Oireachtas TV

lertsnim

The Journal specifically state it's not available terrestrially in their piece.

expectationlost

im confused is it on saorview or not

dublinman1990

lertsnim wrote: »

The Journal specifically state it's not available terrestrially in their piece.

Although someone did mention it in the comments piece in the article, it is still very poor form The Journal not to mention it's testing phase.

dublinman1990

expectationlost wrote: »

im confused is it on saorview or not

Yes, only as a test transmission for the moment.

Whether it will be on Saorview permanently or not, that is a matter for Alex White and his department to decide it's fate.

Apogee

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Although someone did mention it in the comments piece in the article, it is still very poor form The Journal not to mention it's testing phase.

There was no mention of Saorview in the short piece on the 6.01 News this evening either.

Elmo

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Yes, only as a test transmission for the moment.

Whether it will be on Saorview permanently or not, that is a matter for Alex White and his department to decide it's fate.

The Minister might disagree.

The Department will definitely disagree.

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

The Minister might disagree.

The Department will definitely disagree.

I suspect both the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and 2RN will also disagree, given that they are the ones who have to enter into the required contract.

I notice the channel now has a DOG and new graphics, though I'm not sure how new.

stereomatic

If OTV is testing on Saorview, the only outcome that I can see is that it will be transmitted on Saorview

I wonder how much testing would cost?

Elmo

stereomatic wrote: »

I wonder how much testing would cost?

What ever the cost it will take into consideration the best course for both licence fee payer and the tax payer!

Hotblack Desiato

250k a year to Sky is a disgrace.

Infoanon

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

250k a year to Sky is a disgrace.

Why? - normal cost to rent a transponder on Astra and be on the Sky EPG is circa 400k.

Saorview is circa 1million iirc.

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

Why? - normal cost to rent a transponder on Astra and be on the Sky EPG is circa 400k.

Saorview is circa 1million iirc.

It's not fta and other channels don't pay to be on sky.

They took the lazy route and are blaming rte.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

It's not fta and other channels don't pay to be on sky.

They took the lazy route and are blaming rte.

I agree re FTA, there is no reason for OTV not to be FTA.

Re other channels not paying - there are commercial considerations at play which have been discussed at length on other threads.

Not to sure what you mean re they took the lazy route?

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

I agree re FTA, there is no reason for OTV not to be FTA.

Re other channels not paying - there are commercial considerations at play which have been discussed at length on other threads.

Not to sure what you mean re they took the lazy route?

All of the stakeholders are to blame. Oireachtas were not invited to the many panels about DSO from 2010 - 2012. From what I can gather there was very little discussion between any of the broadcasters, regulators or departments about the introduction of either OTV and IFB TV.

Soarview would pretty much meant that UPC and Sky would have to take the channel.

There are plenty of work around for the introduction of OTV on Saorview not just on a "Test" basis.

From actually taking to the guys at OTV they don't understand timesharing and seemed not to know what RTÉ position is with Sky.

Now the tax payer and licence fee payer will pay twice for the service. We still pay €900,000 weather it comes from the Oireachtas or out of the licence fee, we then pay €250,000 for it to be carried on Sky and if we have sky we our sub for its addition. UPC might then start asking why they don't get paid for carraige on their platform!

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

Now the tax payer and licence fee payer will pay twice for the service. We still pay €900,000 weather it comes from the Oireachtas or out of the licence fee, we then pay €250,000 for it to be carried on Sky and if we have sky we our sub for its addition. UPC might then start asking why they don't get paid for carraige on their platform!

While legally UPC must carry OTV for free, when UPCs next price increase is announced you can guarantee that carriage of OTV will be used as partial justification.

Sam Russell

^^^^
This whole issues shows up a flaw in the whole roll-out of Saorview was wrong in that it was not presented as 'the way we get TV' but as a branded 'new' service, comparable with UPC and Sky, but it was free. They emphasised that is was a 'platform' and it was a brand to be exploited.

They should have just launched it as the new version of TV in Ireland, with charges for transmission to be paid by each channel. It did not matter whether they stuffed the signal with zeros if there was insufficient takers, and it did not matter if TV3 tried to get a free ride as they would not succeed.

Instead they went on a marketing splurge with a cat and a dog telling us nothing. A quick change-over, done perhaps region by region, but done as quickly as possible to reduce costs, and prevent the importation of crap UK reject TVs.

OTV 'testing' is the latest manifestation of this failed approach to sell Saorview.

The Cush

Infoanon wrote: »

While legally UPC must carry OTV for free,

There is no legal requirement for any cable operator to carry any channel for free but as UPC pointed out in a previous Dept consultation (see quote), it carries the channels in its basic package at no cost to the channels themselves. The same arrangement existed for the trial Oireachtas TV channel since Nov 2011.

