General Rugby Discussion

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

Well you could argue potential is different, a lot of players have that, but based on what theyve actually done Id consider putting them even on the same level to be a stretch

I'm not putting them on the same level, I'm saying Robson is better, in my opinion, based on his technical ability as a 9. Not based on their achievements to date (which is circumstancial). I would probably take Marmion ahead of him right now on a rainy night in Galway, but behind a good pack with momentum I'd take Robson. I would be very happy to have both in the same squad however.

irishbucsfan

That was a very special try!

irishbucsfan

Have to disagree with Doyle there, Kruis is very lucky there.

sydneybound

Cracking game on our hands here. Hope Gloucester can get the win.

sydneybound

Christ that was rubbish by Hook. God he was poor at kicking tonight, what a waste.

matthew8

My heart with that TMO decision and Gloucester +6.5. I thought I was finished!

irishbucsfan

sydneybound wrote: »

Christ that was rubbish by Hook. God he was poor at kicking tonight, what a waste.

sydneybound

****ing hell Hook the hero!!!!!! Lol!!!

Talk about pressure!!

sydneybound

I thought Gloucester missed there opportunity when Hook missed the drop goal. Then Ashton goes and runs in what I thought was a good try but ruled out.
What a finish to a game, quite far out against the wind and Hook bangs it over with the clock in red.

That's two massive wins for Gloucester away to Exeter and home to Saracens.

One thing I will say is that the Aviva Prem is some product, the last two Friday night games of 2015 have been hugely entertaining.

Harlequins v Leicester today in another sell out should be a decent game only problem it clashes with Leinster, reckon I'll be watching BT Sport.

errlloyd

Not quite rugby, but in the ultimate rugby app, is there any way to get back to home once I've clicked into a game without closing and reopening the app.

matthew8

Northampton taking poor form into Europe. Down 20-7 to Sale. Wasps down 20-5 to Bath but that's happened to a few teams away to Bath.

sydneybound

Great win by Sale 20 - 7 over current champs and league leaders Northampton. Steve Diamond after match interview should be good, always an entertaining character.

Half time at harlequins 19 - Leicester 9. Good game so far.

sydneybound

matthew8 wrote: »

Northampton taking poor form into Europe. Down 20-7 to Sale. Wasps down 20-5 to Bath but that's happened to a few teams away to Bath.

They were awesome at home last week, I think Sale must have played immense today. Braid was back for Sale after a few games out, he's a massive player for them. Good crowd of over 8,000 for Sale too.

matthew8

Wasps end up being murdered 39-12 right now, Quins doing really well 25-12 up. This sort of form gives us a great chance of second, first not so much.

pickarooney

errlloyd wrote: »

Not quite rugby, but in the ultimate rugby app, is there any way to get back to home once I've clicked into a game without closing and reopening the app.

This has Been as annoying the hell out of me for a while and I was searching for a thread on the app to see anyone had an answer.

Also is there a way of playing the videos in full screen?

Swan Curry

errlloyd wrote: »

Not quite rugby, but in the ultimate rugby app, is there any way to get back to home once I've clicked into a game without closing and reopening the app.

On Android, you can just go back to the home screen but if there are any matches on, it pauses to refresh the scores, even if they're all the same. It's a pain to use.

molloyjh

Swan Curry wrote: »

On Android, you can just go back to the home screen but if there are any matches on, it pauses to refresh the scores, even if they're all the same. It's a pain to use.

The arrow button at the top left no?

ouncer

On another matter was reading an article beside the report on the game today written by a British neurosurgeon. It was really an interesting read. It seems litigation is being brought against the NFL for the injuries players have to sustain in the american football league. The neurosurgeon makes the point that players these days are being physically built to make rugby a collision sport that is more attractive to the viewer. In the longterm he suggests that the facts will be damning. If we look at the possibility of sexton needing to retire early, how Craig Clark had to call it a day, how many shoulder reconstructions a player can take (Jake Heenan as example), just looking at the obvious physical damage the front row players show by how their ears are misshapen, never mind the underlying issues they will have to deal with in the later years of their life's due to the abuse their bodies have had to take for the entertainment of others I do wonder about the future of rugby. It is what I consider the game I most enjoy viewing but when you read such an article, you find it a chilling indictment of the game.

