Brazil vs. Colombia (QF2) 21:00, 4 July

eyescreamcone

twinytwo wrote: »

It easy to say " their duty is to win games" .... Its a little more than that. As the current Brazilian team they have a national football heritage to protect.

Winning for the sake of winning kinda makes the whole idea of sport pointless.

What's wrong with playing to win?

Nobody plays like Brazil 70 anymore - nobody has the players for one, and nobody will commit so many players to attack as today you'd be murdered on the counter.

So new systems have to be found to defeat physically stronger and more intelligent opponents than Brazil 70 had to play.

The beauty of watching and playing the game is in assessing your opponents and finding the weak spots and exploiting them in order to beat them

Henry9

Nothing wrong with playing to win.
But if your strategy includes cynically trying to kick your biggest threat out of the game, you can't complain if you get some of your own medicine.

Benimar

Brazil have appealed Thiago Silvas yellow card! I can only imagine the insinuations if it's overturned. Surely even FIFA can't be that blatant??

Pudsy33

I thought you couldn't appeal a yellow? No way will it be overturned anyway, it was as blatant as they come.

Benimar

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I thought you couldn't appeal a yellow? No way will it be overturned anyway, it was as blatant as they come.

That's my understanding too. Hasn't stopped them appealing though. As you say, even if it could be appealed it was a blatant yellow.

Billy86

Benimar wrote: »

Brazil have appealed Thiago Silvas yellow card! I can only imagine the insinuations if it's overturned. Surely even FIFA can't be that blatant??

They can and they will. Might send a vague warning statement to referees as well. I wish I was joking.

Pro. F

In light of the fact that Neymar wasn't able to feel his legs after the knock he took (Guardian report), does anybody else find his treatment by the stretcher bearers as insane? The doctor couldn't get on the pitch for some reason (which also seems incredible to me) and so the stretcher bearers just lumped him on to the stretcher and ran off the pitch - no spinal board, no brace, no checks, nothing.

Eirebear

Irish fans, mostly, who support English teams, mostly, arguing in OTT anger about Brazil's 'football history'.

Ya know what lads, those Brazilians who regularly go to the beach probably still 'learn their skills there'. It just so happens the beach doesn't immediately grant them flair.

They're in the semis and deservedly so.
Get over it.

jmayo

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I also grew up watching Brazil play and don't enjoy the current version. However they have deserved to win every ģame they have played so far apart from maybe the Croatia game it's effective but not pretty. I'm taking issue with people having the blinkers on watching the game. I still hope Brazil win it as i always will once ireland arent there but if they don't as a number of Brazilians said to me when I was over there it will also be a good thing as it may force them to go back to their roots.The real shyte as u put it in this thread is spouted by the people that believe there is a conspiracy at play.France and Colombia were impressive up till yesterday but hadn't faced any team of note no surprise when the standard was raised they struggled.Brazil deserve to be in the semis but I think they will struggle to win it without neymar.

There is always a conspiracy of some sort at play to make sure the home team gets as far as possible (helps keep the local interest in the matches) and it becomes even more important when that home team is one of the big football nations.
I would bet in every world cup the home host team have enjoyed advantages.
Italy, England, Argentina had home WC wins with some questionable referring and games.

The other night a referee who normally hands out cards chose to completly ignore dirty tackles and persistent fouling for most of the game.
And who benefitted primarily from those decisions not to hand out cards, the home team because they were the ones dishing out most of it.

Eventually the exasperated Columbian players started dishing it out as well.

It would have been very blatant favouritism if the ref started just dishing out cards to Columbians after ignoring the persistent stuff carried out by Brazilians for most of the night.
So he decided to let things slide for the most part.

The laugh now is that Brazil are looking for Zuniga to be retrospectively punished while at the same time looking for the pure cynicism of Silva to be ignored and him be allowed play in the semi.
One can never rule out FIFA finding some way to facilitate the bigs boys.

Oh and before anyone says sure that is FIFA, it can happen in some other sports and in one in particular which has a habit of looking down it's nose at soccer and FIFA.
Just ask the French about the last rugby world cup final.
Some very pathetic one sided referring benefitted the home side on that occassion to help them win.
Coincidence that the head of referring was also from the home nation.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What's wrong with playing to win?

Nobody plays like Brazil 70 anymore - nobody has the players for one, and nobody will commit so many players to attack as today you'd be murdered on the counter.

So new systems have to be found to defeat physically stronger and more intelligent opponents than Brazil 70 had to play.

