Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

Munster13

hendo12 wrote: »

What about convert James Cronin into a tight head

If they could, him and Killer as the front row, that would be a powerful 1 and 3

The Lost Sheep

hendo12 wrote: »

What about convert James Cronin into a tight head

He's played there before afaik. Was part of serious u18 pack in Highfield. From that team Himself, Timmy Ryan's younger Brother, Paddy, and Kevin O Byrne are all or have played pro rugby and all in the front row.

Hurk

hendo12 wrote: »

What about convert James Cronin into a tight head

Apparently, this is on the cards. He's fairly light for a loosehead so would be one of the lightest tightheads around. Would love to see him give it a shot.

Podge_irl

I'm sorry, but a 6 month contract while someone else gets up to speed makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This is clearly designed around bringing in a prop after the RWC - if they can't get a player up the right standard Botha may be extended to the end of the season but there is only one goal in mind here.

case885

Hurk wrote:

Apparently, this is on the cards. He's fairly light for a loosehead so would be one of the lightest tightheads around. Would love to see him give it a shot.

He's listed at 118 kg so is a heavy LH. I don't think that is a solution to our problem though, Cronin is going very well at LH and a switch could be a setback if it fails.

Hurk

case885 wrote: »

He's listed at 118 kg so is a heavy LH. I don't think that is a solution to our problem though, Cronin is going very well at LH and a switch could be a setback if it fails.

He's nowhere near that. Ya, he's a great loosehead with a high ceiling but there's a serious issue at tighthead. Just heard it was being looked at.

case885

Hurk wrote:

He's nowhere near that. Ya, he's a great loosehead with a high ceiling but there's a serious issue at tighthead. Just heard it was being looked at.

Does seem a bit much but Munster list him at that. He's definitely around the 115 kg mark.

hendo12

Hire Tadhg Furlong and it would be an end to the Munster's problem at TH

hendo12

hendo12 wrote: »

Hire Tadhg Furlong and it would be an end to the Munster's problem at TH

Ross is the one for tempting. No chance Leinster let Moore or Furlong go anywhere.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Ross is the one for tempting. No chance Leinster let Moore or Furlong go anywhere.

You sure?

hendo12

I heard today David Nucifora has advised Taghg Furlong to move to Munster

case885

Deleted User wrote: »

Ross is the one for tempting. No chance Leinster let Moore or Furlong go anywhere.

It would come down to the players themselves at the end of the day, but with Moore and Ross going to the RWC Furlong will be getting plenty game time. I would love to see Furlong at Munster though, has a huge future ahead of him.
Cant see Ross coming to Munster tbh.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

You sure?

yup, Leinster need two tight heads minimum. Furlong and Moore have been with Leinster stince the start and have developed v nicely considering they're both babies in TH terms. They could both easily have 10+ years of rugby to go.

Ross on the other hand, whilst Ireland's #1 does not have an awful lot of miles left on the clock. He could certainly be a viable option as a starter for Munster for 12 months from Dec onwards and play second fiddle to 'someone' for 2016 season.

From Nucifora's point of view, it would make more sense to try to get Ross into the Munster setup as it would mean that Munster would still very much be aware that they'd need to develop another TH themselves. Furlong, with 10+ years of rugby in him wouldn't provide that impetus and pressure, and would instead simply kick the TH 'conundrum' down the road for 15 months, and eastwardly!

Also - case885 above is spot on. Ross is the one for tempting! He's far more likely to be interested in the move than Furlong imo.

Cookiemunster

case885 wrote: »

It would come down to the players themselves at the end of the day, but with Moore and Ross going to the RWC Furlong will be getting plenty game time. I would love to see Furlong at Munster though, has a huge future ahead of him.
Cant see Ross coming to Munster tbh.

There isn't a hope of it happening. He'll be 36 shortly after the world cup. He's actually two weeks older than Botha.

irishbucsfan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There isn't a hope of it happening. He'll be 36 shortly after the world cup. He's actually two weeks older than Botha.

He hasn't got the same mileage though. The guy is starting at 3 for a grand slam hopeful this weekend. It's hard to believe he won't be suitable for Munster next season should he choose to continue playing.

