Underrated classic games

da gamer

Thargor wrote: »

Almost as bad as the polygons was the darkness and dull textures from those times, draw distances also.

I actually liked the darkness and even duller textures at the time, gave the generation it's own uniqueness and added to the atmosphere of a lot of those games at the time

deathrider

da gamer wrote: »

I don't know how his opinion is informed either.
I'm interested in what you say about if it's a classic it will stand the test of time. I have wondered this myself lately and pose the question; if a game is brilliant at the time of its release and for that generation, but ages badly, does that mean it's not a classic because it doesn't stand the test of time?
The reason I ask is like I said, I recently played the early tomb raider games and found them difficult to play due to the visuals and controls, yet I will always regard those games as classics. Whats everyone else's views?

This is a good point. Let's take Tomb Raider as an example too. The original was pretty ground breaking at the time. I loved it, and regarded it for a long time as one of my aall time favourites. It was knocked off it's percha bout ten years ago by the stunning Tomb Raide Anniversary though. I've lately went back and played the PS1 croft titles again, and yes for the most part they handle really badly. They've still got some great atmosphere to them, but they definitely don't hold up to the juggernaughts that they once were. However, is the original Tomb Raider still a classic? In my eyes, yes! Regardless of how it plays now, it was a fantastic game at the time and I spent a lot of hours playing it; loveing every damn minute too. The memories I've made with this game still stand up, and are still improtant to me. This could be regarded as nothing more than nostalgia because of this, but what is nostalgia only recalling a time that was classic for whatever reason. The original Warhawk, Twisted Metal and many more just ain't what they used to be, but they're still classics and often the beginning of franchises that have grown from these roots. That seems pretty classic to me.

CiDeRmAn

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As was Tombi and indeed G-Darius, but given they were played on 2D planes I'd still happily call them 2D games, even if the graphics were three dimensional 2.5D if we're compromising

I think we were talking about the awfulness if early polygon based games vs the eternal bliss of sprite based art.
And with that in mind
Is RType better looking than RType Delta?
Is Darius Gaiden better looking than G Darius?
What about Super Mario World vs Super Mario 3D World

Its easy to prefer Sonic 2 over Sonic Adventure, or even be able to scoff at the naffness that is the Actua sports series on mid 90s consoles.
But there are games that were beautiful in the hands of good developers.

Generic Dreadhead

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

What about Super Mario World vs Super Mario 3D World

Super Mario World

CiDeRmAn

Cormac... wrote: »

Super Mario World

Well, yes, of course.

I'm not to sure if I prefer Super Metroid over Metroid Prime though.

Retr0gamer

It's not really graphics that age games it's more the framerate. In the PS1 /N64 era an awful lot of games ran at about 20 fps or less. They might have sported groundbreaking graphics but the result is going back to them the control lag issues really hurt games like Goldeneye etc. it's why Rare's games mostly don't hold up on N64 while the Nintendo first party stuff that targeted a rock solid high frame rate still do. Twisted Metal and Warhawks classics? They might have been fun as early PS1 games but they've aged so badly. The bang of 90s Extremitude off twisted metal is so embarrassing now.

As for Tomb Raider, those games are pretty awful now on PS1 but I'm playing them at 60 fps on PC and Tomb Raider 1 holds up surprisingly well, I'd say it's a classic for sure. The sequels don't really. The combat once they added men with guns is awful and the level design just isn't as well thought out as in the original (not gotten to last revelation yet which I recall was a return to form for the series).

As for super metro is vs metro is prime, prime is almost perfect. Super metroid is the perfect game.

CiDeRmAn

Blastcorps is still the N64 game I still can go back to, nothing like it since either.
Can't remember what it's frame rate was like though.
I can recall OoT had a low double digit frame rate at times but it didn't detract from the game at all.
It's things like crap cameras, screen tearing and clipping issues that ruin older games for me.

SeantheMan

da gamer wrote: »

https://youtu.be/Rn9IbUtbzgY

One of the most underrated games of the ps2 generation. It's a pity it passed so many people buy. One of the best licenced games ever, graphically brilliant, good story, challenging with a lengthy campaign, I'd recommend anyone who hasn't played this to give it a go

The Scarface game was completely different to the story of the film If I remember correctly. I have it on PC...it was ok...very repetitive.

