Hearthstone Tournament not allowing women to enter.

Lyaiera

tritium wrote: »

Oh right, its because they solved the 50% of the problem you give a sh1t about and you're fine with having your little women only segment. Did you ever consider its also sexist to women to having a women only category since it implies they need a special area just for themselves for some reason?

Should I go and check my privelige now......

VinLieger wrote: »

So sexism by exclusion in the other direction is fine? Typical feminist blindness to every day misandry at work

Do you want a catalogue of abuse women have to put up with in gaming? What about gaming in professional games' tournaments? You can argue all you want that men have it worse but it's bollocks. There's a reason why there are women only sections that you'd understand if you spent even an hour online gaming as a woman. You only have to read this thread to see that.

If the main tournament is open to everyone then I don't see the problem. Instead you want to see this all as a zero sum game, which just doesn't apply to life.

VinLieger

Lyaiera wrote: »

Do you want a catalogue of abuse women have to put up with in gaming? What about gaming in professional games' tournaments? You can argue all you want that men have it worse but it's bollocks. There's a reason why there are women only sections that you'd understand if you spent even an hour online gaming as a woman. You only have to read this thread to see that.

If the main tournament is open to everyone then I don't see the problem. Instead you want to see this all as a zero sum game, which just doesn't apply to life.

I know all about the abuse women receive in gaming but this is nowhere near a solution and just gives the retards who cause all the hassle more ammo.

There should simply be one main tournament open to everyone still having a womens only section baffles me and surely is insulting to women as it basically says "oh yeah if you think you can compete with the men go ahead but for anyone whos to scared theres still the womens category you can hide in"

Also where did I say men have it worse? I just said that sexism via exclusions is only a problem when it s against women which shows the complete blindness to the everyday misandry that goes on, not that its worse for men just that it happens as well but nobody seems to care beacuse its all about which sex wins over the other and not about equality.

Davarus Walrus

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite. What's really funny is looking at a group of fat men throwing a dart at a board and thinking it's a sport.... It can be said for anything. Ridiculous

I agree that darts isn't a sport. I will say that watching fat men throw darts at a board is far more entertaining than watching fat men playing a game in a virtual world calling themselves Hercules Strongsword and casting spells.

shruikan2553

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

I agree that darts isn't a sport. I will say that watching fat men throw darts at a board is far more entertaining than watching fat men playing a game in a virtual world calling themselves Hercules Strongsword and casting spells.

Then don't watch it. I find them both and men in shorts running around to be boring so I watch none of them. It is a really simple solution.

Grayson

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

LOL. Yeh I played them to mate, played battlefield very competitively to and was in the top 10 of greatest players in BF:V. Warcraft not a computer game... Christ...

It's not a proper game. It's like comparing the sims to starcraft or farmville to battlefield.

They're games that are about grinding, not skill. that's why kiddies play them.

shruikan2553

Grayson wrote: »

It's not a proper game. It's like comparing the sims to starcraft or farmville to battlefield.

They're games that are about grinding, not skill. that's why kiddies play them.

Define a proper game. Is it just the ones you play?

Shanotheslayer

Grayson wrote: »

It's not a proper game. It's like comparing the sims to starcraft or farmville to battlefield.

They're games that are about grinding, not skill. that's why kiddies play them.

Lol you never played old school wow then. I quit a awhile back as now it's more gear than skill. But skill involved. But doing a 25man raid with kids? Yeh no skill involved your right!...

Grayson

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Define a proper game. Is it just the ones you play?

I defined a proper game. An FPS or RTS. MMO's need very little skill compared to either of them. MMO's need people to spend hours grinding away at stupid tasks.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy a bit of GTA 5 online (And let's face it, it's pretty much an MMO) and I'll even admit that I'm amazed at the technical specs of an MMO. It takes so much to create an interactive environment for a million plus people, but they're still just versions of second life.

Shanotheslayer

Grayson wrote: »

I defined a proper game. An FPS or RTS. MMO's need very little skill compared to either of them. MMO's need people to spend hours grinding away at stupid tasks.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy a bit of GTA 5 online (And let's face it, it's pretty much an MMO) and I'll even admit that I'm amazed at the technical specs of an MMO. It takes so much to create an interactive environment for a million plus people, but they're still just versions of second life.

