General Rugby Discussion

Larbre34

Funkstard wrote: »

Thornley said BOD and Wood should be 'embarrassed' not to have progressed further than a quarter final in the WC. He meant it in a positive way but it came across pretty bad and he spent about the next three minutes babbling on trying to dig himself out of the situation. BOD in general kind of sounded like he didn't want to be there, did anyone else get that?

Is that what it was! :rolleyes: I was chatting to someone down the back and suddenly the crowd went 'ohhhhhhhhh' and Gerry went very red on the screen and Wood looked sideways at him like he was going to tear him a new one.

Not sure how you can put that in a good way......

matthew8

Wasps 71-7 London Welsh. It really shouldn't be that easy, Wasps were even missing lots of internationals.

11 tries scored, that is absolutely ridiculous.

CatFromHue

welsh are well on course to concede a thousand points in the aviva!

Morf

CatFromHue wrote: »

welsh are well on course to concede a thousand points in the aviva!

Weepu to consume 1000 pints . . .

Swiwi.

Victor Vito is part of an eight-person panel along with XVs players Benjamin Kayser (France) and Andrew Trimble (Ireland), men's seven players Kyle Brown (South Africa) and Lee Williams (Wales) and women's representatives Rachael Burford (England) and Lynne Cantwell (Ireland).

The commission is chaired by former Scottish flanker John Jeffrey who also chairs the International Rugby Board's rugby committee. It is a partnership between the IRB and the International Rugby Players' Association (IRPA) and will provide a formal and more structured forum through which players can have their views channelled into the sport's decision-making processes.

Jacovs

You guys sure are lucky Willem Alberts is injured, or else he wouldve brought his moves
(cant find a youtube link to it)
http://www.sport24.co.za/Multimedia/Rugby/Avicii-feat-Willem-Alberts-20141117

Piliger

I'd love someone to start a separate thread to discuss the status of Irish pro players moving to refereeing either after injury or not making it to the top. We are so lucky in rugby to have some great referees, but we desperately need players with experience of the game to come forward and continue the line. Is this happening ?
Also what is going on with coaching ? We've had almost twenty years of really top quality Irish teams with some world class players. Do we have any candidates to go into coaching ? and why not ? I know there is Jackman ..... but we seem to be swimming in southern hemisphere coaches ... why not Irish coaches ? We have the mentality and the toughness and leadership qualities.

Fireball07

Piliger wrote: »

Also what is going on with coaching ? We've had almost twenty years of really top quality Irish teams with some world class players. Do we have any candidates to go into coaching ? and why not ? I know there is Jackman ..... but we seem to be swimming in southern hemisphere coaches ... why not Irish coaches ? We have the mentality and the toughness and leadership qualities.

Well... of the 4 provinces, 2 have Irish head coaches at the moment- Axel Foley and Neil Doak. Admittedly, Doak is only there in the short term until Kiss takes over. Both are 90s/early 2000s player who have done stints of coaching.

You've got the likes of Conor O'Shea and Mark McCall doing pretty well for themselves in England, with 2 of the biggest English clubs. Humphreys is now with Gloucester after a long spell with Ulster, although I'm not sure whether his Director of Rugby ball has much to do with on-field stuff, unlike the others.

Jackman is in charge at Grenoble.


Then there's a good few people in prominent roles around the place- Simon Easterby was in charge of Llanelli, now seems to be doing a good job as Ireland forwards coach. ROG seems to have an important role at Racing, Leo Cullen is Leinster forwards coach and Richie Murphy, Girvan Dempsey and Guy Easterby are involved there too; Mick O'Driscoll, Jerry Flannery, Brian Walsh and Ian Costello at Munster. Jonny Bell at Ulster, Geordan Murphy at Leicester, Mike Prendergast at Grenoble... I'm sure there are others.

Piliger

Fireball07 wrote: »

Then there's a good few people in prominent roles around the place- Simon Easterby was in charge of Llanelli, now seems to be doing a good job as Ireland forwards coach. ROG seems to have an important role at Racing, Leo Cullen is Leinster forwards coach and Richie Murphy, Girvan Dempsey and Guy Easterby are involved there too; Mick O'Driscoll, Jerry Flannery, Brian Walsh and Ian Costello at Munster. Jonny Bell at Ulster, Geordan Murphy at Leicester, Mike Prendergast at Grenoble... I'm sure there are others.

