General Rugby Discussion

OldRio

sydneybound wrote: »

Come on we both know what happened there, they stole someones athletics track and are hated by many in the local community.

Plus its only a 10,000 stadium, the locals will protest protest and protest if it is expanded anymore.

Not sure about stole. 10,000 is big enough for Sarries surely.

irishbucsfan

OldRio wrote: »

Not sure about stole. 10,000 is big enough for Sarries surely.

It's big enough if they have Wembley for derbies/europe.

Ricoh on the other hand is far bigger than anything Wasps are going to be able to muster.

OldRio

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's big enough if they have Wembley for derbies/europe.

Ricoh on the other hand is far bigger than anything Wasps are going to be able to muster.

Indeed

Sarries and Twickers and Europe are not a good match up. Last years semi final. 25,000.

molloyjh

Warriors aren't happy from the looks of it...

http://www.warriors.co.uk/news/7872.php#.VDVg4_ldVqU

CatFromHue

Can the RFU or PRL stop the move, it's a bit late now anyway to seek clarification too.

English Lurker

The Professional Game Board could have, I believe, which is made up of a mix of RFU and PRL reps, but I believe they've signed off on it. But I am hearing that part of the reason only match day operations are moving at the moment is that the Midlands clubs kicked off.

Just rumour and talk though, will be interesting to see what happens when the smoke clears.

sydneybound

Japan appear to have secured the final berth in the expanded Super Rugby competition in 2016 after agreeing to host matches in Singapore..... here is the link

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9509705,00.html

Hopefully this helps the game in Japan and Singapore.

On a side note will be interesting to see the Argentina club team, it will probably just be the Argentina national team which should help their Rugby Championship hopes.

Podge_irl

There is no game to speak of to help in Singapore...

It's a pretty odd situation to be in really. Though better than the previous mooted idea of an actual singaporean team.

Winters

The flight times are just mad. I recall a SH player remarking how seeing so many away fans at club games in Europe made it so special.

Yeah_Right

Help needed.

I'm going to be in Rome the weekend the All Blacks take on England. Never been there before, really looking forward it, the culture, the history, blahblahblahblah.

Does anyone know a good bar in the city centre that will be showing the game??

.ak

I usually go to the Abbey Theatre for rugby.

ssaye2

http://www.thescore.ie/top-14-tv-rights-historic-deal-1715127-Oct2014/

Yeah_Right

.ak wrote: »

I usually go to the Abbey Theatre for rugby.

You are a great man. My girlfriend will hate you but I thank you.

WTO

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You are a great man. My girlfriend will hate you but I thank you.

Just your luck they'll show the Aussie Wales game which is on the same time...

Winters

ssaye2 wrote: »

http://www.thescore.ie/top-14-tv-rights-historic-deal-1715127-Oct2014/

It surprises me from a legal point of view that the authorities allowed the new deal's terms to be applied for this season rather than using the old deal to continue for one year.

Yeah_Right

WTO wrote: »

Just your luck they'll show the Aussie Wales game which is on the same time...

In that case Rome will burn!

And don't even get me started on the stupidity of the schedule for the AIs where so many good games clash.

sydthebeat

Tickets for the Australia game came this morning, happy days!

More thoughts on Waspsgate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29533983

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29537402

Me : How is this not the establishment of a brand new club? That club appears to be allowed to skip several leagues in order to play premiership rugby directly. The concerns from the Coventry RFC chairman in the above article would be less worrying if 'Coventry' Wasps RFC were made to start from the bottom (as they should be imo).

"Rugby union has always been opposed to a franchise system. It's too tribal for that," said a Tigers representative.

sydneybound

Planet Rugby ran a pool yesterday and the losing 3 million a year option won hands down. I'm not saying a poll like this is that important but from an outsider looking in it just isn't sustainable for a club to stay in the Prem with such a little turnover and hardly any fans.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

More thoughts on Waspsgate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29533983

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29537402

Me : How is this not the establishment of a brand new club? That club appears to be allowed to skip several leagues in order to play premiership rugby directly. The concerns from the Coventry RFC chairman in the above article would be less worrying if 'Coventry' Wasps RFC were made to start from the bottom (as they should be imo).

Not that I agree with this, but I believe the reason it's not considered as a brand new club is because the RFU (and I would suppose this may be true of other unions as well, I'm not sure) seem to consider the club to be based where their training facility is, and this is going to continue to exist as is.