The beauty of watching and playing the game is in assessing your opponents and finding the weak spots and exploiting them in order to beat them

Ahh FFS they don't have to try and play like the 70 or 82 side, they don't have the players and as you said they would be crucified if they defended like 82.
But FFS they have some alright players, at least the football world thinks so going on the transfer fees being paid out for them and the clubs they are playing for, who shouldn't have to resort to hoofing the ball down the pitch ala Vinnie Jones and Lawrie Sanchez.

eyescreamcone

I can't remember Vinnie Jones qualifying for a world cup semi

Iused2likebusts

jmayo wrote: »

There is always a conspiracy of some sort at play to make sure the home team gets as far as possible (helps keep the local interest in the matches) and it becomes even more important when that home team is one of the big football nations.
I would bet in every world cup the home host team have enjoyed advantages.
Italy, England, Argentina had home WC wins with some questionable referring and games.

The other night a referee who normally hands out cards chose to completly ignore dirty tackles and persistent fouling for most of the game.
And who benefitted primarily from those decisions not to hand out cards, the home team because they were the ones dishing out most of it.

Eventually the exasperated Columbian players started dishing it out as well.

It would have been very blatant favouritism if the ref started just dishing out cards to Columbians after ignoring the persistent stuff carried out by Brazilians for most of the night.

So what are you saying is that sepp blatter or someone from Fifa met the referee before the game and said if brazil decide to start kicking the colombians ignore it. Also dont book thiago silva or neymar cause we need them to play in the semi final. Dont give those colombians any decisions like the free kick at the edge of the box that never was or the corner that never was. You see far worse refereing performances in the PL every week where the decisions have a tangible effect on the outcome. Players being harshly sent off, penalties been given for little or nothing. Yes you can argue that brazil slightly benefitted from the referee not booking players but he still gave free kicks atleast 90% of the time. Why did sepp and the boys not have a word with Howard Webb before the Chile game? The Home team tends to get slightly more decisions in every league around the world its a fact of life and nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

jmayo

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I can't remember Vinnie Jones qualifying for a world cup semi

And that is the fooking point.

Vinnie Jones wasn't luaded as one of the top world players in his position, he wasn't playing for one the top clubs in a country and he wasn't moving to other top clubs for huge transfer fees.
Yet most of the Brazilians are and yet particularly the other night appear to resort to Vinnie Jones' football.

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

So what are you saying is that sepp blatter or someone from Fifa met the referee before the game and said if brazil decide to start kicking the colombians ignore it.

Ok then please give us an explanantion why a referee who normally hands out cards chose to ignore persistent and often very bookable fouls for most of the match ?
And please don't be so facetious to actually try and spin it that Blatter contacted the ref directly.
Things have moved along somewhat since Mussolini took the ref to dinner the night before matches.

This ref wasn't some inexperienced yoko who they found wandering the streets of some backwater football nation.
Yet that was how he reffed the bloody match.

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Also dont book thiago silva or neymar cause we need them to play in the semi final.

Well Neymar did get away with a red card offense in first match and Silva did tackle from behind a couple of times before he ever got a card the other night for a very cynical block into the keeper.
Having a go at a keeper was probably a step too far even for this ref.

Iused2likebusts

jmayo wrote: »

And that is the fooking point.

Vinnie Jones wasn't luaded as one of the top world players in his position, he wasn't playing for one the top clubs in a country and he wasn't moving to other top clubs for huge transfer fees.
Yet most of the Brazilians are and yet particularly the other night appear to resort to Vinnie Jones' football.



Ok then please give us an explanantion why a referee who normally hands out cards chose to ignore persistent and often very bookable fouls for most of the match ?
And please don't be so facetious to actually try and spin it that Blatter contacted the ref directly.
Things have moved along somewhat since Mussolini took the ref to dinner the night before matches.

This ref wasn't some inexperienced yoko who they found wandering the streets of some backwater football nation.
Yet that was how he reffed the bloody match.



Well Neymar did get away with a red card offense in first match and Silva did tackle from behind a couple of times before he ever got a card the other night for a very cynical block into the keeper.
Having a go at a keeper was probably a step too far even for this ref.

For me it's quite noticeable that officials have been letting a lot more things than usual go at this world cup. I do think this particular game way too many things were let go but both teams were at it and both teams got away it. If you really believe this conspiracy thing why did Fifa allow the game against chile to go as far as pens. Brazil if the competition was fixed wud have had a peno in the first half and hulks goal wud have stood. The ref was consistent the other night consistently bad but he didn't make any decision that had a real tangible affect on the outcome.

Corholio

Colombia should have had 2 straight red cards in that game, Brazil maybe should have the same with an accumulation of cards. Colombia had the worse individual fouls and actually didn't play very well at all.

But those conspiracy theories eh...

eyescreamcone

Jmayo - Brazil are in the semis playing the type of ball necessary to get them there. Sometimes it isn't pretty, but so far it has been effective.

Vinny Jones wouldn't be good enough to carry the water bottles for any Brazil side (or any international team) - let alone a WC semi team!