Kirby

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Super metroid is the perfect game.

It's one of my favourite games ever. And I mean that. But I keep seeing you call it perfect. If you knew how many game breaking bugs and skips existed in that game you might very well change your mind. You can seriously break the game.

Being able to one shot Kraid, Accessing the alien ship at the beginning of the game, arm pumping making you run faster, getting super speed with about 5 steps instead of 20, getting super missiles before spore, being able to skip spore entirely.....No cheats. Can all be done with a regular snes, emulator, or on Wii.

This one in particular is insane. You can restart the game with all items. 5 minutes in to see the good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK83i8BwpIU

Star Lord

Kirby wrote: »

It's one of my favourite games ever. And I mean that. But I keep seeing you call it perfect. If you knew how many game breaking bugs and skips existed in that game you might very well change your mind. You can seriously break the game.

Being able to one shot Kraid, Accessing the alien ship at the beginning of the game, arm pumping making you run faster, getting super speed with about 5 steps instead of 20, getting super missiles before spore, being able to skip spore entirely.....No cheats. Can all be done with a regular snes, emulator, or on Wii.

This one in particular is insane. You can restart the game with all items. 5 minutes in to see the good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK83i8BwpIU

How does any of that impact on how good the game is? By perfect he doesn't mean perfectly coded with no imperfections!

Retr0gamer

I'd go so far as to say they make the game even more fun for speed running. After watching awesome games done quick I very much doubt there is any game out there without bugs or exploits.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Blastcorps is still the N64 game I still can go back to, nothing like it since either.
Can't remember what it's frame rate was like though.

The frame rate is dreadful but doesn't affect the game that much especially when the destruction you cause is what is bringing the frame rate to its knees.

Lemlin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

.
As for Tomb Raider, those games are pretty awful now on PS1 but I'm playing them at 60 fps on PC and Tomb Raider 1 holds up surprisingly well, I'd say it's a classic for sure. The sequels don't really. The combat once they added men with guns is awful and the level design just isn't as well thought out as in the original (not gotten to last revelation yet which I recall was a return to form for the series).

It's twenty years since I played it, so don't ask me how it stands up to time, but Tomb Raider 2 was my favourite of the series because it involved alot more action.

Still have the Definitive Edition on PS4 waiting to be opened after I finish messing round with FIFA.

It'll be the first TR game I've played in probably 15 years. The last one was TR Chronicles.

Thargor

Lemlin wrote: »

It's twenty years since I played it, so don't ask me how it stands up to time, but Tomb Raider 2 was my favourite of the series because it involved alot more action.

Still have the Definitive Edition on PS4 waiting to be opened after I finish messing round with FIFA.

It'll be the first TR game I've played in probably 15 years. The last one was TR Chronicles.

Its shockingly good, didnt even need to be Tomb raider tbh, it could have spawned its own franchise with a few tweaks, great atmosphere.

CiDeRmAn

If you like Tomb Raider you should probably try Prince of Persia, both the original 2d platformed and the quite brilliant game on the PS2 and the first sequel.
The PS2 games have a great grasp, pun intended, of using 3D space as a climbing frame.

sniper_samurai

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

If you like Tomb Raider you should probably try Prince of Persia, both the original 2d platformed and the quite brilliant game on the PS2 and the first sequel.
The PS2 games have a great grasp, pun intended, of using 3D space as a climbing frame.

Plus the HD versions are often down to €5 on PSN making them a bargain. Not without their problems on the PS3 though such as not being able to remap controls.

Thargor

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

If you like Tomb Raider you should probably try Prince of Persia, both the original 2d platformed and the quite brilliant game on the PS2 and the first sequel.
The PS2 games have a great grasp, pun intended, of using 3D space as a climbing frame.

That directed at me, I played the sh1t out of them in college , finished them 4 or 5 times, absolutely loved them.

Mal-Adjusted

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

If you like Tomb Raider you should probably try Prince of Persia, both the original 2d platformed and the quite brilliant game on the PS2 and the first sequel.
The PS2 games have a great grasp, pun intended, of using 3D space as a climbing frame.

