General Rugby Discussion

irishbucsfan

English Lurker wrote: »

Oh, he'll be back unless his injury problems get too much or he does something else stupid. England don't have enough centres of his calibre to hold a moral position for too long, sadly.

Besides, a man who keeps picking Hartley and Calum Clark can't be too interested in moral causes, hence my cynicism about sponsors.



Don't think Delon was ever named in any of Lancaster's squads.

He did drop Danny Care though at a time when Care's form would have had him starting. I think there's room for cyncicism but I don't think it explains everything.

English Lurker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He did drop Danny Care though at a time when Care's form would have had him starting. I think there's room for cyncicism but I don't think it explains everything.

Personally, I find cynicism and a belief that sponsors' commercial input is incredibly highly valued absolutely consistent with Care's dropping. It was exactly the sort of incident the RFU did not need in the wake of the 2011 World Cup and exactly the sort of tabloid-grabbing headline sponsors don't want.

bilston

English Lurker wrote: »

Oh, he'll be back unless his injury problems get too much or he does something else stupid. England don't have enough centres of his calibre to hold a moral position for too long, sadly.

Besides, a man who keeps picking Hartley and Calum Clark can't be too interested in moral causes, hence my cynicism about sponsors.



Don't think Delon was ever named in any of Lancaster's squads.

Not sure myself but have Hartley and/or Clark misbehaved off the pitch? That would probably be the difference in Lancaster's eyes.

Podge_irl

bilston wrote: »

Not sure myself but have Hartley and/or Clark misbehaved off the pitch? That would probably be the difference in Lancaster's eyes.

No. Luckily for Clarke, as if he'd done what he did off the pitch he'd be in jail.

matthew8

Premiership finishes with 3 teams level on 68, Exeter missing out to Saracens and Leicester by points difference and by wins. Amazingly Leicester scored only 37 tries this season, compared to Exeter with 70, Saracens with 70, Bath with 72 and Northampton with 75 among the other top teams. Exeter and Wasps qualify for Europe.

bilston

Podge_irl wrote: »

No. Luckily for Clarke, as if he'd done what he did off the pitch he'd be in jail.

Well that's true, it was a despicable act but I suppose in Lancaster's eyes it was dealt with theough the usual disciplinary channels.

Stheno

Podge_irl wrote: »

No. Luckily for Clarke, as if he'd done what he did off the pitch he'd be in jail.

What did he do?

Buer

Stheno wrote:

What did he do?

Deliberately broke another player's arm. Most disgusting act I've seen on a pitch.

Stheno

Buer wrote: »

Deliberately broke another player's arm. Most disgusting act I've seen on a pitch.

Ah think I remember that he bent their elbow back and it broke? Think the video was on here recently, it was horrid

I'm rubbish at remembering names

The Lost Sheep

Stheno wrote: »

What did he do?

Deliberately broke a Leicester players arm in LV Cup final 3 years ago

Buer

Stheno wrote:

Ah think I remember that he bent their elbow back and it broke? Think the video was on here recently, it was horrid

Correct. Few years ago now. He got about 30 weeks which included the summer so missed about 18 games. Wasn't his first red card either.

At this point in time, he shouldn't be playing rugby, he should he looking forward to parole.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

Correct. Few years ago now. He got about 30 weeks which included the summer so missed about 18 games. Wasn't his first red card either.

At this point in time, he shouldn't be playing rugby, he should he looking forward to parole.

If it had been me as the victim, I would have taken a legal opinion on the chance of winning an assault charge. Reprehensible act.

English Lurker

bilston wrote: »

Not sure myself but have Hartley and/or Clark misbehaved off the pitch? That would probably be the difference in Lancaster's eyes.