Mod Note: Moved from Connacht thread

pickarooney

Swan Curry wrote: »

On Android, you can just go back to the home screen but if there are any matches on, it pauses to refresh the scores, even if they're all the same. It's a pain to use.

Where is the button for this?

molloyjh wrote: »

The arrow button at the top left no?

That arrow is not there in the Android version and the home button just refreshes the page for the current match.

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

On another matter was reading an article beside the report on the game today written by a British neurosurgeon. It was really an interesting read. It seems litigation is being brought against the NFL for the injuries players have to sustain in the american football league. The neurosurgeon makes the point that players these days are being physically built to make rugby a collision sport that is more attractive to the viewer. In the longterm he suggests that the facts will be damning. If we look at the possibility of sexton needing to retire early, how Craig Clark had to call it a day, how many shoulder reconstructions a player can take (Jake Heenan as example), just looking at the obvious physical damage the front row players show by how their ears are misshapen, never mind the underlying issues they will have to deal with in the later years of their life's due to the abuse their bodies have had to take for the entertainment of others I do wonder about the future of rugby. It is what I consider the game I most enjoy viewing but when you read such an article, you find it a chilling indictment of the game.

Maybe better discussed in another thread than taking this thread off topic???
There is some issues at both pro and amateur level, many of which are quite different, but IRB/IRFU etc are doing a lot to improve the sport
What would you do to improve things?

vienne86

ouncer wrote: »

On another matter was reading an article beside the report on the game today written by a British neurosurgeon. It was really an interesting read. It seems litigation is being brought against the NFL for the injuries players have to sustain in the american football league. The neurosurgeon makes the point that players these days are being physically built to make rugby a collision sport that is more attractive to the viewer. In the longterm he suggests that the facts will be damning. If we look at the possibility of sexton needing to retire early, how Craig Clark had to call it a day, how many shoulder reconstructions a player can take (Jake Heenan as example), just looking at the obvious physical damage the front row players show by how their ears are misshapen, never mind the underlying issues they will have to deal with in the later years of their life's due to the abuse their bodies have had to take for the entertainment of others I do wonder about the future of rugby. It is what I consider the game I most enjoy viewing but when you read such an article, you find it a chilling indictment of the game.

The massive injuries are a real worry in rugby. But I am not sure that the game has gone this way to make the game more attractive to the viewer.

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Maybe better discussed in another thread than taking this thread off topic???
There is some issues at both pro and amateur level, many of which are quite different, but IRB/IRFU etc are doing a lot to improve the sport
What would you do to improve things?

I think, if you were to look at it, you have the two versions already. You have rugby league and rugby union. If you are a rugby union fan you simply couldn't handle rugby league. But then you have rugby sevens. So now you get a balance between both the rugby union and rugby league games with excitement added in. I have never understood the value of a scrum and how it adds value to a game. It takes an age to set and a lot of grunting later the ball is flung out to the back line. So I would remove the scrum.

That said I think the maul/ruck is a huge part of the rugby union game.

I think the contested scrum has to go. Its pointless, causes damage to players and funny enough is a pain to watch. Plus the ref usually gets the infringement wrong.

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

I think, if you were to look at it, you have the two versions already. You have rugby league and rugby union. If you are a rugby union fan you simply couldn't handle rugby league. But then you have rugby sevens. So now you get a balance between both the rugby union and rugby league games with excitement added in. I have never understood the value of a scrum and how it adds value to a game. It takes an age to set and a lot of grunting later the ball is flung out to the back line. So I would remove the scrum.

That said I think the maul/ruck is a huge part of the rugby union game.

I think the contested scrum has to go. Its pointless, causes damage to players and funny enough is a pain to watch. Plus the ref usually gets the infringement wrong.

How else would you restart game after knock ons etc without the scrum? Contested scrums are not pointless.

dtpc191991

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How else would you restart game after knock ons etc without the scrum? Contested scrums are not pointless.

You could have a line out in line with the knock on however I don't think taking out the scrum os a good idea.

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How else would you restart game after knock ons etc without the scrum? Contested scrums are not pointless.

There is already a means within the current game. You get a free kick to touch (opposing team gets the lineout) or you can run the ball. Contested scrums are pointless and dangerous to players. On top of that as a supporter they are one of the most frustrating parts of the rugby union game with constant resets and time wasting to wind a clock down.

sydthebeat

Scrums aren't a particularly dangerous set piece for players? ???
I don't buy "player welfare" as an argument for removing the scrum for one second.

