General Rugby Discussion

total former

Dylan Hartley red carded. Again.

Molester Stallone II

total former wrote: »

Dylan Hartley red carded. Again.

An, his stupidity is legendary

thomond2006

jacothelad wrote: »

Perhaps the spectator simply told felon what the rugby world in general thinks of him. A total, despicable, cheap shot merchant who is a waste of blood and organs ... A total Canute as Castro might say. We of course can't and shouldn't abuse players on Boards. Even those that slither and slime about the place.That wouldn't be right. Right?

Ah come on jaco, tell us what you really think!

Bridge93

Don't see how the Northampton bench can be livid with that, certain red. Elbow to the face is scummy. Never thought I would say it but Leicester and Bath are about the most likeable of the top english clubs.
Northampton packed with scum
Saracens the same
Harlequins equally so
An epidemic in English rugby.

total former

Bridge93 wrote: »

Don't see how the Northampton bench can be livid with that, certain red.

Fair play to the TMO too.

JP Doyle; "I'm happy that's a yellow"
TMO; (pause) "Let me play that for you again..."

Bridge93

total former wrote: »

Fair play to the TMO too.

JP Doyle; "I'm happy that's a yellow"
TMO; (pause) "Let me play that for you again..."

Yeah was a rare sight. TMOs rarely ever stand up to the referees

aimee1

corbisero on BT claims it was just a yellow. Clear red all day long.

Bridge93

Some performance from Northampton. They've dominated since the red.

thomond2006

total former wrote: »

Dylan Hartley red carded. Again.

Hartley celebrates his new contract in his own special way.

molloyjh

Saracens had a good day againt LW today...

Bridge93

We should get a petition going for the game to end all games...
Treviso v London Welsh, curious what would happen but I suspect they might draw it they're both so bad.
Welsh in particular are a disgrace. Lost 78-7, how the hell were they promoted?

Larbre34

Hartley needs a long long ban, he has got to be the more disgraced player in the northern hemisphere. Mallinder must want to slap him hard at this stage

He already did himself out of a Lions tour, whats the betting he cant help himself miss the World Cup as well.

b.gud

Bridge93 wrote: »

We should get a petition going for the game to end all games...
Treviso v London Welsh, curious what would happen but I suspect they might draw it they're both so bad.
Welsh in particular are a disgrace. Lost 78-7, how the hell were they promoted?

Is there a possibility it could happen?
Atm Trevisio aren't gonna finish ahead of Zebre so they're gonna go into the challenge cup. Welsh obviously are almost certainly gonna finish last so is it them or the promoted team that goes into the challenge cup next year?

Deano7788

b.gud wrote: »

Is there a possibility it could happen?
Atm Trevisio aren't gonna finish ahead of Zebre so they're gonna go into the challenge cup. Welsh obviously are almost certainly gonna finish last so is it them or the promoted team that goes into the challenge cup next year?

Promoted team

The Lost Sheep

Bridge93 wrote: »

We should get a petition going for the game to end all games...
Treviso v London Welsh, curious what would happen but I suspect they might draw it they're both so bad.
Welsh in particular are a disgrace. Lost 78-7, how the hell were they promoted?

They had a good side and deserved promotion but they had a ridiculous turnover of players in the summer signing 25+ players and releasing/transferring out 20+ players.
Finished 2nd in championship and beat Bristol in Championship final. Shame as Bristol would have done quite well in Premiership.

b.gud wrote: »

Is there a possibility it could happen?
Atm Trevisio aren't gonna finish ahead of Zebre so they're gonna go into the challenge cup. Welsh obviously are almost certainly gonna finish last so is it them or the promoted team that goes into the challenge cup next year?

Promoted team gets the CC place

pickarooney

Bridge93 wrote: »

We should get a petition going for the game to end all games...
Treviso v London Welsh, curious what would happen but I suspect they might draw it they're both so bad.
Welsh in particular are a disgrace. Lost 78-7, how the hell were they promoted?

Come on... Nobody's bad enough to draw against Treviso.

mfceiling

Larbre34 wrote: »

Hartley needs a long long ban, he has got to be the more disgraced player in the northern hemisphere. Mallinder must want to slap him hard at this stage

He already did himself out of a Lions tour, whats the betting he cant help himself miss the World Cup as well.

`
He's a knob...plain and simple. I read a headline today along the lines of "Northampton hold on despite red card". I knew it was Hartley before i even opened the link.

thomond2006

Hartley could be in big trouble given his previous:

- 2007: Banned for 26 weeks for gouging
- 2012: Banned for 8 weeks for biting Stephen Ferris
- 2012: Banned for 2 weeks for striking Rory Best
- 2013: Banned for 11 weeks for calling Wayne Barnes a ****ing cheat

matthew8

It was barely a red though. Would be surprised if he got more than a couple of weeks.

matthew8

matthew8 wrote: »

It was barely a red though. Would be surprised if he got more than a couple of weeks.

