Netherlands vs. Costa Rica (QF4) 21:00, 5 July

Cypher_sounds

Pro. F wrote: »

I think the keeper shouting in the penalty taker's face before their kick is grossly unsporting. It's not against the rules currently so they should change the rules.

The refs don't seem to mind players shouting in their face much after a decision so i can't imagine anyone minding a bit of shouting from keepers at other professional players.

Pyjamarama

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Thank you for that amazing nugget. Your withering intellect is truly overpowering.



Here's more of this patronising BS. Vast Technical supremacy my ass. This is probably the most balanced World Cup ever. None of the traditional powers in world football have really stood out or impressed.

Costa Rica beat Uruguay.
Costa Rica beat Italy.
Costa Rica a very comfortable draw with England.
Costa Rica knocked Greece out on penalties.

Do you think the Dutch were vastly more technical superior than any of the above opponents Cost Rica played? The answer is obvious, no of course they weren't. As I already said, in the dying minutes of the game we saw flashes of what might have been. Costa Rica simply game planned wrong and they paid the price.

Uruguay had no Suarez, Italy were physically drained from playing their 1st game in a sauna and likely took the gZme for granted and got caught, the England match was a dead rubber. Greece are poisonous anti football. I'm not belittling what Costa Rica have done but there is no way you can justify them coming out and "having a go" tm RTE against a team who are clearly man for man far superior. Especially when you take into account that the Greece match went to extra time.

I thought they approached the game in the best possible way to give them a chance to go through. It's not like they just shut up shop, they attempted to counter but with control.

Pro. F

Augmerson wrote: »

Getting a controversial penalty against Mexico and going to penalties against Costa Rica isn't exactly how you blast you're way to the WC final in glory but the Dutch are still in the Semi's all the same. I think they've been a little bit fortunate with the opposition they've come up against but you can only play who is infront of you. The Mexicans and Costa Ricans were good enough to get out of their groups in any case.

I suspect the Dutch might have had two of the harder knockout opponents so far.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

I think the keeper shouting in the penalty taker's face before their kick is grossly unsporting. It's not against the rules currently so they should change the rules.

Would you change it just at shootouts or at anytime during the game?

The best thing a pen taker can do is blast it into the net and laugh at the keeper.

Pyjamarama

Pro. F wrote: »

I suspect the Dutch might have had two of the harder knockout opponents so far.

Chile + Colombia, Switzerland + Belgium, Algeria + France...

Are you mental? They had the easiest by far!!!

Son Of A Vidic

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I'm not belittling what Costa Rica have done

Yet ironically with those series of excuses, you just did.

Pro. F

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

The refs don't seem to mind players shouting in their face much after a decision so i can't imagine anyone minding a bit of shouting from keepers at other professional players.

The fact that the people who decide the laws of football are idiots is the issue. The referees do mind players shouting in their faces, it is a horrible job. But the law makers have never bothered themselves to address the situation. That's why there is so much grossly unsporting spectacle in modern football.

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

Would you change it just at shootouts or at anytime during the game?

The best thing a pen taker can do is blast it into the net and laugh at the keeper.

Just during shootouts as that's when the keeper has such a massive advantage in terms of pressure, ie there is shag all pressure on the keeper to achieve anything.

What is currently the best response for the penalty taker is irrelevant.

Players will always try to gain an edge even though it might be unsightly to some.

When players walk past each other to take a penalty you can be sure things are said out of sight of the camera.

It's because Krul was seen doing it that people are outraged.

Pyjamarama

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yet ironically with those series of excuses, you just did.

Not remotely. They played well and worked hard. That doesn't mean they're anything more than an a decent side. Luck is an important part of tournament success and I feel they got a large chunk of it this year. It's not patronising bs, as you called it, to congratulate a team on going beyond expectations but also realising that they have limitations and that there are more factors involved in the success than just going out and trying to out play teams that are superior.

Cypher_sounds

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that the people who decide the laws of football are idiots is the issue. The referees do mind players shouting in their faces, it is a horrible job. But the law makers have never bothered themselves to address the situation. That's why there is so much grossly unsporting spectacle in modern football.

