General Rugby Discussion

molloyjh

That last Glaws try was so, so soft. Glaws were so pedestrian but still broke the line with ease.

thomond2006

27-0 with three tries, 20 minutes left

The French sides haven't changed their spots with regards to the Challenge Cup, they are still treating it as a development / second team competition.

molloyjh

41-0 with 15 to go. Brive are shockingly poor.

molloyjh

Are Sky trying to look like BT or something? Really don't like that studio. That big stadium thing in the background is daft, especially on nights like tonight.

Buer

55-0.

Brive sent their second string side. I supported the amendment of the tournament as it wasn't an even playing field given the qualification criteria of teams from the participating unions, however, this sort of effort does nobody any good.

Embarrassing result. Gloucester had a day less to prepare and haven't exactly been tearing up the AP. Brive were capable of making a real game of that.

sydneybound

In fairness Gloucester put out there full strength side at home and it includes some very strong players.

Brive were never going bother tonight given their poor form in the Top14 it's way more important to stay in that division than do well here especially away from home they would never have cared.

irishbucsfan

Thankfully now not every group is reliant on the French sides bothering to make them in any way interesting. The pools being stronger means if one team tanks there are at least other teams to keep the pools exciting now. Unfortunately Gloucester's group contains two French sides both of whom I don't really expect show much, so it will be affected more than others, but I'm looking forward to see how Zebre do in that group.

ssaye2

Joke

icdg

molloyjh wrote: »

Are Sky trying to look like BT or something? Really don't like that studio. That big stadium thing in the background is daft, especially on nights like tonight.

I quite like the new graphics though, even if some of them are a bit hard to read.

The fact that the theme music is familiar is a reassurance that although a lot of things are changing about European rugby, a lot of things will still be the same.

Also of non-TV note, "European Professional Club Rugby" seems to be already moving towards becoming just "EPCR" the logo on the referees jerseys is anything to go by

Hagz

purple.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

The difference between the Rugby Club on sky sports (on now), and that mess of a show on BT last night is incredible.

The BT show is just a bit different. It's a bit like Soccer AM I suppose. It's growing on me now that I just take it for what it is. The Rugby Club is a bit more straight laced and less likely to make you laugh but probably more informative from a technical perspective.

Winters

No easy games in the.. eh.. Amlin

Hagz

bilston wrote: »

The BT show is just a bit different. It's a bit like Soccer AM I suppose. It's growing on me now that I just take it for what it is. The Rugby Club is a bit more straight laced and less likely to make you laugh but probably more informative from a technical perspective.

The BT show is so very very English. That is their primary audience I suppose, but it's like sitting in a Wetherspoons with a couple of rugby teams on a p*ss-up.

bilston

Winters wrote: »

No easy games in the.. eh.. Amlin

The Amlin or whatever they're calling it now is going to be a big loser IMO. It may be a bit stronger in terms of teams in it but remove the qualification reward to the top tier competition and it becomes fairly pointless other than to keep non tier 1 teams ticking over during European weeks.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

The BT show is so very very English. That is their primary audience I suppose, but it's like sitting in a Wetherspoons with a couple of rugby teams on a p*ss-up.

It is undoubtedly very pro English but as you say that's its target audience. The Rugby Club used to be the same before Sky had European or Pro 12 rights.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

The Amlin or whatever they're calling it now is going to be a big loser IMO. It may be a bit stronger in terms of teams in it but remove the qualification reward to the top tier competition and it becomes fairly pointless other than to keep non tier 1 teams ticking over during European weeks.

This. And you can be damn sure the French won't be that bothered about it at all. It would be nice to see Connacht get some silverware though.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

The Amlin or whatever they're calling it now is going to be a big loser IMO. It may be a bit stronger in terms of teams in it but remove the qualification reward to the top tier competition and it becomes fairly pointless other than to keep non tier 1 teams ticking over during European weeks.

Really? The qualification reward did absolutely nothing to prevent French sides from fielding weak teams last season...?