Hagz

But he's already signed a 1 year extension with Leinster that sees him out to 2016 hasn't he? Unless Munster get him on loan I don't see him going south.

If Nucifora is going to send anyone south it should be a centre from Ulster.

TommyOM

Did Munster really need to be sent centres from Ulster and props from Leinster? I am sure they are more than capable of producing their own players. Why should Leinster and Ulster have to give up their rising talents?

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

Did Munster really need to be sent centres from Ulster and props from Leinster? I am sure they are more than capable of producing their own players. Why should Leinster and Ulster have to give up their rising talents?

Because the IRFU's aim is to create a better Irish Rugby landscape, which means a strong national side and 4 strong provinces.

Where there's excess talent that might be 'wasted' or 'better served' if relocated, then that opportunity should be at least extended to the individual.

awec

TommyOM wrote: »

Did Munster really need to be sent centres from Ulster and props from Leinster? I am sure they are more than capable of producing their own players. Why should Leinster and Ulster have to give up their rising talents?

Because the IRFU want as much of their talent to be playing as often as possible. The provinces are there to provide players for Ireland.

The Lost Sheep

TommyOM wrote: »

Did Munster really need to be sent centres from Ulster and props from Leinster? I am sure they are more than capable of producing their own players. Why should Leinster and Ulster have to give up their rising talents?

Yes we do as in the case of centres we are completely incapable of producing many/any to the required level and haven't been for a while
Standard of coaching of back play at most levels in Munster clubs and schools is crap. Leinster and Ulster would be losing players they mightn't need or have huge need for due to having other options

awec

The player themselves might see it as good for their career.

Second choice with the odd few minutes here and there at their current province or first choice, best-in-position at another province.

phog

TommyOM wrote: »

Why should Leinster and Ulster have to give up their rising talents?

I'm not sure if you're serious or understand why the provinces exist but if Jones stayed in Leinster it's doubtful he'd be in the 23 for Ireland this 6Ns.

evolving tipperary

Ross is heading towards the status of beaten docket - he is really pulling performances out of the bag for Ireland at the moment - but the end is nigh...

evolving tipperary

Coaching of back play is crap? Murray? Earls? JJ? Ronan O'Mahony? Zebo?

Hagz

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Coaching of back play is crap? Murray? Earls? JJ? Ronan O'Mahony? Zebo?

I think he was talking about coaching at a lower level. And none of those players you've mentioned are centres aside from Earls.

evolving tipperary

You'll have to reread it: Standard of coaching of back play at most levels in Munster clubs and schools is crap.

Backplay....not centers....

Hagz

evolving tipperary wrote: »

You'll have to reread it:

Ah listen. I'm not going to entertain what else you have to say if you're starting your posts like that.

Good luck.

evolving tipperary

That's a bit touchy - was just outlining my understanding of what was written.

athtrasna

TommyOM wrote: »

Did Munster really need to be sent centres from Ulster and props from Leinster? I am sure they are more than capable of producing their own players. Why should Leinster and Ulster have to give up their rising talents?

Because their academies are much bigger than Munster's and there simply aren't enough senior places?

awec

To be fair, The Lost Sheep is pretty informed about this sort of thing I think. If he's saying the coaching is poor I bet it's poor.

Bridge93

Ulster wouldn't have that much more to choose from than Munster. Leinster obviously dwarf all in terms of the pool to pick from but are still producing comfortably more than munster relative to size. Saying it isn't so is sticking your head in the sand.
The last couple of Irish 20s squads and interpros at all levels tell a lot.
If Munster get their youth set up in gear, Irish rugby will really be tapping into nearly all it's talent pool.

realoutlook

athtrasna wrote: »

Because their academies are much bigger than Munster's and there simply aren't enough senior places?

the academy size between the provinces does not differ that much..

Leinster - 23
Munster - 20
Ulster - 18
Connacht - 17

athtrasna

realoutlook wrote: »

the academy size between the provinces does not differ that much..

Leinster - 23
Munster - 20
Ulster - 18
Connacht - 17

I thought I read somewhere that the Leinster academy was over 40..hmmm, must look again

CIARAN_BOYLE

athtrasna wrote: »

I thought I read somewhere that the Leinster academy was over 40..hmmm, must look again

The academies have similatsimilar numbers, Leinster probably have more players in their sub academy than the other 3 provinces put together.

