General Rugby Discussion

irishbucsfan

Ha, Brentford's ground is like the holy grail for faux-London rugby teams. That's where London Welsh stated they wanted to play when they were promoted a few years ago as well!

sydneybound

Brentford have got planning for a new 20,000 seater this would be a great way for LI to get back to London.

Unless you have a stadium already (Harlequins) or rich backers (Saracens) your doomed to be a London rugby club in search of a stadium in the city (London Welsh, London Irish) as its so expensive or just have to do a Coventry Wasps on it!

thomond2006

Gloucester have signed Jeremy Thrush.

bilston

sydneybound wrote: »

Brentford have got planning for a new 20,000 seater this would be a great way for LI to get back to London.

Unless you have a stadium already (Harlequins) or rich backers (Saracens) your doomed to be a London rugby club in search of a stadium in the city (London Welsh, London Irish) as its so expensive or just have to do a Coventry Wasps on it!

OT but the things are going it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that Brentford could end up in the Premier League next season! Now that would be something.

It's good that LI are trying to sign a few Irish lads now. I said a week or two ago that I don't have much love for them and it is ironic that in recent years there has been a stronger Irish presence at many other AP clubs like Leicester, Exeter and Harlequins. Still if some of our younger fringe players go there it can only improve the Irish player pool.

bilston

Given it's player contract renewal time amd given that almost every day we hear of a new signing for the AP can anyone tell me if, Sexton's return aside (which is obviously a very big signing in itself), have any of the four provinces announced ANY signings at all for next season yet?

total former

Bob Casey to take the reins at LI pending Kidney's appointment??

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2015/0113/672271-kidney-london-irish/

Swiwi.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Gloucester have signed Jeremy Thrush.

Fair enough. A decent hardworking lock, who took advantage of some untimely injuries to make his AB starts. I'd wish him well. His RWC spot will be touch & go as it is with the competition.

The NZRFU has publicly stated it wants all contracts wrapped up well in advance of the business end of the season, so I expect announcements of departures or re-signings to flow thick & fast.

As bilston said, Irish provinces conspicuous by absence so far. But early days.

Swiwi.

leftleg wrote: »

Dodgy article in todays IT re Hanrahans move by Thornley

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/jj-hanrahan-s-departure-to-northampton-is-desperately-deflating-for-irish-rugby-1.2063221?page=2

JJ Hanrahan’s departure to Northampton is desperately deflating for Irish rugby

I think GT needs to get a bit with the real world TBH. Ireland has mostly been a receiver of foreign talent in recent years - all gratefully received - but when the shoe is on the other foot it's "desperately deflating". Hopefully Gerry spares a thought for SA rugby, which with its weak rand, is forever exporting talent. In fact, it was rumoured for a while that Ulster would compete with the Southern Kings for that 6th SA Super spot NZ & Aus are pretty generous too, not to mention the Pacific Islands. I don't yet see a mass exodus from Irish rugby occurring, but if you're happy to take, you have to also expect to end up donating from time to time. It's the nature of free movement of people and trade. At least JJ is in theory still eligible to wear the green of Ireland.

Podge_irl

Swiwi. wrote: »

JJ Hanrahan’s departure to Northampton is desperately deflating for Irish rugby

I think GT needs to get a bit with the real world TBH.

Has done for a number of years...

bilston

Swiwi. wrote: »

At least JJ is in theory still eligible to wear the green of Ireland.

If he leaves it long enough he could be wearing white in the future...could you imagine!

Can we please not "acronymise" Thornley? I am a massive Gin & Tonic fan, and I'd like not to conflate the two.

Thanks

Swiwi.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can we please not "acronymise" Thornley? I am a massive Gin & Tonic fan, and I'd like not to conflate the two.

Thanks

While we are at it, Gerald rather than Gerry please.

CatFromHue

JJ moving is a blow to Munster though and I suppose the wider Irish community, but not the Irish Senior team though.

Bar Sexton he's still probably the biggest name to move from an Irish team in years too.

bilston

This made me chuckle

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-30814066

Morf

bilston wrote: »

This made me chuckle

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-30814066

Dirty gets . . .

aimee1

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ross-rennie-forced-to-retire-at-28-through-injury-1.2065905

cant help but feel we will see a lot more of this

sydneybound

aimee1 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ross-rennie-forced-to-retire-at-28-through-injury-1.2065905

cant help but feel we will see a lot more of this

I can see where you are coming from but with any contact sport your going to have an element of this.