I agree, referees and assistant refs need to be give far more power than they are allowed at the moment.
Dissent should not be tolerated. The rules don't allow referees to be respected by the players, in fact id say players respect other players more than they respect referees which tells its own story.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Just during shootouts as that's when the keeper has such a massive advantage in terms of pressure, ie there is shag all pressure on the keeper to achieve anything.

What is currently the best response for the penalty taker is irrelevant.

The keeper has a massive advantage in terms of pressure but a big disadvantage in terms of the actual penalty. I'd imagine that would be their defense

Zico

Pro. F wrote: »

I think the keeper shouting in the penalty taker's face before their kick is grossly unsporting. It's not against the rules currently so they should change the rules.

There are a lot of other nasty things players get away with which I'd be more concerned about than sledging a penalty taker.

I don't know why people are suddenly making an issue of it. I don't even think it has an effect. Mexico were doing the same to Huntelaar and Brazil did the same with Rodriguez and they somehow scored.

What next tell the crowd not whistle or boo?

Ridiculous thing to be moaning about.:rolleyes:

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

Players will always try to gain an edge even though it might be unsightly to some.

When players walk past each other to take a penalty you can be sure things are said out of sight of the camera.

It's because Krul was seen doing it that people are outraged.

Yes it's because Krul made a spectacle out of his unsporting behaviour. Krul wouldn't have done it if it was a cardable offence.

weisses

NIMAN wrote: »

One thing thats obvious, Robben is the Dutch main man, not RvP.

And I'm wondering what is Robben doing these days? He is SUPER fit, almost superhuman (wink wink). For a man that was a crock early in his career he is the opposite of all aging players, he is getting fitter, faster and stronger.

Makes you wonder.

He also goes to an osteopath in the Netherlands

Son Of A Vidic

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Not remotely. They played well and worked hard. That doesn't mean they're anything more than an a decent side. Luck is an important part of tournament success and I feel they got a large chunk of it this year. It's not patronising bs, as you called it, to congratulate a team on going beyond expectations but also realising that they have limitations and that there are more factors involved in the success than just going out and trying to out play teams that are superior.

If nothing else, this World Cup should have clearly shown that it has becoming a very level playing field at the top. The gaps between the traditional powers and the emerging nations has narrowed significantly. Cost Rica just gave Holland too much respect last night imo.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes it's because Krul made a spectacle out of his unsporting behaviour. Krul wouldn't have done it if it was a cardable offence.

He might have but only to one player!

Augmerson

Pro. F wrote: »

I suspect the Dutch might have had two of the harder knockout opponents so far.

I disagree with that.

Pyjamarama

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

If nothing else, this World Cup should have clearly shown that it has becoming a very level playing field at the top. The gaps between the traditional powers and the emerging nations has narrowed significantly. Cost Rica just gave Holland too much respect last night imo.

People keep saying that but as far as I can tell it's Germany, Netherlands, Argentina and Brazil in the semis. All historical powerhouses. Just cause Spain and Italy had bad campaigns doesn't mean everything is changing. They'll both likely be back in the mix next time.

NIMAN

As much as people are defending Krul's actions, I think it went against what has been a generally very sporting WC up to now (minus the ill-tempered Brazil v Colombia game).

Watching most of the games I enjoyed the passion of the smaller teams, the sportsmanship shown by most players, then to see that last night I thought it just wasn't nice.

Of course its 'win at all costs' and Holland were probably frightened about getting knocked out to CR at this stage on Pens, but you didn't see the CR keeper pulling the same antics, and for me I am disappointed that Holland resorted to it.

I will be cheering on Argentina in the next game, thats for sure.

Pro. F

Zico wrote: »

There are a lot of other nasty things players get away with which I'd be more concerned about than sledging a penalty taker.

I don't know why people are suddenly making an issue of it. I don't even think it has an effect. Mexico were doing the same to Huntelaar and Brazil did the same with Rodriguez and they somehow scored.