Thought a yellow would have done tbh.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hartley could be in big trouble given his previous:

- 2007: Banned for 26 weeks for gouging
- 2012: Banned for 8 weeks for biting Stephen Ferris
- 2012: Banned for 2 weeks for striking Rory Best
- 2013: Banned for 11 weeks for calling Wayne Barnes a ****ing cheat

What happened between in 07 and 12, was he injured or something :pac:

In fairness today was silly but not that bad really.

Swiwi.

http://youtu.be/mIqpf0cv9AE

Definite red for me.

bilston

I'm surprised at people saying a yellow would have sufficed. He had his back to the player and swung his elbow round catching him in the face. He could have caught the guy in the temple or the eye. We have enough head injuries in the sport without allowing that kind of thing to happen. Red card all day long for me.

Swiwi.

bilston wrote: »

I'm surprised at people saying a yellow would have sufficed. He had his back to the player and swung his elbow round catching him in the face. He could have caught the guy in the temple or the eye. We have enough head injuries in the sport without allowing that kind of thing to happen. Red card all day long for me.

Yeah the mitigating factors come into the length of the ban but not the awarding of the red card itself. Can't have elbows to faces.

Buer

That's as clear a red as you want. He threw a cheap shot elbow, unexpectedly and busted a guys face. He had to go. It's not like there was any ambiguity, the blood shows that it wasn't just a clip; he caught him flush.

He deserves 4 weeks for it. I've defended Hartley many times but that was utterly thuggish and he can look forward to eating and drinking all he wants over Christmas now.

.ak

Absolutely mindless. What was he thinking? It's not even like he was being held onto. And the whistle had gone.

English Lurker

matthew8 wrote: »

It was barely a red though. Would be surprised if he got more than a couple of weeks.

I thought they started slapping on extra weeks for players with bad disciplinary records?

I might just be speaking out of hope mind, a few more big bans might provoke Lancaster into actually standing up for his policy on discipline and drop him.

OldRio

Deliberate elbow to the face, red card all day long. Such a good player but such a fool.

Bridge93

.ak wrote: »

Absolutely mindless. What was he thinking? It's not even like he was being held onto. And the whistle had gone.

The clearout was perfectly legal. Hartley instigated the scuffle and ended it. He has no defence.
Disappointed to see Mallinder trying to defend him and Northampton appealing it. Accept your punishment and move on.

aimee1

matthew8 wrote: »

It was barely a red though. Would be surprised if he got more than a couple of weeks.

he elbows an opponent in the face. It is a red card.

Look at the edinburgh/Treviso game. Treviso player red card for punch to head. Fist/elbow to the face/head when its thrown by a guy who is built for pure power is dangerous.

matthew8

I mean barely a red like just about a red. There's a big difference between what he did and what the Treviso player did. I'd be giving him a 2-4 week ban.

Great crowd for Wasps in Coventry.

Bridge93

CatFromHue wrote: »

What happened between in 07 and 12, was he injured or something :pac:

In fairness today was silly but not that bad really.

Sure by the looks of that 2007 ban it was well into 2008 before he played again!

The Lost Sheep

matthew8 wrote: »

I mean barely a red like just about a red. There's a big difference between what he did and what the Treviso player did. I'd be giving him a 2-4 week ban.

Great crowd for Wasps in Coventry.

It was a clear cut, out and out red. Nothing could be said for it to be dismissed as anything less than a red.

sydthebeat

Andy Goode breaks the premiership record for most points in a game. Got 33 today against London Irish, by the 70th min!!

Swan Curry

Just when you thought Dylan Hartley's elbow was the most stupid thing a rugby player did this week, Liam Williams goes to a fancy dress party.

Molester Stallone II

He went as Wilfrid Bony, only the supersensitive will take this as a black and white minstrel type incident

sydthebeat

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

He went as Wilfrid Bony, only the supersensitive will take this as a black and white minstrel type incident

Cheers, I didn't know who he was supposed to be.
What's with the corona? Just a byob party?

thomond2006

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

He went as Wilfrid Bony, only the supersensitive will take this as a black and white minstrel type incident

He had to apologise on Twitter after the PC brigade went to town on him.

duckysauce

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/wales-international-liam-williams-called-8324794

.ak

Jesus, like how else was he supposed to dress up as him? Ugh.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Jesus, like how else was he supposed to dress up as him? Ugh.

