Illegal Driver in club matchplay?

Wombatman

He could kick the other lad in the nut sack next time he sees him, but I guess that might not help in the long run :rolleyes:

Dayor Knight

TheDoc wrote: »

I have this feeling and behaviour I think from an experience that happened to me. At 15 I was playing in the adults presidents cup prize and was shooting a great score. As I came up to the 18th I was in the bunker on the right, and managed to hit a lovely shot to about an inch, tap in.

My playing partners were preparing their putts, and I went up, pulled the flag out and rested it behind me as I tapped in, then moved away tending the flag.

I got an applause from the spectators outside the clubhouse for a great shot, and word had gone around I was shooting a great score.

We finished up and my Da was estatic, I was looking good to be the first junior to win an adult event of that size, and I was getting loads of congratulations from other players as I was walking up to the locker room. Then this old wanker, someone I genuinely despise, and has years has gone on I know is a cheater, and fixes his handicapp, approached me and asked did I mark myself down the penalty. Said it loud enough to ensure everyone heard. I asked what penalty, and he said I had rested the flag for my tapin and that was a penalty. He snatched my card from my hand and said that I hadn't and had signed an incorrect score, and was disqualified. He handed me the card back and shuffled off back into the clubhouse. Granted some other things happened but not for this forum, I had the winning score, but alas was dq'd.

I know now that is infact a rule, from around 100 people watching, he was the only one that felt the need to say it. I'd no idea of it at the time obviously. And there was obviously no advantage gained, but sure there you go.

Since then I've been sure to use my own sense of cop on and decision making when it comes to the more obscurious rules of golf. Not only will I always remember his smug look, and his horrible attitude, but I know now how that moment had him marginalised in the club and turned into a pretty hated figure.

If I was to be a stickler for rules, I'd say I'd get myself a pretty wankery name around the club. I know the rules now as I've grown up, something I made sure to learn so I'd never be caught out again, but the amount of people getting rules wrong or incorrect, especially regarding red and yellow stakes among other things, I'd be handing out penatlies like the Traffic Corps.

That was a terrible thing to do to a 15 year old. What an asshole. And they wonder why not enough young people coming through as members. Crowd of assholes like that ruined Irish golf.

Montgolfier

Dayor Knight wrote: »

That was a terrible thing to do to a 15 year old. What an asshole. And they wonder why not enough young people coming through as members. Crowd of assholes like that ruined Irish golf.

Could he not have changed the score and giving himself the penalty and get it initialed?
It was signed but not put in the box or logged in the computer.

Dayor Knight

Montgolfier wrote: »

Could he not have changed the score and giving himself the penalty and get it initialed?
It was signed but not put in the box or logged in the computer.

Sounds like the bully didn't give him the chance. Could just as easy have brought it to his attention and advised him to add a penalty. Hard for a 15 year old to deal with that.

TheDoc

Dayor Knight wrote: »

That was a terrible thing to do to a 15 year old. What an asshole. And they wonder why not enough young people coming through as members. Crowd of assholes like that ruined Irish golf.

Yeah I still don't talk to him over it, more so because as years have gone on I have come to learn he is a cheat and handicap fixer.

Thankfully my Da was pretty good with the situation and kept me motiviated, I was really turned of golf by that incident and it very much led to me leaving the game, but he kept me going out and I eventually won a couple of adult comps as a junior.

The "majors" though still elude me, but hopefully not for too long

Ironically the guy involved was made captain ( lolz?) and during his Captains day my Da got me all pumped up and started putting these scenarios of me winning it, and doing this or that to get my own back, and that he would be sick handing me over the cup. Got into the playoffs for it and missed out on winning it. Would have being the ultimate revenge imo.

Shady Tady

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah I still don't talk to him over it, more so because as years have gone on I have come to learn he is a cheat and handicap fixer.

Thankfully my Da was pretty good with the situation and kept me motiviated, I was really turned of golf by that incident and it very much led to me leaving the game, but he kept me going out and I eventually won a couple of adult comps as a junior.

The "majors" though still elude me, but hopefully not for too long

Ironically the guy involved was made captain ( lolz?) and during his Captains day my Da got me all pumped up and started putting these scenarios of me winning it, and doing this or that to get my own back, and that he would be sick handing me over the cup. Got into the playoffs for it and missed out on winning it. Would have being the ultimate revenge imo.