In this case they're not moving the training facility. I've read that because of this not only are they not considered a new club, but they're actually still considered a London based club! Clearly those are regulations that need to be changed, but I'd imagine that change would be too late to affect the Coventry Wasps.

However they do claim that they will consider moving this, not sure how things will stand at that stage...

irishbucsfan

sydneybound wrote: »

Planet Rugby ran a pool yesterday and the losing 3 million a year option won hands down. I'm not saying a poll like this is that important but from an outsider looking in it just isn't sustainable for a club to stay in the Prem with such a little turnover and hardly any fans.

How was their turnover relative to other Premiership clubs in 2007/2008? IE, when they were playing in Adams Park and they won the Heineken Cup? Or when they won the Premiership the next season?

It'd be interesting to see how it compared that season.

Winters

I remember reading an interview with the Llanelli Scarlets CEO at the time they moved into Parc Y Scarlets and they said their attendance break even was around the 7,000 number.

Wasps, with only 3,000 season ticket holders are small fry. I cant see many english professional rugby clubs being sustainable with the exception of Leicester, Northamption, Gloucester. Coincidences? They own their own grounds.

English Lurker

Winters wrote: »

I remember reading an interview with the Llanelli Scarlets CEO at the time they moved into Parc Y Scarlets and they said their attendance break even was around the 7,000 number.

Wasps, with only 3,000 season ticket holders are small fry. I cant see many english professional rugby clubs being sustainable with the exception of Leicester, Northamption, Gloucester. Coincidences? They own their own grounds.

I believe when Sarries moved into their new stadium they stated 10,000 as the number.

The average annual loss according to Brian Smith is £2m.

I believe that Quins are close to breaking even and I think Exeter are either close to, or do.

There is no question that owning your own ground and being able to draw revenue from it is huge for rugby clubs.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How was their turnover relative to other Premiership clubs in 2007/2008? IE, when they were playing in Adams Park and they won the Heineken Cup? Or when they won the Premiership the next season?

It'd be interesting to see how it compared that season.

Can't find their turnover then, but their average home attendance - albeit inflated by 'big' London matches - stood at 11,560 - http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=249 - throw in competition money and it must have been a fair bit bigger.

sydneybound

Samoa has announced a decent squad for the upcoming internationals

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10603238/Kiwi-talent-features-in-new-look-Samoan-squad

A lot of new players are declaring for Samoa not suprised with the World Cup only a year away.

Edit - I see Alofa Alofa is going to play for them, exciting stuff as he's been awesome for LaRochelle this year.

Hagz

Is there a specific thread that's discussing the Ireland Sevens team introduction?

Winters

Can't find their turnover then, but their average home attendance - albeit inflated by 'big' London matches - stood at 11,560 - http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=249 - throw in competition money and it must have been a fair bit bigger.

London Irish's average attendance in Reading last season was 9,242. Buoyed significantly by their St. Patricks day attendance of 22,361.

Wasps was 5,862 in Adams Park. And they have stated they have 2,700 season ticket holders. For comparison Connacht have 4,000, Ulster 10,000 and Munster, Leicester and Leinster around 12,000.

sydneybound

Winters wrote: »

Wasps was 5,862 in Adams Park. And they have stated they have 2,700 season ticket holders. For comparison Connacht have 4,000, Ulster 10,000 and Munster, Leicester and Leinster around 12,000.

They held one game in Twickenham and advertised the hell out of it. Big pages in the weeks leading up in the evening standard and metro (free London paper with massive readership) and only got 35,000 for all that effort. The place wasn't even half full. You may say that's good but the tickets were dirt cheap and harlequins and scarries have had much bigger crowds in wembley and Twickenham.

2,700 season tickets doesn't sustain a club. I bet in Coventry they'll double with amount and average gates of between 8,000 - 10,000 with bigger crowds for european matches.

irishbucsfan

sydneybound wrote: »

They held one game in Twickenham and advertised the hell out of it. Big pages in the weeks leading up in the evening standard and metro (free London paper with massive readership) and only got 35,000 for all that effort. The place wasn't even half full. You may say that's good but the tickets were dirt cheap and harlequins and scarries have had much bigger crowds in wembley and Twickenham.

