What do Irish Muslims think about Caliph Ibrahim?

Azwaldo55

Caliph Ibrahim (real name Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri al-Samarrai) has demanded the allegiance of all Muslims everywhere throughout the world and calls on Muslims to flock to the Caliphate in what was once Syria and Iraq and conquer the rest of the globe by jihad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi

Proclaiming a "new era" in which Muslims will ultimately triumph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi issued the call to jihad - holy war - in an audio message lasting nearly 20 minutes that was posted online on Tuesday.

Baghdadi, who has assumed the medieval title of caliph, used the message to seek to assert authority over Muslims everywhere. He called on them to rise up and avenge the alleged wrongs committed against their religion, from Central African Republic to Myanmar (Burma).

"By Allah, we will take revenge, by Allah we will take revenge, even if after a while," he said.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/iraqi-rebel-leader-calls-holy-war-201471202429388292.html

So what do Irish Muslims think about this development?

wes

Mullah Omar already declared himself Caliph years ago. I don't really understand why anyone is taking this other fool seriously, when they ignored it the last time, another fool did it.

No one has recognized him as a Caliph, and under any version of Islamic law, you can't just declare yourself Caliph in anyways.

His groups has not only murdered innocent civilians, but has attacked various other militant groups, both Religious and secular, and was even rejected by Al Qaeda as being to extreme.

There success in Iraq is largely due to Nuri Al Maliki's own sectarian bigotry that has seen a resumption of the Iraqi civil war. The only reason they have gotten so far is due to the Iraqi armies incompetence, and again the overly sectarian governance of there leadership. The sooner this fool is in prison, the better for everyone.

Also, referring to the fool and mass murder as a Caliph is giving legitimacy to someone who has exactly none of it.

confusedquark

I'll second that last post.

FTA69

Irish Muslims aren't a homogenous group. Thankfully most Muslims recognise this fella for the crackpot he is.

Boatmen

Where are the Muslim leaders here in this country speaking out against the violence, the killings that Muslims are doing in the world?
Why won't they condone this sort of thing?
I do agree with the post from the person that Muslims do not assimilate into westerners society.
As said by a person in the above thread, look at all the trouble in the uk, France, Sweden,
They consider those of us who are not Muslims infidels. Look at all the violence committed in the name of Islam around the world, it seems to be getting worse and worse and no word from the Muslim leaders here in Ireland with a growing Muslim population.
Here is another question that I have regarding Islam if anyone can answer it.
Why is it when a non Muslim marries a Muslim he/ she has to convert to Islam but not the other way around. Look ate the woman in Sudan who was chained up having a baby in prison because she wanted or changed from Islam to Christianity. What kind of a so called religion calls for this, for war, for revenge etc...
We have a lot of our own Irish people emigrating know out to the Far East, will their beliefs be upheld? Will their religion be respected? Would Catholics be allowed to build Catholic Church say in Saudi?
We Irish are too soft afraid to speak up and ask these sort of questions. I'm Irish and proud and I love my country.

Tom Dunne

Boatmen wrote: »

Where are the Muslim leaders here in this country speaking out against the violence, the killings that Muslims are doing in the world?
Why won't they condone this sort of thing?
I do agree with the post from the person that Muslims do not assimilate into westerners society.
As said by a person in the above thread, look at all the trouble in the uk, France, Sweden,
They consider those of us who are not Muslims infidels. Look at all the violence committed in the name of Islam around the world, it seems to be getting worse and worse and no word from the Muslim leaders here in Ireland with a growing Muslim population.
Here is another question that I have regarding Islam if anyone can answer it.
Why is it when a non Muslim marries a Muslim he/ she has to convert to Islam but not the other way around. Look ate the woman in Sudan who was chained up having a baby in prison because she wanted or changed from Islam to Christianity. What kind of a so called religion calls for this, for war, for revenge etc...
We have a lot of our own Irish people emigrating know out to the Far East, will their beliefs be upheld? Will their religion be respected? Would Catholics be allowed to build Catholic Church say in Saudi?
We Irish are too soft afraid to speak up and ask these sort of questions. I'm Irish and proud and I love my country.

Seriously, if your contribution to this forum is going to be nothing more than the usual jaded stereotypes and gross generalisations, then please, spare us. We have hear it all before and we have debated it at length.

So please keep to the topic of this thread.

