General Rugby Discussion

awec

pickarooney wrote: »

that's how I'd understand it, but I think I need pictures (no youtube at work, but I'll look at the video later, unless it's the one with the Italians where they simply tackled the ball carrier and turned it over on the ground.)

Refer to my excellent diagram.

Green is Ireland, red is some other team, purple dot is the ball.



1. Standard lineout
2. POC catches it and drops.
3. Irish team all bind, ball goes to back of the "huddle".

Everyone inside the orange box right now is obstructing the tackle.

1. There is no maul because the opposition did not bind.
2. A maul cannot be formed now by a player binding with POC or any other player in front of the ball, because the initial bind in a maul must involve the ball carrier.

The defending team (red) could run around and tackle the player with the ball at the back, but why would they do this when the attacking team have just gifted them a penalty.

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

Sure we (Ireland team) do it all the time. It sounds easy, but it's not, because what if the ref doesn't agree with you, or what if one of the players panics and engages, then the defence isn't set, or what if the team reads it and dishes the ball out to the backs? The defence will get caught flat footed. What if it's near the try line (which it often is) and doesn't work because of any of the above? You've just let a try in, unopposed.

or....

POC doesnt let the ball back so any player tackling him is fine, but full line out push is set already making it very hard to defend

pickarooney

OK, fair enough, the power of MS Paint is undeniable

It takes a few seconds to get the ball that far back in a maul though, more than enough time to cop that the opposition is not engaging... although the with the heads down and all the grunting and shouting and the reflexes kicking in I suppose it's plausible.

.ak

That's it... If you've ever been in a maul it can be quite disorientating, especially when you've your head and shoulders down to drive.

Which is why a lippy scrumhalf is key.

awec

It'd be easy not to notice they aren't engaging. Teams usually want the ball to the back very quickly to protect it.

Also remember the attacking team has to jump (and therefore at least 3 players involved in jumping / lifting) while the defending team doesn't. Defenders will probably already be set for a maul defence which will only encourage the attacking team to move it fast.

Also, it doesn't even have to get to the back. Once it has gone back once POC is already obstructing. Once he's handed it to someone else he'd have to move himself, and all this happens in a second or two.

pickarooney

Has anyone ever seen this done or knows how it would pan out...
Attacking team wins a penalty in the opponents' 22 and need a try to win.
Fly-half, taps and passes to the first of a pod of forwards who goes into contact upright and turns back. The rest of the pod, and eventually the rest of the pack, bind on and push for the line. Sort of anticipating the choke tackle.

.ak

pickarooney wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen this done or knows how it would pan out...
Attacking team wins a penalty in the opponents' 22 and need a try to win.
Fly-half, taps and passes to the first of a pod of forwards who goes into contact upright and turns back. The rest of the pod, and eventually the rest of the pack, bind on and push for the line. Sort of anticipating the choke tackle.

Yes, again that's actually a tactic Ireland have used recently. It's called setting up a maul in open play. Usually the carrier pivots into the tackle, offering the defender his 'back', holds himself up, the assist player binds onto the ball and player and drives forward, a maul ensues.

Think we tried it against Wales actually, but it didn't really work. But I've seen a fair few times use it quite often recently.

awec

Yea perfectly legal, but obviously you run the risk of being turned over if the maul collapses. It's more difficult to set a good maul in open play I think.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Only if POC has the ball I think. If POC has already passed it back then a maul can't form because as far as I know the initial bind has to involve the ball carrier.

If he's passed it back it would just be obstruction.

Yeah sorry you're right. The maul can only begin if POC is tackled before passing it back. However in the case of a line-out maul would that be called against the jumper if (in this case) Best peeled off as soon as he realised the opposition hadn't joined the maul? Similar to a player running his line, where else is POC meant to go?

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah sorry you're right. The maul can only begin if POC is tackled before passing it back. However in the case of a line-out maul would that be called against the jumper if (in this case) Best peeled off as soon as he realised the opposition hadn't joined the maul? Similar to a player running his line, where else is POC meant to go?

Best can peel off because there is no maul and therefore not maul rules and therefore he doesn't have to remain bound I think.

Usually there is a few seconds between a team forming their side of an attempted maul and the opposition going in to get the obstruction call, to defend it right the ball carrier would have to be told to peel off and pass it quickly (which is where I think the 9 is important).