The Lost Sheep

dtpc191991 wrote: »

You could have a line out in line with the knock on however I don't think taking out the scrum os a good idea.

You could but its a change not needed

ouncer wrote: »

There is already a means within the current game. You get a free kick to touch (opposing team gets the lineout) or you can run the ball. Contested scrums are pointless and dangerous to players. On top of that as a supporter they are one of the most frustrating parts of the rugby union game with constant resets and time wasting to wind a clock down.

I know there is options in some cases but scrums are not pointless and there is potential dangers but not enough of a danger for the scrum to be removed from the sport. Contested scrums are not pointless. They can be frustrating at times with 6 front rows trying to cheat in one way or another and resets are usually to make a fair contest or safe contest. I disagree with removing scrums as removing them will not make the game better. By having scrums you make more space in the field for others

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You could but its a change not needed
I know there is options in some cases but scrums are not pointless and there is potential dangers but not enough of a danger for the scrum to be removed from the sport. Contested scrums are not pointless. They can be frustrating at times with 6 front rows trying to cheat in one way or another and resets are usually to make a fair contest or safe contest. I disagree with removing scrums as removing them will not make the game better. By having scrums you make more space in the field for others

What you describe is what mauls/rucks already do in the game. On top of this you don't get the same level of cheating in mauls/rucks as the infringement is more evident to the ref. I'm not saying that the ref even gets the maul/ruck situation correct all the time but he tends to do better than looking at one side of the scrum when the other side collapses

bilston

Scums are integral to the game, and they have improved a bit with the set rather than hit aspect anyway. I'd still look to reduce the number if possible just to quicken the game up. Give a free kick option to teams in certain circumstances. They don't have to take it they can still scrum if they want. A crooked throw at the lineout for example. At the moment you have the option of scrum or lineout, give a free kick option too.

Tim Robbins

ouncer wrote: »

I think the contested scrum has to go. Its pointless, causes damage to players and funny enough is a pain to watch. Plus the ref usually gets the infringement wrong.

One thing that is supposed to make Rugby unique is that it is supposed to be a game for all shapes and sizes. Small stout guys can be rubbish at every other field sport but can be world class scrummagers.

On the ref point, yes some issues there - I agree. But refs are assessed, too many mistakes and they are gone.

As for damage, I think new scrum engagement is a massive improvement.

thomond2006

Is there evidence to suggest that scrums are more dangerous than the tackle area for example?

ouncer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is there evidence to suggest that scrums are more dangerous than the tackle area for example?

I can't say for sure if this true. The article did say that a report was been drawn up which would highlight where most injuries are incurred.

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

What you describe is what mauls/rucks already do in the game. On top of this you don't get the same level of cheating in mauls/rucks as the infringement is more evident to the ref. I'm not saying that the ref even gets the maul/ruck situation correct all the time but he tends to do better than looking at one side of the scrum when the other side collapses

That isn't true.
Of course the referee makes mistakes but at pro level which is what you are talking about all the match officials are all mic'd up and can communicate with each other on decisions

bilston wrote: »

Scums are integral to the game, and they have improved a bit with the set rather than hit aspect anyway. I'd still look to reduce the number if possible just to quicken the game up. Give a free kick option to teams in certain circumstances. They don't have to take it they can still scrum if they want. A crooked throw at the lineout for example. At the moment you have the option of scrum or lineout, give a free kick option too.

Maybe introduce a free kick in some situations as the scrum is a still a choice. Lowering number of scrums isn't great as scrums are fantastic for creating space for teams backs to use

Tim Robbins wrote: »

One thing that is supposed to make Rugby unique is that it is supposed to be a game for all shapes and sizes. Small stout guys can be rubbish at every other field sport but can be world class scrummagers.

On the ref point, yes some issues there - I agree. But refs are assessed, too many mistakes and they are gone.

As for damage, I think new scrum engagement is a massive improvement.

Referees are assessed and no too many mistakes doesn't mean they are gone. You need everyone so you are moved to a level you can referee.

matthew8

Newcastle are playing some wonderful stuff on their new pitch. Last year they were the most dour team I'd ever seen but this year it's really improved their play for me. I think our Irish pitches are all quite good but I'd like to see more of these pitches in Britain and France.