Just because those type of games have more skill to play doesn't mean skill is involved in mmos.

tritium

Lyaiera wrote: »

Do you want a catalogue of abuse women have to put up with in gaming? What about gaming in professional games' tournaments? You can argue all you want that men have it worse but it's bollocks. There's a reason why there are women only sections that you'd understand if you spent even an hour online gaming as a woman. You only have to read this thread to see that.

If the main tournament is open to everyone then I don't see the problem. Instead you want to see this all as a zero sum game, which just doesn't apply to life.

Well hope you enjoyed that rant....

So once the main tournament is open to everyone you don't see the problem. But you did see a problem if the main tournament is open but there's a men only section?

Riiighhht. Very progressive!

BTW, where did I sat men have it worse. I said its sexist. Which it is. No amount of femsplaining on your behalf will change that.

VinLieger

Grayson wrote: »

I defined a proper game. An FPS or RTS. MMO's need very little skill compared to either of them. MMO's need people to spend hours grinding away at stupid tasks.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy a bit of GTA 5 online (And let's face it, it's pretty much an MMO) and I'll even admit that I'm amazed at the technical specs of an MMO. It takes so much to create an interactive environment for a million plus people, but they're still just versions of second life.

Ohh my god get over yourself, some people like different games so stop trying to be so superior.

Grayson

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Lol you never played old school wow then. I quit a awhile back as now it's more gear than skill. But skill involved. But doing a 25man raid with kids? Yeh no skill involved your right!...

I played WoW. I even played Ultima. Hell, I played MUD's (anyone remember thunderdome or apocalypse MUD) and MUSE's (Anyone remember the BTECH 2056 Muse) pre Mosaic and Netscape. I've been playing online games longer than most people.

But they are not proper games.

Links234

TheZohan wrote: »

Why don't you start your own tournament?

With blackjack and hookers?

Seriously though, those tournaments are big things, with sponsors, live streaming, and in some cases they can be televised. Setting up one of your own isn't exactly going to be easy, and very few people would be able to do something like that, as opposed to simply wanting inclusion in the established tournaments which is a more more achievable goal. Then they work on the blackjack and hookers.

Shanotheslayer

Grayson wrote: »

I played WoW. I even played Ultima. Hell, I played MUD's (anyone remember thunderdome or apocalypse MUD) and MUSE's (Anyone remember the BTECH 2056 Muse) pre Mosaic and Netscape. I've been playing online games longer than most people.

But they are not proper games.

I never played them so can't comment. But to say wow isn't a proper game is so stupid. Is FIFA a proper game?

shruikan2553

Grayson wrote: »

I defined a proper game. An FPS or RTS. MMO's need very little skill compared to either of them. MMO's need people to spend hours grinding away at stupid tasks.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy a bit of GTA 5 online (And let's face it, it's pretty much an MMO) and I'll even admit that I'm amazed at the technical specs of an MMO. It takes so much to create an interactive environment for a million plus people, but they're still just versions of second life.

FPS and RTS are just genres of games. Skill has nothing to do with if a game is one or not. I can play an FPS or RTS on the easiest difficulty or the hardest. One would require "skill" while the other wouldn't. It is still the same game with just a few numbers changed in the background. An RPG on the hardest difficulty or a heroic raid in WoW need more skill than the average FPS game. Consoles do most of the aiming for you. Are they only games on PC?

Grayson

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohh my god get over yourself, some people like different games so stop trying to be so superior.

Get over myself? I said i played these games (and enjoyed them) but disagreed with their status.

I'm the person who's judging people here?

maki

Grayson wrote: »

I played WoW. I even played Ultima. Hell, I played MUD's (anyone remember thunderdome or apocalypse MUD) and MUSE's (Anyone remember the BTECH 2056 Muse) pre Mosaic and Netscape. I've been playing online games longer than most people.

But they are not proper games.

So "proper" games are exclusively games that have a high skill ceiling?
Proper games can't just be games that people enjoy, no?

It's like saying that my car isn't a proper car because some other car requires more skill to drive.

VinLieger

Grayson wrote: »

I played WoW. I even played Ultima. Hell, I played MUD's (anyone remember thunderdome or apocalypse MUD) and MUSE's (Anyone remember the BTECH 2056 Muse) pre Mosaic and Netscape. I've been playing online games longer than most people.

But they are not proper games.