There's no reason why only one rule change can be proposed at a time. There are indeed worse things that go on at football, they should be addressed too.

The fact that everybody does it does not justify a behaviour. Everybody used to hack legs before the rules were changed.

Zico wrote: »

What next tell the crowd not whistle or boo?

Ridiculous thing to be moaning about.:rolleyes:

Ah yeah, thin end of the wedge. Next thing you won't be allowed to cheer at a game.

efb

rarnes1 wrote: »

Or maybe it's just a common phrase used with zero intent of chauvinism intended

thats a cop out if ever I read one, "Its a man's game is such a loaded comment"

LuckyLloyd

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Thank you for that amazing nugget. Your withering intellect is truly overpowering.

There is no need to be upset.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Here's more of this patronising BS. Vast Technical supremacy my ass. This is probably the most balanced World Cup ever. None of the traditional powers in world football have really stood out or impressed.

Costa Rica beat Uruguay.
Costa Rica beat Italy.
Costa Rica a very comfortable draw with England.
Costa Rica knocked Greece out on penalties.

Do you think the Dutch were vastly more technical superior than any of the above opponents Cost Rica played? The answer is obvious, no of course they weren't. As I already said, in the dying minutes of the game we saw flashes of what might have been. Costa Rica simply game planned wrong and they paid the price.

I think the Dutch had a far deeper first eleven and squad. Costa Rica were never going to be the best versions of themselves due to accumulated fatigue. Not having Campbell on the pitch at 100% was always going to limit them. Moreover, they played on the counter for long stretches of their previous games:

Uruguay 46%
Italy 42%
England 47%
Greece 43%

As it was, they got all the way to penalties and hung on long enough to maybe nick it. When you say 'flashes of what might have been' I assume you meant when they stepped out more and were cut open by the Dutch with the woodwork and keeper coming to the rescue. In that case we agree.

Son Of A Vidic

Pyjamarama wrote: »

People keep saying that but as far as I can tell it's Germany, Netherlands, Argentina and Brazil in the semis. All historical powerhouses. Just cause Spain and Italy had bad campaigns doesn't mean everything is changing. They'll both likely be back in the mix next time.

But the playing field seems to have leveled significantly during this World Cup. And while some familiar faces may have reached the semifinals, none have stood out or dominated like they typically would have. What makes this World Cup unprecedented for me, is how open it has been. Now whether this is a long term change, or just a momentary blip, only time will tell.

efb

efb wrote: »

thats a cop out if ever I read one, "Its a man's game is such a loaded comment"

Cool, maybe you should ask him

LuckyLloyd

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

If nothing else, this World Cup should have clearly shown that it has becoming a very level playing field at the top. The gaps between the traditional powers and the emerging nations has narrowed significantly. Cost Rica just gave Holland too much respect last night imo.

And yet we get a semi final lineup of:

Germany / Brazil / Holland / Argentina

Son Of A Vidic

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There is no need to be upset.

Still trying to provoke are you? Nope, won't work. Your petty baiting attempt earlier, suggested to me it was best not to engage with you any further. Maybe making some sense from the start, rather that initial nonsense you came out with, wouldn't have rung my alarm bell. But not to worry, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

The keeper has a massive advantage in terms of pressure but a big disadvantage in terms of the actual penalty. I'd imagine that would be their defense

I'd say that it's a fairly even contest as it is, with those two sides you show there and fact that both teams have it the same. So there isn't a need for the keepers to even it up that would justify us having to watch them acting so unsportingly.

Sanity_Saviour

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

If nothing else, this World Cup should have clearly shown that it has becoming a very level playing field at the top. The gaps between the traditional powers and the emerging nations has narrowed significantly. Cost Rica just gave Holland too much respect last night imo.

In all due respect they played to try and reach the Semi Final. They were 5 penalties away from doing that so you might say they did that very well.

If you saw how devastating they were on the counter throughout you would understand the need to maximize the chance of success.

Pro. F

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Chile + Colombia, Switzerland + Belgium, Algeria + France...

Are you mental? They had the easiest by far!!!

