Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

slingerz

Munster should of course be aware of the possibity of bringing players in from other provinces/clubs. Thats the name of the game

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

You can't forget Reddan either. All players who have been central to Leinster success over recent years.

Sure Reddan started his provincial rugby with Connacht, and his father played his rugby out west as well, they deserve some credit at least!

evolving tipperary

POACHED!!!!! we develop young players- leinster take finished products - Jones was an injury wreck - Keatley thrown away to connacht, Ronan never got a game.... - Ian Dowling was developed from League

Trevor Hogan?

evolving tipperary

It goes in all directions....but this Leinster lad likes to think Leinster is pretty in white and pure with with no poaching!

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

POACHED!!!!! we develop young players- leinster take finished products - Jones was an injury wreck - Keatley thrown away to connacht, Ronan never got a game.... - Ian Dowling was developed from League
Trevor Hogan?

+ Stephen Keogh
Brian O'Meara?

evolving tipperary

That doesn't mean Leinster haven't tried to "poach"... - soccer terminology!

TommyOM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

POACHED!!!!! we develop young player s- leinster take finished products - Jones was an injury wreck - Keatley thrown away to connacht, Ronan never got a game.... - Ian Dowling was developed from League

Trevor Hogan?

Leinster take them from other clubs. Munster actually go for young players that are going to be stars of clubs like Leinster and Connacht and try entice them away. This is one of the reasons that Leinster have been forced to offer full contracts to academy prospects in recent years.

If Munster had their way over the years then they would have a squad featuring Luke Fitzgerald, Luke McGrath, Rhys Ruddock, Andrew Conway, Robbie Henshaw, Tiernan O'Halloran, Jordan Coughlan.

It's definitely a recent policy. I've seen no other team make beelines for upcoming young prospects like Munster.

TommyOM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

It goes in all directions....but this Leinster lad likes to think Leinster is pretty in white and pure with with no poaching!

Name me one under 25 player from Munster that Leinster have tried to sign.

evolving tipperary

hahahaah Evil Munster! Poaching kids! hahahaha - Are you for real, lad?

TommyOM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

hahahaah Evil Munster! Poaching kids! hahahaha - Are you for real, lad?

No answer. I rest my case.

hendo12

I can't understand the biting about 'poaching'. Ireland is a small rugby country. We've successfully replaced ROG Drico and it looks like Henderson will replace POC. No point in these players going elsewhere if they are good enough for other provinces. People make the point about taking young Leinster players well there are more rugby schools in Dublin than the rest of the country put together

It's a simple numbers game. If the Leinster academy weren't producing more than the others you'd be worried about it!

Every so often there's no room at Leinster for those guys, so they go elsewhere. Its best for Irish rugby if it's to an Irish team.

TommyOM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a simple numbers game. If the Leinster academy weren't producing more than the others you'd be worried about it!

Every so often there's no room at Leinster for those guys, so they go elsewhere. Its best for Irish rugby if it's to an Irish team.

Yeah but that doesn't explain going for the likes of O'Halloran, Henshaw, Fitzgerald, Ruddock, McGrath.

Maybe it explains Jordan Coughlan, Conway and Jones though.

phog

TommyOM wrote: »

Yeah but that doesn't explain going for the likes of O'Halloran, Henshaw, Fitzgerald, Ruddock, McGrath.

Maybe it explains Jordan Coughlan, Conway and Jones though.

We haven't poached any of those players.

Rightwing

TommyOM wrote: »

No answer. I rest my case.

You are thinking soccer, big clubs like Arsenal poaching younger players. There's a real economic benefit in doing that in football, but not so in rugby. If you can understand this you are half way there.

This strategy is risky in rugby. It's simply better just to get an over 25 proven player like Sexton. Why? No transfer fees. The provinces are doing quite well with their rotation policy.

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

Yeah but that doesn't explain going for the likes of O'Halloran, Henshaw, Fitzgerald, Ruddock, McGrath.

But none of these have gone to Munster. Fitzgerald was courted by Munster so as to offer him something he couldn't have at Leinster. Henshaw's rumour mill extends east too. O'Halloran ?? Ruddock rumour based on a lunch no?

TommyOM wrote: »

Maybe it explains Jordan Coughlan, Conway and Jones though.

And all of these have, mainly for the reason given.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Name me one under 25 player from Munster that Leinster have tried to sign.

Paddy Butler, forcing Munster to give him the development deal.

CatFromHue

I know we like to scoff at the Indo but they've been proved right a few times about behind the scenes dealing. Even though the deals never materialised the players have admitted since that they were very close to actually happening.

Luke Fitz to Munster for example.

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Paddy Butler, forcing Munster to give him the development deal.

Waffle. The last thing Leinster need is another backrow.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Waffle. The last thing Leinster need is another backrow.