Apart from Hartley's involvement in the "Kiss down under" harassment, not as far as I'm aware (and that was pre-Lancaster), so maybe that is the thing - but I am puzzled as to how it would make a difference for him. I'll be the first to say that there are things acceptable within the game that are not acceptable outside, but both Clark and Hartley have gone far beyond what is acceptable in the pro game. The only thing I can think of here is he thinks that a ban is punishment enough, but...

bilston wrote: »

Well that's true, it was a despicable act but I suppose in Lancaster's eyes it was dealt with theough the usual disciplinary channels.

I would find that a very, ah, interesting stance, given Clark's ban was shortened for a previously unblemished record, despite Clark having been red carded for a headbutt in the JWC final; however, the judiciary panel decided to discount that after Clark's representative said he was 17 and under-aged when it happened. I think most people will see the problem with that immediately.

And so, since everyone knows Clark did not receive the proper sanction he should have due to what is at best an accidental untruth, I don't see why it should be seen dealt with.


Of course, everyone has their own standards of judgement and there's no reason everyone should have mine. But I look at his decisions and they do seem rather inconsistent, to me at least, if they're meant to be the decisions of a man taking moral decisions. The Calum Clark one in particular boggles my mind and irritates me.

I apologise for getting everyone sidetracked on this!

PJ Maybe

PJ Maybe wrote: »

Agree with this, I remember him dropping Delon Armitage before when he was arrested for assault.

English Lurker wrote: »

Don't think Delon was ever named in any of Lancaster's squads.

Happened in January 2012 :

He [Lancaster] said: "We take issues surrounding the behaviour of England players very seriously and as such have decided to suspend Delon from the Saxons EPS [Elite Player Squad] pending the result of the police inquiry.
"We will then consider if further action is appropriate under the EPS code of conduct.

CatFromHue

matthew8 wrote: »

Premiership finishes with 3 teams level on 68, Exeter missing out to Saracens and Leicester by points difference and by wins. Amazingly Leicester scored only 37 tries this season, compared to Exeter with 70, Saracens with 70, Bath with 72 and Northampton with 75 among the other top teams. Exeter and Wasps qualify for Europe.

37 tries, that's amazing.

They only 39 too!

English Lurker

PJ Maybe wrote: »

Happened in January 2012 :

He [Lancaster] said: "We take issues surrounding the behaviour of England players very seriously and as such have decided to suspend Delon from the Saxons EPS [Elite Player Squad] pending the result of the police inquiry.
"We will then consider if further action is appropriate under the EPS code of conduct.

Ahh! Didn't even think to consider the Saxons, thanks for reminding me.

.ak

Haha, love it.

http://gfycat.com/WastefulHalfBarnacle#

shuffol

.ak wrote: »

Haha, love it.

http://gfycat.com/WastefulHalfBarnacle#

That has made my day, Scott Williams is such a beast of a player. Reminds me of this beauty from a few years back.

https://youtu.be/03gpzFZadcQ

CatFromHue

.ak wrote: »

Haha, love it.

http://gfycat.com/WastefulHalfBarnacle#

They lost by 4 points in the end!!

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Haha, love it.

http://gfycat.com/WastefulHalfBarnacle#

Next time, just ground the ****ing ball!

Grandpa Hassan

Anyone watching the sevens? It's great entertainment, but some of the passes are so far forward it is ridiculous. And the ref never blows. Is there a sevens rule I have never great of that says if the guy you are passing to is behind the passer at the point of the pass, then forward momentum does not matter? Nearly every long pass made on the run drifts 5 or 6 feet forward from the point the pass is made

sydthebeat

15 m pass could easily drift 2m forward if the passer is at full belt, which sevens players usually are.

Grandpa Hassan

sydthebeat wrote: »

15 m pass could easily drift 2m forward if the passer is at full belt, which sevens players usually are.

It's never blown. Just an accepted part if the game I guess. A lot of the pop up passes are blatantly forward too. I guess the ref just decides whether the pass is talking the p*ss. As someone who doesn't watch the 7 aside game much, it detracts a little from it for me

sydneybound

USA into the final of the London 7's after smashing England in the semi-final. Reckon this team are really coming of age some great athletes among the squad.