UPC’s cable and mmds platforms are currently subject to must carry obligations. At
present these obligations apply to RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3 and TG4. The provisions
are also applicable to community channels and UPC presently carries both the Dublin
and Cork community channels. In the past UPC has been both supportive and willing
to have these channels included (at no cost to the channels themselves) in its basic TV
packages. UPC would expect that given RTÉ’s new services will be funded with state
finances these too will fall under the must carry provisions. In this regard, UPC would
expect that the current financial arrangements for must carry services would continue
for RTÉ’s proposed services; namely both RTÉ and UPC bear their own associated
costs for the production and onward distribution of these services.

Dept of Communications - Submissions to Public Consultation on New RTÉ Service Proposals

The Cush

expectationlost wrote: »

im confused is it on saorview or not

I think we're all confused at this stage, this from the official Oireachtas press release today

It is regrettable that RTÉ Saorview have not yet agreed to carry this important public service channel – as I think its customers and indeed, every constituent in Ireland should have equal access to see their representatives at work in our parliament.”

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/name-24377-en.html

Maybe discussions are underway as mentioned in the Dáil reply last week and the test transmission is being carried in good faith?

MarkK

The Cush wrote: »

I think we're all confused at this stage, this from the official Oireachtas press release today

They seem confused themselves, the Saorview "customers" (they people who are paying) are the broadcasters not the viewers.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Maybe discussions are underway as mentioned in the Dáil reply last week and the test transmission is being carried in good faith?

from the Indo today

Over 30 years since the first live broadcast of the Budget, the work of the Dail and Seanad will be made accessible round-the-clock for UPC, Sky and Eircom customers. And Oireachtas officials are in negotiations with RTE in a bid to broadcast Oireachtas TV on Saorview.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/nowhere-for-tds-to-hide-with-new-tv-channel-30607238.html#sthash.JPvqRPT2.dpuf

Sam Russell

This is nonsense. The Dail make the rules. The Dail decides who has to pay through the Broadcasting Acts, and they can modify it as they see fit. What 'negotiations' are needed?

channelsurfer2

so the indo says they are going to spend 250k on distrubtion(ie give money to sky). It does not mention anything other than negotiations with rte/2rn. thats another 900k or so that they will have to find for that as they cant get a discount for transmission on soarview.

Elmo

Seems to me the Houses of the Oireachtas won't back down on this. Taking a look at some of things being said by TDs and staffers in the Oireachtas on Twitter. RTÉ (2RN and Saorview) are to blame entirely.

The press will lap it up there nothing better than placing blame on RTÉ, for them and The Oireachtas its just a great pity that the majority of people don't really care.

The Cush

Tweet from Mark Mulqueen, Head of Communications, the Houses of the Oireachtas last Thur

CIARA CONWAY TD‏@ciaramconway·;Sep 18
New Oireachtas TV looks grt just wondering any plans to make Oireachtas TV available on Saorview?

mark mulqueen‏@MarkMulqueen
Thanks.We are actively negotiating with @rtenews @SAORVIEW & I'm hopeful we'll reach an agreement on cost v soon.

https://twitter.com/MarkMulqueen/status/512544055872344064

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

According to an article on the cce news website today Oireachtas TV is only on Saorview as a trial service and that the trial is been paid for by RTE through the licence fee. It also states that the houses of the oireachtas are unwilling to pay nine hundred thousand euro for the channel to be carried on Saorview. They say if OTV offically launches on Saorview it will be the licence fee payer who will foot the bill either at a reduced cost or the full carraige cost.

Elmo

Anyone know if OTV has to pay the BAI levy?

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Anyone know if OTV has to pay the BAI levy?

Expect a new Broadcasting Act, exempting OTV from charges for transmission on Saorview.

The Cush

natashaob6 wrote: »

According to an article on the cce news website today Oireachtas TV is only on Saorview as a trial service and that the trial is been paid for by RTE through the licence fee. It also states that the houses of the oireachtas are unwilling to pay nine hundred thousand euro for the channel to be carried on Saorview. They say if OTV offically launches on Saorview it will be the licence fee payer who will foot the bill either at a reduced cost or the full carraige cost.

Article here - http://cce.gno.ie/news/2014/09SEPT/24otv.php

Twitter conversation between them and Mark Mulqueen - twitter.com/MarkMulqueen/status/514709664878313472

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Expect a new Broadcasting Act, exempting OTV from charges for transmission on Saorview.

I do expect a new Broadcasting Act circa 2019 but by then they've wasted time and money.

Seems they will spend €250,000 of their own money and have pretty much signalled they are happy to spend the licence fee on their transmission, this seems to be over the odds for an SD channel.

But do they have to pay the levy?