How anyone can say this competition will be any worse is beyond me. Just look at the pools and compare it to last season. In case you don't remember:

Pool 1: Gloucester Rugby, London Irish, Bordeaux-Bègles, Mont-de-Marsan
Pool 2: Perpignan, Worcester Warriors, Femi-CZ VEA Rovigo, Bizkaia Gernika RT
Pool 3: London Wasps, Newport Gwent Dragons, Bayonne, Rugby Mogliano
Pool 4: Bath Rugby, Cammi Rugby Calvisano, Agen, Bucharest Wolves
Pool 5: Stade Français Paris, *Newcastle Falcons, I Cavalieri Prato, Grenoble

Again, a reminder of some of the points differences from those pools?

Worcester +276
Perpignan +204
Gernika -229
Rovigo -251
Mogliano -312
Prato -198

The pool stages were a total joke! At least there are more Pro 12 teams to even the competition out now, and there should be far far better ties in the pool stages this season at least.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Really? The qualification reward did absolutely nothing to prevent French sides from fielding weak teams last season...?

How anyone can say this competition will be any worse is beyond me. Just look at the pools and compare it to last season. In case you don't remember:



Again, a reminder of some of the points differences from those pools?

Worcester +276
Perpignan +204
Gernika -229
Rovigo -251
Mogliano -312
Prato -198

The pool stages were a total joke! At least there are more Pro 12 teams to even the competition out now, and there should be far far better ties in the pool stages this season at least.

That remains to be seen. On paper it would appear so but if there's nothing to be gained from the competition why would teams take it seriously? Especially when they could be focusing on their domestic league to try and gain entry to the Champions Cup.

Of course some will look to win silverware, but how many are going to take it seriously only time will tell. I do t think anyone can claim to know just yet. Except about the French. They almost certainly won't be bothered.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Really? The qualification reward did absolutely nothing to prevent French sides from fielding weak teams last season...?

How anyone can say this competition will be any worse is beyond me. Just look at the pools and compare it to last season. In case you don't remember:



Again, a reminder of some of the points differences from those pools?

Worcester +276
Perpignan +204
Gernika -229
Rovigo -251
Mogliano -312
Prato -198

The pool stages were a total joke! At least there are more Pro 12 teams to even the competition out now, and there should be far far better ties in the pool stages this season at least.

Yes the pools look stronger but I just can't see the French teams showing any interest at all. The Pro 12 sides will and while they are in contention so will the Prem sides but without the qualification reward it just seems like a calendar filler to me.

Hope I'm proven wrong though!

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

That remains to be seen. On paper it would appear so but if there's nothing to be gained from the competition why would teams take it seriously? Especially when they could be focusing on their domestic league to try and gain entry to the Champions Cup.

Of course some will look to win silverware, but how many are going to take it seriously only time will tell. I do t think anyone can claim to know just yet. Except about the French. They almost certainly won't be bothered.

It remains to be seen as you said, the qualification thing never excactly encouraged French sides to compete before, so I'm not sure there's much evidence that it would make any difference now.

.ak

Hagz wrote: »

The BT show is so very very English. That is their primary audience I suppose, but it's like sitting in a Wetherspoons with a couple of rugby teams on a p*ss-up.

Ha, in fairness that makes it sound not too bad!

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It remains to be seen as you said, the qualification thing never excactly encouraged French sides to compete before, so I'm not sure there's much evidence that it would make any difference now.

For the most part no, but the likes of Biarritz and Stade have taken it seriously the last few years. Primarily because it was a route to the HEC. Remember Cheika going nuts in the 2011 Amlin final?

At the end of the day if a team makes the knock-outs and is there or there-abouts to qualify for the Champions Cup in their domestic league, where do you think their focus is going to be? Or if they are in a relegation battle? The only teams that would prioritise this competition at the end of the season are those that are "safe", i.e. their season is effectively over as they can't change their circumstance domestically. With meritocratic qualification to the Champions Cup and relegation in England and France this severely limits who will make a real push for the trophy.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

For the most part no, but the likes of Biarritz and Stade have taken it seriously the last few years. Primarily because it was a route to the HEC. Remember Cheika going nuts in the 2011 Amlin final?

