General Rugby Discussion

matthew8 · 31-05-2015 6:48pm

Last second drop goal wins it for Bordeaux! Excellent from Bernard, brilliant composure to kick to touch with 10 seconds left without asking about time (and it would have run out if he had waited to ask) and to take the drop with advantage.

sydneybound · 31-05-2015 7:02pm

Fiji would bite your arm off for Nathan Hughes. He was one of the best (if not the best) forwards in the prem this year.

I was listening to Full Contact (Brian Moore's radio show) last week and the shows guest Conor O'Shea took great umbrage about the Hughes situation. Hughes stated in the press he'll be going for Fiji in the WC and will be cheering for them against England, the team he's waiting to represent! For a player of his calibre not playing in the WC for a side which could really use him is a crime. He left Fiji at 18 so is born and bred there, I know it all boils down to money but standing to God save the queen will be a bittersweet feeling. World rugby need to find a way of helping islanders finance players during international windows to encourage their ongoing participation with the national squad.

sydneybound · 31-05-2015 7:03pm

Delighted for Bordeaux hope they get an Irish team in the pool, that'll be a great weekend away!

English Lurker · 31-05-2015 8:17pm

sydneybound wrote: »

Fiji would bite your arm off for Nathan Hughes. He was one of the best (if not the best) forwards in the prem this year.

I was listening to Full Contact (Brian Moore's radio show) last week and the shows guest Conor O'Shea took great umbrage about the Hughes situation. Hughes stated in the press he'll be going for Fiji in the WC and will be cheering for them against England, the team he's waiting to represent! For a player of his calibre not playing in the WC for a side which could really use him is a crime. He left Fiji at 18 so is born and bred there, I know it all boils down to money but standing to God save the queen will be a bittersweet feeling. World rugby need to find a way of helping islanders finance players during international windows to encourage their ongoing participation with the national squad.

Aye, I know about the Nathan Hughes situation. I'd have been fairly pleased if Lancaster had publicly said "I'm sorry, but you're not English and I don't believe you intend to be, so you will not be picked". I'd love it if the rules were adjusted to make him wait longer and I know Fiji would love it if he played for them.

But I stand by my point - if Nathan Hughes couldn't play for England, his international career would mainly consist of notes from his club saying "One of the props ate Nathan's international kit again, may he please be excused touring p.s. We've forgot, which country are you again?" and that helps no one. I don't want him playing for England. I just don't think there should be any illusions about what the outcome would be.

pickarooney · 31-05-2015 10:10pm

Sure Lancaster basically dropped Hartley cause he's a Kiwi. It's all over Twitter.

postitnote · 01-06-2015 7:05am

World Rugby is monitoring recent disciplinary cases in Ireland and France before this year's World Cup.

Ireland's Jack McGrath and Ian Madigan and France's Yoann Huget have all escaped citings for recent incidents.
However the sport's governing body told BBC Sport: "World Rugby is keeping an interested eye on the application of the disciplinary process."

I certainly think something isn't right with the citing process currently. No doubt Huget should have been cited for his outrageous and frankly criminal stamp to a player's face.

There was nothing much to Madigan's incident but surely McGrath's, who was yellow carded at the time, should have been cited?

Funny thing is, I hope Huget is retrospectively banned by World Rugby but hope that McGrath gets off. There's bias and hypocrisy for you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32953649

01-06-2015 7:07am

postitnote wrote: »

I certainly think something isn't right with the citing process currently. No doubt Huget should have been cited for his outrageous and frankly criminal stamp to a player's face.

There was nothing much to Madigan's incident but surely McGrath's, who was yellow carded at the time, should have been cited?

Funny thing is, I hope Huget is retrospectively banned by World Rugby but hope that McGrath gets off. There's bias and hypocracy for you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32953649

Huget and to a lesser extent McGrath getting off was totally ridiculous. The citing commissioner involved in the McGrath incident simply needs to be stood down, he's the same guy who chose not to cite POC for the Dave Kearney incident. Or else he shouldn't be allowed rule on games involving Irish players because it doesn't look like he's impartial.

01-06-2015 7:52am

Huget should have seen 8 weeks +
McGrath 4+
Farrell meh ~ 2
Madigan nothing.

Buer mentioned the ridiculous situation where there is zero independence when it comes to the citing commissioner. In McGrath's case it was an IRFU employee ffs!

bilston · 01-06-2015 7:52am

Gloria Whispering Smallpox wrote: »

Huget and to a lesser extent McGrath getting off was totally ridiculous. The citing commissioner involved in the McGrath incident simply needs to be stood down, he's the same guy who chose not to cite POC for the Dave Kearney incident. Or else he shouldn't be allowed rule on games involving Irish players because it doesn't look like he's impartial.

