General Rugby Discussion

total former · 09-07-2015 12:19pm

b.gud wrote: »

What's a JIFF player?

Joueur issu d'un filiere de formation, i.e. a player who came through the academy of a French club.

French clubs must have a quota of 55% of their match-day 23 as JIFFs for the top 14.

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 1:24pm

That makes a goalkicking 9 or 10 like Hart very valuable to the squad.

b.gud · 09-07-2015 1:29pm

total former wrote: »

Joueur issu d'un filiere de formation, i.e. a player who came through the academy of a French club.

French clubs must have a quota of 55% of their match-day 23 as JIFFs for the top 14.

Surely Toulon are nowhere near that % on any given match day.

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 1:31pm

b.gud wrote: »

Surely Toulon are nowhere near that % on any given match day.

They are. It's just many of those players aren't French. The Armitage brothers are JIFF for example. Nakatiaci from Clermont is JIFF.

Teferi · 09-07-2015 1:49pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

Can't speak for others, but I sort of browse the General Rugby Discussion thread for interesting anecdotes or tidbits from around the rugby world, generally unrelated to Irish rugby.

So far this week we have had the whole Pro 12 funding debate, and now the fringe Irish scrumhalves debate.

I'm being grumpy, I know, but can the appropriate threads please be used for the appropriate discussions??

How's the Swiss rugby scene looking?

Clearlier · 09-07-2015 1:54pm

Teferi wrote: »

How's the Swiss rugby scene looking?

Good question. I played for a year with Fribourg while on Erasmus around the turn of the century. Have you taken any interest in the local league Swiwi? Very much dominated by the French speaking part of Switzerland although Zurich had a relatively decent team albeit that there weren't many Swiss and the language that they spoke on the pitch was English.

Swiwi. · 09-07-2015 2:31pm

Teferi wrote: »

How's the Swiss rugby scene looking?

Clearlier wrote: »

Good question. I played for a year with Fribourg while on Erasmus around the turn of the century. Have you taken any interest in the local league Swiwi? Very much dominated by the French speaking part of Switzerland although Zurich had a relatively decent team albeit that there weren't many Swiss and the language that they spoke on the pitch was English.

To my surprise there is a club about 10 to 15 minutes from where I live http://www.rcsierre.ch/. There is another club in the Valais Canton too.

I half thought about joining the Sierre club as their star Kiwi import, but lads I'm old and a bit fat these days, the years of glory seem (sadly) behind me.

They don't seem to do touch/tag rugby which would have been more my thing.

On a general level, I agree with Clearlier, seems to be a sport mostly in the French part of Switzerland, and my impression is that most of the players are from France originally. There is a Swiss national side http://www.suisserugby.com, they play in the European Nations Cup I think and next match looks like it's against the Czech Republic.

I have also found a Pizzeria locally where the owner is the former coach of the local team, and shows rugby on his screens. I haven't been there yet, but once the RWC kicks off, it might be good fun.

Clearlier · 09-07-2015 2:48pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

To my surprise there is a club about 10 to 15 minutes from where I live http://www.rcsierre.ch/. There is another club in the Valais Canton too.

I half thought about joining the Sierre club as their star Kiwi import, but lads I'm old and a bit fat these days, the years of glory seem (sadly) behind me.

They don't seem to do touch/tag rugby which would have been more my thing.

On a general level, I agree with Clearlier, seems to be a sport mostly in the French part of Switzerland, and my impression is that most of the players are from France originally. There is a Swiss national side http://www.suisserugby.com, they play in the European Nations Cup I think and next match looks like it's against the Czech Republic.

I have also found a Pizzeria locally where the owner is the former coach of the local team, and shows rugby on his screens. I haven't been there yet, but once the RWC kicks off, it might be good fun.

Not that far at all from Fribourg. They must have been in the other division the year I played though as I don't remember that team.

Unless things have changed dramatically since I was there I wouldn't be too worried about the standard being beyond you. There was plenty of enthusiasm but if you played in Ireland at all it was the equivalent of J4 level maybe J3 at a push and that was the first division.

English Lurker · 09-07-2015 5:59pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

To my surprise there is a club about 10 to 15 minutes from where I live http://www.rcsierre.ch/. There is another club in the Valais Canton too.

I half thought about joining the Sierre club as their star Kiwi import, but lads I'm old and a bit fat these days, the years of glory seem (sadly) behind me.

Are you actually Piri Weepu?

ouncer · 10-07-2015 1:35am

English Lurker wrote: »

Are you actually Piri Weepu?

ITV and BBC to broadcast 6nations until at least 2021. So games are on free to air and not only that but high definition free to air. Kudos to BBC and itv

Swiwi. · 10-07-2015 6:09am

It's waaaay too soon for a Lions thread, so GRD will do.