I'd play in the fore ball with him every Sunday I could until until I nailed him or wrecked his head. I'd pull out the rule book on the first tee and flick through it and look him in the eye, no talk, a few weeks should do it at the most! I'd stand on his ball any time I could, disconnect his cart battery when he's teeing off on each hole and leave a dead fish in his bag at the end of the round when you hear he's going on two weeks holidays abroad with the wife! Finally I'd write an anonymous letter to revenue suggesting he needs an audit!

Seve OB

Shady Tady wrote: »

I'd play in the fore ball with him every Sunday I could until until I nailed him or wrecked his head. I'd pull out the rule book on the first tee and flick through it and look him in the eye, no talk, a few weeks should do it at the most! I'd stand on his ball any time I could, disconnect his cart battery when he's teeing off on each hole and leave a dead fish in his bag at the end of the round when you hear he's going on two weeks holidays abroad with the wife! Finally I'd write an anonymous letter to revenue suggesting he needs an audit!

Oh Tady, you are the Shady one aren't you

Golfnut77

TheDoc wrote: »

I have this feeling and behaviour I think from an experience that happened to me. At 15 I was playing in the adults presidents cup prize and was shooting a great score. As I came up to the 18th I was in the bunker on the right, and managed to hit a lovely shot to about an inch, tap in.

My playing partners were preparing their putts, and I went up, pulled the flag out and rested it behind me as I tapped in, then moved away tending the flag.

I got an applause from the spectators outside the clubhouse for a great shot, and word had gone around I was shooting a great score.

We finished up and my Da was estatic, I was looking good to be the first junior to win an adult event of that size, and I was getting loads of congratulations from other players as I was walking up to the locker room. Then this old wanker, someone I genuinely despise, and has years has gone on I know is a cheater, and fixes his handicapp, approached me and asked did I mark myself down the penalty. Said it loud enough to ensure everyone heard. I asked what penalty, and he said I had rested the flag for my tapin and that was a penalty. He snatched my card from my hand and said that I hadn't and had signed an incorrect score, and was disqualified. He handed me the card back and shuffled off back into the clubhouse. Granted some other things happened but not for this forum, I had the winning score, but alas was dq'd.

I know now that is infact a rule, from around 100 people watching, he was the only one that felt the need to say it. I'd no idea of it at the time obviously. And there was obviously no advantage gained, but sure there you go.

Since then I've been sure to use my own sense of cop on and decision making when it comes to the more obscurious rules of golf. Not only will I always remember his smug look, and his horrible attitude, but I know now how that moment had him marginalised in the club and turned into a pretty hated figure.

If I was to be a stickler for rules, I'd say I'd get myself a pretty wankery name around the club. I know the rules now as I've grown up, something I made sure to learn so I'd never be caught out again, but the amount of people getting rules wrong or incorrect, especially regarding red and yellow stakes among other things, I'd be handing out penatlies like the Traffic Corps.

Although he dealt with it in a horrible way he still did the right thing, if it was me I would have said it to your father instead of confronting you especially at that age.

Would you have preferred to have won and then later learn that you should have been DQ'd? There would always be that cloud hanging over your win, an asterisk next to your name etc. And at least from that situation you learned the rule and won't be repeating it, imagine if he didn't pull you on it and you were playing a far more important tournament down the line, same scenario except a playing partner tells you you're disqualified for doing it but you say "I did it in the Captain's Prize a few years ago and it was fine?", again don't agree with how he approached it, almost as if he enjoyed it but it was the right thing to do.

That's why I always have and always will call up playing partners on rules and I would hope they would do the same with me as I definitely don't know all of them.

Seve OB

Golfnut77 wrote: »

Although he dealt with it in a horrible way he still did the right thing, if it was me I would have said it to your father instead of confronting you especially at that age.

Would you have preferred to have won and then later learn that you should have been DQ'd? There would always be that cloud hanging over your win, an asterisk next to your name etc. And at least from that situation you learned the rule and won't be repeating it, imagine if he didn't pull you on it and you were playing a far more important tournament down the line, same scenario except a playing partner tells you you're disqualified for doing it but you say "I did it in the Captain's Prize a few years ago and it was fine?", again don't agree with how he approached it, almost as if he enjoyed it but it was the right thing to do.