The Lost Sheep

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Coaching of back play is crap? Murray? Earls? JJ? Ronan O'Mahony? Zebo?

Outside backs so disregard Murray and that's still 4 players in x years. Coaching at age grade level in back play in most cases is crap and I speak as a referee and coach and see more of this kind of rugby than most here.

Hagz wrote: »

I think he was talking about coaching at a lower level. And none of those players you've mentioned are centres aside from Earls.

+1

evolving tipperary wrote: »

You'll have to reread it: Standard of coaching of back play at most levels in Munster clubs and schools is crap.

Backplay....not centers....

It is though from my experience of coaching and refereeing not to mention when I played. Fine at producing forwards but back play. Please. Munster Junior Cup thinking still dominates and I don't mean the schools cup. 10 men rugby if that still dominates thoughts of way too many coaches

athtrasna wrote: »

Because their academies are much bigger than Munster's and there simply aren't enough senior places?

Not at all and while Leinster do have much bigger academy than other provinces they also have most players fighting to get an academy place.

Bridge93 wrote: »

Ulster wouldn't have that much more to choose from than Munster. Leinster obviously dwarf all in terms of the pool to pick from but are still producing comfortably more than munster relative to size. Saying it isn't so is sticking your head in the sand.
The last couple of Irish 20s squads and interpros at all levels tell a lot.
If Munster get their youth set up in gear, Irish rugby will really be tapping into nearly all it's talent pool.

Ulster have far more playing schoolboy rugby. Much less playing youths club rugby but still more than in Munster
By youth set up do you mean all kids playing rugby under age of 18/19 or youths rugby? Munster needs to improve the club youths rugby structure and solve the deep and long lasting problems that exist in age grade rugby. Munster need to solve once and for all the ****storm that is the clubs versus schools debate in Limerick-North Munster

athtrasna wrote: »

I thought I read somewhere that the Leinster academy was over 40..hmmm, must look again

Its nowhere near that. Sub academy perhaps but academy has never been that much above 20

Micky Dolenz

The club game needs to get sorted in limerick. I remember as a kid going to league games and there being thousands of people there. Went to a game last season and the crowd was thin. It's a real pity.

evolving tipperary

Every province/team has its blind spots. It just seems like a sweeping statement to suggest that coaching in Munster for outside backs is crap...

What makes it crap? Is it the structure or neglect?

awec

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The club game needs to get sorted in limerick. I remember as a kid going to league games and there being thousands of people there. Went to a game last season and the crowd was thin. It's a real pity.

That's probably as a result of Munster now playing every week, no?

cork has its issues as well its still very difficult to get looked at if you dont go to christians or pres. there is the odd outlier like james cronin but for the most part its dominated by those two and i know personally growing up i saw/played against players that where more than capable that never got looked at because of this. i think the only game i saw a munster development coach at while playing underage was at a con game that pres released some players for

evolving tipperary

And there being so many types of sport to follow and attend.

Cookiemunster

Beatrice Warm Halogen wrote: »

cork has its issues as well its still very difficult to get looked at if you dont go to christians or pres. there is the odd outlier like james cronin but for the most part its dominated by those two and i know personally growing up i saw/played against players that where more than capable that never got looked at because of this. i think the only game i saw a munster development coach at while playing underage was at a con game that pres released some players for

That's a problem across the province. It's very difficult to be picked up if you don't go to one of the 8 senior cup schools. To add to that issue, those schools generally don't let players play club rugby even if they're not getting into the match day panel, so a lot of young players stop playing as the can't get on the pitch.

The Lost Sheep

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The club game needs to get sorted in limerick. I remember as a kid going to league games and there being thousands of people there. Went to a game last season and the crowd was thin. It's a real pity.

How would you sort it out and by sort it out what do you mean. 000s were going to club games when province wasn't the big thing.

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Every province/team has its blind spots. It just seems like a sweeping statement to suggest that coaching in Munster for outside backs is crap...

What makes it crap? Is it the structure or neglect?

