making a living out of sheep?

farm14

Is it possible to make a living out of sheep if you took away sfp & all other payments would you make a living? What sort of net profit could you make out of a ewe after all costs?

arctictree

farm14 wrote: »

Is it possible to make a living out of sheep if you took away sfp & all other payments would you make a living? What sort of net profit could you make out of a ewe after all costs?

Yes, but you need to have:

1) Enough land to hold about 300 ewes and preferably without a loan

2) Very good fencing

3) Good sheds/4x4/trailer etc already paid for

razor8

arctictree wrote: »

Yes, but you need to have:

1) Enough land to hold about 300 ewes and preferably without a loan

2) Very good fencing

3) Good sheds/4x4/trailer etc already paid for

As above reseeding, drainage., a handling unit, loader for tractor would all need to be in place IMO before you see any decent profit

farm14

razor8 wrote: »

As above reseeding, drainage., a handling unit, loader for tractor would all need to be in place IMO before you see any decent profit

Okay but what are the profit margins in sheep? What are the best making per ewe?

bonaparte2

http://www.teagasc.ie/NFS/NFS-Prelininary-Estimates-2013.pdf

see page 6 for the bad news

10k a year

farm14

bonaparte2 wrote: »

http://www.teagasc.ie/NFS/NFS-Prelininary-Estimates-2013.pdf

see page 6 for the bad news

10k a year

Does that include direct payments? What is the average flock size?

tomwaterford

arctictree wrote: »

Yes, but you need to have:

1) Enough land to hold about 300 ewes and preferably without a loan

2) Very good fencing

3) Good sheds/4x4/trailer etc already paid for

would you also need enough silage ground as well as land to rear replacements??

farm14

bonaparte2 wrote: »

http://www.teagasc.ie/NFS/NFS-Prelininary-Estimates-2013.pdf

see page 6 for the bad news

10k a year

Why does it say their that family farm income was €11,160? I don't get their sums tbh how could an average sheep farmer with 138 ewes have costs of €35,517

ganmo

farm14 wrote: »

Why does it say their that family farm income was €11,160? I don't get their sums tbh how could an average sheep farmer with 138 ewes have costs of €35,517

page 15

farm14

ganmo wrote: »

page 15

Yes I seen I it but can't understand how average sheep farmer with 138 ewes could have costs of €35,000

Conmaicne Mara

farm14 wrote: »

Yes I seen I it but can't understand how average sheep farmer with 138 ewes could have costs of €35,000

Maybe it includes all house hold bills, running cars, etc.

ganmo

farm insurance, farm loan, fert, diesel, buying & making winter feed, doeses vaccines, tags, vet bills...knacker fees
not massive bills in their own right but they add up. Often after selllin lambs we'd cross the road and spend it in the co-op

Kevin the sheep

ganmo wrote: »

farm insurance, farm loan, fert, diesel, buying & making winter feed, doeses vaccines, tags, vet bills...knacker fees
not massive bills in their own right but they add up. Often after selllin lambs we'd cross the road and spend it in the co-op

As little as possible to the co-op and you would make money I would think

rangler1

ganmo wrote: »

page 15

Those results don't make sense, 138 ewes on 54 ha is nearer to .5lu/ha instead of their 1lu/ha, they claim the gross output is around €220/ewe and I wish I had ewes doing that.
Their costs are near €300/ewe, ours would be 100-120/ewe........does anyone in teagasc ever check these figures....public service again

farm14

Lads those figures just don't make sense to me. Theirs no way 138 ewes could have an annual cost of €35,000. So is their anyone out their who can tell me if their is profit from ewes??

Kevin the sheep

farm14 wrote: »

Lads those figures just don't make sense to me. Theirs no way 138 ewes could have an annual cost of €35,000. So is their anyone out their who can tell me if their is profit from ewes??

