Dogs poisoned

snoman

'Fears for children expressed as dogs die after swallowing strychnine'

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fears-for-children-expressed-as-dogs-die-after-swallowing-strychnine-274432.html

This sounds awful. Especially as it is continuing over a long timespan.

aaakev

The fears for children bit is just scare mongering. Its most likely poisoned meat or a carcass of a dead animal which a kid is not going to pick up.

Poisoning is such a horrible form of pest control for this exact reason, its indiscriminate and will kill your dog or a bird of prey as quick as as its intended target which in this case must be a fox. Although if this is sheep country and there are people walking their dogs off the lead and its causing trouble for the farmers it could well be that dogs were the target

As for controlling foxes in high sheep areas, shooting is the most effective and humane way

snoman

It's hard to gauge what the target is, although I guess if the path is right next to sheep grazing then maybe it is farmers, but as you say it's a fairly indescriminate approach to pest control!

Would there not be guidelines for use of such poisons? I'm guessing you're right about the method ie carcass, but even so birds can carry and drop poison so the target area can increase, and also who/what picks it up, although I'd agree that children are probably not likely to.

aaakev

snoman wrote: »

It's hard to gauge what the target is, although I guess if the path is right next to sheep grazing then maybe it is farmers, but as you say it's a fairly indescriminate approach to pest control!

Would there not be guidelines for use of such poisons? I'm guessing you're right about the method ie carcass, but even so birds can carry and drop poison so the target area can increase, and also who/what picks it up, although I'd agree that children are probably not likely to.

Id be 99% certain the target is foxes especially if its been going on the last few months bacause foxes are raising their pups now and they would have been very active the last few months but like I said it could have been put there because of dogs. Off lead and roaming dogs can cause havoc in areas where there are sheep.

Yes there are strict guidelines in the use of poison. Its completely illegal!! You can only use poison on rodents and it has to be covered so non target animals can get at it

Capercaille

aaakev wrote: »

The fears for children bit is just scare mongering. Its most likely poisoned meat or a carcass of a dead animal which a kid is not going to pick up.

Poisoning is such a horrible form of pest control for this exact reason, its indiscriminate and will kill your dog or a bird of prey as quick as as its intended target which in this case must be a fox. Although if this is sheep country and there are people walking their dogs off the lead and its causing trouble for the farmers it could well be that dogs were the target

As for controlling foxes in high sheep areas, shooting is the most effective and humane way

0.015 gramms of Strychnine would kill a child. A person could be easily killed.

snoman

Capercaille wrote: »

0.015 gramms of Strychnine would kill a child. A person could be easily killed.

No doubting tha but maybe unlikely if poison in carcass?

Birdnuts

snoman wrote: »

It's hard to gauge what the target is, although I guess if the path is right next to sheep grazing then maybe it is farmers, but as you say it's a fairly indescriminate approach to pest control!

Would there not be guidelines for use of such poisons? I'm guessing you're right about the method ie carcass, but even so birds can carry and drop poison so the target area can increase, and also who/what picks it up, although I'd agree that children are probably not likely to.

The use of strychnine have been banned for over 20 years and the use of poisons to kill anything other than rodents was banned back in 2010, with the placing of poisons on carcasses or any type of meat having been banned a number of years previously. Anybody who suspects such illegal activity should immediatly report it to the Gardai or local NPWS ranger.

anniehoo

Is it not illegal to be in possession of strychnine in Ireland now? Such a horrible, horrible old school poison. Whoever is using this means business :mad:

It wouldn't be harmful to children in this context per se unless they ingested the "meat" of the carcass which is highly unlikely but this stuff is really the "underground" of poisons and I would fear if children could get hold of it in ANY shape or form, as even inhalation can be lethal for kids.

Capercaille

anniehoo wrote: »

It wouldn't be harmful to children in this context per se unless they ingested the "meat" of the carcass which is highly unlikely but this stuff is really the "underground" of poisons and I would fear if children could get hold of it in ANY shape or form, as even inhalation can be lethal for kids.

If you even touched a bait that had strychnine on it and you touched you mouth you could die. 0.015 gramms is a tiny amount. If somebody did die then the government might actually do something to stop poisoning.

snoman

Capercaille wrote: »

If you even touched a bait that had strychnine on it and you touched you mouth you could die. 0.015 gramms is a tiny amount. If somebody did die then the government might actually do something to stop poisoning.

This seems to have been happening since May. 3 medium sized dogs poisoned. I suspect that the reason that anyone is paying any attention now is because the last one was so close to a school, whilst this is wholly understandable it seems the indescriminate illegal use of poison on domesticated animals can be ignored.

anniehoo

Capercaille wrote: »

If you even touched a bait that had strychnine on it and you touched you mouth you could die. 0.015 gramms is a tiny amount.

Yes, absolutely agree it's a tiny amount that's required to be lethal (0.07gms if you weigh 70kg). My understanding is lethal dose is 1-2mg (0.001-0.002gm) orally per kilo of bodyweight. An average 5 year old (~10kg) would be what you're saying of 0.015gm.

Seriously scary stuff.

aaakev

Capercaille wrote: »

0.015 gramms of Strychnine would kill a child. A person could be easily killed.