Most of these (not Easterby of course) would appear to be more like just senior players pitching in than anything else. Over all the numbers seem terribly low.

irishbucsfan

Piliger wrote: »

Most of these (not Easterby of course) would appear to be more like just senior players pitching in than anything else. Over all the numbers seem terribly low.

They're not senior players pitching in. They're professional coaches.

Like Conor O'Shea and Mark McCall, two of the most established coaches in the Premiership. And there's also Jeremy Davidson (who Clermont wanted).

There are plenty of good Irish coaches around at the moment.

Beery Eyed

Piliger wrote: »

Over all the numbers seem terribly low.

I wouldn't say that they're particularly low at all. As has been pointed out above, there are several guys making their mark at some really strong clubs throughout Europe. There is no real measurement for this obviously, but I'd say that the numbers are fairly reflective of the growth in the game over the past two decades.

All of the guys that have been mentioned were starting their careers in the amateur era, when rugby was very much a fringe sport in Ireland in terms of participation numbers. The growth in popularity of the game is now starting to affect the numbers who are going on to participate in coaching, etc. once they have finished playing. Given the large numbers of high level players in Ireland over the past few years I would fully expect these numbers to continue to grow.

One problem I do foresee, however, is the opportunity for these future coaches & referees to progress to the top level. Mostly the AIL is the platform currently used, with the provincial "A" teams now adding an extra stepping stone to professional coaching.

However, if we are to provide a platform for upcoming pro coaches & refs to develop, then I think that we will need to create a more consistent semi-pro competition between club and pro levels, similar to NPC, Currie Cup, or the National Rugby Championship recently introduced in Australia. B&I Cup is a positive addition, but it is possibly too fragmented to allow a young head coach to develop into a position whereby he could move into a full time role at a pro club.

Fireball07

Forgot Davidson.


It would be a huge risk for any big club to appoint a coach without any experience, being an assistant/backs/forwards coach for a big club is a good way to get into coaching and if you impress, you may be hired as a head coach in future. That's how Jackman and Foley did it anyway.

Piliger

Beery Eyed wrote: »

I

One problem I do foresee, however, is the opportunity for these future coaches & referees to progress to the top level. Mostly the AIL is the platform currently used, with the provincial "A" teams now adding an extra stepping stone to professional coaching.

These are young coaches who should also be going abroad to get experience like Jackman. Rugby is exploding all around the world now. I'd like to see more of these players develop more ambition.

And what about refereeing ?

Beery Eyed

Piliger wrote: »

These are young coaches who should also be going abroad to get experience like Jackman. Rugby is exploding all around the world now. I'd like to see more of these players develop more ambition.

And what about refereeing ?

True, going abroad can be a great experience for coaches, if that option is available. However, we can't just rely on opportunities being available for our young coaches abroad. That's why I think that there is a need for another tier of domestic semi-pro competition. So that there is a progressive stepping stone for potential pro coaches players & referees. It's not a slight against the AIL by any means, but I just think that best practice in the top rugby countries follows this template & we could benefit from doing the same.

The AIL is also the main route on the way to becoming a top level referee here. It's a high standard, and a tough, competitive level of game to referee. However, there is a step up in the pace of the game, and the level of experience required when moving to professional matches. Gaining experience in a competition like the B&I Cup, which has both amateur & pro players, is a good way of building experience for eventually refereeing top level games. In my opinion a new, more consistent competition would offer even greater benefits.

Piliger

Beery Eyed wrote: »

True, going abroad can be a great experience for coaches, if that option is available. However, we can't just rely on opportunities being available for our young coaches abroad. That's why I think that there is a need for another tier of domestic semi-pro competition. So that there is a progressive stepping stone for potential pro coaches players & referees. It's not a slight against the AIL by any means, but I just think that best practice in the top rugby countries follows this template & we could benefit from doing the same.

There is simply not enough interest in the public to support this kind of semi pro structure and it has to be self sustaining rather than bleed money from the IRFU. The world is our oyster. Expecting to find opportunities by staying at home on this tiny island indicates too many of our potential coaches may be too small minded and have an inferiority complex.