The only one of those iv'e played is The Sands of Time on xbox. loved it. Iv'e been meaning to get Warrior Within

pablomakaveli

SeantheMan wrote: »

The Scarface game was completely different to the story of the film If I remember correctly. I have it on PC...it was ok...very repetitive.

The game was set after the movie. Tony Montana survives the movie ending and has to rebuild his drug empire in the game.

Retr0gamer

Lemlin wrote: »

It's twenty years since I played it, so don't ask me how it stands up to time, but Tomb Raider 2 was my favourite of the series because it involved alot more action.

Still have the Definitive Edition on PS4 waiting to be opened after I finish messing round with FIFA.

It'll be the first TR game I've played in probably 15 years. The last one was TR Chronicles.

I'm near the end of TR2 now after jumping in straight from TR1. There is indeed more action but since the combat is the worst part about Tomb Raider it makes the game a whole lot worse. Level design is no where near as interesting either with the great puzzles of TR1 replaced with find the key shenanigans. There's some bad game design as well with areas you can't avoid taking damage on so they leave a med kit for the player and since enemies have guns you can't really avoid taking damage so the solution is to load the player up with health.

SeantheMan

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The game was set after the movie. Tony Montana survives the movie ending and has to rebuild his drug empire in the game.

Ahh you're right too...they changed the ending right... you go through the mansion with infinite bullets and the rage meter slow motion thing for the first part of the game.
On underrated classics have we mentioned Die Hard Trilogy ?...I thought it was brilliant

Retr0gamer

You should play it now. The lightgun section is great, the other two though are garbage.

CiDeRmAn

The on foot section was dreadful and the driving section was as bad.
The shooting levels based on Die Hard 2, they were sublime, one of the best on the system.
I never played the sequel, Die Hard Trilogy 2, I can only imagine its muck.

da gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

The on foot section was dreadful and the driving section was as bad.
The shooting levels based on Die Hard 2, they were sublime, one of the best on the system.
I never played the sequel, Die Hard Trilogy 2, I can only imagine its muck.

The lightgun section was, as you say, sublime, even without a gun. The on foot section was actually fun, and the driving, while being the poorest of the three, was okay at the time. Considering they were three full games, and three different genres, I thought it was a great bargain. Imagine getting something like that in this day and age? Something tells me the letters D, L and C would be applied.

Thargor

Loved the on-foot sections in Die Hard tbh.

Retr0gamer

It was great for what it was at the time, a decent PS1 game at a time when great PS1 games were thin on the ground. It doesn't really cut it anymore other than those great lightgun sections.

da gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

at a time when great PS1 games were thin on the ground.

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Iseedeadpixels

Jaysus I loved all the games on the Die Hard Trilogy

Anyone remember Firo and Klawd? loved that gem of a game.

Retr0gamer

da gamer wrote: »

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95 was the launch year for the PS1. Plenty of exciting games released then but who really cares now for the likes of Loaded or Twisted Metal. It was neck and neck witht the Saturn. It started it pull away in 1996 with some classic games like Resident Evil but it had a fair few hused up games that in retrospect just aren't very good, like crash bandicoot, alien trilogy and we'll Die Hard trilogy. The SNES was still regarded as by far the best console that year but the tables were starting to turn in favour of the PS1. 1997 came around and the PS1 finally hit its stride and was unstoppable from then on with classic after classic on the system.

The first two years there was a lot of excitement for the PS1 especially the potential it showed but not a lot of good games, although that's not to say there weren't some classics in there as well like Rapid Reload and Jumping Flash.

K.O.Kiki

Started playing Tomb Raider: Anniversary, and I feel it's aged pretty well.

Definitely prefer its gameplay to Tomb Raider 2013.

da gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

95 was the launch year for the PS1. Plenty of exciting games released then but who really cares now for the likes of Loaded or Twisted Metal. It was neck and neck witht the Saturn. It started it pull away in 1996 with some classic games like Resident Evil but it had a fair few hused up games that in retrospect just aren't very good, like crash bandicoot, alien trilogy and we'll Die Hard trilogy. The SNES was still regarded as by far the best console that year but the tables were starting to turn in favour of the PS1. 1997 came around and the PS1 finally hit its stride and was unstoppable from then on with classic after classic on the system.