From an Irish POV I'm obviously pleased McGrath hasn't been banned, but when I think of some of the citings and bans served out in other games this season (and yes I'm thinking of Ulster) the inconsistency sticks in the craw a wee bit.

The Huget one is an absolute disgrace. I didn't realise he wasn't cited.

total former · 01-06-2015 8:01am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Huget should have seen 8 weeks +
McGrath 4+
Farrell meh ~ 2
Madigan nothing.

Buer mentioned the ridiculous situation where there is zero independence when it comes to the citing commissioner. In McGrath's case it was an IRFU employee ffs!

The citing commissioner and disciplinary committee are appointed by the organisers of the game; be it Pro12, EPCR, etc.

Who would have done it for the Barbarians game? And why would teams expose themselves to the risk of losing players over an exhibition game?

01-06-2015 8:13am

total former wrote: »

The citing commissioner and disciplinary committee are appointed by the organisers of the game; be it Pro12, EPCR, etc.

Who would have done it for the Barbarians game? And why would teams expose themselves to the risk of losing players over an exhibition game?

As Buer said, there needs to be an independent committee. World Rugby / IRB could easily facilitate, and may well be forced to in order to bring the citings into some form of alignment.

Each and every league etc has been guilty of "one rule for X, another for another".

Of course, it could be simple enough to ask that the TMO is an IRB approved referee, and extend the powers of the citing officer to the TMO.

total former · 01-06-2015 8:38am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As Buer said, there needs to be an independent committee. World Rugby / IRB could easily facilitate, and may well be forced to in order to bring the citings into some form of alignment.

Each and every league etc has been guilty of "one rule for X, another for another".

World Rugby doesn't have the resources for that, not in a million years. They can't be forced to do so either because that would require the unions to vote in favour of bringing in the very situation they're trying to avoid.

I don't think it's that much of an issue tbh. The Huget one was pretty bad but overall I think it works alright.

01-06-2015 8:42am

total former wrote: »

World Rugby doesn't have the resources for that, not in a million years. They can't be forced to do so either because that would require the unions to vote in favour of bringing in the very situation they're trying to avoid.

I don't think it's that much of an issue tbh. The Huget one was pretty bad but overall I think it works alright.

They don't have the resources to train & approve more referees?
Of course they do!

And by forced, I mean by media pressure and just general bad PR that things like Huget's 'missed citing' bring on the game.

total former · 01-06-2015 8:50am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They don't have the resources to train & approve more referees?
Of course they do!

And by forced, I mean by media pressure and just general bad PR that things like Huget's 'missed citing' bring on the game.

They don't have the resources to appoint independent citing commissioners to every game all over the world, that's the bit I was replying to.

01-06-2015 8:56am

total former wrote: »

They don't have the resources to appoint independent citing commissioners to every game all over the world, that's the bit I was replying to.

Except I never once said that...

I said that TMOs could be replaced with independent referees, who act as citing commissioners as well as TMO.

total former · 01-06-2015 9:16am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except I never once said that...

I said that TMOs could be replaced with independent referees, who act as citing commissioners as well as TMO.

Then what did you mean by an "independent committee" that World Rugby would facilitate? Maybe I misunderstood.

But your other suggestion of a World Rugby-appointed TMO just isn't workable either. The unions train and appoint the refs, that's just how it is, and the problem simply isn't big enough to justify the enormous resources it would require to change it as you suggest.

Even if we did; you're still relying on humans to spot and judge the offences and you're still going to have human fans interpreting their decisions based on their own agendas. That's the fundamental issue.

Imagine it's two weeks before the World Cup. New Zealand's star player hits an opponent with a high tackle. Boards.ie explodes, demanding a suspension. TMO/citing commissioner says no case to answer. Would we all say "well, the system works, fair enough"? Or would we all say "typical IRB, always looking after the big guys, if that was a Samoan he'd be banned"? 100% the latter.

The system isn't perfect but it's improved vastly in recent years.

01-06-2015 9:17am

Sorry, I did say independent committing, instead of officer. The leagues would still have power of the sanctions through the committees already in situ.

It's Monday, and it's early.

Also, the aul appeal to tradition isn't worthwhile there. There's workable solutions to the inherent bias of the citing commissioners, that "it's not an issue most of the time" isn't really good enough is it?

total former · 01-06-2015 9:26am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry, I did say independent committing, instead of officer. The leagues would still have power of the sanctions.

It's Monday, and it's early.

