Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

thomond2006

The training pics show TB involved in a training move and JJ holding a tackle bag.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/20558.php

Perhaps I'm on to something. :pac:

Mahatma Geansai

Someone with some photoshop skills could do some damage with this photo. :pac:

CatFromHue

Weren't you allowed pretty much seal off the rucks back then so the opposition couldn't really compete, so they were running down the clock knowing Toulouse wouldn't have much of a chance to get the ball.

I think I remember Toulouse giving out about it after the game.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

Weren't you allowed pretty much seal off the rucks back then so the opposition couldn't really compete, so they were running down the clock knowing Toulouse wouldn't have much of a chance to get the ball.

I think I remember Toulouse giving out about it after the game.

Tackler didn't have to roll away I think?

Or am I dreaming that up?

total former

CatFromHue wrote: »

Weren't you allowed pretty much seal off the rucks back then so the opposition couldn't really compete, so they were running down the clock knowing Toulouse wouldn't have much of a chance to get the ball.

I think I remember Toulouse giving out about it after the game.

The rules themselves haven't changed but refs were directed to be more pro-active on enforcing the team in possession staying on their feet and allowing the contest. The last few minutes of that game must have been so frustrating for Toulouse.

Buer

Correct, the referees were instructed to be more vigilant on the matter. I believe in 2010 there was a conference for referees that used footage of Leinster and Munster including the closing minutes of the 2008 HEC final as an example of what to be on the look out for.

Essentially a player would go into contact, a couple of players would immediately plough in over him and go over the ball without supporting their weight and repeat. A contest was near impossible.

Fireball07

I remember Ireland were playing Wales around then too, I think it must have been 2008, I'm fairly sure it was one of the years Wales won a grand slam. They were winning by around 4 points and just played out the last 5 or 6 minutes going from ruck to ruck and there it was pretty much impossible for Ireland to compete.


It's much better now tbf.

phog

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Much of your interpretation consists of seeing what you choose to see given the information available. Hanrahan and Keatley were our only fit 10's and managing injury for much of the season; it didn't make sense to start both of them every week.

People want to paint Axel as the bad guy in this, and as such, are clinging to any perceived evidence.

Its Axel, there must be something wrong. Same with Penney last year.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Its Axel, there must be something wrong. Same with Penney last year.

Please point out where TF or myself said or implied there is "something wrong" in general or "something wrong" with Foley. We have both pointed out that this was not our aim.

total former

phog wrote: »

Its Axel, there must be something wrong. Same with Penney last year.

All I said was that Foley doesn't really rate JJ, even you agree with that.

I don't see anything wrong with a coach not rating a player; he's always going to have favourites and not-so-favourties. You're the only one who seems to think there is anything unusual or objectionable about this, but you've yet to explain why.

Would you care to make a positive contribution?

phog

What's the weather forecast in Belfast for the game on Saturday?

Mahatma Geansai

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Someone with some photoshop skills could do some damage with this photo

flangemeistro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No he said someone "WITH photoshop skills"

awec

phog wrote: »

What's the weather forecast in Belfast for the game on Saturday?

Rain in the morning and hopefully dry out in the afternoon.

But it's Ireland so it could just rain all day.

I hope it stays dry anyway, I think a miserable raining day would suit Munster better.

total former

phog wrote: »

What's the weather forecast in Belfast for the game on Saturday?

Dark and gloomy outlook for JJ Hanrahan, giving way to bright and breezy spells for Tyler Bleyendall.

flangemeistro

flangemeistro wrote: »

No he said someone "WITH photoshop skills"

What are you talking about? This is a completely separate unedited photo I took on a night out after the Lions tour.


Jeeez.

case885

Deleted User wrote:

What are you talking about? This is a completely separate unedited photo I took on a night out after the Lions tour.

Deleted User wrote:

Jeeez.

Were you the lucky girl that night? :O

jm08

total former wrote: »

All I said was that Foley doesn't really rate JJ, even you agree with that.

I don't see anything wrong with a coach not rating a player; he's always going to have favourites and not-so-favourties. You're the only one who seems to think there is anything unusual or objectionable about this, but you've yet to explain why.

Would you care to make a positive contribution?

JJ was offered a 3 year contract, so he must rate him. Usually they are 2 years unless you are a bit special like Jack O'Donoghue, who also got a 3 year contract.

Axel wanted JJ to play a bit more at 12, JJ wanted to play 10.

phog

jm08 wrote: »

JJ was offered a 3 year contract, so he must rate him. Usually they are 2 years unless you are a bit special like Jack O'Donoghue, who also got a 3 year contract.

Axel wanted JJ to play a bit more at 12, JJ wanted to play 10.

There you go again with more facts.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

JJ was offered a 3 year contract

Link?

Edit: Nevermind, widely reported.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/irish/2015/0122/674817-hanrahan-move/

On your 'he rates him' point, all it really proves is that Foley felt he was worth his place in the squad long term. So it depends what you mean by "he must rate him". Rate him as a starter, bencher? What exactly?