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

OK, fair enough, the power of MS Paint is undeniable

It takes a few seconds to get the ball that far back in a maul though, more than enough time to cop that the opposition is not engaging... although the with the heads down and all the grunting and shouting and the reflexes kicking in I suppose it's plausible.

The attacking team rarely cop that the opposition aren't engaging in my experience. Everything is so scripted when it comes to tight play, especially at the lineout, that people are going through the motions without thinking of it, it's very physical of course so it's not easy to keep your wits about you. It works nearly every time at amateur level where the opposition haven't done much homework. If you've played the opposition before however it only works every time 60% of the time.

sydneybound

In what will be the biggest rugby development in Africa rugby in the last twenty years Namibia, Zimbabwe and Kenya will compete in next years expanded Currie Cup. The inclusion in the currie cup should give these countries a good grounding to build their domestic players to add to their overall international teams.

'There will be 18 teams in the Currie Cup next year including Namibia, Zimbabwe and Kenya. It will be a big boost for Namibian rugby and we will play eight home matches and seven away matches'

www.namibian.com.na/indexx.php?id=30082&page_type=story_detail#sthash.e8l7XOVt.dpuf

The Lost Sheep

sydneybound wrote: »

In what will be the biggest rugby development in Africa rugby in the last twenty years Namibia, Zimbabwe and Kenya will compete in next years expanded Currie Cup. The inclusion in the currie cup should give these countries a good grounding to build their domestic players to add to their overall international teams.

'There will be 18 teams in the Currie Cup next year including Namibia, Zimbabwe and Kenya. It will be a big boost for Namibian rugby and we will play eight home matches and seven away matches'

www.namibian.com.na/indexx.php?id=30082&page_type=story_detail#sthash.e8l7XOVt.dpuf

Will be especially interesting for Kenya. Their 7s have been going well and hopefully by playing in this it will help their development in the 15 man game.

Zimbabwe competed in the first two world cups. African spot for the world cup has went to Namibia for all world cups since then. would be great to see them challenge again
Zimbabwe (as Rhodesia) and Namibia (S.W. Africa) competed in Currie Cup before to a degree but good to see this.
Kenya, Zimbabwe and Namibia have each won African Cup once over last 3 years. Hopefully this will bring them and competition between the three on

pickarooney

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Will be especially interesting for Kenya. Their 7s have been going well and hopefully by playing in this it will help their development in the 15 man game.

Zimbabwe competed in the first two world cups. African spot for the world cup has went to Namibia for all world cups since then. would be great to see them challenge again
Zimbabwe (as Rhodesia) and Namibia (S.W. Africa) competed in Currie Cup before to a degree but good to see this.
Kenya, Zimbabwe and Namibia have each won African Cup once over last 3 years. Hopefully this will bring them and competition between the three on

Ivory Coast played at one of the earlier World Cups.

sydneybound

Also German rugby is experiencing an uplift in fortunes many due to the sevens game. Here's an interesting article...

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/05/how-sevens-olympic-status-gives-german-rugby-a-boost/

News hot off the press is that the 7's World Series is to be expanded to 12 events in 2016/17 and a stop in Munich during Octoberfest is highly likely. Sydney thinks Octoberfest and rugby is a winning combination.

Yeah_Right

pickarooney wrote: »

Ivory Coast played at one of the earlier World Cups.

1995 I think. One of their players broke his neck if I remember correctly.

The Pheasant2

I was just thinking to myself how much I'd love if rugby had an annual "All Stars" exhibition match ala basketball in which 2 teams composed of the world's best players went at it. Not sure where it'd fit into the calendar as it'd obviously need to be post-season for selection purposes...I wonder if it'd ever be possible...probably not!

Anyway at least I've something to ponder at work today - who I'd pick for each of the teams!

Clearlier

Yeah_Right wrote: »

1995 I think. One of their players broke his neck if I remember correctly.

Max Brito. There was real concern prior to the tournament about the Ivory Coast taking part.

The Lost Sheep

sydneybound wrote: »

Also German rugby is experiencing an uplift in fortunes many due to the sevens game. Here's an interesting article...