Coaching standards are poor relative to elsewhere, philosophy of coaching in clubs is overwhelmingly forwards dominated and backs coaching isn't as good

Beatrice Warm Halogen wrote: »

cork has its issues as well its still very difficult to get looked at if you dont go to christians or pres. there is the odd outlier like james cronin but for the most part its dominated by those two and i know personally growing up i saw/played against players that where more than capable that never got looked at because of this. i think the only game i saw a munster development coach at while playing underage was at a con game that pres released some players for

Cork has huge issues as does all the province. To be fair there is more than the odd outlier as Highfield and Sundays Well are always good for producing the odd player or two to a decent level every couple of years.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That's a problem across the province. It's very difficult to be picked up if you don't go to one of the 8 senior cup schools. To add to that issue, those schools generally don't let players play club rugby even if they're not getting into the match day panel, so a lot of young players stop playing as the can't get on the pitch.

It is and isn't very difficult to get "picked up" if not in an A school. The schools in Limerick are meant to nominate a squad of 28 for their senior cup squad and then the rest of the players in the school are then eligible to play clubs(youths) rugby but that doesn't happen or its a mess and players miss out on playing games when they shouldn't be

phog

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The club game needs to get sorted in limerick. I remember as a kid going to league games and there being thousands of people there. Went to a game last season and the crowd was thin. It's a real pity.

I'm not sure it's just a Limerick thing, the AIL has lost a lot of the it's appeal for supporters and of club games clashing with other club games in a samll city like Limerick is daft or worse clashing with provincial games.

Some of the drop off is probably down to how people want to spend their disposable income too and what people are spending in following their provinces. There might be too much rugby on TV nowadays too.

phog

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The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

I'm not sure it's just a Limerick thing, the AIL has lost a lot of the it's appeal for supporters and of club games clashing with other club games in a samll city like Limerick is daft or worse clashing with provincial games.

Some of the drop off is probably down to how people want to spend their disposable income too and what people are spending in following their provinces. There might be too much rugby on TV nowadays too.

Clashing with provincial games is an annoyance but I have no problem with club games clashing. You go into unfair advantage to clubs re promotion/relegation etc. All games kickoff 2.30pm unless you have very good reason to change it.
If you don't want club games clashing by how much would you be staggering kickoff times?

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Clashing with provincial games is an annoyance but I have no problem with club games clashing. You go into unfair advantage to clubs re promotion/relegation etc. All games kickoff 2.30pm unless you have very good reason to change it.
If you don't want club games clashing by how much would you be staggering kickoff times?

We've had Friday nights games for a few years now and I haven't heard much noise about clubs getting an unfair advantage.

If everyone is happy with the support they get then I wouldn't change anything, if not, something has to be changed.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

We've had Friday nights games for a few years now and I haven't heard much noise about clubs getting an unfair advantage.

If everyone is happy with the support they get then I wouldn't change anything, if not, something has to be changed.

The clubs don't want or see a need for change. Staggering kick off times wont see people going to more than one game on a day. Wont see bigger/much bigger crowds going to club games.
There has been reviews of the league over recent seasons and there was no real complaints about games clashing in cities. Do you want the same thing done for the junior league and St Marys games clashing with other sides.

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The clubs don't want or see a need for change. Staggering kick off times wont see people going to more than one game on a day. Wont see bigger/much bigger crowds going to club games.
There has been reviews of the league over recent seasons and there was no real complaints about games clashing in cities. Do you want the same thing done for the junior league and St Marys games clashing with other sides.

So the clubs are happy with their current support levels? Strange.

The Lost Sheep

phog wrote: »

So the clubs are happy with their current support levels? Strange.

Where have I said or implied clubs are happy. A lot of the clubs are doing ok and making the changes you propose wont make crowds come in. You have to look elsewhere and other iniatives. Club games clash in cities. Staggering kickoffs wont make a difference.

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Where have I said or implied clubs are happy. A lot of the clubs are doing ok and making the changes you propose wont make crowds come in. You have to look elsewhere and other iniatives. Club games clash in cities. Staggering kickoffs wont make a difference.

You said clubs don't want or see a need for change, that to me implies they're happy with the status quo.

As for the piece in bold, how do you know unless you try it?

We've seen the provinces support drop significantly by clashing with 6Ns games, why couldn't the same be said for clubs clashing with provincial games or with other club games in the same city.