2,700 season tickets doesn't sustain a club. I bet in Coventry they'll double with amount and average gates of between 8,000 - 10,000 with bigger crowds for european matches.

How much do you bet?! :pac:

English Lurker

sydneybound wrote: »

They held one game in Twickenham and advertised the hell out of it. Big pages in the weeks leading up in the evening standard and metro (free London paper with massive readership) and only got 35,000 for all that effort. The place wasn't even half full. You may say that's good but the tickets were dirt cheap and harlequins and scarries have had much bigger crowds in wembley and Twickenham.

2,700 season tickets doesn't sustain a club. I bet in Coventry they'll double with amount and average gates of between 8,000 - 10,000 with bigger crowds for european matches.

http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/highest_attendance.html?id=65;type=trophy - here is a list of highest ever Premiership attendances. Ignore the matches in late May - play-off finals - and you'll start seeing a trend in all the really big attendances; they involve two London clubs or more (all the September ones are London Double Headers).

I presume you're referring to last season's Stinger - the one against Glaws right down the bottom with 38k - there's your answer right there. For comparison's sake, that's more the Saracens-Ulster quarter-final. And while the quarter-final tickets cost more, they were for a quarter-final. Quins have only got above that attendance twice in the Premiership with games against non-London opposition.

As such, it seems fairly clear to me that 38k is actually pretty good going given the circumstances, and points to the fairly substantial levels of support that were there in London to be engaged by the club.

Yes, they weren't getting them out. Yes, going on and on with their attendances wasn't an option. But if you're claiming that the crowds they were getting were the biggest possible they could get where they were or in London, that there was no way they could have grown it through on the pitch success or luring back their casual fans, then there is no evidence for this and it completely goes against what I know of London rugby fans.

sydneybound

Bruce Craig mightn't be to the taste of many Irish people but you have to take your hat off and say he's an extremely ambitious man

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/10/champions-cupbruce-craig-bath-european-club-tournament

Good luck to him

sydneybound

sydneybound wrote: »

Bruce Craig mightn't be to the taste of many Irish people but you have to take your hat off and say he's an extremely ambitious man

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/10/champions-cupbruce-craig-bath-european-club-tournament

Good luck to him

They’re protecting their own interests, not looking at what’s best for rugby.”

Go **** yourself Bruce

CptMackey

sydneybound wrote: »

Bruce Craig mightn't be to the taste of many Irish people but you have to take your hat off and say he's an extremely ambitious man

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/10/champions-cupbruce-craig-bath-european-club-tournament

Good luck to him

Maybe if we're lucky he will go to soccer or be run over by a bus

former legend

sydneybound wrote: »

Bruce Craig mightn't be to the taste of many Irish people but you have to take your hat off and say he's an extremely ambitious man

Some of those ideas are just plain mental, but maybe he figures that if the club owners put all this crazy sh*t on the table, then the national unions will give in on the less controversial ones (which are what the clubs really want anyway).

Good luck to him

No, quite the opposite in fact.

thomond2006

Summer rugby would be disasterous for Irish sport, I'd hate to see the All-Ireland championship and domestic rugby season clash.

32 man matchday squads, two games a week? Yo Bruce, people need cash to go to matches you know.

Winters

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/10/champions-cupbruce-craig-bath-european-club-tournament

I am aghast at his intentions, these owners will ruin this sport. This really is a worrying time for the future direction of rugby. Private ownership will destroy rugby.

CatFromHue

A global calendar is something the players themselves have been on about for awhile.

How realistic is it that it'll be brought in I've no idea but the SH teams do benefit alot more from their calendar than we do from ours.

By the end of the AI's the SH teams will have been in camp for the guts of 4 months with only the International team to focus on, our guys never get that, and with the way the Summer Internationals are going both the home and the away team are ending up with the same amount of time in camp.

thomond2006

I really like how our season is broken up. If your province isn't doing great, there's always Ireland to look forward to and vice versa.

CatFromHue

Yeah me too but for pure performance of the national team it's a very bad set up

irishbucsfan

Can't see summer rugby happening here. The 32 teams thing is ridiculous.

A global calendar will be something we end up doing I'd say, but I don't think it'll be completely synchronous between the hemispheres

former legend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Summer rugby would be disasterous for Irish sport, I'd hate to see the All-Ireland championship and domestic rugby season clash.