2017 British and Irish Lions Tour

3 June: v Provincial Union Team, Toll Stadium, Whangarei
7 June: v Blues, Eden Park, Auckland
10 June: v Crusaders, AMI Stadium, Christchurch
13 June: v Highlanders, Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
17 June: v Maori All Blacks, Rotorua International Stadium
20 June: v Chiefs, Waikato Stadium Hamilton
24 June: v All Blacks (1st test), Eden Park, Auckland
27 June: v Hurricanes, Westpac Stadium, Wellington
1 July: v All Blacks (2nd test), Westpac Stadium, Wellington
8 July: v All Blacks (3rd test), Eden Park, Auckland

No test match in the South Island, which was predictable with the current capacity of Chch's stadium (and the city infrastructure itself). Lions will have to win at least once at Eden Park.

10-07-2015 8:00am

Swiwi. wrote: »

It's waaaay too soon for a Lions thread, so GRD will do.

2017 British and Irish Lions Tour

3 June: v Provincial Union Team, Toll Stadium, Whangarei
7 June: v Blues, Eden Park, Auckland
10 June: v Crusaders, AMI Stadium, Christchurch
13 June: v Highlanders, Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
17 June: v Maori All Blacks, Rotorua International Stadium
20 June: v Chiefs, Waikato Stadium Hamilton
24 June: v All Blacks (1st test), Eden Park, Auckland
27 June: v Hurricanes, Westpac Stadium, Wellington
1 July: v All Blacks (2nd test), Westpac Stadium, Wellington
8 July: v All Blacks (3rd test), Eden Park, Auckland

No test match in the South Island, which was predictable with the current capacity of Chch's stadium (and the city infrastructure itself). Lions will have to win at least once at Eden Park.

Given there is shag all else to discuss - what would people's Lions test 23 be if they were picking it today?

total former · 10-07-2015 8:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Given there is shag all else to discuss - what would people's Lions test 23 be if they were picking it today?

Healy Best Cole
POC AWJ
Armitage Heaslip SOB
Webb Sexton
North Henshaw Davies Bowe
Hogg

Hartley, James, Lee, J Gray, Vunipola, Murray, Ford, L Williams

I'm including Hogg partly to have at least one Scot but I think he's going to have a massive year. Webb is just ahead of Murray on recent form. Had to shoehorn Armitage into 6 to accommodate SOB at 7.

Wang King · 10-07-2015 8:23am

Would think that neither Hartley nor Bowe have a realistic chance of going

total former · 10-07-2015 8:49am

Wang King wrote: »

Would think that neither Hartley nor Bowe have a realistic chance of going

Bowe will be 33 when it comes around, but if the squad was being picked today he'd go and he'd be in with a very good shout of playing the tests.

Hartley is still a great player in a position that is not well stocked at the moment.

.ak · 10-07-2015 8:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

Given there is shag all else to discuss - what would people's Lions test 23 be if they were picking it today?

I'd go with, on current form plus a little speculation....

Healy
Youngs
Cole
AWJ
Hendo
SOB
Warburton
Vunipola
Webb
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
Trimble
Halfpenny

Best
Vunipola
Lee
Gray
Strauss
Murray
Ford
Hogg

10-07-2015 9:15am

Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw

Swiwi. · 10-07-2015 9:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw
Henshaw

What about the bench?

10-07-2015 9:25am

Swiwi. wrote: »

What about the bench?

Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw Henshaw P.Wallace

10-07-2015 9:51am

Healy Best Cole
AWJ Lawes
Armitage SOB Vunipola (AKA the LOL Backrow)
Murray Sexton
North Henshaw Joseph Hogg
Kearney

Hartley McGrath Lee Henderson Heaslip Webb Forde Halfpenny

The above team is under the presumption that after we win the RWC Joe will coach the Lions hence the additional full backs and nod to players like McGrath who may not be best in position but know the routine and are there about's.

10-07-2015 9:53am

Deleted User wrote: »

Healy Best Cole
AWJ Lawes
Armitage SOB Vunipola (AKA the LOL Backrow)
Murray Sexton
North Henshaw Joseph Hogg
Kearney

Hartley McGrath Lee Henderson Heaslip Webb Forde Halfpenny

The above team is under the presumption that after we win the RWC Joe will coach the Lions hence the additional full backs and nod to players like McGrath who may not be best in position but know the routine and are there about's.

That would be a fun back row to watch.

10-07-2015 9:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

That would be a fun back row to watch.

I'm not sure it would work for us though as I never see Heaslip taking the ball on at great pace. He mostly seems to carry into contact to recycle so it's very possible you would see Heaslip start and Vuniploa on the bench which probably makes more sense.

razorblunt · 10-07-2015 11:00am

.ak wrote: »

I'd go with, on current form plus a little speculation....