That's why I always have and always will call up playing partners on rules and I would hope they would do the same with me as I definitely don't know all of them.

I disagree. By the sounds of it, the auld fella only did this because he didn't want to see a JUNIOR win a major club comp. How dare they!

The old guy, could simply have called the young fella aside afterwards and told him the error of his ways, and that he should make sure not to do it again. I can't think of any examples now cause I'm so old, but I will tell you that in my years as a junior, you would often get a word in your ear when you did something wrong.... not meant as criticism, but more as an education, but you weren't treated like dirt and humiliated like that. It's not as if he was cheating.

marvin80

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah I still don't talk to him over it, more so because as years have gone on I have come to learn he is a cheat and handicap fixer.

Thankfully my Da was pretty good with the situation and kept me motiviated, I was really turned of golf by that incident and it very much led to me leaving the game, but he kept me going out and I eventually won a couple of adult comps as a junior.

The "majors" though still elude me, but hopefully not for too long

Ironically the guy involved was made captain ( lolz?) and during his Captains day my Da got me all pumped up and started putting these scenarios of me winning it, and doing this or that to get my own back, and that he would be sick handing me over the cup. Got into the playoffs for it and missed out on winning it. Would have being the ultimate revenge imo.

Fair play to your Da, dealt with the whole situation perfectly, class act.

Golfnut77

stevieob wrote: »

I disagree. By the sounds of it, the auld fella only did this because he didn't want to see a JUNIOR win a major club comp. How dare they!

The old guy, could simply have called the young fella aside afterwards and told him the error of his ways, and that he should make sure not to do it again. I can't think of any examples now cause I'm so old, but I will tell you that in my years as a junior, you would often get a word in your ear when you did something wrong.... not meant as criticism, but more as an education, but you weren't treated like dirt and humiliated like that. It's not as if he was cheating.

I'm sure he would have done it for anybody that he saw breach the rules.

But if he said it to OP and then he proceeds to sign his card now knowing that he broke the rules then it brings his integrity, albeit that of a 15 year old, into question.

Shady Tady

Golfnut77 wrote: »

Although he dealt with it in a horrible way he still did the right thing, if it was me I would have said it to your father instead of confronting you especially at that age.

Would you have preferred to have won and then later learn that you should have been DQ'd? There would always be that cloud hanging over your win, an asterisk next to your name etc. And at least from that situation you learned the rule and won't be repeating it, imagine if he didn't pull you on it and you were playing a far more important tournament down the line, same scenario except a playing partner tells you you're disqualified for doing it but you say "I did it in the Captain's Prize a few years ago and it was fine?", again don't agree with how he approached it, almost as if he enjoyed it but it was the right thing to do.

That's why I always have and always will call up playing partners on rules and I would hope they would do the same with me as I definitely don't know all of them.

If I had finished second and won the prize after Doc getting disqualified I would take no joy in it, a quite word in the ear was appropriate, he did it unknowingly in a moment of excitement and it did not assist him. The politically correct will disagree, he wouldn't pull up the local bank manager or club secretary But the junior is an easy target!

Golfnut77

Shady Tady wrote: »

If I had finished second and won the prize after Doc getting disqualified I would take no joy in it, a quite word in the ear was appropriate, he did it unknowingly in a moment of excitement and it did not assist him. The politically correct will disagree, he wouldn't pull up the local bank manager or club secretary But the junior is an easy target!

And I the same, I would probably have given my prize to the junior out of goodwill but still if we ignore the rules to the benefit of a 15 year old then why not take pity on an 86 year old who puts the wrong score on his card due to a 'wobbly' memory, if you play golf you are subject to the rules regardless of age/gender/disability etc tough lesson for the OP but now he knows.

newport2

Montgolfier wrote: »

Could he not have changed the score and giving himself the penalty and get it initialed?
It was signed but not put in the box or logged in the computer.

The penalty for holding the flag touching the green while putting is disqualification, not a stroke (I thought). So nothing to initial.

That said, I think the old git should have kept his mouth shut. What's the bets he wouldn't be the man to call a penalty on himself?

newport2

Golfnut77 wrote: »

I'm sure he would have done it for anybody that he saw breach the rules.

But if he said it to OP and then he proceeds to sign his card now knowing that he broke the rules then it brings his integrity, albeit that of a 15 year old, into question.