The AIL is also the main route on the way to becoming a top level referee here. It's a high standard, and a tough, competitive level of game to referee. However, there is a step up in the pace of the game, and the level of experience required when moving to professional matches. Gaining experience in a competition like the B&I Cup, which has both amateur & pro players, is a good way of building experience for eventually refereeing top level games. In my opinion a new, more consistent competition would offer even greater benefits.

I don't see it myself and again it is sad to see that there doesn't seem to be any interest among our elite players who fail to make the provinces. Former players make the bet referees there is no doubt.

The Lost Sheep

Piliger wrote: »

I'd love someone to start a separate thread to discuss the status of Irish pro players moving to refereeing either after injury or not making it to the top. We are so lucky in rugby to have some great referees, but we desperately need players with experience of the game to come forward and continue the line. Is this happening?
Also what is going on with coaching? We've had almost twenty years of really top quality Irish teams with some world class players. Do we have any candidates to go into coaching? and why not? I know there is Jackman ..... but we seem to be swimming in southern hemisphere coaches ... why not Irish coaches? We have the mentality and the toughness and leadership qualities.

Couldn't you start such a thread??
Refereeing requires a 'feel' for the game. You don't need to have played the highest level to be a quality referee but it helps in some ways. Johnny Lacey and Alain Rolland are only two current Irish pro referees with experience of playing at top level.
I don't play any more but referee. Never got near senior club level and about the highest levels I played were a bit at u20 AIL div 1 and starting a Junior Cup(not schools) last 16 game and a provincial underage final. That hasn't stopped me being a decent enough referee.
What about coaching? We have some quality coaches at AIL level and there is several former pro's coaching at one level or another.
Peter Bracken was coaching Connemara for few years. Trevor Hogan coached Nenagh and now is in Dublin coaching Blackrock u20s and he will definitely be coaching higher than that soon enough. And there is loads more. Marcus Horan is helping out in Shannon at 20s and possibly senior level.

Piliger wrote: »

Most of these (not Easterby of course) would appear to be more like just senior players pitching in than anything else. Over all the numbers seem terribly low.

They are not at all senior players pitching in. How are they and who are those that are just pitching in? All those guys are full time professional coaches

Beery Eyed wrote: »

One problem I do foresee, however, is the opportunity for these future coaches & referees to progress to the top level. Mostly the AIL is the platform currently used, with the provincial "A" teams now adding an extra stepping stone to professional coaching.

However, if we are to provide a platform for upcoming pro coaches & refs to develop, then I think that we will need to create a more consistent semi-pro competition between club and pro levels, similar to NPC, Currie Cup, or the National Rugby Championship recently introduced in Australia. B&I Cup is a positive addition, but it is possibly too fragmented to allow a young head coach to develop into a position whereby he could move into a full time role at a pro club.

Where is their issues in terms of referee's to progress? Its a very simple tiered system. You start doing underage games and touch judge adult games, you move on up to lowest adult grades then keep going up the ranks. Their is tiers for referee's to look to move up to and we will as soon as its deemed appropriate for us to move up.
I'm refereeing full time this season unlike previous seasons. I started with a few under 16 games, got assessed twice and then recently got an under 18 game to do again where I was assessed by a senior experienced official.
Referee's once they go past junior in their own province they go IPAS which involves refereeing junior games in the other provinces and then they move to AIL level which is the national panel(there is several tiers). They can then progress to refereeing games in other countries if required and a referee is requested.
British and Irish Cup is fine and we wont see anything more happen at that level as other sides from other countries(and probably ourselves) wouldn't be able to afford it and it would take more from the club game which we don't need

Beery Eyed wrote: »

True, going abroad can be a great experience for coaches, if that option is available. However, we can't just rely on opportunities being available for our young coaches abroad. That's why I think that there is a need for another tier of domestic semi-pro competition. So that there is a progressive stepping stone for potential pro coaches players & referees. It's not a slight against the AIL by any means, but I just think that best practice in the top rugby countries follows this template & we could benefit from doing the same.