Get yourself some kids. I've been up for about five hours at this point. You can have mine if you want.

Also, the aul appeal to tradition isn't worthwhile there. There's workable solutions to the inherent bias of the citing commissioners, that "it's not an issue most of the time" isn't really good enough is it?

I'm not appealing to tradition, I'm more just saying that the system has a huge amount of inertia, and there simply isn't the will to overcome it.

01-06-2015 9:37am

I've been at my desk since 7. I'm up hours too. Doesn't mean I'm properly functional!

And the inertia is easily bought. As in, bad publicity isn't good for the cash side of the game.

irishbucsfan · 01-06-2015 10:30am

If Barbarians games were forced to use an indendent citing commissioner it would be the end of Barbarians rugby. That game would never have been agreed to in a million years.

thomond2006 · 01-06-2015 10:41am

Strettle to Clermont, 3 year deal: http://www.asm-rugby.com/actus/david-strettle-s%E2%80%99engage-pour-3-saisons-avec-l%E2%80%99asm

He turns 32 in July so that's a brilliant deal for him!

aimee1 · 01-06-2015 11:37am

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_52847,00.html

Wales squad for training camps announced

jacothelad · 01-06-2015 12:26pm

bilston wrote: »

From an Irish POV I'm obviously pleased McGrath hasn't been banned, but when I think of some of the citings and bans served out in other games this season (and yes I'm thinking of Ulster) the inconsistency sticks in the craw a wee bit.

The Huget one is an absolute disgrace. I didn't realise he wasn't cited.

In Luke Marshall's case, Ben Whitehouse's report and evidence clearly stated that Marshall hit the Llanelli player entirely by accident and partly as a consequence of his instructions to get onside. His report was completely ignored. Marshall got a 5 week ban. Quite ludicrous. The same 'judicial' committee have other questions that need answering as to their lack of impartiality.

Huget should be dealt with by the French R.U. Hesimply cannot be allowed to get away with what he did.

total former wrote: »

The citing commissioner and disciplinary committee are appointed by the organisers of the game; be it Pro12, EPCR, etc.

Who would have done it for the Barbarians game? And why would teams expose themselves to the risk of losing players over an exhibition game?

What we needed at the Barbarians game was a C.C. who actually had the best interests of the game at heart, was honest in his appraisal of events and was impartial.

As to "why would teams expose themselves to the risk of losing players over an exhibition game?", they are professional players who get paid to play. By the same philosophy, why would clubs not weasel out of releasing players for 'friendly' internationals? That is not a reason to refuse to police the sport at the highest level.

irishbucsfan · 01-06-2015 12:44pm

jacothelad wrote: »

As to "why would teams expose themselves to the risk of losing players over an exhibition game?", they are professional players who get paid to play. By the same philosophy, why would clubs not weasel out of releasing players for 'friendly' internationals? That is not a reason to refuse to police the sport at the highest level.

Because the clubs are required to release players for international games during the international windows specified by World Rugby. The Barbarians wouldn't have a hope of getting a game 4 "weeks" away from the World Cup if there was an independent citing commissioner.

total former · 01-06-2015 1:05pm

jacothelad wrote: »

What we needed at the Barbarians game was a C.C. who actually had the best interests of the game at heart, was honest in his appraisal of events and was impartial.

I don't disagree with that, I was just pointing out the reasons why such a system is difficult/impossible.

jacothelad · 01-06-2015 2:47pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Because the clubs are required to release players for international games during the international windows specified by World Rugby. The Barbarians wouldn't have a hope of getting a game 4 "weeks" away from the World Cup if there was an independent citing commissioner.

I know the regs, that's why I put in the 'weasel' out part. Declaring players unfit etc to get them out of meaningless international games. No difference. If World Rugby are going to sanction high level demo. games then they need to ensure that all the officials are going to do their job. The citing official at Thomond singularly failed here as he did with the POC incident. I wonder why?

mfceiling · 02-06-2015 7:31am

Cipriani arrested this morning for drink driving after crashing his merc!!

At this rate Lancaster will have no one left to call up...

aimee1 · 02-06-2015 7:47am

mfceiling wrote: »

Cipriani arrested this morning for drink driving after crashing his merc!!

At this rate Lancaster will have no one left to call up...

He might have to take a few lads out of retirement.

bilston · 02-06-2015 7:54am

mfceiling wrote: »

Cipriani arrested this morning for drink driving after crashing his merc!!

At this rate Lancaster will have no one left to call up...

I have no sympathy. What a bloody muppet! Just when you think someone has learnt their lesson...

02-06-2015 9:13am

sigh

How many chances?