Except perhaps himself

Golfnut77

newport2 wrote: »

Except perhaps himself

You'd like to think not but given my experience with playing partners and the rules then nothing would surprise me.

Russman

Golfnut77 wrote: »

I'm sure he would have done it for anybody that he saw breach the rules.

But if he said it to OP and then he proceeds to sign his card now knowing that he broke the rules then it brings his integrity, albeit that of a 15 year old, into question.

You can't really believe that, can you ?
Most clubs have grumpy old gits who hate to see juniors winning anything. Obviously none of us were there, but I can't believe for a second he'd have said that to a full member. From my reading of the story he wasn't even playing with the lad.

Golfnut77

Russman wrote: »

You can't really believe that, can you ?
Most clubs have grumpy old gits who hate to see juniors winning anything. Obviously none of us were there, but I can't believe for a second he'd have said that to a full member. From my reading of the story he wasn't even playing with the lad.

What evidence is there to suggest otherwise, there was an audience watching them at the last he spotted the rules infraction and informed the player albeit in a smug manner. Who's to say he wouldn't have done them same for someone else?

Shady Tady

Golfnut77 wrote: »

What evidence is there to suggest otherwise, there was an audience watching them at the last he spotted the rules infraction and informed the player albeit in a smug manner. Who's to say he wouldn't have done them same for someone else?

These guys are in every club and come with a Heath warning and are usually given a wide berth, you'll hear them whining at the AGM every year! You know the guy who walks around the golf bags in club matches counting clubs even though he has nothing to do with the team!

Russman

Golfnut77 wrote: »

What evidence is there to suggest otherwise, there was an audience watching them at the last he spotted the rules infraction and informed the player albeit in a smug manner. Who's to say he wouldn't have done them same for someone else?

No evidence at all, purely gut feeling. But I think we've all seen that movie, or a close relative of it, play out in clubs over the years.
No offense intended, but I think to suspect the old guy was doing it out of some sense of protecting the field or the integrity of the competition is naïve.
Then again maybe I'm just a cynical old ba$tard

Seve OB

I think the old guy who pulled the junior up is actually The Golfnut77 himself

Golfnut77

stevieob wrote: »

I think the old guy who pulled the junior up is actually The Golfnut77 himself

I would have, but I would have said it to his father.

Alas the 77' stands for my year of birth

FixdePitchmark

Golfnut77 wrote: »

I would have, but I would have said it to his father.

Alas the 77' stands for my year of birth

Golfnut - just a question do you carry this follow the rules to perfection into other parts of life ?
You sound a sound bloke ?

The pros here are asking about rules on raking a bleeding bunker - they play everyday - have a rules official with them on every hole.

Do you think you have unreasonable expectations on lads (90 %) - who are not into golf as much as us. You were genuinley going on about, what was it ? a 1000 page plus document ?

Yes , you were right here.

But do you take the hard line on everything ?

We seen lads play off the wrong tees other day - they were doing our head in , how slow they were , on the hole in question it made no difference , but we got a guy to go ahead and tell them to play right tees.

Some lads would get them dq'd others would not

It was a fun event. Jaysus the lads were in their 60s. Life is too short. (I think)

But maybe one of those lads ahead was Doc's friend

Golfnut77

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Golfnut - just a question do you carry this follow the rules to perfection into other parts of life ?
You sound a sound bloke ?

The pros here are asking about rules on raking a bleeding bunker - they play everyday - have a rules official with them on every hole.

Do you think you have unreasonable expectations on lads (90 %) - who are not into golf as much as us. You were genuinley going on about, what was it ? a 1000 page plus document ?

Yes , you were right here.

But do you take the hard line on everything ?

We seen lads play off the wrong tees other day - they were doing our head in , how slow they were , on the hole in question it made no difference , but we got a guy to go ahead and tell them to play right tees.

Some lads would get them dq'd others would not

It was a fun event. Jaysus the lads were in their 60s. Life is too short. (I think)

But maybe one of those lads ahead was Doc's friend

Not in other parts of my life no but when I took up golf I knew it was a game with a lot of rules and if you play a game competitively then you should follow the rules and if you don't then take the penalty be it 1 stroke, 2 strokes or DQ and move on.