Yes a person could easily be killed if they touched it but how likely is it that a person is going to be touching a carcass in a field? Very unlikely. It would not be in an accessible part of a field ether but most likely thrown in a ditch.

It would be highly unlikely that anyone would come in contact with it so Its just scare mongering.

Im not denying its serious, I am very against this sort of pest control and the person who put it there should be prosecuted severely but to say children are in danger is just sensationalism

snoman

aaakev wrote: »

Yes a person could easily be killed if they touched it but how likely is it that a person is going to be touching a carcass in a field? Very unlikely. It would not be in an accessible part of a field ether but most likely thrown in a ditch.

It would be highly unlikely that anyone would come in contact with it so Its just scare mongering.

Im not denying its serious, I am very against this sort of pest control and the person who put it there should be prosecuted severely but to say children are in danger is just sensationalism

It's probably the only way to get someone to take it seriously. And to be honest if carrion spread it around the area you wouldn't know where it would end up.

Capercaille

aaakev wrote: »

Yes a person could easily be killed if they touched it but how likely is it that a person is going to be touching a carcass in a field? Very unlikely. It would not be in an accessible part of a field ether but most likely thrown in a ditch.

It would be highly unlikely that anyone would come in contact with it so Its just scare mongering.

Im not denying its serious, I am very against this sort of pest control and the person who put it there should be prosecuted severely but to say children are in danger is just sensationalism

When I was a young child if I saw a dead fox/cat/lamb I would be over rooting at it. A curious child would do likewise. If the sheepfarmer was out to poison dogs he/she would put it in an accessible place to poison the dogs (near the walking path). He's not going to put it in some inaccessible place where the dogs won't get at it.

snoman

Capercaille wrote: »

When I was a young child if I saw a dead fox/cat/lamb I would be over rooting at it. A curious child would do likewise. If the sheepfarmer was out to poison dogs he/she would put it in an accessible place to poison the dogs (near the walking path). He's not going to put it in some inaccessible place where the dogs won't get at it.

.... but realistically farmers wouldn't put poison on a public path next to sheep grazing surely?? That would be total overreaction to a mere possibility of lamb loss.

Capercaille

snoman wrote: »

.... but realistically farmers wouldn't put poison on a public path next to sheep grazing surely?? That would be total overreaction to a mere possibility of lamb loss.

How many sheep farmers do you know?

snoman

Capercaille wrote: »

How many sheep farmers do you know?

Ahmm...... one - but not very well!!

maggiepip

snoman wrote: »

Ahmm...... one - but not very well!!

I would imagine sheep farmers wouldnt use it near grazing too.

aaakev

Capercaille wrote: »

When I was a young child if I saw a dead fox/cat/lamb I would be over rooting at it. A curious child would do likewise. If the sheepfarmer was out to poison dogs he/she would put it in an accessible place to poison the dogs (near the walking path). He's not going to put it in some inaccessible place where the dogs won't get at it.

true enough, i would have been too. it wouldnt need to be near the walking path for dogs to access it, dogs go into ditches and through bushes that a person is not going to go and if the smell of met is there a dog will go investigate it. that said, i still think the bait was laid for foxes because the time scale matches when they would be most active and the farmer would have lambs on the ground

Capercaille wrote: »

How many sheep farmers do you know?

I personally know quite a few, none who would use poison though. I shoot pests, foxes ect, for a lot of sheep farmers and have never come across poison. Most of them have their own dog that goes into the field with them so they would be shooting themselves in the foot laying poison.

Capercaille

aaakev wrote: »

true enough, i would have been too. it wouldnt need to be near the walking path for dogs to access it, dogs go into ditches and through bushes that a person is not going to go and if the smell of met is there a dog will go investigate it. that said, i still think the bait was laid for foxes because the time scale matches when they would be most active and the farmer would have lambs on the ground



.

Most spring born lambs would be too large for foxes now.

I personally know quite a few, none who would use poison though. I shoot pests, foxes ect, for a lot of sheep farmers and have never come across poison. Most of them have their own dog that goes into the field with them so they would be shooting themselves in the foot laying poison

The people laying strychnine, given how dangerous it is, don't care what is killed.

aaakev

Capercaille wrote: »

Most spring born lambs would be too large for foxes now.


The people laying strychnine, given how dangerous it is, don't care what is killed.

The op said this is going back a few months, spring lambs would have been ripe for the picking amd now fox cubs will be starting to roam a bit further from the den. Time frame fits...

On your second point, I agree 100%

zoe 3619

As I understand it the poison has been left in at least three popular dog walking spots not too far apart.ballycugaran ( near killaloe) is coilte forrestry land.there's no sheep up there,so would suspect malicious intent,rather than a farmer trying to protect his flock.

aaakev

zoe 3619 wrote: »

As I understand it the poison has been left in at least three popular dog walking spots not too far apart.ballycugaran ( near killaloe) is coilte forrestry land.there's no sheep up there,so would suspect malicious intent,rather than a farmer trying to protect his flock.

Thats a very different story from the one in the OP and alot more serious

angeldaisy

Further to this, it has been just reported on Facebook by a local animal rescue that poisoned tennis balls/ small balls have been found in the UL area.

whether this is true or not, please be careful with pets anywhere in this area and indeed children.