The first two years there was a lot of excitement for the PS1 especially the potential it showed but not a lot of good games, although that's not to say there weren't some classics in there as well like Rapid Reload and Jumping Flash.

Die hard was released in 1996 I think. Tomb raider, resident evil, crash bandicoot, wipeout, tekken 1 and 2, duke nukem 3d and doom off the top of my head were all released in 95 or 96, hardly a poor year for a new console

Lemlin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

95 was the launch year for the PS1. Plenty of exciting games released then but who really cares now for the likes of Loaded or Twisted Metal. It was neck and neck witht the Saturn. It started it pull away in 1996 with some classic games like Resident Evil but it had a fair few hused up games that in retrospect just aren't very good, like crash bandicoot, alien trilogy and we'll Die Hard trilogy. The SNES was still regarded as by far the best console that year but the tables were starting to turn in favour of the PS1. 1997 came around and the PS1 finally hit its stride and was unstoppable from then on with classic after classic on the system.

The first two years there was a lot of excitement for the PS1 especially the potential it showed but not a lot of good games, although that's not to say there weren't some classics in there as well like Rapid Reload and Jumping Flash.

In '97, Final Fantasy VII arrived and no other console at the time could beat the PlayStation.

Die Hard Trilogy was actually the first game I got for my PlayStation. I only had the demo disc that came with it and my brother had to go into Tesco to buy it as I was only 13! It may have even been Quinnsworth at the time!

Maximus Alexander

I had great fun with Die Hard Trilogy - but I was ten at the time so the bar was probably a lot lower for me than it would be now.

TerrorFirmer

Actually played the light gun section a while back, still a bit of craic to play. The funny thing is even though I've finished it countless times, not once did I ever use an actual light gun!

Die Hard Trilogy 2 was playable but no-where near as good.

CiDeRmAn

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Actually played the light gun section a while back, still a bit of craic to play. The funny thing is even though I've finished it countless times, not once did I ever use an actual light gun!

Die Hard Trilogy 2 was playable but no-where near as good.

Was this back before you were turned to the dark side, to the PC?

da gamer

I think the thing about die hard was having three separatea games on one disc. The idea was great while the execution might not have been to everyone's taste.

Far from a classic but another game I played back then that may have went under some people's radar was sentient. Strange game with plenty of bugs and poor graphics but there was something about that game that I enjoyed, maybe it was the level of interaction between characters, which was few and far between in games back then

Retr0gamer

da gamer wrote: »

Die hard was released in 1996 I think. Tomb raider, resident evil, crash bandicoot, wipeout, tekken 1 and 2, duke nukem 3d and doom off the top of my head were all released in 95 or 96, hardly a poor year for a new console

Some of those games are poor PC conversions and a few like crash bandicoot just aren't all that great and only got any recognition because the PS1 was crying out for a mascot character. I played through Crash 1 recently, it's an okay game with a few dreadfully designed levels. As for Tekken, the second one was 1996 and while it was a good game it paled in comparison to the stunning Saturn version of Virtual Fighter 2 which ran at a crazy high resolution and was the better game. 1996 was an ok year for PS1 were it was only really getting established. There were a lot of games released then that don't really hold up and we were only really playing them because they were new and exciting and well there wasn't much else out at the moment. 97 though, that was one hell of a year to be a play station owner. FF7, Symphony of the Night, Parappa the Rapper etc. Bernie Stolar leaving Sony opened the floodgates for those types of weird games and he was personally keeping back Symphony of the Night apparently. He went to Sega and then ruined what little chance the Saturn had at becoming at least a niche machine trying to replicate his methods that proved so successful for the PS1.

Sentient, now that was a strange game, really nothing else like it before or since. The PS1 was great for those experimental games.

This year to me feels like the PS1's 96 as well but for PS4, loads of games that are ok but will be forgotten in a years time and the odd classic like Bloodbourne.

