Any advice for Cork Week Noobs?

Vexorg

As a fairly novice crew heading to Cork Week (just over half of us a new to sailing with just over a years sailing under our belts), we are looking for a little help.

The SI's were put online over the weekend and there are a few things we are unsure about and have been unable to get more info from the organisers so far, so I am hoping some veterans of Cork Week can point us in the right Direction.

• - coordinates of fixed marks (We can work them out from the charts but the local clubs likely have these already - would be great to get them to save time working out and entering in gps)
  
• - our class flag is a Green flag (not a standard sailing pennant - are these supplied or do we make up?) Is this just any old green flag, any particular size or shade of green?
  
• - SIs give no indication of courses to be expected by White sails for Wed-Fri just says Coastal Course - it says the sailing area is the Outer and Inner Harbour, which would be fine if the separate Harbour Course did not define the sailing area as Cork Harbour Inner and Outer.

So we are a little confused and have not gotten clarification from the Cork Week team. We will be down for the training day on Monday and will find out then, but we like to be prepared well in advance.

So any advise on the above would be much appreciated together with any useful tips you might like to pass on:)

PS. We have not been able to get course cards or a course mark matrix (like the DBSC matrix - co ordinates, bearing, distance etc of race marks) from the club either.

HeidiHeidi

Vexorg wrote: »

As a fairly novice crew heading to Cork Week (just over half of us a new to sailing with just over a years sailing under our belts), we are looking for a little help.

The SI's were put online over the weekend and there are a few things we are unsure about and have been unable to get more info from the organisers so far, so I am hoping some veterans of Cork Week can point us in the right Direction.

• - coordinates of fixed marks (We can work them out from the charts but the local clubs likely have these already - would be great to get them to save time working out and entering in gps)
• - our class flag is a Green flag (not a standard sailing pennant - are these supplied or do we make up?) Is this just any old green flag, any particular size or shade of green?
• - SIs give no indication of courses to be expected by White sails for Wed-Fri just says Coastal Course - it says the sailing area is the Outer and Inner Harbour, which would be fine if the separate Harbour Course did not define the sailing area as Cork Harbour Inner and Outer.

So we are a little confused and have not gotten clarification from the Cork Week team. We will be down for the training day on Monday and will find out then, but we like to be prepared well in advance.

So any advise on the above would be much appreciated together with any useful tips you might like to pass on:)

PS. We have not been able to get course cards or a course mark matrix (like the DBSC matrix - co ordinates, bearing, distance etc of race marks) from the club either.

I've only ever done CW in the "regular" (ie not white sails) classes, so not sure how differently white sails is organised.

The usual set-up the times I was down there was there were four courses laid each day (W/L, Olympic, Trapezoid and can't remember the fourth configuation), you did a different one each day and one day was your harbour race. This, as far as I know, was the case for every class including white sails - but open to correction on that. The colour flag simply indicated which course you were on each day, you didn't actually have to have those flags. As far as I can recall we were in a class and flew that class flag. Do they possibly have a dedicated "green course" for White Sails this time?

I know last time I think they had one fewer course as the numbered entered were so small.

There will be a skippers briefing at some point before racing starts, so if you're not sure by then that's the time to go in with all your questions.

As for mark co-ordinates - as I say, we raced four days on laid courses, so there were no co-ordinates. The fifth race was the harbour course, for which co-ordinates were definitely provided - I remember sitting in the sun for hours being fed gin and tonics while I punched them all into the GPS - my thumbs nearly fell off :eek:.

If it is laid courses, plus a harbour race, then there will not be a course matrix similar to the DBSC one.

Sorry if that's no help - it's a few years since I was down there and like I say, I think things have probably changed as the numbers have dropped so much in the meantime (out of interest, do you have any idea of overall numbers entered this year?)

Best of luck with it all - have lots of fun! And lots of updates please!!!

