors work on, and the one the OP needs help with. As I mentioned above, I am also skeptical about the claims to heal other conditions. Sharing a positive experience of one Chiropractor for a back problem does not promote the whole discipline as being beneficial for a range of medical conditions.

They claim that a whole host of diseases are a direct result of spinal misalignment, even denying that vaccinations are effective. What you've seeing is the blunt edge of the wedge. Sharing a positive experience of massage as a means of treating back problems is fine. That's very different to saying that the chiropractic technique was beneficial.

This distinction is important.

Akrasia

Also, testimonial evidence is scientifically worthless because the human body is a dynamic system that is constantly trying to repair itself and also because many conditions go through normal cycles of remissions and flare-ups by themselves.

As an individual, you don't know if going to the chiropractor improved your back pain, made no difference, or even delayed recovery. You can not know, any chiropractor who talks about 'in my experience this treatment works' is demonstrating an utter lack of understanding of how statistics and data and medical science works.

The only way we can judge the efficacy of chiropractic is through high quality medical studies and of those studies that have already been carried out, the highest quality studies show the least benefit.

Below is an extract from a Cochrane review of the best available research on the efficacy of Chiropractic. Note, of the 12 studies conducted, 9 of them were considered at risk of Bias (in favour of chiropractic) that the review specifically excluded treatments where only spinal manipulation was included, so all of these treatments would also have included some level of physiotherapy or massage as well as actual chiropractic treatment

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21248591
Short-term improvement in disability was greater in the chiropractic group compared to other therapies (SMD -0.36 [95% CI: -0.70 to -0.02]). However, the effect was small and studies contributing to these results had high risk of bias. There was no difference in medium- and long-term disability. No difference was demonstrated for combined chiropractic interventions for chronic LBP and studies that had a mixed population of LBP.

CONCLUSION:
Combined chiropractic interventions slightly improved pain and disability in the short term and pain in the medium term for acute/subacute LBP. However, there is currently no evidence that supports or refutes that these interventions provide a clinically meaningful difference for pain or disability in people with LBP when compared to other interventions.[/quote]


The conclusion that I take from this is that even where 75% of the studies are potentially biased in favour of chiropractic treatment, they still couldn't show that chiropractic was worthwhile compared with the alternatives especially considering the risks and other consequences of allowing pseudoscience access to the medical profession

turbot

OP,

I spend long hours in front of computers too. I've never been to a chiropractor.
My only symptoms are that sometimes I need a shoulder massage if I've been working for long hours.

You need conditions that support long term back health - I think thats better value that remedial services of what in practice may be hard to determine efficacy. If I did go to a chiropractor, I'd want to first speak to 5 recent patients who reported massive improvements within 5 sessions or less.

But as lifestyle conditions go, what helps me immensely is:

1) Get a comfortable high-end ergonomic chair. Like one of these:

http://www.businessinteriors.co.uk/the-top-ten-best-office-chairs-in-the-world/

2) Wear shoes that are well fitting and comfortable. Personally I think that Rockports (with their addidas soles) are like wearing trainers that pass as formal shoes. Solid plastic heels etc just strain your whole system

3) Make sure your posture is good. This is all about having stronger stomach muscles and good habits. You need to study this. It's all about how you walk and sit.

4) Stretch your muscles out

5) As alternative therapies for postural enhancement go, I'd choose a really good Feldenkreis practitioner over a chiropracter, but for both, it would entirely depend on the person.