It's not waffle, it happened, 100%. It's well known. I think they approached Daniel Thomas that same season so obviously they were looking for back row players for their academy at the time.

It's why Butler was given a development deal and skipped the academy in Munster, only other player I remember doing that in recent times was Luke Fitzgerald, who was coincidentally approached by Munster out of school.

thomond2006

TommyOM wrote: »

Waffle. The last thing Leinster need is another backrow.

Butler had come off an immense season with the Ireland U20s, it's no surprise to me if Leinster tried to sign him from the Munster sub academy. Why would Munster allow Butler to skip the academy if he didn't have offers elsewhere?

evolving tipperary

According to Tommy, Munster are the big bad wolf and no one else "poaches"! Come on, Tommy, please!

shuffol

I'd find it hard to believe the Butler story. Leinster had Ryan, Ruddock and Ben Marshall in the u20s that year.

evolving tipperary

Both Ruddock and Ryan were well bet by the Munster backrow, twice, this year...

so not that hard to believe?

Butler is very good -he justs needs game time - be a good signing for Leinster - lots of competition at Munster in the backrow

irishbucsfan

shuffol wrote: »

I'd find it hard to believe the Butler story. Leinster had Ryan, Ruddock and Ben Marshall in the u20s that year.

Yeah but also foresaw a shortfall at 8 and none of those guys play there.

I was much more surprised about Dan Thomas who was/is a 7. Not sure where he is now.

shuffol

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Both Ruddock and Ryan were well bet by the Munster backrow, twice, this year...

so not that hard to believe?

Butler is very good -he justs needs game time - be a good signing for Leinster - lots of competition at Munster in the backrow

Ah so that explains why Leinster were chasing Paddy Butler 4 years ago.

evolving tipperary

That's it, kid! Ryan's potential - after the under 20 WC - as another poster documented. Well-spotted!

Cookiemunster

Damian Varleys retirement has been confirmed. Was really hoping the rumour wasn't true. http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/20026.php#.VONOhp3kfjI

Mahatma Geansai

Terrible news regarding Varley. He was always an infuriating player as a supporter, but his work and carrying in the tight will be greatly missed. His strength over the ball was properly top class.

Teferi

All the best to Varls. Retirement through injury is always a tough one to take.

Mahatma Geansai

On a lighter note, Murray Kinsella is reporting that Diarmuid McCarthy has been training with Munster during the 6N. He was a phenomenal talent in school's and underage rugby, and it would be great to see him get an opportunity to prove himself.

evolving tipperary

Try scorer too

Bridge93

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Both Ruddock and Ryan were well bet by the Munster backrow, twice, this year...

so not that hard to believe?

Butler is very good -he justs needs game time - be a good signing for Leinster - lots of competition at Munster in the backrow

Have you bothered to look at the competition in the Leinster backrow?

Sean O' Brien
Jamie Heaslip
Rhys Ruddock
Jordi Murphy
Jack Conan
Shane Jennings
Dominic Ryan
Kevin McLaughlin

All better players than Butler with the exception of maybe Butler. Leinster also have Josh Van Der Flier who has gotten gametime this year and Dan Leavy who is a future international star if he can stay fit. Butler made the right call stsying with Munster. If he can't get into the Munster team, Leinster is the last place he should be going.

Fireball07

Bridge93 wrote: »

Have you bothered to look at the competition in the Leinster backrow?

Sean O' Brien
Jamie Heaslip
Rhys Ruddock
Jordi Murphy
Jack Conan
Shane Jennings
Dominic Ryan
Kevin McLaughlin

All better players than Butler with the exception of maybe Butler. Leinster also have Josh Van Der Flier who has gotten gametime this year and Dan Leavy who is a future international star if he can stay fit. Butler made the right call stsying with Munster. If he can't get into the Munster team, Leinster is the last place he should be going.

It was before some of those players had broken through though? Van Der Flier, Leavy, Conan would all have been irrelevant and Butler probably would have been viewed ahead of Murphy at the time. In hindsight, it was a good choice... Butler perhaps hasn't developed as much as people would have liked but I still think he'll become a good player.

evolving tipperary

We're talking about four years ago...

AND



Munster backrow is better this year ... convincingly, outplayed Leinster's backrow twice- so, ergo, he'd have a better chance with Leinster...with any of the other provinces

Cookiemunster

And the bad news keeps coming. Copeland needs shoulder surgery and will miss the rest of the season. Smith and Stander are returning to training this week though.

thomond2006

Copeland just couldn't get a run of games going this season. He kept getting minor injuries and now he has a long term one. Suddenly JOD is a very important player and will surely be favoured as cover with Dougall and Butler leaving.