This is true, and the only thing you can really replace that H Cup place with is increased prize money (not sure there'd be enough yet to do that), but it would certainly be better to have the H Cup place, no doubt about that. However as I said, I think the changes far outweigh that negative overall for the competition. The pool stages are on a completely different planet in terms of the quality of sides involved.

At the end of the day if a team makes the knock-outs and is there or there-abouts to qualify for the Champions Cup in their domestic league, where do you think their focus is going to be? Or if they are in a relegation battle? The only teams that would prioritise this competition at the end of the season are those that are "safe", i.e. their season is effectively over as they can't change their circumstance domestically. With meritocratic qualification to the Champions Cup and relegation in England and France this severely limits who will make a real push for the trophy.

If a French team was there or there-abouts to qualify for the Champions Cup they would have ignored the Amlin anyway in favour of the Top 14 (either focus on the Amlin for a H Cup place, or focus on league for H Cup + Playoffs!).

If a team was battling relegation then I agree they'd probably ignore the competition, but again I'm not so certain they wouldn't have done that in the past either.

OldRio

Joke of a game last night. Not the best of starts for the secondary competition, and with no qualification prize for the winners. I think we will see more of the same.
Nothing but a filler.

CatFromHue

OldRio wrote: »

Joke of a game last night. Not the best of starts for the secondary competition, and with no qualification prize for the winners. I think we will see more of the same.
Nothing but a filler.

It's too early to say yet how the comp will go but I agree the qualification prize does look like a problem.

The thing is there's now only going to be 2 groups where the second place team won't go through to the QF's and there's Rovigo Delta, La Rochelle/Bayonne/Connacht, Bucharesti Wolves, London Welsh, and Zebre in respective groups 1-5 i.e. there's more scope to lose to the strongest team in the group as long as you beat the weakest so Brive losing away last night is not a big problem to them qualifying.

The other thing is that French teams who did take the comp seriously in the past were the better ones, or higher up the table ones.

former legend

More on the Steffon Armitage situation:
http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/news/29199.php

Apparently the Bath deal was only a runner if Lancaster guaranteed him a spot in the RWC squad, which obviously he couldn't do, so it fell through.

molloyjh

I didn't realise Sky got Wilko on board...

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

I didn't realise Sky got Wilko on board...

It was only announced yesterday.

Anyone watch the programme on BOD on BT during the week? It wasn't bad. As a kind of neutral on Sunday (obviously I want Leinster to beat Wasps) I'm more interested to see how he gets on as an analyst than in the match itself.

CatFromHue

former legend wrote: »

More on the Steffon Armitage situation:
http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/news/29199.php

Apparently the Bath deal was only a runner if Lancaster guaranteed him a spot in the RWC squad, which obviously he couldn't do, so it fell through.

Interesting that it was Laporte asking the impossible but binding question when he knew what the answer would be too. It's a bit of lip service by Toulon really as Lancaster, or any top tier National Coach, could never agree to a guaranteed spot for anyone.

I didn't know about the exceptional persons rule as I thought the can't play for England if you play abroad was only really fixed in place after the last RWC.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

It was only announced yesterday.

Anyone watch the programme on BOD on BT during the week? It wasn't bad. As a kind of neutral on Sunday (obviously I want Leinster to beat Wasps) I'm more interested to see how he gets on as an analyst than in the match itself.

Was I the only one annoyed by the fact that they spent more time talking about him being dropped from the Lions than they did his entire career at Leinster?

CatFromHue

What channel was the programme on?

irishbucsfan

I went to Scotland/Wales this year, and the second I said I was Irish EVERYONE was turning to me and saying "Warren was right" etc.

I just told em I didn't care either way, because it's not a good idea to start that argument in Cardiff, but it seemed to be the first thing that anyone thought about when the idea of Ireland entered their head!

CatFromHue

You should have thrown a potato at them

thomond2006

Article on Jack Kyle and Ireland vs England 1958 in a newspaper displayed in Old Trafford.