Based on the performances we've seen so far I'd have Mexico and Costa Rica as tougher opponents than Switzerland and Belgium and I'd have Costa Rica as level with Algeria, France, Nigeria, Argentina, Chile and Colombia. But we're dealing with tiny sample sizes so it's impossible to have much certainty.

Corvus Maximus

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Still trying to provoke are you? Nope, won't work. Your petty baiting attempt earlier, suggested to me it was best not to engage with you any further. Maybe making some sense from the start, rather that initial nonsense you came out with, wouldn't have rung my alarm bell. But not to worry, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

In fairness, his original post was correct.

Van Gaal was pretty irrelevant to 99% of fans now praising him.

eagle eye

rarnes1 wrote: »

In fairness, his original post was correct.

Van Gaal was pretty irrelevant to 99% of fans now praising him.

What does that matter? Why is it worth discussing?

99% would certainly be too high anyways, he has been on the radar of a lot of football fans for most of his career.

LuckyLloyd

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Still trying to provoke are you? Nope, won't work. Your petty baiting attempt earlier, suggested to me it was best not to engage with you any further. Maybe making some sense from the start, rather that initial nonsense you came out with, wouldn't have rung my alarm bell. But not to worry, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

NotASheeple

rarnes1 wrote: »

In fairness, his original post was correct.

Van Gaal was pretty irrelevant to 99% of fans now praising him.

How can you even try and defend what was said?

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that the most interesting phenomenon on the forum now are Utd fans who seem to have only realised LVG exists and is an interesting character but that's just me.

A totally absurd comment to make. Totally pointless and stupid. Oh boo hoo, why are United fans celebrating LVG now? Eh, he wasn't their bloody manager a couple of months ago. Are we supposed to believe that fans knew nothing of him until his appointment? Give over please.

Rayne Wooney

What would United fans have had to discuss about Van Gaal before he became manager

Bizarre stuff in here


Holland deserved to go through

Billy86

NIMAN wrote: »

One thing thats obvious, Robben is the Dutch main man, not RvP.

And I'm wondering what is Robben doing these days? He is SUPER fit, almost superhuman (wink wink). For a man that was a crock early in his career he is the opposite of all aging players, he is getting fitter, faster and stronger.

Makes you wonder.

Pep didn't bring Fuentes over as team doctor again did he?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

What does that matter? Why is it worth discussing?

99% would certainly be too high anyways, he has been on the radar of a lot of football fans for most of his career.

It's being discussed isn't it?

Not sure of exact percentages but you get my drift.

NotASheeple wrote: »

How can you even try and defend what was said?


.

Just agreeing with a point he made. Fairly sure that's allowed. Surprised so many are getting so upset by it.

NotASheeple

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just agreeing with a point he made. Fairly sure that's allowed. Surprised so many are getting so upset by it.

Not upset, just gobsmacked by the stupidity of the comment. But no skin off my nose, you're perfectly entitled to agree with that nonsense all you want.

NotASheeple

NotASheeple wrote: »

Not upset, just gobsmacked by the stupidity of the comment. But no skin off my nose, you're perfectly entitled to agree with that nonsense all you want.

Cool thanks.

fyfe79

Interesting that everyone is praising LVG for his tactical masterclass in subbing on Krul. But what about the Argentina game? He's already said that Cillessen will start, but has his confidence now been shot? He wasn't informed of the plan to sub him if it went to penalties so he must have wanted the ground to open up for him. He'll know that the spotlight will be him during the semi and that could lead to problems. Will be very interesting to watch his performance.

Will I Amnt

fyfe79 wrote: »

Interesting that everyone is praising LVG for his tactical masterclass in subbing on Krul. But what about the Argentina game? He's already said that Cillessen will start, but has his confidence now been shot? He wasn't informed of the plan to sub him if it went to penalties so he must have wanted the ground to open up for him. He'll know that the spotlight will be him during the semi and that could lead to problems. Will be very interesting to watch his performance.