HeidiHeidi

Having had a quick look at the SIs - the coastal course is being run on the same marks as the harbour course (what's the difference, sez you?!). The various options for courses are on the harbour course card.

Co-ordinates for laid marks on those courses (Volvo 1,2,3 etc) are given on page 15. Can't remember where we got the co-ordinates of the permanent harbour marks but we definitely got them.

HeidiHeidi

One last thing...... don't forget to nominate someone to check the noticeboard in the club for amendments each morning! Although they're probably doing email/text alerts these days like they did for the ICRAs - it was still bits of paper pinned on the noticeboard last time I was down there!)

Haven't time to read things properly - do you know which fleet you're in Knowing that would clarify a lot!

No idea about the green flag, I'm afraid - I suspect you'll need to ask in a chandlers for one, since it is indeed your class flag (shoulda read the SI's before making my first reply )

Vexorg

Heidi

Thanks for that, we are in Fleet C. We are harbour course on Tuesday and Coastal on Wed, Thursday and Friday and as you say the SI's say that the coastal courses are 1) the same as those detailed for the harbour course or as 2) chosen by the RO.

It is proving difficult to get the co ordinates for the Harbour Marks, I would have thought they would be readily available.

Regarding the Flag, I wonder if there is a prescribed shade or green, size and even shape. I was in a chandlery this morning looking for admiralty maps 1777 and 1765 and left with a set of leisure maps that do not have the info (doh!) He also did not know what sort of green flag I needed and did not have a green flag anyway:)

HeidiHeidi

Can you find previous SIs online? We definitely got a list of them all.

I'd say a pair of green knickers/boxers (depending on whose bag you raid) would do you for a flag

Vexorg

Great idea about the previous SIs, will go some googling.

Lol @ the flag idea, that idea had crossed my mind, however I can honestly say I have never owned a green pair of underwear (and why are they called a pair when its just one item of clothing).

pedroeibar1

Vexorg wrote: »

Great idea about the previous SIs, will go some googling.

Lol @ the flag idea, that idea had crossed my mind, however I can honestly say I have never owned a green pair of underwear (and why are they called a pair when its just one item of clothing).

Once upon a time undergarments were crotchless, two piece, each tied to the other around the waist with a ribbon front and back. The can-can dancers in the Offenbach era wore them, (so it was not the underwear the audience went to see.) Katherine Hepburn (?) has a great quote on Sharon Stone that I have to get right before I post.......

Knickers are American, via Dutch.

Vexorg

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

(out of interest, do you have any idea of overall numbers entered this year?)

Only 90 boats shown as entered on the website, TBH we may have been better off missing Cork week, between prepping the boat, delivery and Cork Week, we miss 3 of the 4 Dublin Regettas, its a shame the various events overlap so much. If we left the boat down there for Calves, we end up missing DBSC races, a bit more thought about the dates and we could have got more regettas in and a little travel also.

Who can we petition to reduce the events overlapping as much as possible?

neris

90 boats only :eek: i remember the days when they trying to get 600 or so. My 1st cork week was 96 and was a decent size event then started to get to big, to expensive and to commercial with hundreds of people coming out from the cork suburbs for a night on the lash and no interest in sailing. Havent been down since 2002 and in no hurry to go do cork week again.

Vexorg

Cork Week was one of our target/milestones when we started on the boat last year, (along with finishing in the top quarter of the DBSC fleet then a first in IRC, a first in Echo, a first in both IRC and Echo) Cork week is another goal.

Lots of people saying that cork week may have lost its way, but its a goal we worked towards and are looking forward to the racing.

HeidiHeidi

One year I was there there were over 500 boats racing - it was bedlam!

Last time I was there everyone - especially the visitors from overseas - were muttering darkly about everything, from beer to food to entry fees to accommodation being a TOTAL rip-off. And the recession was well under way at that point. Cork just seemed to think if they ignored it nobody would notice. Well lots did, and headed for Cowes week or other events the next time. The boats I had previously raced on haven't darkened the start lines down there since. I think that was the last year there were huge numbers.