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/05/how-sevens-olympic-status-gives-german-rugby-a-boost/

News hot off the press is that the 7's World Series is to be expanded to 12 events in 2016/17 and a stop in Munich during Octoberfest is highly likely. Sydney thinks Octoberfest and rugby is a winning combination.

Saw their national side, more of an A team, play Connacht Eagles earlier in the year. They are hovering between top division and 1B of nations cup. But a place in 1A is quite attainable and while Georgia are very dominant at the top securing(and then keeping) a place in the top tier is well attainable

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I was just thinking to myself how much I'd love if rugby had an annual "All Stars" exhibition match ala basketball in which 2 teams composed of the world's best players went at it. Not sure where it'd fit into the calendar as it'd obviously need to be post-season for selection purposes...I wonder if it'd ever be possible...probably not!

Anyway at least I've something to ponder at work today - who I'd pick for each of the teams!

When/where do you play it? End of southern or northern hemisphere seasons? Would be interesting to see but probably not possible..

icdg

At this stage probably just a footnote in the annals of rugby history, but the Irish Times today reports that European Rugby Cup will go into liquidation this month, having fully handed over the running of the Champions Cup and European Challenge Cup to ECPR in Neuchâtel on 30th June.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/companies/final-whistle-for-ecrl-is-imminent-1.2309093

sydneybound

Clearlier wrote: »

Max Brito. There was real concern prior to the tournament about the Ivory Coast taking part.

Without stating the obvious but the concern was about these players getting badly hurt like poor Brito?

I remember reading a very good article about him in the times. After the accident his wife left him, he became distant with his kids and relies on the French state for benefits. In the time since he never said a bad word about rugby or its authorities. He's been invited to every World Cup final since his accident by world rugby. Poor fella makes you appreciate what you have.

I dragged it out but it's behind a paywall but maybe some on here subscribe to the times so could be of use http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/owenslot/article4457576.ece

sydneybound

Following up on the success of the women's team who successfully qualified for the Olympic games by winning the South America qualifications it appears rugby in Columbia is undergoing significant growth.

"While there were 3,772 youth or child rugby players in Colombia in 2012 the number had risen to 9,738 at the close of 2014. It also shows that of the 15,067 rugby players in the country a majority of 9,738 are young, thereby providing a future source of international players"

Full articule here: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2015/08/03/forward-thinking-vol-1-iss-8-colombias-spectacular-progress/

Maybe in twenty five years Germany will be beating England in Twickenham and Columbia push the All Blacks close in an extended Rugby Championships...

Clearlier

sydneybound wrote: »

Without stating the obvious but the concern was about these players getting badly hurt like poor Brito?

Yes particularly in scrums but it was mixed in with concern that they would be annihilated in all of their games and how that would reflect on the sport.

As it happens IIRC the incident was described as a freak accident than could have happened to anyone.

jacothelad

sydneybound wrote: »

Following up on the success of the women's team who successfully qualified for the Olympic games by winning the South America qualifications it appears rugby in Columbia is undergoing significant growth.

"While there were 3,772 youth or child rugby players in Colombia in 2012 the number had risen to 9,738 at the close of 2014. It also shows that of the 15,067 rugby players in the country a majority of 9,738 are young, thereby providing a future source of international players"
.

I wonder could they get sponsored by Coke? They'll have to be trained not to get white line fever....:D

pickarooney

Booo to lazy stereotypes

errlloyd

Cotter gets the same extension as Scmidt. I wonder are they planning a team expedition to the highest job in world rugby.

b.gud

errlloyd wrote: »

Cotter gets the same extension as Scmidt. I wonder are they planning a team expedition to the highest job in world rugby.

If they Are there should be a shift in the team dynamic of who is the head coach and who is the assistant

Podge_irl

errlloyd wrote: »

Cotter gets the same extension as Scmidt. I wonder are they planning a team expedition to the highest job in world rugby.

Short of Ireland (or Scotland :pac: ) winning the world cup the NZRU won't be interested.

AbusesToilets

A really good look at the current mess that is the scrum (posted on that bastion of civility and rational discourse that is Gwlad)

http://gwladrugby.com/?p=2230

Main points being the retreat by refs and WC from properly enforcing the existing laws re: straight feeds and early pushing, much to the detriment of the scrum and game as a whole.

sydthebeat

What sickens me is that at junior rugby level refs have no problem at all calling crooked feeds or early pushes. Two quite simple offenses to spot.