Healy
Youngs
Cole
AWJ
Hendo
SOB
Warburton
Vunipola
Webb
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
Trimble
Halfpenny

Best
Vunipola
Lee
Gray
Strauss
Murray
Ford
Hogg

I presume that's Gray the younger as Richie has been absolutely woeful for 2 seasons now.

.ak · 10-07-2015 11:03am

razorblunt wrote: »

I presume that's Gray the younger as Richie has been absolutely woeful for 2 seasons now.

It is yeh. Johnny's just getting better and better. I'd also consider Lawes.

JPNelsforearm · 10-07-2015 4:33pm

Healy-Hartley-Cole(No standouts, Cole on the basis I havent kept up to speed on who the best scrummagers are atm)
Hendo-Lawes
6.SOB-8.Waldrom-7.Armitage
9.Webb
10.Sexton
11.Strettle
12.Henshaw
13.Hogg
14.Bowe
15.Abendanon

English Lurker · 10-07-2015 5:42pm

.ak wrote: »

It is yeh. Johnny's just getting better and better. I'd also consider Lawes.

He would be in my starting line-up and is in fact one of the first names to jump to my mind; if he can maintain his form from the 6N, I think he's going to end up being the best B&I lock of his generation.

And that's coming from someone with a well documented mancrush on Henderson and who could only love Launchbury more if I'd fathered him myself.

KingBrian2 · 10-07-2015 5:47pm

Looking forward to the World Cup this Autumn. Should be great.

Wang King · 10-07-2015 6:36pm

total former wrote: »

Bowe will be 33 when it comes around, but if the squad was being picked today he'd go and he'd be in with a very good shout of playing the tests.

Hartley is still a great player in a position that is not well stocked at the moment.

Hartley may not play internationally again under Lancaster, Bowe, while still a good player isn't Lions test standard anymore, maybe midweek team, but in 2 years time he won't even be in the reckoning

irishbucsfan · 10-07-2015 6:49pm

Wang King wrote: »

Hartley may not play internationally again under Lancaster, Bowe, while still a good player isn't Lions test standard anymore, maybe midweek team, but in 2 years time he won't even be in the reckoning

I don't really see anyone who would definitely be starting ahead of Bowe on the right wing to be honest, not like there's an enourmous amount of depth there in these countries.

Wang King · 10-07-2015 7:02pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't really see anyone who would definitely be starting ahead of Bowe on the right wing to be honest, not like there's an enourmous amount of depth there in these countries.

It's a debate for another year, nevermind another day, but it depends on who is the head coach. If Joe gets a tilt, maybe Bowe has a chance, if its Gatland, I'd say not a chance

irishbucsfan · 10-07-2015 7:10pm

Wang King wrote: »

It's a debate for another year, nevermind another day, but it depends on who is the head coach. If Joe gets a tilt, maybe Bowe has a chance, if its Gatland, I'd say not a chance

But if it was today who are the 14s available, Cuthbert? I think he's probably a decent shout but I think there's definitely a decision to be made between the two. Then there's Rokoduguni who could well be the ultimate answer. I don't think any of them are the obvious answer though (and it's not Tommy Seymour god bless him).

Wang King · 10-07-2015 7:18pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But if it was today who are the 14s available, Cuthbert? I think he's probably a decent shout but I think there's definitely a decision to be made between the two. Then there's Rokoduguni who could well be the ultimate answer. I don't think any of them are the obvious answer though (and it's not Tommy Seymour god bless him).

George North is a fave of Gatlands, so I'd say he's in pole position ?

b.gud · 10-07-2015 7:18pm

Wang King wrote: »

It's a debate for another year, nevermind another day, but it depends on who is the head coach. If Joe gets a tilt, maybe Bowe has a chance, if its Gatland, I'd say not a chance

Remember that Gatland dropped Cuthbert for Bowe the second that was Bowe was close to fit in the last Lions series. So I wouldn't say that Bowe wouldn't have a chance if he was coach

sydthebeat · 10-07-2015 9:16pm

Wang King wrote: »

George North is a fave of Gatlands, so I'd say he's in pole position ?

I really hope north will still be playing in two years time

Fireball07 · 11-07-2015 1:08am

Some super 2nd rows around at the moment.

We've got POC who did have a very impressive season imo and if I was picking the Lions team now, I'd definitely have him in there. AWJ still going very strong too. Jonny Gray is superb, as is Launchbury... and I wouldn't be a big fan of Lawes but he is a very effective rugby player. After that, you've got Toner too and we all know what he brings.