Having said that, down there was some of the best racing we've ever had - it's incredibly well run, and a fantastic event. It's a shame they can't seem to get the balance right. Maybe they're getting there. I'd love to see it grow back from under 100 boats to a reasonable number - but maybe not 500+ :eek:

Anyway, you'll have a blast, it's a big one to get under your belts, and you'll learn loads.

Enjoy!!

pedroeibar1

Study the tides carefully, particularly on the inshore races. I once blew the feeder race (from Plymouth I think) by getting a bearing wrong and misjudging the tide. Watch the local boats and what they do/where they go to get into / out of the tide. Mind the mud, see if you can get a local (with knowledge!) to crew with you.
Great racing, enjoy it to the full.

miss no stars

90 boats? Why bother with different fleets?




(Look at that mid-line sag!)

Steve

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Study the tides carefully, particularly on the inshore races. I once blew the feeder race (from Plymouth I think) by getting a bearing wrong and misjudging the tide. Watch the local boats and what they do/where they go to get into / out of the tide. Mind the mud, see if you can get a local (with knowledge!) to crew with you.
Great racing, enjoy it to the full.

This.

Only thing I can add is if you hear a competitor with a Cark accent hailing "Don't go in there bai!", don't dismiss it..

Stheno

Steve wrote: »

This.

Only thing I can add is if you hear a competitor with a Cark accent hailing "Don't go in there bai!", don't dismiss it..

Did you have the pleasure of going aground?

HeidiHeidi

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Once upon a time undergarments were crotchless, two piece, each tied to the other around the waist with a ribbon front and back. The can-can dancers in the Offenbach era wore them, (so it was not the underwear the audience went to see.) Katherine Hepburn (?) has a great quote on Sharon Stone that I have to get right before I post.......

Knickers are American, via Dutch.

The things you learn in the Sailing & Boating forum :eek:

HeidiHeidi

Vexorg wrote: »

Only 90 boats shown as entered on the website, TBH we may have been better off missing Cork week, between prepping the boat, delivery and Cork Week, we miss 3 of the 4 Dublin Regettas, its a shame the various events overlap so much. If we left the boat down there for Calves, we end up missing DBSC races, a bit more thought about the dates and we could have got more regettas in and a little travel also.

Who can we petition to reduce the events overlapping as much as possible?

90 boats???

Split into 3 fleets, and minimum 3 classes in each fleet, that's an average of 10 boats per start line, and a lot less on some I'd be guessing. Gawd.

The big-numbers year we were there there were 40 (big!) boats on our start line, we had an absolute Kamikaze nutcase on the bow directing operations during the countdown, the helm had absolute faith in him (and rightly so) - how I didn't have a heart attack that week I will never know.

Small start lines just doesn't seem right for Cork Week somehow!

Did you solve the marks/green knickers conundrums yet?

Steve

Stheno wrote: »

Did you have the pleasure of going aground?

Thankfully no - the boat that was hailed ended up perched on a rock though.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

90 boats???
...
Small start lines just doesn't seem right for Cork Week somehow!

I know.. last time I was there I think they capped the entry at 800 boats. That was the week I swore I'd never go back.
Was talking to some of the visitors at the ICRA's and they thought the same so maybe it's time for the RCYC to look at their marketing of the event.
Sovereigns is usually about 100ish and it's the perfect size event - good craic on and off the water.

HeidiHeidi

Steve wrote: »

Thankfully no - the boat that was hailed ended up perched on a rock though.


I know.. last time I was there I think they capped the entry at 800 boats. That was the week I swore I'd never go back.
Was talking to some of the visitors at the ICRA's and they thought the same so maybe it's time for the RCYC to look at their marketing of the event.
Sovereigns is usually about 100ish and it's the perfect size event - good craic on and off the water.

Nah, 100 far too small - by the time you split it up into all the fleets/classes, it's too tame. You need a bit of harum scarum about these big events.