CatFromHue

I've no interest in Sevens either

Hagz

I'm not really seeing these forward passes personally.

irishbucsfan

I think 7s are our best bet of breaking the game into the US market. I don't think they'll get on board with the 15s game but if they start winning at 7s I think we could see that take off. It's very digestible, it could be a hit at the world cup.

.ak

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Anyone watching the sevens? It's great entertainment, but some of the passes are so far forward it is ridiculous. And the ref never blows. Is there a sevens rule I have never great of that says if the guy you are passing to is behind the passer at the point of the pass, then forward momentum does not matter? Nearly every long pass made on the run drifts 5 or 6 feet forward from the point the pass is made

That's the same rule in 15s. Momentum doesn't matter. So long as the pass is thrown backwards.

Swiwi.

Look at those Fijians waving the NZ flag. Oh wait, it is the Fijian flag.

Don't watch much 7s myself, but I'll watch the Yanks take on the Aussies in the final, since it's streaming in HD from world rugby's website. Nice.

Podge_irl

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

It's never blown. Just an accepted part if the game I guess.

It's not blown because it's an accepted part of the game in the laws. The ball has to be passed backwards with respect to the passer but it can ultimately end up travelling forwards.

Kiwi_knock

USA looking good so far

Stev_o

Some very slick hands by the US team. I think it's easier to get players to express themselves in 7's then it is in 15's.

sydneybound

What a win for the US. This will be huge for them, winning the London 7s is some achievement. Although I don't want to begrudge Fiji I'd love to see the US get gold in Rio, would do wonders for the sport.

Stheno

Is sevens rugby just the backs essentially?

.ak

Stheno wrote: »

Is sevens rugby just the backs essentially?

Basically but there is set pieces.

RobbieRuns

Stheno wrote: »

Is sevens rugby just the backs essentially?

If you mean is it just played by backs, the answer is no. The best sevens players are primarily back row forwards. Strong powerful runners who can break through tackles. The All Blacks have had lots of big mobile second row forwards in their team over the years. Not really lots of props play but some hookers do. Of course it is the speedsters in the backs who you want to get the ball to (it is seven-a-side on a full pitch) in lots of space. There are three man scrums and line outs as well, so if you mean is it only played by backs...... No

The one thing that you do need to be is fit !

The Lost Sheep

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Anyone watching the sevens? It's great entertainment, but some of the passes are so far forward it is ridiculous. And the ref never blows. Is there a sevens rule I have never great of that says if the guy you are passing to is behind the passer at the point of the pass, then forward momentum does not matter? Nearly every long pass made on the run drifts 5 or 6 feet forward from the point the pass is made

There is a good number of forwards not called but its part of keeping game going. Wouldnt agree with 5/6 feet forward being not called most of the time but some are let go.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think 7s are our best bet of breaking the game into the US market. I don't think they'll get on board with the 15s game but if they start winning at 7s I think we could see that take off. It's very digestible, it could be a hit at the world cup.

Disagree and having refereed a few US sides 15s is really catching on and will even more now the US is playing Aus/NZ and getting more high profile games at home on major stations.
15s is getting into more and more schools and educational programs and the number of clubs playing is always on the up

Stheno wrote: »

Is sevens rugby just the backs essentially?

Not at all. You will see quite a few back rows playing as well.

RobbieRuns wrote: »

The one thing that you do need to be is fit!