CiDeRmAn

Rapid Racer, a novel speed boat racing game that ran in the PlayStation's Hi res mode afaik.
It was also the first Pal title to benefit from a new SDK that allowed developers to identify more readily areas of code that could be improved upon, releasing resources.
This may me "blast" processing by another name but the game looked and moved beautifully.

Overboard is another nice title, Psygnosis i think.

Retr0gamer

No, that actually sounds legitimate unlike blast processing very few games ran in hi res mode on PS1 but they looked gorgeous especially the Tobal games that also hit 60fps. The saturns hi res mode is even better although again too few games use it. Tekken might have had the fancy transparency effects but VF2 just looked and moved gorgeously on Saturn.

CiDeRmAn

Virtua Fighter 2 was and is a great game, an apology of sorts for the disappointment of Virtua Fighter.
Daytona looked crummy but boy did it play well, low res and variable frame rates included.

Speaking of which, an underrated game or at least a game very few got to play, Daytona on the Dreamcast, a stunning game, beautiful visuals and plays very nicely, though the regular controller sensitivities need to be adjusted to make it excellent. The use of the steering wheel makes it perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RetdTo1ZVCY

sniper_samurai

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Virtua Fighter 2 was and is a great game, an apology of sorts for the disappointment of Virtua Fighter.
Daytona looked crummy but boy did it play well, low res and variable frame rates included.

Speaking of which, an underrated game or at least a game very few got to play, Daytona on the Dreamcast, a stunning game, beautiful visuals and plays very nicely, though the regular controller sensitivities need to be adjusted to make it excellent. The use of the steering wheel makes it perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RetdTo1ZVCY

Agreed about Daytona.

As for Virtua Fighter the first version was disappointing, but really enjoyed the superior Remix version which redid VF1 in the Saturn based STV engine to give it textured polygons like the model 2 games. Still nowhere as good as VF2 though.

CiDeRmAn

Fighters Remix is another triumph, and I played an awful lot of VF3tb on the Dreamcast as well.
I must pick up a VF controller for the Saturn at some point, they are pretty nice indeed.

Retr0gamer

Thought virtual fighter 3 on dream cast wasn't that great. It was kind of the black sheep of the family to begin with but it also looked no where near as good as the arcade game (understandable since it was running on much more powerful model 3 tech) while Soul Calibur looked better and actually visually improved on the arcade game in some areas and a 480p mode.

Deathwish4

I'm sure they've been mentioned already but -

Flimbos Quest - The ultimate in gaming
Turbulence
Midnight Resistance

Thargor

Midnight Resistance is on nearly every classic games list Ive ever read, hardly underrated...

Retr0gamer

I'm going to have to say Shin Megami Tensei Lucifers Call or Nocturne in the states. People that really know their RPGs say it's far and away the best RPGS on the PS2 (I'd be more inclined to say that Persona 3 and 4 are as good if not better) but most people don't know about the game which is a shame. As a pure RPG there's really nothing better on the system, it's all about the gameplay and systems. It can get difficult but it's never unfair. All most people talk about when it comes to RPGs on the PS2 is FFX which while a good game really isn't that amazing and there's way better in the system, with Nocturne being well up there.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Thought virtual fighter 3 on dream cast wasn't that great. It was kind of the black sheep of the family to begin with but it also looked no where near as good as the arcade game (understandable since it was running on much more powerful model 3 tech) while Soul Calibur looked better and actually visually improved on the arcade game in some areas and a 480p mode.

I just played a lot of it, and this was because it was a launch game on my imported DC.

da gamer

Might have been mentioned already, perhaps by me even, but Alice madness returns on the Xbox 360 was a super game and totally underrated.

Rickamania1

Abe's Odyssey was class. And V-Rally too. Was rather fond of Formula 1 99 I must say!

da gamer

Rickamania1 wrote: »

Abe's Odyssey was class. And V-Rally too. Was rather fond of Formula 1 99 I must say!

Agreed on all 3. V-rally 2, while not as good as the first, was great in that you could design your own course with bad hills, jumps and loops in the road.
I loved the first f1 game on ps1. It was one of the first games I bought on the console and it blew my mind with commentary from Murray Walker and tracks that were identical to the real life ones.