"proper games" seriously what fvcking planet are you living on?

Are tabletop games "proper games" are chasing games kids play in schools "proper games"?

Yes of course they are cus people PLAY them, your a weird kinda snob who is really just pissed more people are playing games nowadays and your precious niche group isnt so exclusive anymore because theres more games out there that previously people who wouldnt be considered traditional gamers are now getting interested in.

Links234

Grayson wrote: »

Get over myself? I said i played these games (and enjoyed them) but disagreed with their status.

I'm the person who's judging people here?

You just said they're games, argument over, you lose

VinLieger

Grayson wrote: »

Get over myself? I said i played these games (and enjoyed them) but disagreed with their status.

I'm the person who's judging people here?

And who are you to judge their status? If people enjoy them then thats fine isn't it?

Why do you need to make disparraging remarks about the games and thus insult the people who play them?

Grayson

shruikan2553 wrote: »

FPS and RTS are just genres of games. Skill has nothing to do with if a game is one or not. I can play an FPS or RTS on the easiest difficulty or the hardest. One would require "skill" while the other wouldn't. It is still the same game with just a few numbers changed in the background. An RPG on the hardest difficulty or a heroic raid in WoW need more skill than the average FPS game. Consoles do most of the aiming for you. Are they only games on PC?

We weren't talking single player here. the whole thread has been about competitive online play. And it's unfair to compare online MMO's with single player FPS on easy level.

The level of difficulty with playing an MMO online Vs something like counterstrike (or even CoD) is very different. Counterstrike has such a huge learning curve it's ridiculous.

Grayson

VinLieger wrote: »

And who are you to judge their status? If people enjoy them then thats fine isn't it?

Why do you need to make disparraging remarks about the games and thus insult the people who play them?

I said I played them. Are you even reading what I'm saying or are you just trolling or are you just a bit slow.

Akrasia

astrofool wrote: »

If they want it to be a sport, then it's unfortunately necessary, all sports are segregated, unless it's specifically a "mixed" sport, e.g. mixed doubles in tennis. If they can get it accepted as a sport at all, then they can also add mixed categories.

Poker is a 'sport' just as much as competitive gaming is a sport, and women are allowed to play in any tournament and there is no shame in 'losing to a girl'

Links234

I generally prefer a good single player, story driven experience myself, am I playing real games? Or just cheese toasties cleverly disguised as games?

Grayson

Links234 wrote: »

You just said they're games, argument over, you lose

I said nad ment proper games. If you're going to start being pedantic then just start correcting my typing mistakes. You'll get just as much fun (And I'm a terrible typist, you'll have plenty to do)

Grayson

Links234 wrote: »

I generally prefer a good single player, story driven experience myself, am I playing real games? Or just cheese toasties cleverly disguised as games?

Once again, this thread was about competitive play. If you want we can start talking about solitaire. Is that enough of a deviation for you?

shruikan2553

Grayson wrote: »

We weren't talking single player here. the whole thread has been about competitive online play. And it's unfair to compare online MMO's with single player FPS on easy level.

The level of difficulty with playing an MMO online Vs something like counterstrike (or even CoD) is very different. Counterstrike has such a huge learning curve it's ridiculous.

So if it isn't competitive online it is a game but if it is and doesn't meet your standards it isn't?

And yet a counter strike player wouldn't survive 5 seconds in WoW arena, WoW or LoL in counter strike or CoD or a LoL player in WoW. How do we know which is more difficult?

Links234

Grayson wrote: »

Once again, this thread was about competitive play. If you want we can start talking about solitaire. Is that enough of a deviation for you?

You started the deviation when you started banging on about what "Real" games are and aren't. And I've no reason to pick at your spelling, only your crappy argument.

Mr. CooL ICE

People, stop arguing. Settle this over a game of candy crush saga

Grayson

Links234 wrote: »

You started the deviation when you started banging on about what "Real" games are and aren't. And I've no reason to pick at your spelling, only your crappy argument.

So if someone says something that deviates slightly from the thread than it's acceptable to take what they said and make sh1t up? If you want to attack what I said, go ahead, but try to do it by actually tackling the subject.

Don't pretend I said stuff I didn't. That's just making up lies.

The conversation was about online competitive play. That's what the thread was about.

