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Landlord doesn't know I live here - housemate gave me my notice

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  • 04-07-2014 4:26am
    #1
    BlueHydreanga
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭


    Hey y'all
    Basically I've been living with one other guy for well over 6 months now, it's my first time renting away from home so it was all new to me. I didn't sign a lease and I pay the rent and bills into my housemates account. He always tells me to stay clear for a while if the landlord is over, claiming he doesn't want me to run into her for the first time over an issue with the boiler for example (which is bull why else would I run into a landlord)

    Anyway he told me a month ago that the landlord doesn't know I'm here because she didn't want students which I found odd, surely he doesn't have the right to rent out this room without her knowledge?

    He text me my months notice the other day although I hadn't been planning on leaving just yet, a big long message saying how I need to pay a certain amount of the rent in 7 days or I'm out

    I've no clue whether I should get the landlords number or what. My housemate is always so shifty, never shown me the esb bill and has once claimed that the internet bill was going up 10 euro for some mysterious reason!

    Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


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    #2
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    Wtf. He is taking the piss out of you.


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    #3
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    He text you your months notice? The tenant?

    He has as much rights as you and as much authority. He is ****ing you over. Tell this helpful flatmate. You have got in touch with citizens info and they have advised you to ring the police. Which you did. And they have a meeting with you.


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    #4
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    Ok now to actual reality. This lease you signed, where did it come from. And who did you Sign and hand to.


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    #5
    SeantheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭SeantheMan


    SterlingArcher wrote: »
    Ok now to actual reality. This lease you signed, where did it come from. And who did you Sign and hand to.
    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    Hey y'all
    it's my first time renting away from home so it was all new to me. I didn't sign a lease and I pay the rent and bills into my housemates account.

    He didn't sign a lease. So I guess it just looks like your some mate of this guy who is throwing him a few quid to live there.


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    #6
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    SeantheMan wrote: »
    He didn't sign a lease. So I guess it just looks like your some mate of this guy who is throwing him a few quid to live there.

    Yes yes was waiting on op to correct me. And in the drawn out process,open their eyes to what they had done.

    But thanks for skipping to the endm


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    #7
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    Hey y'all
    Basically I've been living with one other guy for well over 6 months now, it's my first time renting away from home so it was all new to me. I didn't sign a lease and I pay the rent and bills into my housemates account. He always tells me to stay clear for a while if the landlord is over, claiming he doesn't want me to run into her for the first time over an issue with the boiler for example (which is bull why else would I run into a landlord)

    Anyway he told me a month ago that the landlord doesn't know I'm here because she didn't want students which I found odd, surely he doesn't have the right to rent out this room without her knowledge?

    He text me my months notice the other day although I hadn't been planning on leaving just yet, a big long message saying how I need to pay a certain amount of the rent in 7 days or I'm out

    I've no clue whether I should get the landlords number or what. My housemate is always so shifty, never shown me the esb bill and has once claimed that the internet bill was going up 10 euro for some mysterious reason!

    Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

    OP, your so far up "that" creek it's not funny

    - You've no lease with the house owner & you moved in without the house owner knowing about it so so essentially you're a licencee as your living with the landlord - your housemate is the one renting to you, not the owner of the house. The PRTB won't help in this case as you're a licencee.
    Unfortunately your housemate is within his rights to ask you to leave as licencees have little or no rights in Ireland.
    All you can do to fight back is;
    1. Point out to the housemate that he's acting as LL - he never registered you with the PRTB so your reporting him and he'll get done for not declaring a tenancy
    2. Point out the rent you paid him was income and he should declare it to the revenue - your notifying Revenue about his undeclared income.
    3. If you've a buddy in the Gardai ask them if paying bils without seeing the actual bills is legal and can he be done for fraud? - If you're not seeing the bills there is a very good chance you're paying more than your fair share. I'd try demanding that you get to see the bills for the last few months but I wouldn't hold my breath over it.

    That's the theoretical stuff out of the way, unfortunately in real life;
    1. The PRTB are, at best, a joke in this country; you'll be waiting months to a year to get them to deal with your issue and more than likely they'll wash their hands of it by trying to say that it's a licencee situation so nothing to do with them - technically they're correct but you entered into the deal in good faith thinking you were on the proper/main lease.
    2. You might get somewhere with the revenue, they hate undeclared income but the level of it might be so low that it's not economic for them to go after him. The best number I can find for them is the Investigations & Prosecutions team - give them a ring, I'd say you've nothing to lose at this stage.
    3. In addition to the Garda buddy ask a solicitor if you can use the law - a threat of small claims court / questioning over fraud might give him a shock but in all honestly I'd say neither a Gards or solicitor will help you, the amounts are probably too small.

    Soooo after all that the real life advice I'd give you;
    Pay nothing beyond this point and tell him that you won't be until this gets sorted.
    Start looking for paperwork around the house, use the local post office, Gardai, election roll, land registry to find out who the owner ie proper landlord is and contact them. Ask them to be added to the lease if you want to stay, they may not do this and you're in a whole new set of arguments, best to sort this one out first.
    Personally I'd just look for somewhere new to stay, you'll have to create such a ruckus to sort this sod of a housemate the atmosphere will be poisonous - best to get out safely and then report the **** afterwards.

    Just remember the LL knows nothing of this (according to your post) so don't go blaming them.


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    #8
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,960 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    He text me my months notice the other day although I hadn't been planning on leaving just yet, a big long message saying how I need to pay a certain amount of the rent in 7 days or I'm out
    ....
    Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


    You've been given a month's notice, and told to pay rent for the remaining period that you'll be there.