Crooked feeds kills me. Reddan could be pinged 95% of the time he feeds a scrum. It's easy to police, I can't understand why it's not called every time.

You'd find that scrum halfs would stop feeding crookedly very quickly if they were handing over possession each time as opposed to getting called once in a blue moon for it.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Crooked feeds kills me. Reddan could be pinged 95% of the time he feeds a scrum. It's easy to police, I can't understand why it's not called every time.

You'd find that scrum halfs would stop feeding crookedly very quickly if they were handing over possession each time as opposed to getting called once in a blue moon for it.

I wonder is there a directive to the referees on this matter to use their discretion and only penalise when it is repeated and absolutely blatant?

If they were to ping the scrum half every time he put the ball in at an angle, I honestly think we'd have multiple scrums where the ball just sat in the tunnel with neither team able to hook it properly before the whole thing collapsed.

pickarooney

Does the feed have to be straight-straight or just lineout-straight, i.e. anywhere along the channel ? If they could at least come to a compromise on the latter it would be better; still an advantage for the team putting in even if they're less powerful, hooker still has to hook and no feeding to the second row.

razorblunt

I'm still not over the last scrum in Cardiff in the 6 Nations.
Must crucial scrum of the tournament at that stage, more than likely last passage of play, Barnes openly advises Webb to feed straight. Bends down and watches him roll it into the 2nd row. The subsequent penalty for the Welsh only made it worse.

sydthebeat

castres mustnt have got the memo when we played them 2 season ago

funniest yellow carding ive ever seen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSPBE45iv3E

10:00 here, reserve SH comes on and put the first 3 (?) feeds in crooked

Buer

People may wonder what else Nathan Hughes could have done when he went for the ball and knocked George North out cold.

Well, children, how about this:

http://gfycat.com/SecondTenseGraysquirrel

.ak

I could watch that all day.

I hope he said "yoink!" as he stripped it.

Taco Corp

guy missed a try and gets a kick in the dick as well

sydneybound

Scots doing well financially... at last.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13175227.Record_profits__soaring_income__new_sponsors__Now_for_the_rugby______/

pickarooney

At training yesterday one of the lads introduced what he called 'Irish touch' where the goal of the defenders is to touch the ball rather than the man. Has anyone ever played or heard of this?

marc96

pickarooney wrote: »

At training yesterday one of the lads introduced what he called 'Irish touch' where the goal of the defenders is to touch the ball rather than the man. Has anyone ever played or heard of this?

Used to play that in primary school back in SA around 1989,good game

washman3

marc96 wrote: »

Used to play that in primary school back in SA around 1989,good game

Was it called 'Irish Touch' back then..:rolleyes:
Or is this just another Gerry Thornley buzzword....

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

At training yesterday one of the lads introduced what he called 'Irish touch' where the goal of the defenders is to touch the ball rather than the man. Has anyone ever played or heard of this?

I'm always looking for new games for youths. Can you describe the game?

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

I'm always looking for new games for youths. Can you describe the game?

Same as normal touch but rather than having to tap the ball-carrier with two hands you need to get one hand on the ball. Raising the ball above your shoulders is not allowed (ball to the other team) and after four players have been tagged possession switches over.

It seems like a minor difference but it makes you work on a lot of different aspects of the game, such as ball protection, body position in contact, offloading and handing off. For the defending team, it's not great for practising match conditions but you do tend to have to double-up on the carrier and 'tackle' high to prevent easy offloads.

One good thing is that 2nd rowers have an advantage they don't tend to have in normal touch (long arms)

razorblunt

sydneybound wrote: »

Scots doing well financially... at last.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13175227.Record_profits__soaring_income__new_sponsors__Now_for_the_rugby______/

Very well considering that factors in Scott Johnson's £250k a year salary too.

Residency Rule Review

Discussion begins

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Residency Rule Review

Discussion begins

*applauds*

Wang King

Bringing it down to 2 years

thomond2006

Wang King wrote: »

Bringing it down to 2 years

Get out.

CatFromHue

Wang King wrote: »

Bringing it down to 2 years

2 years?

I thought they were considering if you could put on the accent proper then that'd be enough.