The AIL is also the main route on the way to becoming a top level referee here. It's a high standard, and a tough, competitive level of game to referee. However, there is a step up in the pace of the game, and the level of experience required when moving to professional matches. Gaining experience in a competition like the B&I Cup, which has both amateur & pro players, is a good way of building experience for eventually refereeing top level games. In my opinion a new, more consistent competition would offer even greater benefits.

What you are suggesting already happens to a large extent.
We don't need another tier added. Work more and better with what we have then adding another tier of competition we simply don't need

Jacovs

Big loss for WP rugby if he decides to go.

"English club Bath are reportedly setting their sights on signing Springbok and Stormers No 8 Duane Vermeulen after next year's Rugby World Cup.
Bath are lining up Vermeulen as a second marquee player alongside Wallaby scrumhalf Will Genia.
The deal, which would be worth £450 000 per season, would make him the second-highest earner in the Premiership behind new rugby league recruit Sam Burgess.

letowski

Jacovs wrote: »

Big loss for WP rugby if he decides to go.

"English club Bath are reportedly setting their sights on signing Springbok and Stormers No 8 Duane Vermeulen after next year's Rugby World Cup.
Bath are lining up Vermeulen as a second marquee player alongside Wallaby scrumhalf Will Genia.
The deal, which would be worth £450 000 per season, would make him the second-highest earner in the Premiership behind new rugby league recruit Sam Burgess.

That's mad as it was touted initially that Burgess would play in the back row. Maybe they are looking at Burgess in the centre.

A backrow of Sam Burgess, Francois Louw and Duane Vermeulen would probably lack a bit of size and physicality

OldRio

Listening to the wireless last night it seems Bath want Burgess to play back row but England want to play in the centre.

icdg

iRB website now relaunched at www.worldrugby.org

Not sure what to make of the new logo - looks like a trophy rather than a rugby ball, which I'm sure it's meant to be.

awec

Me no like.

Hagz

I like it.

a.k. hates it.

George Hook

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Couldn't you start such a thread??
Refereeing requires a 'feel' for the game. You don't need to have played the highest level to be a quality referee but it helps in some ways. Johnny Lacey and Alain Rolland are only two current Irish pro referees with experience of playing at top level.

Just pausing you here, Alain Rolland retired last season so there is only Johnny Lacey left.



And darn that new website broke the link with the site for calculating rankings. *sigh*

Don't overly like the new site the front page looks a little busy. But I agree that the previous one did look very outdated.

Shero1985

Before I get slammed for asking, can someone please let me know of a way to get the new Down the Blind Side podcast as a feed on my podcast manager app (I use BeyondPod). Only way I can find to get through is SoundCloud.

phog

Dual Contracts offered to 12 Welsh players

Flipper22

Wow, big move from the Welsh. Looks like they're really going after the Irish model.

errlloyd

Scotland's success this season is clearly in part based on Glasgow's league form. The value of the domestic club game to celtic nations has never been more obvious.

Great news for the league.

b.gud

icdg wrote: »

iRB website now relaunched at www.worldrugby.org

Not sure what to make of the new logo - looks like a trophy rather than a rugby ball, which I'm sure it's meant to be.

The dark version of the logo kinda reminds me of the UPC Horizon logo. (sorry didn't have a version of the dark only logo)

.ak

So will there be a new RWC logo then?

former legend

.ak wrote: »

So will there be a new RWC logo then?

The rebrand will have no impact on Rugby World Cup 2015 branding or positioning, which will remain as it is with its iconic logo throughout the current event cycle.

Obviously.

.ak

So the logo will still have IRB on it? Hmm.

icdg

Apparently so. You'd think it would be a five second job to photoshop out the "IRB" from the RWC logo (it's tiny, but noticeable) but no it seems it's going nowhere.

molloyjh

icdg wrote: »

Apparently so. You'd think it would be a five second job to photoshop out the "IRB" from the RWC logo (it's tiny, but noticeable) but no it seems it's going nowhere.

They could have just waited 12 months either. It's not like this is a crucial part of the development of the game or anything.

irishbucsfan

icdg wrote: »

Apparently so. You'd think it would be a five second job to photoshop out the "IRB" from the RWC logo (it's tiny, but noticeable) but no it seems it's going nowhere.