    Forget all the fairlyand advice above. You quite likely don't have the standard of proof required. And really - what has the housemate done to you except give you a months' notice (which is quite acceptable IMHO - remember we haven't heard his side of the story about what you're like to live with.)

    Focus on finding yourself somewhere else to live.

    Also -did you pay a deposit when you moved in? If so, say that this can be used for your final rent.


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    #9
    Sleephead
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Sleephead


    Pay nothing more, move out, move on.


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    #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    I didn't sign a lease and I pay the rent and bills into my housemates account. He always tells me to stay clear for a while if the landlord is over, claiming he doesn't want me to run into her for the first time over an issue with the boiler for example (which is bull why else would I run into a landlord)
    This is called subletting. Some landlords allow it, so don't. It seems this landlord doesn't know that you're there. At this point in time, it's neither here nor there. As your housemate is subletting to you, he is effectively your landlord.
    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    Anyway he told me a month ago that the landlord doesn't know I'm here because she didn't want students which I found odd, surely he doesn't have the right to rent out this room without her knowledge?
    As said, nope, but telling her you're there won't benefit you in any way.
    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    He text me my months notice the other day although I hadn't been planning on leaving just yet, a big long message saying how I need to pay a certain amount of the rent in 7 days or I'm out
    Sounds like he's cutting his loses, and moving out. How much of a deposit did you pay him?

    As he's technically an owner-occupier, he can throw you out at a moments notice, and thus not paying rent is biting the nose to spite the face.
    BlueHydreanga wrote: »
    I've no clue whether I should get the landlords number or what. My housemate is always so shifty, never shown me the esb bill and has once claimed that the internet bill was going up 10 euro for some mysterious reason!
    Shifty enough to not give your deposit back?


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    #11
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    This is called subletting. Some landlords allow it, so don't. It seems this landlord doesn't know that you're there. At this point in time, it's neither here nor there. As your housemate is subletting to you, he is effectively your landlord.
    This is NOT called sub-letting. This is called renting a room with a live-in landlord (albeit without the permission of the house owner)

    Sub-letting is when a tenant (call him TenantA) moves out and in turn rents the property to someone else; call him tenantB. Thus, TenantA becomes a non live-in landlord and he creates a new tenancy with TenantB. TenantA, as a landlord must comply with all a landlord's responsibilities - PRTB registration, income tax returns, PRSI etc. He must also have permission from his landlord (i.e. probably the property owner) in order to sub let. TenantB, after 6 months acquires Part 4 rights.

    In the OP's situation, he is a licensee with very few rights as he is living with a live-in landlord. His landlord, although a tenant has a right to rent out a room under the rent-a-room scheme and can earn up to 10k per year tax free. Also, as this form of renting does not come under the remit of the PRTB as there is no tenancy - it is a licence agreement, whether verbal or written.


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    #12
    kingtut
    Registered Users Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭kingtut


    odds_on wrote: »
    This is NOT called sub-letting. This is called renting a room with a live-in landlord (albeit without the permission of the house owner)

    He is not living with the landlord :confused:
    He is sub-letting as he is paying money to the existing tenant and not direct to the landlord.


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    #13
    4umbrellas
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭4umbrellas


    My guess is the other tenant is moving on himself, and needs to tidy up the situation (i.e. remove the other tenant the landlord doesn't know about) before he goes. He rented to a student (the OP) expecting he'd be leaving around June anyway, once the college term ended. Since the OP isn't, he has to tell him to go.

    My advice? You've few rights in this situation, so take it on the chin and move on. As others have said, if you paid a deposit then tell him that can act as your last month's rent (since he doesn't sound trustworthy enough to give you back your deposit).

    You'll know better for your next rental.


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    #14
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    odds_on wrote: »
    This is NOT called sub-letting. This is called renting a room with a live-in landlord (albeit without the permission of the house owner)
    My bad. Got subletting and licensee mixed up :o


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    #15
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    the_syco wrote: »
    My bad. Got subletting and licensee mixed up :o
    You're welcome, Syco. Unfortunately many, many people do not know the difference between sub-letting and a licence agreement. A person who sub-lets is covered by the RTA 2004.


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    #16
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    kingtut wrote: »
    He is not living with the landlord :confused:
    He is sub-letting as he is paying money to the existing tenant and not direct to the landlord.
    Incorrect. A person, whether a home owner or a tenant who rents a room in the property in which s/he is living becomes a live-in landlord.

    Part of the proof a person is a licensee is that s/he pays rent to another person living in the property.

    As for sub-letting, see my post above on the matter.


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    #17
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I'd say the housemate has been pocketing a bit of cash for himself here.


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    #18
    Triangla
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Triangla


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I'd say the housemate has been pocketing a bit of cash for himself here.

    And probably has someone lined up to come in to pay even more rent than you plus extra few quid for bills.

    No point living with people like that, just move on!


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    #19
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I'd say the housemate has been pocketing a bit of cash for himself here.
    And why is he not entitled to rent out a spare room in the apartment to help pay the rent?
    But it should be done with the permission of the tenant's landlord as most lease agreement prohibit rent out a room without such permission.


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    #20
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    odds_on wrote: »
    And why is he not entitled to rent out a spare room in the apartment to help pay the rent?
    But it should be done with the permission of the tenant's landlord as most lease agreement prohibit rent out a room without such permission.

    If he pays the rent for the whole apartment no problem.

    On the other hand what if he only pays rent for his own room in the place?

    It happened to me when I moved into a place (it was a room in a house share) where the head housemate was being really sketchy about the landlord/estate agent and collecting the rent (he wouldn't tell me who the agent was) but said he looked after collecting the rent off everyone and he'd get it off me later.

    It worked out that he hadn't told the agent I'd moved in and was going to use my rent money to buy stuff for the house. I left pretty quick after hearing this.


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