Here's a few examples of footballers having to retire early due to injury.

http://www.givemesport.com/187743-when-injury-strikes-footballers-forced-into-early-retirement

As rugby is a lot more physical than football I think it does well as a sport for players not retiring too early, you'll always have a cases like this or with Tom Rees etc.

.ak

Yeah. I mean, players have had early retirements all the time. I think there's a possible element that because a few of are key stars are under the limelight in terms of injury we're really poking our head up at it; Fitzy, SOB, Earls, Ferris etc.

Not many neural injuries in football. (Cech being the exception that suggests the rule)

I think aimee1 might have been getting at that aspect of the early retirement.

aimee1

Deleted User wrote: »

Not many neural injuries in football. (Cech being the exception that suggests the rule)

I think aimee1 might have been getting at that aspect of the early retirement.

yeah I think with players just getting bigger and bigger we will see more and more players retiring early as a result of head injury

Squidgy Black

I think the NFL is the best example for forced retirement due to head injuries, players started getting bigger along with the hits and now it's common place in games for players to come off with concussions. It's definitely something that needs to be continually made aware to players at all levels of how serious it is, it's not like playing on with a broken finger or a sprain, it's a serious injury that can have long term effects on your mental and physical health.

sydneybound

Wasps have already sold over 15,000 for the game against Leinster with 9 days still to go.

http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/article/2015/01/15/over-15-000-tickets-sold-for-wasps-european-clash-against-leinster

So the crowds they've had since moving are 28,254 and 15,343 and the Leinster game will be close 20,000 I'd say. Crazy to think their biggest home crowd last year at Adams Park was 7,000 against Leicester.

The_Captain

Swiwi. wrote: »

While we are at it, Gerald rather than Gerry please.

I don't think Gervais would like being called Gerald tbh

thomond2006

Talebula at 13 at home to London Welsh. Bordeaux are going to rout them.

CatFromHue

sydneybound wrote: »

Wasps have already sold over 15,000 for the game against Leinster with 9 days still to go.

http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/article/2015/01/15/over-15-000-tickets-sold-for-wasps-european-clash-against-leinster

So the crowds they've had since moving are 28,254 and 15,343 and the Leinster game will be close 20,000 I'd say. Crazy to think their biggest home crowd last year at Adams Park was 7,000 against Leicester.

Those attendances would put them, roughly, second, third, or fourth best home attendance in the league!

phog

Nigel Owens talks about the scrum

.ak

phog wrote: »

Nigel Owens talks about the scrum

Interesting article, and insights into how the referees change their method and precedent on how the game is refereed depending what the public/referee management want.

errlloyd

Does anyone else read that bit about all the refs deciding who the repeat offenders are and warning them in advance a bit... dodge?

The Lost Sheep

errlloyd wrote: »

Does anyone else read that bit about all the refs deciding who the repeat offenders are and warning them in advance a bit... dodge?

What's dodgy/wrong about that? That's better for the gamee and should ideally make a referee and their other matchday officials job easier. Players know they are being watched and know if they don't act in accordance to the laws they will be penalised. What would you prefer the match officials to do?

errlloyd

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What's dodgy/wrong about that? That's better for the gamee and should ideally make a referee and their other matchday officials job easier. Players know they are being watched and know if they don't act in accordance to the laws they will be penalised. What would you prefer the match officials to do?

Well simple, if you and all the refs decided beforehand that Mike Ross is going down, you might not focus so hard on what everyone else is doing, you instead just focus on Mike Ross. It makes penalising that player easier mentally, and becomes self perpetuating. In criminology they've proved time and time again that profiling is one of the largest cases of false convictions. This is no different.

If Nigel is so confident he knows exactly what is happening in a scrum, why not just give the warning on the pitch? The fact that they feel the need to brief refs to watch for particular things just shows that they are missing things at scrum time. If they're missing things then what happens when a scrum goes down and it's 50/50, one guy you've been told to look out for, and one new prop. You blame the guy you've been told to look out for. All the other refs will back you up.

I am uncomfortable with referees not beginning every match with a fresh slate. I am even more uncomfortable with a referee who has predetermined notions based on another referees opinion.

The Lost Sheep

errlloyd wrote: »

Well simple, if you and all the refs decided beforehand that Mike Ross is going down, you might not focus so hard on what everyone else is doing, you instead just focus on Mike Ross. It makes penalising that player easier mentally, and becomes self perpetuating. In criminology they've proved time and time again that profiling is one of the largest cases of false convictions. This is no different.

If Nigel is so confident he knows exactly what is happening in a scrum, why not just give the warning on the pitch? The fact that they feel the need to brief refs to watch for particular things just shows that they are missing things at scrum time. If they're missing things then what happens when a scrum goes down and it's 50/50, one guy you've been told to look out for, and one new prop. You blame the guy you've been told to look out for. All the other refs will back you up.

I am uncomfortable with referees not beginning every match with a fresh slate. I am even more uncomfortable with a referee who has predetermined notions based on another referees opinion.

I totally get where you are coming from but this is just referees doing their home work on the teams they are refereeing which is what teams do in preparation for referees. Teams at pro level prepare for specific referees and how they referee the game so why should referees not prepare for a game by doing prep on how each team plays the game?
We as referees are briefed on all aspects of game on regular basis but that's just off the job training like any other job. Every referee(at pro level at least) will start off with a fresh slate to a large extent but if they know from previous games/weeks a/some player(s) will act in a certain illegal manner if allowed why then should they not be allowed prevent that even if the view is some what predetermined?
I apologise is this is somewhat all over the place:D

errlloyd

Yeah, and the way I phrased my post was meant to highlight that I wasn't saying it was outright wrong. I was more saying I thought that potentially there was an element of risk to it. I've admitted on this board before I couldn't ref a scrum. I don't know how they do it really. I just think there are too many incentives for cheating at scrum time.

Anyway. Scrums are bull****. Any team with enough dominance to win clean possession at scrum time will use that dominance to milk a penalty. Therefore Scrums will never serve their primary purpose, which is meant to be, temporarily turning rugby into a game of 7s so we can see sexy rugby happening.

sydthebeat

Scrums work perfectly fine in super xv, so the problems certainly do come from the players and their attitudes.

Im sure in 10 years time when NO is looking back at this time in rugby he will name and shame the continuous offenders.

sjwpjw

When we were playing recently one boy was constantly entering the ruck (as a defender) through the gate (just about) and tipping one of the other team over even though the attacking Rucker was bound to other players.

It was as if the defender was cleaning out a jackal except he wasn't and there were more than 4 rucking.

The coaches and ref felt this was fine.

Is it?

I thought there was a law against collapsing rucks or an obligation to stay up.

Thanks

sydthebeat

At amateur level, and especially with kids, rucks are going to be a total mess. As long as they are safe and not totally illegal refs will let things go.

Remember rucking is a strength / pushing contest over a ball so you will definitely get bodies falling all over the place.

As long as players don't flop down deliberately in the ball restricting play, then it's generally fine.

The coach could have a word with his team and get them to focus on the first defender who entered to jackle more though. If that player is rucked and pushed backwards, The offside line moves back with his back foot. That pushes his defensive line backwards and makes it harder for his team mates to enter the gate, winning more time for the attacking team.

sydthebeat

Peter saili cut from blues with immediate effect and looks like he's going to join a French club within the next month.

Swiwi.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Peter saili cut from blues with immediate effect and looks like he's going to join a French club within the next month.

Yes I suspect more than meets the eye with this. Unusual move for NZRFU to grant early release and I expect € changed hands. But details won't be released. He's kind of the new Nick Williams. Moments of raw power mixed in with dross.

Yeah_Right

Few preseason issues at the Blues. George Moala has just been convicted of assault.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11387481

The Lost Sheep

sydthebeat wrote: »

At amateur level, and especially with kids, rucks are going to be a total mess. As long as they are safe and not totally illegal refs will let things go.

Remember rucking is a strength / pushing contest over a ball so you will definitely get bodies falling all over the place.

As long as players don't flop down deliberately in the ball restricting play, then it's generally fine.

The coach could have a word with his team and get them to focus on the first defender who entered to jackle more though. If that player is rucked and pushed backwards, The offside line moves back with his back foot. That pushes his defensive line backwards and makes it harder for his team mates to enter the gate, winning more time for the attacking team.

Totally agree with that. If you go overly technical with kids you can put them off the sport. Player safety essential and as long as it is borderline ok then play on as you could be there all day otherwise.
Talk to coach and player and give some advice if you have to.

Winters

CatFromHue wrote: »

Those attendances would put them, roughly, second, third, or fourth best home attendance in the league!

Based on the 2013/2014 season it would put them a close second.

Leicester Tigers - 22,852
Gloucester - 14,015
Harlequins - 13,352
Saints - 13,092

Average attendances above do not include games in Twickenham or Wembley etc.

For comparison Wasps' average attendance in Adams Park last season was 5,862.

Also the Irish teams are averaging the following so far this season.

Leinster - 15,643 (RDS only)
Ulster - 15,518
Munster - 16,003 (All TP)
Connacht - 5,645

I have a spreadsheet..

ouncer

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah, and the way I phrased my post was meant to highlight that I wasn't saying it was outright wrong. I was more saying I thought that potentially there was an element of risk to it. I've admitted on this board before I couldn't ref a scrum. I don't know how they do it really. I just think there are too many incentives for cheating at scrum time.

Anyway. Scrums are bull****. Any team with enough dominance to win clean possession at scrum time will use that dominance to milk a penalty. Therefore Scrums will never serve their primary purpose, which is meant to be, temporarily turning rugby into a game of 7s so we can see sexy rugby happening.

Now you are talking my language. Scrums are utterly pointless. Even on the 5metre line they are pointless. With a quick tip and run job is done. I thought the mention that scrums offer opportunity is so daft. They hold up the game and every player is setup laterally to defend each position on the field. Its muck. Its just a bunch of big lads doing nothing.

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

Now you are talking my language. Scrums are utterly pointless. Even on the 5metre line they are pointless. With a quick tip and run job is done. I thought the mention that scrums offer opportunity is so daft. They hold up the game and every player is setup laterally to defend each position on the field. Its muck. Its just a bunch of big lads doing nothing.

Utter rubbish. Scrums create space on the pitch. They provide good meaningful contest for possession(at least when refereed correctly). Removing or drastically changing scrum would be bad for the sport

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Utter rubbish. Scrums create space on the pitch. They provide good meaningful contest for possession(at least when refereed correctly). Removing or drastically changing scrum would be bad for the sport

Disagree mucho. Had considered stronger words but I I restrained myself:-). Its just static crap. Both lines are set. Utter rubbish. No need to referee something that refs get wrong so often and is in reality meaningless.

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Utter rubbish. Scrums create space on the pitch. They provide good meaningful contest for possession(at least when refereed correctly). Removing or drastically changing scrum would be bad for the sport

Knew there was a statement that was bugging me. Scrums create space on the pitch. Are you kidding me. Scrums kill the game and at best allow teams to reset their formations. Scrums create nothing, they just add to an injury list. Both teams get a breather while the big boys muck about for the benefit of the paying public

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

Disagree mucho. Had considered stronger words but I I restrained myself:-). Its just static crap. Both lines are set. Utter rubbish. No need to referee something that refs get wrong so often and is in reality meaningless.

A scrum is far from static. Yes referees sometimes do get scrum calls wrong but to say that scrums are meaningless is showing a completely naïve assessment and knowledge of the sport. To replace scrums with a tap and go Is moving towards rugby league which we don't need to do. Scrums are in no way meaningless. They offer good contest for possession, create so much space for teams to attack into and try to defend and add to the game(when refereed in right manner and players know any funny business and they'll be penalised)

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

Knew there was a statement that was bugging me. Scrums create space on the pitch. Are you kidding me. Scrums kill the game and at best allow teams to reset their formations. Scrums create nothing, they just add to an injury list. Both teams get a breather while the big boys muck about for the benefit of the paying public

Scrums do create space. Compact the 16 forwards and both scrum halfs into a relatively small space on the pitch there is more space for backs to operate. Scrums don't kill the game if they are done correctly. If their is constant resets, collapses the game is impacted negatively yet but you are talking crap when you say they just add to the injury list. As for your comment about teams getting a breather:rolleyes:

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Scrums do create space. Compact the 16 forwards and both scrum halfs into a relatively small space on the pitch there is more space for backs to operate. Scrums don't kill the game if they are done correctly. If their is constant resets, collapses the game is impacted negatively yet but you are talking crap when you say they just add to the injury list. As for your comment about teams getting a breather:rolleyes:

You seem to totally miss the point(s). Breather. It takes for ever to form the scrum so everybody gets a breather..

Buer

ouncer wrote: »

You seem to totally miss the point(s). Breather. It takes for ever to form the scrum so everybody gets a breather..

Not sure you've ever packed down in a scrum then. Utterly exhausting to be involved in several scrums in rapid succession or a series of resets. Backs might get a breather while they're waiting but any rest forwards get waiting for the scrum to form is more than undone by the scrum itself.

errlloyd

I think it's amazing how close to a South African starting 15 we could get in Ireland.

Weibhan Herbst
Richardt Strauss
BJ Botha
Franco van de Merwe
Quinn Roux
Robbie Diack
CJ Stander

Ruan Pieenar

Gerhard Van Den Heveer
Pat Howard
Danie Poolman
Louis Ludik
Zane Kirchener

a 7 and a 10 away from a team (with a few subs)

Wang King

Johnny Van Der Sexton?