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

But do they have to pay the levy?

Had a quick look at the regulation, PSB and contract broadcasters must pay the levy. If the income of a broadcaster is less than €250,000 per year the levy would be €750, which would appear to be the category the Oireachtas channel falls into .

MarkK

The Cush wrote: »

Had a quick look at the regulation, PSB and contract broadcasters must pay the levy. If the income of a broadcaster is less than €250,000 per year the levy would be €750, which would appear to be the category the Oireachtas channel falls into .

If they are paying €250,000 to Sky then their income most be more than that, no?

The Cush

MarkK wrote: »

If they are paying €250,000 to Sky then their income most be more than that, no?

Good point, as I said above I had a quick look at the regulation, went back again and this stands out

Qualifying Income
... money which the Government or a public body pays to a broadcaster by way of grant is qualifying income of that broadcaster.

How much of the Houses of the Oireachtas budget is allocated to broadcasting? €2.325m estimate for 2015, projected outturn for 2014 €2.409m.

galtee boy

Are the negotiations gone south ? Test card back on Lcn 17.

channelsurfer2

While some people would see spending 900k to let people watch a niche channel - most of which is watched by a few hundred people, worthwhile, i would rather the 900k was spent elsewhere. It sounds as if they are trying to either get the licence fee money for it, which could be used elsewhere.
The likely outcome is that the public will fund it either from the Oireacthas budget or from the licence fee allocation directly with RTE loosing out on 900k funding if it is the case.

The Cush

galtee boy wrote: »

Are the negotiations gone south ? Test card back on Lcn 17.

Doesn't surprise me really, maybe Mark Mulqueen should stay off twitter and stop blaming Saorview alone for this situation.

Irish Times piece on it yesterday - Saorview yet to vote for Oireachtas TV

Representatives of UPC, Sky and Eircom were all present at the formal launch of Oireachtas TV, the dedicated television channel of the Houses of the Oireachtas, on Monday, but there was one television platform missing: Saorview.

“We’re open to any partners who want to join us,” the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil, Seán Barrett, said in his remarks. “They’re very welcome.”

But while the Oireachtas would like the platform not to charge it for carrying the channel, Saorview (operated by RTÉ subsidiary 2RN) has apparently yet to come round to that view.

“The negotiations are taking place and it’s down the level of contribution,” Barrett said. “I would expect that they would carry us free of charge. We’re talking about taxpayers’ money here.”

Both UPC, which was the original platform to back the channel, and Eircom, which will begin transmitting the channel shortly, carry it free of charge, while the Oireachtas pays a discounted fee to BSkyB for its set-up costs for satellite carriage.

Kristopherus

Funny that, Cush. I watched some of the proceedings today (Thursday) on Saorview. When I looked at it in the evening, I saw a test channel. So Saorview must be sniffing at it.

bigbob

Wonder if OTV considered contacting IrishTV/Showcase see of they could transmit OTV cheaper than SKY deal? It would have been a good fit for both as OTV only broadcasts during daytime. Leaving prime time to IrishTV. Guaranteed income for IrishTV to offset transmission costs. OTV would have been available FTA on satellite.

Elmo

bigbob wrote: »

Wonder if OTV considered contacting IrishTV/Showcase see of they could transmit OTV cheaper than SKY deal? It would have been a good fit for both as OTV only broadcasts during daytime. Leaving prime time to IrishTV. Guaranteed income for IrishTV to offset transmission costs. OTV would have been available FTA on satellite.

They could even have split the Soarview fee which would be a boost for IrishTV

Sam Russell

I would have thought it was essential for OTV to be on Saorview, but there you go.

The cost is irrelevant to them as it all comes out of public funds. [The licence fees are public funds]. One effect of OTV getting a free ride on Saorview would be that TV3 and UTVi (assuming they will be on Saorview) will have to carry the cost, as the cost is shared. However, the cost would not be increased until mux2 is full and mux3 has to be started. If TV3, TG4, and UTVi all go HD, it would be tight with two muxes.

It is another example of the politicians expecting a free ride.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would have thought it was essential for OTV to be on Saorview, but there you go.

The cost is irrelevant to them as it all comes out of public funds. [The licence fees are public funds]. One effect of OTV getting a free ride on Saorview would be that TV3 and UTVi (assuming they will be on Saorview) will have to carry the cost, as the cost is shared. However, the cost would not be increased until mux2 is full and mux3 has to be started. If TV3, TG4, and UTVi all go HD, it would be tight with two muxes.

It is another example of the politicians expecting a free ride.

It looks like it could be years before we see mux 3 appear as it seems to be a struggle for new channels to launch on mux 2.

Sam Russell

natashaob6 wrote: »

It looks like it could be years before we see mux 3 appear as it seems to be a struggle for new channels to launch on mux 2.