Agreed with all but this. The skill levels have to be that considerable bit higher as well or you'll suffer

Clearlier

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Agreed with all but this. The skill levels have to be that considerable bit higher as well or you'll suffer

Tactically it's a completely different game and it does take a bit of getting used to I think. By and large you want to avoid contact which can be a huge mindset change for a lot of players. The other thing is that notwithstanding the legend that is Serevi it's much harder to hide a poor tackler in the 7's game than in 15's.

molloyjh

Quins confirmed the signing of Jamie Roberts this morning.

irishbucsfan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Disagree and having refereed a few US sides 15s is really catching on and will even more now the US is playing Aus/NZ and getting more high profile games at home on major stations.
15s is getting into more and more schools and educational programs and the number of clubs playing is always on the up
Not at all. You will see quite a few back rows playing as well.

Agreed with all but this. The skill levels have to be that considerable bit higher as well or you'll suffer

There's a cereal extent to which getting into schools is great but also another extent to which it fails to represent adoption in the states, an example of that was soccer in the pre-beckham era, where it was played in incredible numbers among the youth but had basically no traction among the adult population. The trick is finding a structure that will be accessible and that can compete in the pretty saturated American sports market.

I have alays wished they would try an interstate representational championship which is unique, attractive to Americans as a concept, allows for union-controlled centrally funded teams and would have huge room for growth.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Quins confirmed the signing of Jamie Roberts this morning.

I'm sure Racing are delighted to get him off the books.

Grandpa Hassan

molloyjh wrote: »

Quins confirmed the signing of Jamie Roberts this morning.

Oh, super. Now I have to see his punchable face while I am watching the premiership

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The trick is finding a structure that will be accessible and that can compete in the pretty saturated American sports market.

There are what, 20 pro football teams for 300 million spectators? I can't get over how there aren't more contact sport options in the US.

aimee1

pickarooney wrote: »

There are what, 20 pro football teams for 300 million spectators? I can't get over how there aren't more contact sport options in the US.

I think there is 32 teams in the NFL

Add in ice hockey, basketball, baseball and the growing popularity of 'soccer'.

pickarooney

aimee1 wrote: »

I think there is 32 teams in the NFL

Add in ice hockey, basketball, baseball and the growing popularity of 'soccer'.

But what do they watch when the Superbowl is over and the want to see big lads running into one another? And there are lots of places with no NFL team within thousands of miles. It seems bizarre that there's no second/third division or regional/state AF competitions. Although maybe there are and they're just not well known outside of the states.

total former

pickarooney wrote: »

But what do they watch when the Superbowl is over and the want to see big lads running into one another? And there are lots of places with no NFL team within thousands of miles. It seems bizarre that there's no second/third division or regional/state AF competitions. Although maybe there are and they're just not well known outside of the states.

There is college football. It's just enormous in terms of crowds and TV audiences, the numbers are phenomenal.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

But what do they watch when the Superbowl is over and the want to see big lads running into one another? And there are lots of places with no NFL team within thousands of miles. It seems bizarre that there's no second/third division or regional/state AF competitions. Although maybe there are and they're just not well known outside of the states.

Ice hockey, basketball baseball or soccer. There are always sports going on in major cities. At the moment it's the NBA playoffs for example. Stanley Cup is around now as well. Baseball and soccer then carries through to autumn and football starts up again in August/September

aimee1

pickarooney wrote: »

But what do they watch when the Superbowl is over and the want to see big lads running into one another? And there are lots of places with no NFL team within thousands of miles. It seems bizarre that there's no second/third division or regional/state AF competitions. Although maybe there are and they're just not well known outside of the states.

ive two cousins who attend college in america, one competes for ireland in athletics, and she was going to college football games with 50000 ppl present for pre season games.

Grandpa Hassan

aimee1 wrote: »

ive two cousins who attend college in america, one competes for ireland in athletics, and she was going to college football games with 50000 ppl present for pre season games.

There are 8 college stadiums with capacity more than 100,000. And a load between 80 and 100. It is incredible

Buer

pickarooney wrote:

There are what, 20 pro football teams for 300 million spectators? I can't get over how there aren't more contact sport options in the US.

College football dwarves the NFL in terms of attendances every week.

Collegiate sports are massive over there and are professional in all but name.