I asked this two weeks ago ( profit from sheep ) and lads on here said they would be operating at a loss only for SFP except rangler 1 I think it was who made a profit without SFP could be more just remember him sayin but couldn't find out profit per ewe so if anyone has a ball park figure

rangler1

farm14 wrote: »

Lads those figures just don't make sense to me. Theirs no way 138 ewes could have an annual cost of €35,000. So is their anyone out their who can tell me if their is profit from ewes??

Gross margin here in 2011 was €100/ewe and in 2012 was €60/ewe on a mainly march april lambing flock and lambs making €90 -€100
I'm using those two years because 2011 was a good year and 2012 was a bad year....grass didn't grow until may and it started to rain then and never stopped

bonaparte2

rangler1 wrote: »

Those results don't make sense, 138 ewes on 54 ha is nearer to .5lu/ha instead of their 1lu/ha, they claim the gross output is around €220/ewe and I wish I had ewes doing that.
Their costs are near €300/ewe, ours would be 100-120/ewe........does anyone in teagasc ever check these figures....public service again

This is the National Farm Survey. Its accurate, people on the ground visit selected farms and examine in fine detail all aspects of the farm business .

Its carried out every year for the last thirty and is seen as the best practice in the EU.

It does show widespread variation in incomes...


About 30% of Sheep farms produced a family farm
income of €5,000 or less in 2013, with a further
22% earning between €5,000 and €10,000. About
7% of sheep farms produced a farm income of
€30,000 or greater.

rangler1

bonaparte2 wrote: »

This is the National Farm Survey. Its accurate, people on the ground visit selected farms and examine in fine detail all aspects of the farm business .

Its carried out every year for the last thirty and is seen as the best practice in the EU.

It does show widespread variation in incomes...


About 30% of Sheep farms produced a family farm
income of €5,000 or less in 2013, with a further
22% earning between €5,000 and €10,000. About
7% of sheep farms produced a farm income of
€30,000 or greater.

Stocking rate of 1lu/ is wrong, costs/ewe is unlikely, are these figures even near what's produced by the profit monitors, there shouldn't be a huge difference

Kevin the sheep

rangler1 wrote: »

Stocking rate of 1lu/ is wrong, costs/ewe is unlikely, are these figures even near what's produced by the profit monitors, there shouldn't be a huge difference

Rangler could you tell me what is left in your pocket per ewe befor sub and reps and the rest at the end of the year if you don't want to know bother

Kevin the sheep

Sorry photo was mistake

rangler1

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Rangler could you tell me what is left in your pocket per ewe befor sub and reps and the rest at the end of the year if you don't want to know bother

I put up my profit monitors a while back under the rancher name, Its post 3 at this link

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88876464

Kevin the sheep

That's not bad profit I was looking at 1.7lu per hectare but taught I would be lookin at €50 per ewe have 120acres to work off so should make a living on average of your figures €80 then the bit of subside on top I know I'm gona take a while to get there but I will . Was goin to go dairying but everyone around me seems to be goin at it and the investment I'd be workin me life to pay that back so no point in workin for bank

rangler1

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

That's not bad profit I was looking at 1.7lu per hectare but taught I would be lookin at €50 per ewe have 120acres to work off so should make a living on average of your figures €80 then the bit of subside on top I know I'm gona take a while to get there but I will . Was goin to go dairying but everyone around me seems to be goin at it and the investment I'd be workin me life to pay that back so no point in workin for bank

Theres loads of scope there to cut costs and increase output if you have good land and reseeding, 12 ewes/ha should be achieveable

Cattlepen

I agree with all that but then your numbers creep up to a level that you will require extra help. That expense takes the good out of any other savings you make and more with it. To be honest I have used the sheep as a cash flow soloution for the past few years. That is going to stop this year though. Seriously cutting back on inputs and stock. It just isn't adding up

farawaygrass

12 ewes a hectare? seriously? that aprox 5 an acre isnt it?

rangler1

Cattlepen wrote: »

I agree with all that but then your numbers creep up to a level that you will require extra help. That expense takes the good out of any other savings you make and more with it. To be honest I have used the sheep as a cash flow soloution for the past few years. That is going to stop this year though. Seriously cutting back on inputs and stock. It just isn't adding up

Its hard to manage grass for sheep only at a low stocking rate.
If I was kevin, I wouldn't dismiss dairying but a few years at sheep might be wise until this dairy bubble settles down.