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Referees are assessed and no too many mistakes doesn't mean they are gone

You generally are gone. The assessment process is pretty rigorous at all levels and that is the main reason we have a pretty high standard in a sport that is very technical and difficult to ref to a high level.

The referee assessors are the unseen (and often unthanked) people who play a massive role in Rugby.

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You generally are gone. The assessment process is pretty rigorous at all levels and that is the main reason we have a pretty high standard in a sport that is very technical and difficult to ref to a high level.

The referee assessors are the unseen (and often unthanked) people who play a massive role in Rugby.

You are not gone. We don't have enough volunteers across the country to get rid of referees. You move them to a level like the lower age grades where you can keep an eye on them and it keeps others to higher levels.
Ive been assessed 5 times this season alone so you don't have to tell me about the assessment process.

irishbucsfan

Ref fight!

thomond2006

So I think Rotherham in 2003-04 was the worst league performance ever in the Premiership? They got 3 points and LW are currently on 1.

Neil3030

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You are not gone. We don't have enough volunteers across the country to get rid of referees. You move them to a level like the lower age grades where you can keep an eye on them and it keeps others to higher levels.
Ive been assessed 5 times this season alone so you don't have to tell me about the assessment process.

The former refs of the Leinster branch get must tickets down toward the northern end of the grand stand in the RDS, you often see big groups of them. It's absolutely hilarious watching them at matches, spend the whole game watching and commenting on the ref. The game is completely inconsequential.

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You are not gone. We don't have enough volunteers across the country to get rid of referees. You move them to a level like the lower age grades where you can keep an eye on them and it keeps others to higher levels.
Ive been assessed 5 times this season alone so you don't have to tell me about the assessment process.

Sorry. Misunderstood your point. I was talking about the higher levels and then you go back down which is what you were talking about. Apologies.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

So I think Rotherham in 2003-04 was the worst league performance ever in the Premiership? They got 3 points and LW are currently on 1.

It was a try bonus point too!

errlloyd

Apparently (I have no source) there are some rumours of Saracens players threatening JP Doyle post match. Anyone know where these are coming from.

phog

errlloyd wrote: »

Apparently (I have no source) there are some rumours of Saracens players threatening JP Doyle post match. Anyone know where these are coming from.

See here but still not confirmed.

If it happened and JP reports it they (the club) could be in a spot of bother as they'll surely be docked points.

aimee1

bilston wrote: »

Scums are integral to the game, and they have improved a bit with the set rather than hit aspect anyway. I'd still look to reduce the number if possible just to quicken the game up. Give a free kick option to teams in certain circumstances. They don't have to take it they can still scrum if they want. A crooked throw at the lineout for example. At the moment you have the option of scrum or lineout, give a free kick option too.

i think the put in to scrums rule should be changed. Left the scrum half feed it crooked so the game moves on.

aimee1

bilston wrote: »

Scums are integral to the game, and they have improved a bit with the set rather than hit aspect anyway. I'd still look to reduce the number if possible just to quicken the game up. Give a free kick option to teams in certain circumstances. They don't have to take it they can still scrum if they want. A crooked throw at the lineout for example. At the moment you have the option of scrum or lineout, give a free kick option too.

i think the put in to scrums rule should be changed. Left the scrum half feed it crooked so the game moves on.

.ak

phog wrote: »

See here but still not confirmed.

If it happened and JP reports it they (the club) could be in a spot of bother as they'll surely be docked points.

Shocking if true, poor form.

phog

aimee1 wrote: »

i think the put in to scrums rule should be changed. Left the scrum half feed it crooked so the game moves on.

That's already allowed in most cases.

Why not leave the ball at the feet of the No8 then form the scrum around them.

The hooker just needs to learn to hook again.

matthew8

I'd find the JP Doyle thing hard to believe simply because it's so serious. The potential repercussions are massive and I don't think they'd be stupid enough to do something like that.

thomond2006

That's pretty atrocious from Saracens if true. The entire squad should be banned for a week and whoever is playing them next weekend should claim a bonus point walkover.

Buer

matthew8 wrote: »

I'd find the JP Doyle thing hard to believe simply because it's so serious. The potential repercussions are massive and I don't think they'd be stupid enough to do something like that.

I'd take it with a pinch of salt but similar happened to George Clancy when he came under attack from club officials after an AIL game. People are stupid.