Depends on who wants to go HD. It gets tight if all the current (and UTVi) decide to go HD, but if any don't, there is no problem. OTV can be free or not, that matters little, except it shows what a load of xxxxx the TDs are.

Red Alert

It's laughable that launching this channel is a problem on Saorview, given that they've rubbish the kids' simulcasts etc on it already paid for by the license fee...

Elmo

Red Alert wrote: »

It's laughable that launching this channel is a problem on Saorview, given that they've rubbish the kids' simulcasts etc on it already paid for by the license fee...

Only because the Minister and Department prevented those simulcasts being moved off RTÉ2

The Cush

This from the Irish Times recently

As there is often a clash in the schedule, editorial meetings take place in the Oireachtas broadcasting unit the week before to decide which committee hearing merits being broadcast (they’re all online anyway, of course). “We have set up a small editorial board,” says Barrett, “and we don’t interfere.”

What is the Oireachtas TV editorial board?

An editorial board was established to oversee programming and to provide guidance to officials running the station. Fine Gael TDs Ceann Comhairle Sean Barrett; Cathaoirleach of the Seanad Paddy Burke; and chair of the working group of committee chairs, David Stanton, will also sit on the editorial board.

Three other parliamentarians will sit on the board - this will include Mr Whelan and two TDs, one from the Government and one from the opposition benches.

There is no additional allowance for those who take up a position on the board.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/labour-row-over-appointment-to-oireachtas-tv-body-30628549.html#sthash.Bisrhayw.dpuf

and the row ...

THE appointment of Labour Senator John Whelan to the editorial board of the new Oireachtas television station sparked a blazing row after the party's parliamentary meeting, the Irish Independent has learned.

Cork Senator John Gilroy is understood to have taken exception to the appointment and approached Labour chief whip Emmet Stagg after the party's weekly meeting last Wednesday night.

Sources claim Mr Gilroy raised concerns about the fact the party was not consulted before the appointment. The conversation, which took place in view of a number of Labour members, was described as "heated" and filled with "colourful language" by onlookers.

"There was words all right and it certainly wasn't language I would let children use," a Labour source said. Another party source said some members were annoyed they were not consulted about the appointment.

"If someone wanted it or not we should have been asked. It got people's backs up," the source said.

...

Mr Stagg said Mr Whelan, who is a former journalist, was appointed because he had "journalistic experience".

Mr Whelan, who was not at the meeting, said he was "disappointed" Mr Gilroy did not raise his objection to the appointment while he was present.

"It's a pity he didn't take the opportunity to deal with it upfront and to my face or in person when I'm at the parliamentary party meeting rather than whispering behind my back and doing damage when I'm not present," he said.

He pointed out that he had 30 years of media experience and was the party's communications spokesman in the Seanad.

He is also a member of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport and Communications and is a member of the Oireachtas Commission, which was instrumental in bringing forward plans for the new television station.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/labour-row-over-appointment-to-oireachtas-tv-body-30628549.html#sthash.Bisrhayw.dpuf

This from the minutes of the Houses Commission meeting last July

OIREACHTAS CHANNEL: PROPOSAL ON ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EDITORIAL BOARD

The Commission considered a proposal on establishment of an Editorial Board in the Houses to have responsibility for overseeing the broadcasting of parliamentary proceedings on the Oireachtas Channel.

The Commission approved the proposal subject to an amendment to the proposed membership of the Board. It was agreed that membership of the Board would consist of:
- the Ceann Comhairle (Chair of the Board);
- the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad;
- the Chairman of the Working Group of Committee Chairmen;
- one member of the Oireachtas Commission who shall be appointed from among the opposition members of the Commission; and
- three members of the Houses, one of whom shall be a member of Seanad Éireann.

The Commission further agreed to the appointment of Deputy John Browne to the Editorial Board as the representative of the Commission.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/commission/min20140715.pdf

The Cush

According to Mark Mulqueen on Twitter Saorview will be getting back to them with a quote for the cost of carriage.

https://twitter.com/MarkMulqueen/status/517221300956565504
https://twitter.com/MarkMulqueen/status/517241886445424640

mackersdublin

Is anybody getting tests on Ch 17 on Saorview

Over the last days, when I've checked it's just a 2rn clock

The Cush

mackersdublin wrote: »

Is anybody getting tests on Ch 17 on Saorview

Nothing since they switched off the test transmission last week and replaced it with a test card.

ourtrail

It's on the eVision network now too apparently.

Sam Russell

That is a scandal that they refuse to be on the national broadcasting network.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is a scandal that they refuse to be on the national broadcasting network.

No the national network refuses to take them! You've messed up their whole PR spin :rolleyes: