General Rugby Discussion

Buer

It opens a complete can of worms regarding contesting the ball and accidentally connecting with an airborne or unexpecting player. The only real difference is that you're generally making a real effort to go for the ball which Hughes couldn't have been (and if he was, that's illegal in itself).

The other downside is that this completely undermines a young and promising referee who had to deal with 20 stone, 6'5" tank remonstrating with him while sticking to his guns.

sydthebeat

What "additional evidence" I wonder

Bridge93

If it's being overturned, Wasps can feel slightly aggrieved that it was deemed not a punishable offence yet they lost Hughes for their biggest game of the season.
Was the ban totally overturned or reduced to a week?

connemara man

sydthebeat wrote: »

What "additional evidence" I wonder

Nathan Hughes said " I'm really really really sorry" :P

Hagz

Right decision imo. Shouldn't have been a ban in the first place.

CatFromHue

Hagz wrote: »

Right decision imo. Shouldn't have been a ban in the first place.

Whaaaaaaaatttttt?

thomond2006

Hagz wrote: »

Right decision imo. Shouldn't have been a ban in the first place.

Currently bans/punishments are being judged based on the impact on the victim. North was knocked out and you say there should be no suspension?

English Lurker

While having no particular brief one way or the other - I see merit in both sides of the argument - I find the ruling absolutely ludicrous when placed besides other recent disciplinary matters and am close to completely perplexed as to what rules the game are being played under.

World Rugby need to act very, very quickly to establish a clear framework on dangerous play or the sport risks becoming a laughing stock.

It's more likely we'll get another secret memo making big changes to the game that spectators are not really aware of until there's been another massive controversy - again.

awec

Ban overturned cause he doesn't play for Ulster.

What a farce. This sort of thing really pisses me off.

.ak

I also think he shouldn't have beem banned in the first place.

What eastmond did to McFadden was more worthy of a ban imo and wasn't even looked at.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Ban overturned cause he doesn't play for Ulster.

What a farce. This sort of thing really pisses me off.

You've a right to feel aggrieved. LM is a few weeks into a 5 week ban for a very, very similar incident.

It may be just an impression I have (and if I get time I'll do some searching to support) but I'm beginning to think that the Pro12 is by far the harshest league in terms of suspensions. The leagues whose disciplinary committees are domestic seem to be kinder to those in the dock, particularly in the Aviva Premiership, who don't appear to take these incidents as seriously.

Hartley, for example, has an atrocious record and copped only 3 weeks for an elbow to the face in recent times. Tuilagi received 5 weeks for attacking Chris Ashton in a manner that would have him in prison if on the street. Calum Clark got a 32 week suspension for purposely breaking another player's arm (including the summer months so missed only April, May, September and October). It wasn't his first suspension and he should have been given 18 months.

Interestingly, the man who rescinded Hughes' ban was also the same man (it was a one man committee) who only gave Hartley 3 weeks for the elbow. On that occasion, Summers listened to the case via conference call (!) and deemed it only the low-end, entry point level of offence. A conference call with a one man panel to judge on a high level incident seems to be quite dismissive to my mind.

I believe if those incidents were in the Pro12, we'd see significantly longer bans. Was Luke Marshall's incident deserving of the same as Manu Tuilagi's assault?

Buer

.ak wrote: »

What eastmond did to McFadden was more worthy of a ban imo and wasn't even looked at.

It was interesting and quite unusual to hear McFadden comment on it at an event during the week. He said he was disappointed the incident wasn't looked at by Garces at the time. He said it was entirely accidental but felt the tackle was definitely worthy of at least being reviewed. Instead, he was deemed to have knocked on which is pretty silly. An unconscious player dropping the ball should be instant stoppage and restart with a scrum to team in possession.

aimee1

Billy v cited for striking with his head. Could miss sarries semi final

bilston

Vunipola cleared to play against Clermont

I didn't see the incident and haven't been able to find it on Youtube so can anyone tell me if this is fair enough or is this another example of Buer's claim that the AP are pretty lenient?