Kevin the sheep

rangler1 wrote: »

Its hard to manage grass for sheep only at a low stocking rate.
If I was kevin, I wouldn't dismiss dairying but a few years at sheep might be wise until this dairy bubble settles down.

I think dairying is out because of set up costs why put myself in serious debt when I could work two three days a week on a dairy farm and work the farm at home I'd be reasonably comfortable but I'd be happy at it that's the important part

farm14

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

I think dairying is out because of set up costs why put myself in serious debt when I could work two three days a week on a dairy farm and work the farm at home I'd be reasonably comfortable but I'd be happy at it that's the important part

Yes it is a big investment alright. 120 acres could carry 80 cows & rear replacements while also making silage off it. My advice would be to borrow money over as long a period as possible. Worth doing sums on though dairy done well can offer a very good income especially compared to sheep

Kevin the sheep

It would but your tied to farm 7 days a week you have pressure on you because of borrowings meeting repayments and if milk price drops back to 5-6cent profit I would be f____ because I would have.a higher production cost than a fella set up for years s/he would be able to stick a year or two of bad price where I would not. lot to be said for peace of mind goin to bed each night think id live longer

farm14

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

It would but your tied to farm 7 days a week you have pressure on you because of borrowings meeting repayments and if milk price drops back to 5-6cent profit I would be f____ because I would have.a higher production cost than a fella set up for years s/he would be able to stick a year or two of bad price where I would not. lot to be said for peace of mind goin to bed each night think id live longer

Ah well if it' for a easy life you want well then you probably wouldn't but if it were for profit making you would go dairy hands down as it's a big difference compared to sheep financially.

Kevin the sheep

farm14 wrote: »

Ah well if it' for a easy life you want well then you probably wouldn't but if it were for profit making you would go dairy hands down as it's a big difference compared to sheep financially.

I've said it many times befor don't wana be rich from farmin just make a livening for my family as simple as possible will do fine. Sound like a lazy sh-- but I'm not I'm up at half 5 rain or shine and do 16 hour days working 12 on 2 off so not afraid of work

farm14

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

I've said it many times befor don't wana be rich from farmin just make a livening for my family as simple as possible will do fine. Sound like a lazy sh-- but I'm not I'm up at half 5 rain or shine and do 16 hour days working 12 on 2 off so not afraid of work

Ah yeah know what you mean & didn't say you were. Always do what you want to do & something you enjoy doing. No point doing a thing if you don't enjoy it

Kevin the sheep

farm14 wrote: »

Ah yeah know what you mean & didn't say you were.
Didn't mean to sound like you were callin me lazy I was making meself sound lazy

metalwood

Sheep are an expensive hobby..... They cover their keep and a pint at the end of the week

Neddyusa

rangler1 wrote: »

Those results don't make sense, 138 ewes on 54 ha is nearer to .5lu/ha instead of their 1lu/ha, they claim the gross output is around €220/ewe and I wish I had ewes doing that.
Their costs are near €300/ewe, ours would be 100-120/ewe........does anyone in teagasc ever check these figures....public service again

Most of those "Sheep" farms would have some cattle as well Rangler.
They would have small suckler herds or dry stock along with the sheep.

However the costs and margins are expressed on a per-ewe-basis which makes the costs look crazy high as you point out.....because the cattle could be just 30% of the livestock units but responsible for 60% of the costs on the farm!
(The stocking rate doesn't add up for the same reason: numbers of cattle not shown)

I reckon if the costs and returns of the cattle enterprises were excluded net profits on those average sheep farms should be roughly 20% to 25% greater than the average cattle farm.