I reckon about 400 is a nice middle ground - not too big to be unmanageable, but still nice challenging racing.


Might take CW a bit of time to get back up to that level though, given what's happened in the last few years.

ETA - 800 boats :eek: What year was that?

Vexorg

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

90 boats???

Split into 3 fleets, and minimum 3 classes in each fleet, that's an average of 10 boats per start line, and a lot less on some I'd be guessing. Gawd.

The big-numbers year we were there there were 40 (big!) boats on our start line, we had an absolute Kamikaze nutcase on the bow directing operations during the countdown, the helm had absolute faith in him (and rightly so) - how I didn't have a heart attack that week I will never know.

Small start lines just doesn't seem right for Cork Week somehow!

Did you solve the marks/green knickers conundrums yet?

Aye, there was a bigger fleet at the ICRAS, there are 20 boats in White Sails and that is split into 2 fleets, at least we all start together.

I pulled the mark positions from Navionics and one of the guys from the RCYC sent us his personal list of course mark positions. His schedule has 90% of the marks and they pretty much match what I have. There is one mark "EF4" that I cannot find on my charts, but should be able to get any missing info when down there.

I found the SIs for 2012,2010 and 2008 no co ordinates given for the foxed marks.

pedroeibar1

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

The things you learn in the Sailing & Boating forum

Indeed – there is a fount of information here, much of mine is useless but handy on RNLI table quiz nights!

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Did you solve the marks/green knickers conundrums yet?

Poor old Vexorg, have pity on him, he’s still going up and down Paana looking for a Bridget Jones lookalike. (“C’mere, can I see your coordinates?”) He has not got to the bottom of it yet!
For Cork week, 90 is a small entry, it was about that I seem to recall in its earliest days. I think Vexorg is right though (on Cork Week, whatever about his quest for undergarments) – it clashes with too much on the E Coast for Dublin boats, if you are in contention you might need the discards, then missing regattas, crew issues, delivery problems. It’s OK if you plan on leaving the boat in Cork and then going cruising to W Cork for the holidays, but if not………..still, I’m surprised that there are so few DL boats there, none from the George and just a couple from the Irish and National.

HeidiHeidi

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Indeed – there is a fount of information here, much of mine is useless but handy on RNLI table quiz nights!

Poor old Vexorg, have pity on him, he’s still going up and down Paana looking for a Bridget Jones lookalike. (“C’mere, can I see your coordinates?”) He has not got to the bottom of it yet!
For Cork week, 90 is a small entry, it was about that I seem to recall in its earliest days. I think Vexorg is right though (on Cork Week, whatever about his quest for undergarments) – it clashes with too much on the E Coast for Dublin boats, if you are in contention you might need the discards, then missing regattas, crew issues, delivery problems. It’s OK if you plan on leaving the boat in Cork and then going cruising to W Cork for the holidays, but if not………..still, I’m surprised that there are so few DL boats there, none from the George and just a couple from the Irish and National.

We're sailing in Dublin Bay about 12 years now, and the calendar of events has steadily increased every year that we've been out.

I've been on various committees in that time, and have heard through the grapevine of the nightmare it is trying to schedule everything without events clashing. It's as much as they can do to try and organise things so one event serves as a feeder for another.

But with the best will in the world, you'll never make all the big ones, and do DBSC (successfully). Add ISORAs into that mix, and your calendar (and/or head) might explode.

The success of the DL Regatta week I suspect has had a hand in the downturn of Cork Week - when it was the only gig in town boats would travel, but every second year there's DL to do, so I'd guess that Dublin/Leinster based boats - given the logistical problems mentioned - just stay put and do Dublin events.

Stheno

I'm down here the past day, really looking forward to the week now, fantastic atmosphere in crosshaven today

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

I'm down here the past day, really looking forward to the week now, fantastic atmosphere in crosshaven today

Four solid hours of racing today, it hurts.