And then out pop the butthurt interest groups then nobody else has ever heard of. Unite against Fascism :pac:

A couple of Irish rugby players dressed up in virtually the exact same way in the recent past it should be noted. I don't really see how Williams' costume is offensive tbh, but race is such a sensitive issue, I don't think I'd be going out like that.

sydthebeat

Was the movie 'white chicks' racist?
(Apart from being sh!te)

errlloyd

Lads it's not about whether or not "blacking up" is okay. (I actually think it's not okay). It's about the fact there has been pretty high profile cases of people blacking up getting in trouble recently, and he still doesn't realise it's gonna land him in hot water.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

Lads it's not about whether or not "blacking up" is okay. (I actually think it's not okay). It's about the fact there has been pretty high profile cases of people blacking up getting in trouble recently, and he still doesn't realise it's gonna land him in hot water.

The reason it's an issue is because he blacked up. Either people found it offensive or others were sensitive to people finding it offensive. Although as noted above if a black person "whites up" the same rules do not apply.

If I went to a fancy dress party themed "People You Admire" and decided I wanted to dress up as Nelson Mandela how exactly should I do that? Or am I not allowed to dress up as someone with a different racial background? Is that itself not racist?

I don't like Williams but I think this is all a bit OTT.

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

The reason it's an issue is because he blacked up. Either people found it offensive or others were sensitive to people finding it offensive. Although as noted above if a black person "whites up" the same rules do not apply.

If I went to a fancy dress party themed "People You Admire" and decided I wanted to dress up as Nelson Mandela how exactly should I do that? Or am I not allowed to dress up as someone with a different racial background? Is that itself not racist?

I don't like Williams but I think this is all a bit OTT.

Here there are heaps of reasons why it's not okay to black up. Mostly because historically and even still today blacking up serves to perpetrate negative stereotypes of black people that are genuinely harmful. Blacking up in theatre used to allow white people to play the roles of black slaves, and black fools. They would dress up as people who were victims of a horrible system and make fun of them. That is why there is an extra sensitivity over blacking up.

It will never be okay to dress up as concentration camp victims, the same way it is never okay to dress up in the style that used to be used to portray slaves.

If you want some other comparisons, wearing Indian Headress, dressing up as Osama Bin Laden and (particularly stupidly) dressing up as rape victims are all a big no-no.

^^

HOWEVER: Even if you disagree with absolutely all of that. Let's be fair here, Liam Williams (and Paddy Jackson when he did it) was not on some Crusade for his human right to dress like a black dude. He was just ignorant. And despite the fact that pretty much every year someone high profile gets in trouble he still didn't realise it was a bad idea. That's the problem.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/30/blackface-halloween-costumes-obviously-offensive

Hagz

errlloyd wrote: »

If you want some other comparisons, wearing Indian Headress, dressing up as Osama Bin Laden and (particularly stupidly) dressing up as rape victims are all a big no-no.

Not gonna lie. I don't see anything wrong with dressing up as Osama Bin Laden or wearing Indian Headdress. I do see something wrong with dressing up as a rape victim though. Although I'm not sure how one would go about doing that.

With regard to "blacking-up". What makes it wrong is the history behind it and not the actual act of "blacking-up". Although personally I believe at a certain point you have to move on, and I would see nothing wrong with what Liam Williams has done. If he had "blacked up" whilst promoting a negative stereotype however that would have been different. But there's nothing wrong with a football player. I would view it as stupid however, simply because he should have known the heat he'd get.

Molester Stallone II

I was going to dress up as the incredible hulk tonight..... Don't think I'll bother now in case any martians get offended

sydneybound

Well anyway what do people think of the 28,500 crowd wasps got today? It's the biggest home crowd in a rugby clubs home ground ever in the prem (noted matches in Wembley & Twickers don't count as their not clubs home grounds).

It should be noted that they gave out 3,000 free tickets to school kids.

They averaged 5,000 at Adams Park so if they could average 10,000 in Coventry they would be doing extremely well.

They should get great crowds for local derby's against Leicester & Northampton.

Fireball07

I don't like Liam Williams at all, I think he is a horrible, scummy player who I'd happily never watch playing rugby again.

But...


I don't actually understand how that could be construed as racist. He is Welsh, he very possibly supports Swansea, Bony is their best player... dressing up as Bony would not be unheard of. The only way a white person can really pull off a costume that is of a black person is to apply something to their skin... the same way as Bony himself wouldn't be able to dress up as Liam Williams without doing the same.


In terms of the history behind it, with minstrels and stuff (at least that's the only offensive thing I could think of), I'm not sure of the relevance really... to be honest, there is just no way that dressing up as Bony could be racist unless he was making some racist comments/gestures while in costume or something like that.


I would have no problem with dressing up as, I dunno, Paul McGrath... and it would be 100% because I respect him and what he's achieved.