VinLieger

Grayson wrote: »

I said I played them. Are you even reading what I'm saying or are you just trolling or are you just a bit slow.

Doesnt mean you can't be called on such a ridiculous sweeping statement like that which you as of yet have been completely unable to backup with any real facts.

Also resorting to insulting people who don't agree with you is an act of desperation

kylith

Grayson wrote: »

Once again, this thread was about competitive play. If you want we can start talking about solitaire. Is that enough of a deviation for you?

You don't get to dictate what's a 'real' game and what's not. If direct competition is your benchmark then half the sports in the Olympics aren't 'real' sports by that criterion.

By which I mean Solitaire can be considered a game as much as diving can be considered a sport - you are not in direct competition with anyone but the game/sport can be played competitively by a ranking system based on individual scores.

I prefer something like Arkham Asylum to WoW, but I certainly wouldn't be dickish enough to suggest that one isn't a 'real' game based on nothing but my own preference.

Grayson

shruikan2553 wrote: »

So if it isn't competitive online it is a game but if it is and doesn't meet your standards it isn't?

And yet a counter strike player wouldn't survive 5 seconds in WoW arena, WoW or LoL in counter strike or CoD or a LoL player in WoW. How do we know which is more difficult?

Did you even read what I said?

I said that the learning curve was very different. Obviously if you put an experienced gamer from one genre into another game where they didn't know any control systems, and then placed them up against an experienced gamer, they'd get their arses kicked.

That's obvious.

That however is completely avoiding/ignoring what I said. The learning curve is far higher in a FPS/RTS. It's possible to reach a decent standard of play in a MMO far quicker than in an FPS/RTS.

shruikan2553

Grayson wrote: »

Did you even read what I said?

I said that the learning curve was very different. Obviously if you put an experienced gamer from one genre into another game where they didn't know any control systems, and then placed them up against an experienced gamer, they'd get their arses kicked.

That's obvious.

That however is completely avoiding/ignoring what I said. The learning curve is far higher in a FPS/RTS. It's possible to reach a decent standard of play in a MMO far quicker than in an FPS/RTS.

Says who? Different games in different genres have very different learning curves. Quake has a huge learning curve compared to CoD. Does that mean CoD isn't a game?

Grayson

VinLieger wrote: »

Doesnt mean you can't be called on such a ridiculous sweeping statement like that which you as of yet have been completely unable to backup with any real facts.

Also resorting to insulting people who don't agree with you is an act of desperation

I'm not "resorting to insulting" people.

You said that I was insulting people who play these games. I pointed out that I had said that I'd played them. How am I insulting people who play them? I've said I play them and that they're enjoyable. I'm certainly not looking down at anyone.

I'm saying that there is a huge skill difference in them.

Now, you can take that as an insult if you want. but that's saying more about you than it is about me.

BeerWolf

Grayson wrote: »

The conversation was about online competitive play. That's what the thread was about.

Just because a certain game or genre is more mainstream than another, doesn't mean other games can't be competitive...

You can get something as basic, at a competitive level, as finishing a game as quickly as possible... example -- Speed running through Super Mario Bros.

Your arguments against, example, MMOS were strictly on the "grind" nature of LEVELING in them... PvP is generally done at the maxed out level - all competitive play are done at those levels.

While generic PvP is often too focused on "Better Gear generally wins", this is generally just casual PvP... at competitive level, people are equally geared and this is where actual 'skill' comes into play, knowing when to interrupt, knowing when to fake cast, avoid hits through line of sight...etc etc etc, and in particular, the amount of skills to manage at your disposal while constantly moving about and facing wherever while keeping eyes on cooldowns and such... there's a lot more thought process required than a basic FPS like Counter Strike and CoD --- those games generally fall down to roughly knowing where the enemy's at, and aim... and little else to worry about.

I absolutely sucked at PvP in WoW, but I'm above average when it comes to FPS - but I prefer MMOs and MOBA in general.

As people have already said numerous times, that you seem to ignore... you can get people of various skills at all types of games. A great CoD player would suck balls in LoL. Great LoL player in WoW. WoW player in CS, etc.

Lyaiera

Grayson wrote: »

It's not a proper game.

Yeah. All about the difficulty.

Shanotheslayer

BeerWolf wrote: »

Just because a certain game or genre is more mainstream than another, doesn't mean other games can't be competitive...