Jacovs

Own try awarded in a game by a TMO
sorry if posted before
http://www.sport24.co.za/Multimedia/Rugby/TMO-awards-rugbys-first-ever-own-try-20141017

croket

sydneybound wrote: »

Good article here about Romanian rugby and the Bucharest Wolves made up team for the challenge cup for anyone interested.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/15/lynn-howells-romania-rugby-world-cup-bucharest-wolves

Will they win a match in the WC?

They can beat Canada. They won over this team last November 21-20 but it will be hard...

They have some Top14 players in the forward packs, Mihaita Lazar (loosehead, Castres), Horatiu Pungea (tighthead, Lyon), Valentin Ursache (flanker, Oyonnax), some good players in ProD2 and their fullback, romanian star Catalin Fercu, signed to Saracens.
Their main problem it's they haven't any good flyhalf. For international games, scrum half Calafeteanu and/or fullback/centre Florin Vlaicu plays number10.
But for the next RWC, Romania wants selects some foreign players thanks to the "3 years residency rule"
- Mike Wiringi, a NZ fly half (former Taranaki player)
- Paula Kinikinilau, a powerfull tongan centre (former Otago player)
- Johannes Petrus Van Heerden, a south african lock (former Griffons player)
- Randall Morrison, a south african flanker (former Lions player)

Catalin Fercu, Saracens's new signing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u10jqdpBNU

As for this Emerging Romania team, called Bucharest Wolves, I would prefer see club champion for few reasons. First because this team would be much stronger, second because it's a club competition

aimee1

Michael Cheika to be new aussie coach if details can be finalised. Might be a caretaker in place for the tour but looks likely he is the only candidate.

CatFromHue

I wouldn't say the Waratahs will be happy to lose him.

Kiwi_knock

Cheika will stay on with the Tahs next year if he takes the job. Larkham (Brumbies head coach) and Foley (the Western Force's head coach) will likely join his coaching team, while remaining in their respective roles. It is a strange situation. Certainly not an ideal situation one year out from the WC.

baker59

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

It is a strange situation. Certainly not an ideal situation one year out from the WC.

Certainly not ideal but probably worth it.
Personally I think France should have done that a year or 2 ago but I got the impression that the World Cup was too close.

sydthebeat

Cheika named Aussie head coach.
Three year deal.

sydthebeat

Cheika named Aussie head coach.
Three year deal.

WTO

sydthebeat wrote: »

Cheika named Aussie head coach.
Three year deal.

The next next big thing. What will Australia do if he doesn't cut the mustard??

English Lurker

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Cheika will stay on with the Tahs next year if he takes the job. Larkham (Brumbies head coach) and Foley (the Western Force's head coach) will likely join his coaching team, while remaining in their respective roles. It is a strange situation. Certainly not an ideal situation one year out from the WC.

Well that's one way to get the teams following the same hymn sheet...

Idle aside, if anyone's interested, but the England U20 squad for the season contains two guys who'd previously represented Ireland age grade in Kieran Treadwell and Piers O'Conor.

molloyjh

Will Douglas be tempted home sooner rather than later so? Cheiks really rates him...

Buer

I suspect if Cheika was appointed a year ago, Douglas wouldn't be here. However, Australia go through coaches regularly so there's no certainty that Cheika will still be in the job when Douglas comes to the end of his contract.

sydneybound

Japan get a team into Super Rugby.

People don't agree but I see this as a good thing for rugby in Japan.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9531274,00.html

thomond2006

sydneybound wrote: »

Japan get a team into Super Rugby.

People don't agree but I see this as a good thing for rugby in Japan.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9531274,00.html

So what happens with the Top League now?

Yamanoto

Love how he nonchalantly jogs off during the melee, still puffing on his pipe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4IQgF_DGVc

Swan Curry

In what seems to be a fairly odd situation,James Downey was released by Glasgow to play for a team called Currie in the Scottish regional league today - against Glasgow Hawks,who seem to be Glasgow's A team