Have a look at previous threads to see where these issues have been discussed and debunked before. There are so many factual inaccuracies in your post. I'm Irish, I'm living in the Middle East and I'm not afraid to ask these sort of questions.

confusedquark

Our local Imam brought up ISIS in a talk after prayers last night. He categorically said they do not represent Islam, and are militants akin to the likes of the Taliban and Boko Haram, and stressed that Islam is tolerant and there's no room for the random killing of people not in your religion. Was good to hear.

Boatmen, as Tom said, most of the issues you mentioned have been dealt with in other threads. Have a read through here, here, and here. Feel free to contribute on those threads, and if there's still something else you want to clarify or discuss, feel free to start a new thread. I'll quickly add the majority of us do not refer to non-Muslims as infidels, we usually refer to people using their actual names, and if a matter of religion does come up, we'd usually refer to somebody as a Catholic, Jew, atheist etc. or a non-Muslim. For the record, I'm Irish, I'm Muslim and am proud of and love both my country and my religion. We Irish are therefore happy to speak up and answer questions that we Irish have.

Azwaldo55

Caliph Ibrahim speaks publicly and sports a fancy wrist watch.

Nodin

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Caliph Ibrahim speaks publicly and sports a fancy wrist watch.

....as he's robbed liberated large parts of Iraq, its unsurprising. I see they are blowing up Sunni and Shia shrines now -
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28177841
- a vile bunch, whose ideology has nothing to offer humanity.

RebelButtMunch

Nodin wrote: »

....as he's robbed liberated large parts of Iraq, its unsurprising. I see they are blowing up Sunni and Shia shrines now -
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28177841
- a vile bunch, whose ideology has nothing to offer humanity.

Why are they blowing up both sunni and shia shrines?

Azwaldo55

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Why are they blowing up both sunni and shia shrines?

They believe shrines are idolatry.
Caliph Ibrahim has vowed to march on Mecca and hopes the Saudi army will rebel against the Saudi monarchy and join his Caliphate.
As Ibrahim sees it the Grand Mosque in Mecca should be destroyed as a source of idolatry.
He claims he is a descendent of the Prophet and wants to return Islam to the Islam that existed at the time Muhammad and the first Caliphs.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/isis-puts-bulls-eye-on-mecca-medina/

Nodin

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Why are they blowing up both sunni and shia shrines?

They're Iconoclasts.

Azwaldo55

I wonder has the Caliph been reading Tom Holland's history of the origins of Islam?

Holland claims that the person known today as Muhammad probably came from the Negev and borrowed liberally from Judaism and Christianity in what is now Israel rather than present day Saudi Arabia and that the Arab Emperor Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan for political reasons rewrote Muslim history and placed Muhammad in Mecca and Medina.

confusedquark

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

I wonder has the Caliph been reading Tom Holland's history of the origins of Islam?

That's a very random question, and I assume just a way of bringing something unrelated into the thread.

Holland's entitled to his opinions - most non-Muslims do have their own beliefs about the origins of Islam, the predominant one probably being that prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) made up everything himself. Holland's views certainly are more elaborate, but I watched his documentary on channel 4 a little while back (Islam - the untold story), and aside from his theories about the empire needing Islam to expand (and hence the alleged rewriting of history), there wasn't a whole lot of substance to back his claims. From what I recall, his main "proofs" were that coins with the name of the prophet didn't appear until 60 years after his life, and that although the Quran made reference to trees, there apparently wouldn't have been any in Mecca at the time, and there was also something about the ruins of a mosque which was allegedly not facing Mecca.

There are pretty lengthy arguments against his theories and methods from The Islamic Education and Research Academy here and here - as you'd expect, I guess, but always helpful to read both sides of the argument regarding any such issue. He also got a less than favourable review in the telegraph.

whydoc

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

As Ibrahim sees it the Grand Mosque in Mecca should be destroyed as a source of idolatry.

Is this true

donaghs

Not so strange considering that in Saudi they have been demolishing historic religious sites since the 1700s.
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2005/26-august/comment/islam-debates-its-own-iconoclasm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia

Mainly for iconoclasitic reasons. e.g. you should be worshiping God, not the buildings, saints etc. Although you could also say in recent times the clearance of old buildings in Mecca to make room for new hotels for pilgrims could involve other financial motivations.