You can get something as basic, at a competitive level, as finishing a game as quickly as possible... example -- Speed running through Super Mario Bros.

Your arguments against, example, MMOS were strictly on the "grind" nature of LEVELING in them... PvP is generally done at the maxed out level - all competitive play are done at those levels.

While generic PvP is often too focused on "Better Gear generally wins", this is generally just casual PvP... at competitive level, people are equally geared and this is where actual 'skill' comes into play, knowing when to interrupt, knowing when to fake cast, avoid hits through line of sight... in particular, the amount of skills to manage at your disposal while constantly moving about and facing wherever while keeping eyes on cooldowns and such... there's a lot more thought process required than a basic FPS like Counter Strike and CoD --- those games generally fall down to roughly knowing where the enemy's at, and aim...

I absolutely sucked at PvP in WoW, but I'm above average when it comes to FPS - but I prefer MMOs in general.

Stop making me want to play wow again:(

B0jangles

Lyaiera wrote: »

Yeah. All about the difficulty.

Yeah, In my opinion you're not a Real Gamer unless you are able to play CS at the competitive level just using a trackball.


:cool:

Grayson

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Says who? Different games in different genres have very different learning curves. Quake has a huge learning curve compared to CoD. Does that mean CoD isn't a game?

No, but it means that Quake is a harder game and that you can't compare people who play the two games. Especially if it's console Vs PC. PC FPS are far, far harder online than console games. Even if it's the same game on both.
I can't even understand how someone could play an RTS on a console.

But no matter what the system used, FPS and RTS are still far harder to master, or even become proficient in, than a MMO.

Grayson

B0jangles wrote: »

Yeah, In my opinion you're not a Real Gamer unless you are able to play CS at the competitive level just using a trackball.


:cool:

I knew someone who played like that. He was an asshole

shruikan2553

Grayson wrote: »

No, but it means that Quake is a harder game and that you can't compare people who play the two games. Especially if it's console Vs PC. PC FPS are far, far harder online than console games. Even if it's the same game on both.
I can't even understand how someone could play an RTS on a console.

But no matter what the system used, FPS and RTS are still far harder to master, or even become proficient in, than a MMO.

And how does that affect whether or not they are games?

BeerWolf

B0jangles wrote: »

Yeah, In my opinion you're not a Real Gamer unless you are able to play CS at the competitive level just using a trackball.


:cool:

Hah - had to play FPS games for a week once using this:

LINK

:pac:

Warper

Proper order, if there was a thing called the Men's Mini Marathon imagine the outroar

anncoates

Internecine gender wars between people that play competitive computer games.

Who needs sleeping pills.

VinLieger

Grayson wrote: »

But no matter what the system used, FPS and RTS are still far harder to master, or even become proficient in, than a MMO.

For you maybe but there are no facts anywhere to back this up. What is a fact is some people have better hand eye coordination and reactions making FPS easier, some people have more tactical thinking and can handle multiple problems at a time making RTS easier, some people also can command a large group of people in competitive pvp easier, they can then command a group of people better than another group and win that way.

Also previously where i said you were insulting people I was refferring to me when you insinuated I was slow for not understanding your point, but in reality your just completely missing the point everyone else is trying to make against your argument.

B0jangles

VinLieger wrote: »

For you maybe but there are no facts anywhere to back this up. What is a fact is some people have better hand eye coordination and reactions making FPS easier, some people have more tactical thinking and can handle multiple problems at a time making RTS easier, some people also can command a large group of people in competitive pvp easier, they can then command a group of people better than another group and win that way.
.

So true - I used to be pretty damn good back in the day at PC FPS's like CS, UT, DoD and the rest of that generation, but I am fecking terrible at RTS's.

--LOS--

If more women played games they would be better than guys, coz everyone knows that guys can't multi-task, while we're generalising and all.......

Tar.Aldarion

This was already reversed due to the backlash, women can play in all the previous male tournaments
http://ie-sf.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=iesf_notice&wr_id=105

For years there have been women only tournaments btw

Grayson

VinLieger wrote: »

Also previously where i said you were insulting people I was refferring to me when you insinuated I was slow for not understanding your point, but in reality your just completely missing the point everyone else is trying to make against your argument.

You said i was insulting people who play those games when i had said that I myself play those games. You were not making sense. I pointed it out.