RobbieRuns · 02-06-2015 9:15am

He was on the mobile to Dylan Hartley at the time !

aimee1 · 02-06-2015 9:18am

RobbieRuns wrote: »

He was on the mobile to Dylan Hartley at the time !

Looking for tuilagi's number off dylan

sydthebeat · 02-06-2015 9:20am

If he isn't officially charged with dd by the time Lancaster has to name his squad, he'll travel.

Such a tit though

02-06-2015 10:21am

aimee1 wrote: »

Looking for tuilagi's number off dylan

While Andy Powell filmed the whole thing from his golf buggy...

thomond2006 · 02-06-2015 10:33am

The raid on Bayonne has begun. Toulon have signed Etrillard and Ollivon, two of their star young players.

The Bayonne-Biarritz merger seems to be back on the table too.

total former · 02-06-2015 10:35am

Biarritz have been having trouble paying their players; the merger might be their only way to survive.

thomond2006 · 02-06-2015 10:37am

total former wrote: »

Biarritz have been having trouble paying their players; the merger might be their only way to survive.

It's been reported that funding from the principal backers of both clubs will cease if there is no merger. So there will be a merger or there will be no Basque team at all.

02-06-2015 10:45am

thomond2006 wrote: »

The raid on Bayonne has begun. Toulon have signed Etrillard and Ollivon, two of their star young players.

The Bayonne-Biarritz merger seems to be back on the table too.

Toulon, signing French Men?

Sacré bleu!

sydthebeat · 02-06-2015 10:56am

If he isn't officially charged with dd by the time Lancaster has to name his squad, he'll travel.

Such a tit though

errlloyd · 02-06-2015 11:12am

Quade Cooper is trying to get out of his Toulon move according to Ultimate Rugby.

The Du Plessie brothers are trying to get out of moving to Montpellier because they don't want to play for Jake White again.

thomond2006 · 02-06-2015 11:18am

Montpellier are becoming a bit of a basket case.

They re-signed Nagusa until 2018 in February under Jake White's watch and now they sent him a letter informing him he is being let go.

molloyjh · 02-06-2015 11:56am

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's been reported that funding from the principal backers of both clubs will cease if there is no merger. So there will be a merger or there will be no Basque team at all.

Don't Biarritz and Bayonne absolutely hate each other though? Was in a cafe/bar in Bayonne in October and they had the T14 and D2 tables up on the wall. Biarritz was deliberately omitted. They just refused to acknowledge their existence. How could that possibly work in that case?

thomond2006 · 02-06-2015 11:58am

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't Biarritz and Bayonne absolutely hate each other though? Was in a cafe/bar in Bayonne in October and they had the T14 and D2 tables up on the wall. Biarritz was deliberately omitted. They just refused to acknowledge their existence. How could that possibly work in that case?

Well, yeah, the fans aren't exactly thrilled.

sydneybound · 02-06-2015 1:21pm

Imagine Celtic and Rangers merging... a lesser degree here but the fans will never get on.

Larbre34 · 02-06-2015 1:30pm

sydneybound wrote: »

Imagine Celtic and Rangers merging... a lesser degree here but the fans will never get on.

Down in the Valleys the same would have been said about Neath and Swansea, and look how well that turned out!

Wang King · 02-06-2015 3:18pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Quade Cooper is trying to get out of his Toulon move according to Ultimate Rugby.

The Du Plessie brothers are trying to get out of moving to Montpellier because they don't want to play for Jake White again.

Why is Cooper trying to get out of his move do we know?

aimee1 · 02-06-2015 3:20pm

Wang King wrote: »

Why is Cooper trying to get out of his move do we know?

Doesnt like POC.

bilston · 02-06-2015 3:26pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Montpellier are becoming a bit of a basket case.

They re-signed Nagusa until 2018 in February under Jake White's watch and now they sent him a letter informing him he is being let go.

Really, that is pretty shabby.

How has Nagusa been doing down in Montpellier? I always liked him at Ulster. It didn't happen all that often but there were moments when you thought he was unstoppable in the way he would run onto the ball from deep and destroy defences.

bilston · 02-06-2015 3:28pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Down in the Valleys the same would have been said about Neath and Swansea, and look how well that turned out!

Has it worked though? Or at least has it been as good as it could be? They are the strongest Welsh region but to be honest apart from a tqo or three year perod they have never threatened the best in Europe.

To be fair Swansea City's emergence has probably hurt the Ospreys.

.ak · 02-06-2015 3:31pm

aimee1 wrote: »

Doesnt like POC.

Actually, POC is being signed as an outhalf.

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