I could be wrong and have egg on my face but given JJ's recent gametime it really wouldn't surprise me if TB is put ahead of him.

phog wrote: »

There you go again with more facts.

What's with the passive aggressiveness again? What are comments like this contributing?

total former

Exactly. If he was offered a contract and still decided to move for rugby reasons, then he obviously wasn't confident about his prospects of first team rugby next season, nor should he be given the arrival of Bleyendall.

I'm a little perplexed as to what people actually disagree with.

Cookiemunster

thomond2006 wrote: »

Link?

Edit: Nevermind, widely reported.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/irish/2015/0122/674817-hanrahan-move/

On your 'he rates him' point, all it really proves is that Foley felt he was worth his place in the squad long term. So it depends what you mean by "he must rate him". Rate him as a starter, bencher? What exactly?

I could be wrong and have egg on my face but given JJ's recent gametime it really wouldn't surprise me if TB is put ahead of him.

What's with the passive aggressiveness again? What are comments like this contributing?

Ah come on now. The average rugby contract is 2 years. You don't offer a 3 year contract (with wages close to the Northampton offer) to someone who you intend to leave on the bench for 3 years. Foley didn't think he was ready this year. That doesn't mean that he didn't intend to use him in the future.

thomond2006

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Ah come on now. The average rugby contract is 2 years. You don't offer a 3 year contract (with wages close to the Northampton offer) to someone who you intend to leave on the bench for 3 years. Foley didn't think he was ready this year. That doesn't mean that he didn't intend to use him in the future.

Were wages close to the Northampton offer? My understanding was Munster couldn't / were not willing to match that offer. (Open to correction on that)

Aside from that, perhaps it's fair to suggest that JJ disagrees and believed he was going to stay on the bench!

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Were wages close to the Northampton offer? My understanding was Munster couldn't / were not willing to match that offer. (Open to correction on that)

Aside from that, perhaps it's fair to suggest that JJ disagrees that he wouldn't have been on the bench!

From what ROG said in various interviews etc, my understanding was that JJ is in a hurry and he wants to play at 10 only. I also got the impression from what he said that JJ is going for 2 years, hopes to get onto the Ireland radar and then hopes to come back so that he will be in with a better chance for Ireland.

I simply interpret that he thinks he has a better chance of getting gametime at 10 with Northampton rather than Munster who have Keatley & Tyler. I can see why he might want to go because at Munster he will be competing against 2 players (and Tyler will need a decent run of games to bed him in at the start of next season) whereas at Northampton its basically Myler and himself.

I say fairplay to JJ, I'd prefer if to do his learning and make his mistakes on someone else's time and come back a better player to Munster!

awec

At Munster he'd have been competing against Keatley. If he can't oust Keatley from the 10 spot he has no hope of playing for Ireland.

jm08

awec wrote: »

At Munster he'd have been competing against Keatley. If he can't oust Keatley from the 10 spot he has no hope of playing for Ireland.

Sexton hadn't a hope of ousting Contepomi at Leinster when he was JJ's age (22). Cheika even had Isa ahead of Sexton at one stage (while Sexton was left playing AIL).

edit: Myler is into his 30s as well.

Cookiemunster

There's an interview with Foley on this weeks Down the Blindside pod (From 1m 20 in). He says it's great to see TB get 60 mins for the A team, but that while he could get more game time, he's unfortunate that all the games now are so important. It's unlikely we'll see him this season.

He also says that POC is over the shoulder injury.

2smiggy

jm08 wrote: »

Sexton hadn't a hope of ousting Contepomi at Leinster when he was JJ's age (22). Cheika even had Isa ahead of Sexton at one stage (while Sexton was left playing AIL).

edit: Myler is into his 30s as well.

Myler is only 30, and he has been fairly good for them for a good few years. I'd be very surprised to see Hanrahan picked ahead of him to be honest

Riskymove

total former wrote: »

I'm a little perplexed as to what people actually disagree with.

well for me, just because you are not selected number 1 in a position doesn't mean you are "not rated" at all by the coach

Buer

2smiggy wrote: »

Myler is only 30, and he has been fairly good for them for a good few years. I'd be very surprised to see Hanrahan picked ahead of him to be honest

I'd be very surprised if he got anything more than 30% of games at 10 next season. Myler is part of the furniture there. He's about to his 2,000 minutes this season with 26 starts and continues to be their lynchpin.

He is to Northampton what Alex King was to Wasps, underrated by others but adored within the club.

Hanrahan will get a crack at the jersey, I'm sure, but I can't see him taking it off Myler in his first season.

The Lost Sheep

Don't forget to keep voting for Jack O Donoghue for pro12 try of the season
He's now in 2nd place
http://www1.skysports.com/pro12-try-of-the-season

thomond2006

Munster:
Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Andrew Smith, Denis Hurley, Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Eusebio Guinazu, Stephen Archer; Donnacha Ryan, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony Capt., Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, John Ryan, BJ Botha, Billy Holland, Jack O'Donoghue, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Ronan O'Mahony.