That's why Brucie wants to move to the summer. The English and Welsh clubs will never be able to compete with soccer but that three-month break with no premier league must look mighty inviting.

bilston

Good luck to him?

Not from me!

The one idea I don't mind is the global calender. As someone else said the players themselves want that. Obviously playing in the summer in Ireland would bring rugby and GAA into direct competiion which would be bad news for the provinces, particularly Leinster, Munster and Connacht.

His other ideas are pretty mental.

OldRio

sydneybound wrote: »

Bruce Craig mightn't be to the taste of many Irish people but you have to take your hat off and say he's an extremely ambitious man

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/10/champions-cupbruce-craig-bath-european-club-tournament

Good luck to him

I have many English rugby friends who cannot stand the man.

As for the second part............I'm seriously lost for words..............................

sydneybound

Haha! Provoked a bit of a reaction there when I actually wasn't intending to do! As he's had such a successful career I was saying good luck in his future ventures.

To be honest and taking my Irish bias away, the new tournament which he created will be a whole lot more profitable than the Heineken Cup which we'll prefer as we were so successful in it. A qualification process in from the Pro12 is fair. All in all I think it'll end up being a brilliant tournament.

I think we just got to let it all go and move on which may be difficult for some,

former legend

sydneybound wrote: »

Haha! Provoked a bit of a reaction there when I actually wasn't intending to do! As he's had such a successful career I was saying good luck in his future ventures.

To be honest and taking my Irish bias away, the new tournament which he created will be a whole lot more profitable than the Heineken Cup which we'll prefer as we were so successful in it. A qualification process in from the Pro12 is fair. All in all I think it'll end up being a brilliant tournament.

I think we just got to let it all go and move on which may be difficult for some,

Read back over the negative reactions. No one mentioned the new tournament so it would appear that people have indeed "moved on".

People take exception to this punter essentially saying that the entire global rugby set up should be redesigned to suit him.

.ak

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/international/2014/1012/651753-ashley-cooper-to-make-move-to-europe/

Cmon Kane, sow the seeds for Leinster.

sydneybound

22 - 0 for Wasps over Bath.

Bath have currently 12 men on the field, 3 have been yellow carded!!

sydneybound

29 - 0 now for Wasps... didnt see that coming!

sydneybound

Game has come alive 29 - 22

errlloyd

I hate Craig's ideas for rugby. Big squads is an awful idea, and though I like the summer season a little bit, I hate the fact he wants international to be second fiddle to club.

However. I love the Bath team he has built, they are the most entertaining team to watch atm in my opinion. Very creative. I hope Sam Burgess doesn't displace one of the centres that'd be a ****ing travesty.

I also love their training facilities. It's like the train in Professor Xaviers X-Men academy. Google Farleigh house and have a look. It is slick.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

More thoughts on Waspsgate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29533983

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29537402

Me : How is this not the establishment of a brand new club? That club appears to be allowed to skip several leagues in order to play premiership rugby directly. The concerns from the Coventry RFC chairman in the above article would be less worrying if 'Coventry' Wasps RFC were made to start from the bottom (as they should be imo).

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not that I agree with this, but I believe the reason it's not considered as a brand new club is because the RFU (and I would suppose this may be true of other unions as well, I'm not sure) seem to consider the club to be based where their training facility is, and this is going to continue to exist as is.

In this case they're not moving the training facility. I've read that because of this not only are they not considered a new club, but they're actually still considered a London based club! Clearly those are regulations that need to be changed, but I'd imagine that change would be too late to affect the Coventry Wasps.

However they do claim that they will consider moving this, not sure how things will stand at that stage...

Yup, that appears to be it. Pretty bad implementation of a good rule tbh. Obviously geared to allow teams to change home grounds within reason, but I'd have thought 70m would be outside of those reasonable borders..

Good article here, that Winters just linked from the other thread
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/news-comment/hugh-godwin-wasps-didnt-have-to-send-themselves-to-coventry-9789348.html

The Rugby Football Union favour light-touch regulation. Nominally the governing body, the RFU describe the Premiership clubs as "independent". They have had nothing to say on the Coventry move other than to confirm, if anyone asked, that as long as Pro Wasps keep their academy licence in the London area, they are not flouting the regulation designed to stop a club being bought in one place and parachuted into another, treading on others' toes and avoiding the tedious hard work of fighting upwards through the leagues.