They don't have to read the 1000 pages of clubs that are non conforming, they should however check their driver to make sure it is, I don't think that's expecting too much. And in this case I just happened to know that this particular Cobra driver was one of the most notorious of the non conforming clubs if it was another make Callaway etc then I would not have known but if I saw it was an older model then I would have checked myself afterwards before making the claim.

In regards playing the wrong tees, it depends on the format, stroke play they are DQd, stableford they receive NR on the holes they played the wrong way. They should be penalised, what happens if you shoot a great round and beaten by someone that didn't abide by the rules?

It is asking a bit much for people to know all the rules as you say pros have a referee around, but if you played from the wrong tees then surely you have to think maybe I have a penalty of some kind here, finish out the round then ask a pro and take the appropriate penalty.

There's many times that I have unknowingly broken the rules, I have then gone to the pro and asked whether I was right or wrong, if wrong then I take the penalty and I now know the rule for future reference. That's the best way to learn the rules.

Although I think taking up golf you should know the basic rules, ie number of clubs, teeing up in line or behind the tees, water hazards etc.

You say it was a bit of fun, but if someone shows up to your 5 a side, someone who has never played before picks the ball up in his hands and runs down the other end and lashes it in, do you just let it go since it's a bit of fun and he doesn't know the rules? I doubt it.

FixdePitchmark

Golf rules are far too big and complicated.

Adding additional appendices outside of the rules is unreasonable for club golfers.

I think you are an extremely detailed person - but I feel this is not reasonable for the majority of golfers.

The rule you are talking about is not the handball rule - It is the permitted dimensions of the net in a football goal.

GreeBo

stevieob wrote: »

I disagree. By the sounds of it, the auld fella only did this because he didn't want to see a JUNIOR win a major club comp. How dare they!

The old guy, could simply have called the young fella aside afterwards and told him the error of his ways, and that he should make sure not to do it again. I can't think of any examples now cause I'm so old, but I will tell you that in my years as a junior, you would often get a word in your ear when you did something wrong.... not meant as criticism, but more as an education, but you weren't treated like dirt and humiliated like that. It's not as if he was cheating.

Whatever his reasons for doing it, rules are rules.
The problem with ignoring rules is where do you stop?

We have a rule book, enforce them all, equally or none imo.

Sure he handled it badly, but he still was right.

GreeBo

Shady Tady wrote: »

If I had finished second and won the prize after Doc getting disqualified I would take no joy in it, a quite word in the ear was appropriate, he did it unknowingly in a moment of excitement and it did not assist him. The politically correct will disagree, he wouldn't pull up the local bank manager or club secretary But the junior is an easy target!

How is it "PC" to play by the rules?

Would you give the prize if he got DQ's for touching the sand in the bunker with his club?
Would impact his score or assist him, its just another rule.
How about teeing up a foot outside the markers?
Removing some sand from the green when you aren't on it?

Blur some of the lines and they are all blurred.

Golfnut77

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Golf rules are far too big and complicated.

I'm sure lots of people feel the same, but if you believe that then don't play in competitions.

If people think golf is just meant to be fun and the rules can just be ignored because although your club touched the ball and moved in 2cm you didn't gain an advantage and would be stupid to penalise yourself then don't play in competitions.

FixdePitchmark

Golfnut77 wrote: »

I'm sure lots of people feel the same, but if you believe that then don't play in competitions.

If people think golf is just meant to be fun and the rules can just be ignored because although your club touched the ball and moved in 2cm you didn't gain an advantage and would be stupid to penalise yourself then don't play in competitions.

Again - there was no advantage gained in this case.

You were right. Your man was an arse.

But, some people can be intentionally nitpicky. Some people make this part of their persona around golf. As Doc said, you would hardly get a round of golf in , in most events.

A guy with say 6 points after 9, has only started. Give him a break for example.

You are right, but not good for you in the long run to take this approach in every ambiguous situation.

Did you mention early on that your own clubs will be illegal soon ?

FixdePitchmark

Golfnut77 wrote: »

I'm sure lots of people feel the same, but if you believe that then don't play in competitions.

If people think golf is just meant to be fun and the rules can just be ignored because although your club touched the ball and moved in 2cm you didn't gain an advantage and would be stupid to penalise yourself then don't play in competitions.

You keep bringing up rules of the ball in play.

This is far more unusual than that.

What was worse - What Tiger did at Masters or This.
Or according to you - the both events are exactly the same.