Great to read Donnacha Ryan is making progress.

evolving tipperary

I'd hate to see the 15 stone of JOD getting his confidence shattered or his body in the latter stage of the league games - I say we get as much out of Dougall and Butler before they fly the nest - get 50/60 mins out of them in each game and then let JOD loose

JOD is a real talent - want to be treating this guy with kid gloves - ease him in - give a chance to put on another stone and half or so - next year could be his year

TommyOM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

We're talking about four years ago...

AND



Munster backrow is better this year ... convincingly, outplayed Leinster's backrow twice- so, ergo, he'd have a better chance with Leinster...with any of the other provinces

If you think Munster have a better backrow than Leinster then you are in cuckoo land. Theres not a hope in hell that Leinster have an easier backrow to get into. Its a backrow containing Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Rhys Ruddock, Jordi Murphy, Shane Jennings, Kevin McLaughlin, Dominic Ryan, Jack Conan.

Van de Flier is probably better than Butler too from what I've seen. Butler had two good games in a U20 over four years ago and some people still think he's going to be another Jamie Heaslip!

case885

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'd hate to see the 15 stone of JOD getting his confidence shattered or his body in the latter stage of the league games - I say we get as much out of Dougall and Butler before they fly the nest - get 50/60 mins out of them in each game and then let JOD loose

JOD is a real talent - want to be treating this guy with kid gloves - ease him in - give a chance to put on another stone and half or so - next year could be his year

What have you seen that his lack of weight may be an issue? He certainly wasn't outmuscled against Cardiff. Lets not forget his munster profile was updated at the start of the season which had him at 97kg's, he has probably bulked up a bit since then.

evolving tipperary

They proved it. Twice. This year. Everyone apart from Sean O'Brien was outplayed as he was injured. (those who didn't make the teams were outplayed before Munster got there)

Simple. Undeniable. All there is, is the games.

evolving tipperary

He looks small and he will come up against a lot better units and Eights than Cardiff - a depleted Cardiff...

I just don't want to see him getting injured earlier on - like to see him get every chance - another year of bulking up I think would be good

I'm not questioning his talent or strength, far from it.

TommyOM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

They proved it. Twice. This year. Everyone apart from Sean O'Brien was outplayed as he was injured. (those who didn't make the teams were outplayed before Munster got there)

Simple. Undeniable. All there is, is the games.

So you would start the Munster backrow that played that day over Leinsters for Ireland? LOL

If a team has an off day it doesn't mean the other teams players are superior, put it this way, what have Munster's backrow players actually won in the last 5 years compared to Leinsters?

I rest my case.

evolving tipperary

Stander, form irish forward of the season? Yes?

O'Mahony...is first choice on the Ireland team

O'Donnell - got a try and had a fine game against Italy. Was very unlucky not to be involved against France. Joe has a system and a way of playing and O'Donnell doesn't fit it. I'm not questioning O'Brien - I am questioning a decision that picks a guy who has been out for long long long time over a guy who has played a very good season.

Sean O'Brien is excellent when fully fit - world class - not there yet though. None of those rampaging runs are happening yet.

Heaslip's form is up and down for the past few years - was in good form lately - but put to the sword twice by stander.


You're own logic contradicts itself....- you can rest all the cases you want but they're flimsy...

evolving tipperary

Leinster might be out of the groups stages - but they haven't played anyone of significance yet in the champions cup - whereas Munster had the toughest group - played two teams of real class and experience - and have beaten Leinster twice this year. We're also ahead of Leinster in the league - so do yourself a favor - and let it go

Tox56

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Stander, form irish forward of the season? Yes?

... no

TommyOM

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Stander, form irish forward of the season? Yes?

O'Mahony...is first choice on the Ireland team

O'Donnell - got a try and had a fine game against Italy. Was very unlucky not to be involved against France. Joe has a system and a way of playing and O'Donnell doesn't fit it. I'm not questioning O'Brien - I am questioning a decision that picks a guy who has been out for long long long time over a guy who has played a very good season.

Sean O'Brien is excellent when fully fit - world class - not there yet though. None of those rampaging runs are happening yet.

Heaslip's form is up and down for the past few years - was in good form lately - but put to the sword twice by stander.


You're own logic contradicts itself....- you can rest all the cases you want but they're flimsy...

So Tommy O'Donnell over Sean O'Brien and Stander over Jamie Heaslip.

Thanks for the laugh mate

Micky Dolenz

You lost me at LOL.

thomond2006

When the seagulls follow the trawler...

TommyOM

TommyOM wrote: »

So you would start the Munster backrow that played that day over Leinsters for Ireland? LOL

If a team has an off day it doesn't mean the other teams players are superior, put it this way, what have Munster's backrow players actually won in the last 5 years compared to Leinsters?

I rest my case.

Leinsters team have won more trophies not just the back row