The pain is everywhere!

HeidiHeidi

Never mind the pain, we all know about the pain - wait till you feel the pain in your head some morning when you forgot to go home the night before, then you'll know pain - how'd ye do???

Stheno

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Never mind the pain, we all know about the pain - wait till you feel the pain in your head some morning when you forgot to go home the night before, then you'll know pain - how'd ye do???

I'm being good, I've been in bed every night by ten o'clock!

Am saving the forgot to go home pain until later in the week.

Twas a weird day, forecast was for light winds, it gusted up to 35 knots!!!

We'd a 19 mile course, with some very long legs, and in around Cobh, the wind was incredibly shifty, saw a couple of broaches/near broaches. It was hard going, we were all tired coming off the boat. Oh and I also discovered the joys of "rafting" where you have to moor beside another boat, we are currently fourth in a long line of boats!

We got around the course ok, despite our GPS going overboard at the second mark (we've an ipad and other tools we also use), and had a super run on a 3 mile beat where we caught up/passed out a fair few boats.

Learned loads about the local conditions (think of the forty foot tidal conditions with knobs on and funny wind), had a great day as a crew, we all worked really hard together, so tomorrow it's onwards and upwards

So one race down and six to go, hopefully we will just get better and better, at the ICRAs that's what happened to us, so fingers crossed

The winning boat had a 17 minute winning margin in our class! Locals who went off on their own on a weird tangent!

Tomorrows forecast is 7-14 which would suit us well, but I'm dubious

Stheno

Btw, there seems to have been something of a sea change in attitude by the club.

Pints are a fiver or less, they've drinks promotions on every night, you can get a decent meal for less than a tenner, and they have a huge amount of staff on.

If I compare it to a DL regatta or the ICRAs I'd say it's on a par or better organisationally tbh.

As there is a shortage of berths, they have a couple of guys on ribs guiding people in as well which is helpful

And I love the little shopping area, that would be great to have at Dublin gigs, presume it's there at the DL regatta? SLAM, MUSTO/GILL/Union all there selling stuff, and then a regular shop with coffee/tea/drinks/sandwiches, and a few takeaway places?

HeidiHeidi

Stheno wrote: »

Btw, there seems to have been something of a sea change in attitude by the club.

Pints are a fiver or less, they've drinks promotions on every night, you can get a decent meal for less than a tenner, and they have a huge amount of staff on.

If I compare it to a DL regatta or the ICRAs I'd say it's on a par or better organisationally tbh.

As there is a shortage of berths, they have a couple of guys on ribs guiding people in as well which is helpful

How can there possibly be a shortage of berths when four (or was it six) years ago they hosted 500+ boats

Stheno

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

How can there possibly be a shortage of berths when four (or was it six) years ago they hosted 500+ boats

No idea, I think they've shortened the marina, but e.g. tonight, we are moored/tied on (don't really know the terminology) to Powder Monkey from DL, who are tied on to another boat, who are tied on to another along the edge of a pontoon.

There are four boats inside us in actual berths. So for the boat most inside in the berth, they need up to six boats to move first, yesterday we had to physically haul a boat out of the way to be able to get out!

It must have been utter madness with 500+ boats, there are about 125 this year.

HeidiHeidi

Stheno wrote: »

No idea, I think they've shortened the marina, but e.g. tonight, we are moored/tied on (don't really know the terminology) to Powder Monkey from DL, who are tied on to another boat, who are tied on to another along the edge of a pontoon.

There are four boats inside us in actual berths. So for the boat most inside in the berth, they need up to six boats to move first, yesterday we had to physically haul a boat out of the way to be able to get out!

It must have been utter madness with 500+ boats, there are about 125 this year.

There must have been rafts 10 deep when we were there, the biggest were the ones up the middle of the fairways. Rafts are normal at those big events. You get very good at extracting yourself from the middle/inside of one when the outside boats have been on the beer too long the night before and can't be woken