He has been given the number 1 spot ahead of Krul, LvG prefers him. A tactical change for a penalty shootout is hardly going to destroy him mentally.

inforfun

fyfe79 wrote: »

Interesting that everyone is praising LVG for his tactical masterclass in subbing on Krul. But what about the Argentina game? He's already said that Cillessen will start, but has his confidence now been shot? He wasn't informed of the plan to sub him if it went to penalties so he must have wanted the ground to open up for him. He'll know that the spotlight will be him during the semi and that could lead to problems. Will be very interesting to watch his performance.

Nah... Cillessen is fine.

Whether it was during the match or before kick off, Van Gaal had informed only Krul that he was going to bring him on for the penalties.
That is why Cillessen was pissed off at first, he didnt know.

Van Gaal has been changing goal keepers all through the qualification, Vermeer, Vorm, Krul, Cillessen all have been involved depending on what kind of keeper Van Gaal thought was needed.

None of them is world class and undisputed but they all 4 have their strong points. Cillessen probably the most complete one of the lot.

Pro. F

fyfe79 wrote: »

Interesting that everyone is praising LVG for his tactical masterclass in subbing on Krul. But what about the Argentina game? He's already said that Cillessen will start, but has his confidence now been shot? He wasn't informed of the plan to sub him if it went to penalties so he must have wanted the ground to open up for him. He'll know that the spotlight will be him during the semi and that could lead to problems. Will be very interesting to watch his performance.

Where did you hear that?

fyfe79

I read it on RTE text that LVG said it in his press conference, and he confirmed Cillessen will start vs Argentina. Didn't see the press conference myself, mind.

Pro. F

inforfun wrote: »

Nah... Cillessen is fine.

Whether it was during the match or before kick off, Van Gaal had informed only Krul that he was going to bring him on for the penalties.
That is why Cillessen was pissed off at first, he didnt know.

Van Gaal has been changing goal keepers all through the qualification, Vermeer, Vorm, Krul, Cillessen all have been involved depending on what kind of keeper Van Gaal thought was needed.

None of them is world class and undisputed but they all 4 have their strong points. Cillessen probably the most complete one of the lot.

If that's true then that's awful management. For a small advantage he's ensured the player will never trust him again. Silly behaviour imo.

weisses

Pro. F wrote: »

If that's true then that's awful management. For a small advantage he's ensured the player will never trust him again. Silly behaviour imo.

It's true ... He didn't wanted cillessen to worry about that during the match ... If he needed all his substitutes during the game if wouldn't even have happened ... Cillessen is not good in stopping penalties so it's more then just a small advantage

adox

Pro. F wrote: »

If that's true then that's awful management. For a small advantage he's ensured the player will never trust him again. Silly behaviour imo.

Just to flip that around, if he had told him in advance that may have dented his confidence and could have been an unnecessary step if the situation never arose.

I can see reasons for both telling him in advance and not telling him and wouldn't have a problem with either.

eagle eye

rarnes1 wrote: »

It's being discussed isn't it?

Not sure of exact percentages but you get my drift.

No I don't get your drift. Louis Van Gaal has been a top manager for a long, long time. He has been a top name ever since that Ajax team won a Champion's league and got back to the final a year later. He was with Barca and Bayern only recently. Its not like he was living in some backwater managing an u-12s team or something. He would have been on most people's radar for most of his managerial career.

Maybe something as high as 50% might not know that he was in charge of AZ Alkmaar for a few years but a lot of football fans would have known that as soon as he won the Eredivisie with them.

He has always been a big name since he won the Champion's league in '95. If you are talking from your own perspective and believe that everybody would be the same as you and only follow the EPL and major international tournaments then fine but a lot of us follow the scores in other leagues and have been doing that for years.

Rayne Wooney

Cillessen did his job, Krul did his when he came on and the end result is the team are through to the semis of a World Cup

I don't think it will impact confidence at all

Zico

Pro. F wrote: »

If that's true then that's awful management. For a small advantage he's ensured the player will never trust him again. Silly behaviour imo.

If that's all it takes to undermine the player's loyalty then he's better off without him.