It may just be the deadlines for confirming these things are passed, for things like merchandising etc.

sydneybound

Im suprised this hasn't made the news or if it did I certainly missed it.

Wasps confirm 100% shareholding in the Ricoh Arena (they previously had 50% share of the stadium)

http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/article/2014/11/14/wasps-confirm-100-shareholding-in-the-ricoh-arena

"we have already committed to by making over 12,000 free tickets available to Coventry schools and rugby clubs" and "Wasps will donate 50p to the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, the grant making charity which benefits the inhabitants of a 25 mile radius from the centre of Coventry"

In fairness both are decent things Coventry Wasps are doing, should be good for rugby in the area.

irishbucsfan

sydneybound wrote: »

In fairness both are decent things Coventry Wasps are doing, should be good for rugby in the area.

Yeah, I mean if they want to steal them out from underneath the other established clubs in the area they're going to have to work quite hard.

OldRio

sydneybound wrote: »

Im suprised this hasn't made the news or if it did I certainly missed it.

Wasps confirm 100% shareholding in the Ricoh Arena (they previously had 50% share of the stadium)

http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/article/2014/11/14/wasps-confirm-100-shareholding-in-the-ricoh-arena

"we have already committed to by making over 12,000 free tickets available to Coventry schools and rugby clubs" and "Wasps will donate 50p to the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, the grant making charity which benefits the inhabitants of a 25 mile radius from the centre of Coventry"

In fairness both are decent things Coventry Wasps are doing, should be good for rugby in the area.

50p. Tight buggers.

errlloyd

In fairness they were a homeless team with an empty stadium on offer at a decent price, although it'll easily be the biggest premiership stadium and will struggle for attendance. That will make getting tickets for Wasps v Leinster nice and easy.

Jacovs

5 Nominees for try of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGnbdhhn1wA

who_me

Jacovs wrote: »

5 Nominees for try of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGnbdhhn1wA

Are these the final nominations? Why not wait until after the November internationals are over?

Pudsy33

who_me wrote: »

Are these the final nominations? Why not wait until after the November internationals are over?

It's final alright. Tries scored this weekend will qualify for next year.

Apologies if already posted, did a search and couldn't find it anywhere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTMcNfs366c

MJohnston

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies if already posted, did a search and couldn't find it anywhere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTMcNfs366c

Great vid, but I just made the mistake of going and reading the comments...

accidentprone1

The Wheel of Time turns...

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/brian-odriscoll-amy-huberman-baby-1791276-Nov2014/

who_me

accidentprone1 wrote: »

The Wheel of Time turns...

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/brian-odriscoll-amy-huberman-baby-1791276-Nov2014/

Poor kid. Half the nation is already planning his career.

Swiwi.

Tim Nanai Williams is going to play 7s for Samoa, with the aim of using this loophole to qualify for Samoa, as he is currently NZ-bound having played 7s.

It's a good move, I would think, he is super-exciting on attack, but just doesn't have the defensive game to get picked for NZ. I'll doubt he'll stay in NZ now.

I would have thought any of the Irish provinces would be keen enough, but I imagine the French clubs will throw big money his way. A definite crowd-puller.

errlloyd

Swiwi. wrote: »

Tim Nanai Williams is going to play 7s for Samoa, with the aim of using this loophole to qualify for Samoa, as he is currently NZ-bound having played 7s.

It's a good move, I would think, he is super-exciting on attack, but just doesn't have the defensive game to get picked for NZ. I'll doubt he'll stay in NZ now.

I would have thought any of the Irish provinces would be keen enough, but I imagine the French clubs will throw big money his way. A definite crowd-puller.

His style is surely more suited to super rugby. Wonder if the new franchises might want to pick him up.

Edit: Nick Williams brother, wow never made the link, get big nick to bring him to ulster. Sure they need to replace Payne going to Leinster.

Swiwi.

errlloyd wrote: »

His style is surely more suited to super rugby. Wonder if the new franchises might want to pick him up.

Edit: Nick Williams brother, wow never made the link, get big nick to bring him to ulster. Sure they need to replace Payne going to Leinster.

I'd put money on him going to France or the UK. His style is suited to scoring tries is how I'd phrase it.

matthew8

Conor Gilsenan starts for London Irish tomorrow, his debut for the club.