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

It may be just an impression I have (and if I get time I'll do some searching to support) but I'm beginning to think that the Pro12 is by far the harshest league in terms of suspensions. The leagues whose disciplinary committees are domestic seem to be kinder to those in the dock, particularly in the Aviva Premiership, who don't appear to take these incidents as seriously.?

Just saw this one, but I think the difference with the AP is to do with their relationship with the RFU. The Hughes appeal was heard by an independent panel appointed by the RFU rather than the league. I'm not really sure who handles that stuff in France but I believe it's the FFR there as well, whereas the international nature of the Pro 12 makes things quite different for us.

Teferi

Ian McKinley has been chosen for the latest Barbarians squad playing against a local Scottish club.

thomond2006

bilston wrote: »

Vunipola cleared to play against Clermont

I didn't see the incident and haven't been able to find it on Youtube so can anyone tell me if this is fair enough or is this another example of Buer's claim that the AP are pretty lenient?

Fat chance someone playing for BT Sport Saracens was ever going to get banned!

CatFromHue

Peter O'Mahony will be on Second Captains tonight.

Andy Lee is also on so I'm guessing he'll be the main interview.

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

Peter O'Mahony will be on Second Captains tonight.

Andy Lee is also on so I'm guessing he'll be the main interview.

Who is Andy Lee?

its_phil

jacothelad wrote: »

Who is Andy Lee?

Maybe a joke, but really?

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

Who is Andy Lee?

He's a boxer.

Represented Ireland at the 04 Olympics and is now a WBO World Champion.

total former

Bernard Foley the first Aussie to sign a "flexible" contract with the ARU, to allow him to play in Japan and remain eligible for national selection:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/waratahs/bernard-foley-japanbound-between-three-more-seasons-with-waratahs-20150416-1mm4sr.html

Bad news for the franchises?

bilston

its_phil wrote: »

Maybe a joke, but really?

I genuinely didn't know either!

Buer

bilston wrote: »

I genuinely didn't know either!

For balance, I'd say a lot of people on here don't know who Carl Frampton is either.

Before winning the title (which was pretty small news, relatively) I only knew Andy Lee because he features now and again on Off The Ball and was involved in punditry in the last Olympics.

sydthebeat

i remember andy from the 2004 olympics where he was cruelly decided against in his second bout.
amazingly he was our only boxer that year !

compared to 2008 where we sent 5 and had 3 medalists
and 2012 where we sent 6 and had 4 medalist

Swiwi.

total former wrote: »

Bernard Foley the first Aussie to sign a "flexible" contract with the ARU, to allow him to play in Japan and remain eligible for national selection:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/waratahs/bernard-foley-japanbound-between-three-more-seasons-with-waratahs-20150416-1mm4sr.html

Bad news for the franchises?

Not for the franchises no. Aussie with a potentially weaker side for their autumn internationals though. But of course full strength NH sides downunder in June is more the exception than the rule these days. We are heading to soccer lads with increasingly less meaningful international fixtures although the 6N looks safe for the moment.

Wang King

Declan Fitzpatrick has been forced to retire due to head injuries

.ak

Jesus. Crappy news.

Fireball07

Wang King wrote: »

Declan Fitzpatrick has been forced to retire due to head injuries

Shít, that's awful news.

Wang King

http://t.co/AJRpPFXoQb

Linky

Poor Deccie Fitz,

At least he had an absolute stormer in the 14 mins of his final Ireland Cap (vs none other than NZ).



(3 of his 7 caps were v NZ!)

ssaye2

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/easterby-calls-on-irfu-to-review-player-management-rules-31146857.html

Dave_The_Sheep

Has he brought this up now, or is it only that Leinster are struggling this year? Or is it down to the new RCC format?

bilston

To be honest once the Six Nations are over I think the provinces should be given total control of the players to play when they like. There are no Ireland games now until August (Barbarians game is less important than a Pro 12 play off or a Inter Pro game IMO) so why not just let the players play. They will have June and July to rest.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

To be honest once the Six Nations are over I think the provinces should be given total control of the players to play when they like. There are no Ireland games now until August (Barbarians game is less important than a Pro 12 play off or a Inter Pro game IMO) so why not just let the players play. They will have June and July to rest.