Great to see Archer starting! Guinazu over Casey is a bit of a surprise.

ssaye2

Ulster team & replacements to play Munster, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Saturday 9th May (14:40 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; T Bowe, J Payne, D Cave, P Nelson, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Best (C), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, I Henderson, C Henry, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, B Ross, R Diack, C Ross, P Marshall, I Humphreys, S McCloskey.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Andrew Smith, Denis Hurley, Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Eusebio Guinazu, Stephen Archer; Donnacha Ryan, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony Capt., Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, John Ryan, BJ Botha, Billy Holland, Jack O'Donoghue, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Ronan O'Mahony.

Great to see Archer starting! Guinazu over Casey is a bit of a surprise.

JJ must be seen to be ahead of a fit Tyler :cool:

Micky Dolenz

Two strong teams. This is gonna be good

total former

phog wrote: »

JJ must be seen to be ahead of a fit Tyler :cool:

Or to put it another way, JJ's inclusion means Tyler must not be fit yet.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

JJ must be seen to be ahead of a fit Tyler :cool:

And accusing me of painting Foley as the bad guy?

Mahatma Geansai

Quite evenly matches sides on paper, but I'd give Munster the edge. Munster should be a decent-bit stronger in the back five of the pack and in the back three, while Ulster only clear advantage is in the centre. I'd give Ulster an edge at halfback and in the frontrow, but there shouldn't be too much between those units.

The home-town advantage will make Ulster favourites for the game, but it should be a close fought battle. Hopefully our nice lads manage to come away injury-free from the most vicious/violent side in the league :pac:

I believe that Casey was touch-and-go to make the squad, so its understandable that Guinazu gets the nod. His scrummaging should help too.

Cookiemunster

total former wrote: »

Or to put it another way, JJ's inclusion means Tyler must not be fit yet.

He's obviously not fit enough after only playing 60mins in 7 months. That's why he was never going to be in the 23 this week and is unlikely to be in any squads this season.

total former

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He's obviously not fit enough after only playing 60mins in 7 months. That's why he was never going to be in the 23 this week and is unlikely to be in any squads this season.

Yeah, I know, I was just having a little joke there. He was never going to be thrown into a game of this importance and intensity after one 'A' appearance.

jm08

2smiggy wrote: »

Myler is only 30, and he has been fairly good for them for a good few years. I'd be very surprised to see Hanrahan picked ahead of him to be honest

Myler has been great for Northampton, but is limited. After their crashing out of Champs Cup, I'd say they will have an open mind about who starts at 10.

Fireball07

Two very strong teams there. I can't help but think that we'd be a little bit stronger with Earls at 13 and ROM on the wing. As I've said all season Hurley/Smith lacks a bit of creativity and they are very similar, whereas Hurley links superbly with Earls. Although Earls is better on the wing.


I don't really see either team having an advantage anywhere on the pitch tbh, so home advantage is something which may swing it. But if we play it right tactically, we might be able to sneak it. Shouldn't be more than a score in it either way. No Gilroy is a big boost to us.

case885

Is Conway injured? Haven't seen him in ages

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

And accusing me of painting Foley as the bad guy?

Absolutely not.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Absolutely not.

Cool. That definitely was not my intention.

Given the comments we've seen from Foley this week it looks like Bleyendaal won't be used or isn't ready to be used with the seniors this year. It's great to have him back in case something happens to Keatley or JJ and I'm pretty excited to see what he and Saili can offer next year as ball playing midfield options. Hurley has been great this year considering he was a late convert to 12.

I'm not so confident about tomorrow to be honest.

CatFromHue

If I were to include Tyler B in a match squad it wouldn't be for tomorrow's game, maybe next week at home to easier opposition.

the_blackstuff

Had a look at Saili this morning with the blues. he's with a team that at getting beaten up everywhere they turn at the minute and he still looks decent. If anyone saw the game his range of passing was super. 2 in particular long passes one off each hand to find wingers, one resulting in a try after he made a break himself. He can only make things better!

Kirk Van Houten

the_blackstuff wrote: »

Had a look at Saili this morning with the blues. he's with a team that at getting beaten up everywhere they turn at the minute and he still looks decent. If anyone saw the game his range of passing was super. 2 in particular long passes one off each hand to find wingers, one resulting in a try after he made a break himself. He can only make things better!

Himself and Henshaw will make a great pairing next season.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

If I were to include Tyler B in a match squad it wouldn't be for tomorrow's game, maybe next week at home to easier opposition.

See posts #5666 & #5669

ouncer

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Himself and Henshaw will make a great pairing next season.

Even if it did come to pass that Robbie were to leave Connacht at the end of the season, sorry but he won't be much use to anybody. If you take into account the rugby world cup, the six nations and player welfare then Robbie won't be seeing much pro12 rugby next year. So it would be daft for either Leinster or Munster to poach him for the upcoming season. All it would create is bad blood with no benefit to anybody