I'd probably pick:

Corbisiero Best Cole
POC Launchbury
Armitage Heaslip SOB
Murray Sexton
North Henshaw Joseph Watson
Halfpenny

Hartley McGrath Lee AWJ Warburton Webb Ford Earls

It feels wrong leaving out Healy, but I really haven't been overly impressed with him recently. In fairness, neither did Corbisiero but I like him as a player. Hopefully he'll be in top form next year. Hooker was tough to pick too, no real standouts. I'm a big fan of Watson too.

The only really biased pick was Earls at 23, I'd probably have selected Hogg otherwise.

JPNelsforearm · 11-07-2015 2:34pm

Corbs is second choice at Northampton , his game has gone to pot since he came back from injury, he was dire during Saints run in.

dregin · 11-07-2015 2:37pm

Would love to see Mike Brown at 15.

matthew8 · 11-07-2015 2:52pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Corbs is second choice at Northampton , his game has gone to pot since he came back from injury, he was dire during Saints run in.

Pretty much, living off his Lions tour for a good while now. England's lack of top looseheads keeping him in the spotlight. I'd take Jack McGrath and Healy over him.

shuffol · 11-07-2015 3:05pm

Jack Nowell would be a decent shout for a wing spot.

sydthebeat · 11-07-2015 3:20pm

Not exactly having lions teams suggested to fill you with confidence against the kiwis.

Hopefully some new names will come to the fore in the next 2 years.

b.gud · 11-07-2015 3:33pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Not exactly having lions teams suggested to fill you with confidence against the kiwis.

Hopefully some new names will come to the fore in the next 2 years.

Well once you put coached by Joe Schmidt after those it should be a good confidence boost.

11-07-2015 5:10pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Not exactly having lions teams suggested to fill you with confidence against the kiwis.

Hopefully some new names will come to the fore in the next 2 years.

Darragh Fanning. British and Irish Lion.

11-07-2015 5:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Darragh Fanning. British and Irish Lion.

World Lion.

bilston · 11-07-2015 8:29pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

Some super 2nd rows around at the moment.

We've got POC who did have a very impressive season imo and if I was picking the Lions team now, I'd definitely have him in there. AWJ still going very strong too. Jonny Gray is superb, as is Launchbury... and I wouldn't be a big fan of Lawes but he is a very effective rugby player. After that, you've got Toner too and we all know what he brings

AWJ would be one of the first names on my team sheet and the only reason he wouldn't be skipper is because I'd have POC beside him who would get that honour.

sydthebeat · 11-07-2015 9:16pm

Does any one here REALLY think that POC will be a lion in 2017?

bilston · 11-07-2015 9:18pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Does any one here REALLY think that POC will be a lion in 2017?

I was talking about a Lions team today with a second row of AWJ and POC but as far as 2017 is concerned it is unlikely. Mind you what age was Simon Shaw in 2009?

total former · 11-07-2015 9:47pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Does any one here REALLY think that POC will be a lion in 2017?

It's hard to see it happening really.

If it was this summer, definitely. Two years from now, very doubtful.

Podge_irl · 11-07-2015 10:28pm

POC will have retired before the next lions tour. Even if he hasn't he'll be two years from his last international game. Not gonna happen.

AWJ, Lawes, Launchbury, Henderson etc. we won't be short of top options.

Ford v sexton will be an interesting battle. If Schmidt actually is coach I can't see sexton not being the starting 10 but Ford is a super player.

CatFromHue · 11-07-2015 11:11pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Does any one here REALLY think that POC will be a lion in 2017?

He signed a 2 year contract with Toulon and will be 37 when the next tour comes around. Simon Shaw went to the 2011 RWC when he was 37 and was the sub second row for them.

Who know's to be honest as second rows do tend to go on longer.

Hines, Thorn, Matfield (he's 38 and still playing), and Shaw all went on to play well in their late 30's.

Fireball07 · 12-07-2015 2:55am

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Corbs is second choice at Northampton , his game has gone to pot since he came back from injury, he was dire during Saints run in.

I didn't watch much Premiership last season, that's fair enough. I suppose it was a bit hypocritical of me to drop Healy for lack of form and put in someone who was also injured. There isn't many other LHs of a high standard outside of those though, McGrath was probably the best of the lot really. I wouldn't be the biggest fan of Mako. Hopefully Healy can find his best form again, if he reaches it, he should be a shoo-in.

dregin wrote: »

Would love to see Mike Brown at 15.

Lot of competition for full-back spot, Brown wasn't quite at his best during the 6N. Still a class act though. But with Halfpenny, Kearney, Hogg all there too, he'd need to be at the top of his game. (Liam Williams, Nick Abendanon, Delon Armitage outside bets?)

shuffol wrote: »

Jack Nowell would be a decent shout for a wing spot.

Good player, but I prefer Watson tbh.

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