They were only rested the first week after the 6 Nations though so is it really that big a deal?

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

They were only rested the first week after the 6 Nations though so is it really that big a deal?

I've no problem with that, but did Leinster not rest players last weekend as well?

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

I've no problem with that, but did Leinster not rest players last weekend as well?

Was that not MOC's own choice with Toulon & Ulster to come? Leinster really should have been good enough to beat Dragons with the team they put out, they had it within their grasp.

irishbucsfan

Fireball07 wrote: »

Was that not MOC's own choice with Toulon & Ulster to come? Leinster really should have been good enough to beat Dragons with the team they put out, they had it within their grasp.

If Leinster can only play the guys under the Player Management system 8 games a season then the choice is being taken out of Leinster's hands.

CatFromHue

Fireball07 wrote: »

Was that not MOC's own choice with Toulon & Ulster to come? Leinster really should have been good enough to beat Dragons with the team they put out, they had it within their grasp.

It is understood that the provincial coaches can only play their centrally contracted players in a maximum of eight regular-season league games in each campaign, meaning O'Connor was faced with a choice between playing his front-liners against the Dragons last Sunday or against Ulster tomorrow week.

To me it was both

Podge_irl

8 league games is a joke.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

8 league games is a joke.

Is it though?

8 regular season Pro12 + 6 ERCC pool games + 5 Six Nations + 2 AIs + 2 Summer Tour = 23 games.

Add to that whatever knock out games the province makes and you're generally looking at 25+ games.

Leinster have 22 regular season games + 6 ERCC pool games, which is 28 games. Add in the knock-outs and it's 30+.

So internationals are playing approximately 5 games less per season than Leinster do as a whole. Given the higher intensity involved in the games they play in that doesn't strike me as being that bad at all really.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

Is it though?

Yes.

I'm not talking about from a player perspective here, but if the international players can really only play in 8 league games its helping to undermine all the progress that has been made with the league. And it's applied far too rigidly for my liking as well.

Buer

It's pretty stupid. It's in no way an excuse for Leinster's poor showings and they had more than enough on the field to win last weekend. With that said, if you've a do or die game that impacts heavily on next season then you need to be flexible on this.

Jamie Heaslip, by his standards, has not played a huge amount of rugby this year (only 2.5 games in the 6N and limited time in January). The presence of just one or two guys like him would have meant Leinster would still be in the Pro12 mix at the moment.

thomond2006

To put that in context, the French internationals are restricted to 30 games assuming no injuries. That includes the summer tour of the previous season, so some players started this season with 3/30 games already played.

8 league games is a joke. It makes a mockery out of the league and while I don't want the players to be flogged is there any evidence to suggest that this prevents injuries? I don't see how a one size fits all policy can work. Surely you need a case-by-case basis to factor in age, position, injury risk/history etc.

.ak

Yep, my feelings are the same on this; I believe we do need a player welfare scheme but I don't think it's flexible enough.

sydthebeat

the current system simply doesnt reflect the seismic shift we've had with this years league where every game counts.
it has to change

also, does "time on pitch" count towards game splayed ie does 2 halves = 1 whole game?

centrally contracted players also wouldnt make up the majority of the summer tour games, usually players coming back from injury or up and coming players would be picked first


so @ 22 league round games per season before knockouts, only playing 8 is a measly 36% of games.
not good enough for your bread and butter job.

total former

If you actually read Easterby's comments, and I suspect many people didn't, they are about as uncontroversial bordering on dull as you could imagine:

You find things out as the season unfolds with the new structure. If that means it leads to a discussion at the end of the season about how it can be improved, how changes can be made that aren't detrimental to anyone, but work well for everyone, then discussions will take place.
You're not going to get it right the first year. As long as people are prepared to have discussions, I think we can make it a working format.

Just typical Indo clickbait.

Surprised to see that Connacht stat

CatFromHue

White, Ah You, Heenan, Naupou, Nikora, Muliana, and Aki

McCartney too

b.gud

That chart is slightly misleading IMO.

If I knew nothing about Connacht rugby I would read it as Connacht have 7 All blacks when in fact we have 7 New Zealanders but only1 All Black