India v England - 5 test series.

KevIRL

Can't beat a good old fashioned England collapse all the same

booth70

Hopefully that will be the last of Michael Vaughan's sarcastic tweets about chin music , subcontinental teams not playing the short ball well.....They may still not play the short ball well but its been Sri Lanka and India of all teams who have bounced England out this summer!!

Superb test wicket.....superb test match

Going by the post match interview Cook has no plans to step aside.....With no suitable alternative the ECB will stick with him I reckon

djimi

booth70 wrote: »

Cook and Prior will survive if England win today.....

Maybe that result is for the best so :pac:

Cook is finished as captain. He needs to head back to Essex for the rest of the summer (or for however long it takes) and remember how to enjoy batting, because right now he is doing the side and himself no favours.

Prior looks in real trouble as well. I was prepared to give him another chance after being dropped in the winter, but his form with the bat and especially with the gloves has been awful this summer, and if the talk of his injuries is true then he may well be finished at this level at least. No idea who comes in to replace him; not convinced by Buttler, yet at least, and there isnt exactly a queue of stand out candidates.

Rjd2

djimi wrote: »

Maybe that result is for the best so :pac:

Cook is finished as captain. He needs to head back to Essex for the rest of the summer (or for however long it takes) and remember how to enjoy batting, because right now he is doing the side and himself no favours.

Prior looks in real trouble as well. I was prepared to give him another chance after being dropped in the winter, but his form with the bat and especially with the gloves has been awful this summer, and if the talk of his injuries is true then he may well be finished at this level at least. No idea who comes in to replace him; not convinced by Buttler, yet at least, and there isnt exactly a queue of stand out candidates.

It won't ever happen but Read and Foster are the best glovemen in England are experienced captains. Maybe one of them could do a job with the gloves and as a fill in captain for now?

djimi

Read wouldnt be the worst short term appointment. I cant see them going for him though. If Cook gets dropped/steps down then I cant see anyone but Broad getting the captaincy (not because he is necessarily the best man for the job, but simply because he is there and has experience).

The whole thing is a mess at the moment. After the Ashes I said that it was time to start rebuilding and spend the next couple of years getting a solid base in place. The biggest problem England face now is that Cook, Bell and Prior have all gone completely off the boil, Broad is apparently playing through an injury that needs sorting, which only leaves Anderson as the remaining senior player (and he could end up with a couple of games of a ban if this hearing goes against him). There is almost none of the side remaining from the last few years, and several of those that do remain are likely to find themselves dropped in the not too distant future, which means there is no base to build from. I can see the next few years being a bit painful for English cricket if Im honest.

djimi

Read wouldnt be the worst short term appointment. I cant see them going for him though. If Cook gets dropped/steps down then I cant see anyone but Broad getting the captaincy (not because he is necessarily the best man for the job, but simply because he is there and has experience).

The whole thing is a mess at the moment. After the Ashes I said that it was time to start rebuilding and spend the next couple of years getting a solid base in place. The biggest problem England face now is that Cook, Bell and Prior have all gone completely off the boil, Broad is apparently playing through an injury that needs sorting, which only leaves Anderson as the remaining senior player (and he could end up with a couple of games of a ban if this hearing goes against him). There is almost none of the side remaining from the last few years, and several of those that do remain are likely to find themselves dropped in the not too distant future, which means there is no base to build from. I can see the next few years being a bit painful for English cricket if Im honest.

Washout

I was kind of against Eoin Morgan coming in as Captain. but there is absolutely no potential leaders in the current England team. So Ive changed my mind.

Next Match at Southampton Cook, Prior and Broad, who isn't at the Races Out. Morgan, Foster and Jordan to come in.

Delighted for India. Outstanding win after losing the Toss. I Hope Kohli can get firing because when he gets going he is some sight.

Gillespy

Both Atherton and Beefy suggested Morgan. I would like to see it, I think I said it after the ODI series in Australia where he impressed that they needed to get him into the team.

Rjd2

Yeah, even if they win this series, right now, you'd fear for England against Australia next summer. Can you imagine the grin on Mitch's face if he was watching this afternoon?:eek:

Read or Foster would be fine as short term options, as England have a pretty young team, and while neither are Gilchrist, they are not total rabbits, Read especially has played some gritty knocks when needed for Notts. He actually has scored more runs than Buttler and is averaging 45 this season in county championship division 1.

Its a bit like Rogers for Australia isn't it? Not to exciting of choices and neither like Rogers will be around in five years, but like Rogers, both are tough and could do a valuable job for a few years. Heck Misbah was considered as a bit of a journeyman when he got the captaincy a few years ago when in the mid 30's:o

They will go with Buttler or Bairstow as wicket keeper if they make a change, and Cook will get the full series as captain and batsman.

djimi

I dont think they have anything to lose by picking Morgan tbh, either as a batsman or as captain. There are no real stand out candidates for captaincy aside from Broad who Im far from convinced by, and at least Morgan has some experience of captaining England and usually looks impressive when he fills in the role. Maybe a complete change of approach is what is needed at this point.

In terms of his batting, he seems to be having a bit of a mixed season with the bat; got 190 odd a few weeks back but some low scores also. He has shown time and again in ODIs that he has the quality to bat at the top level, and its not like selecting him would be the biggest of gambles.

booth70

India have done to England at Lord's what England did to them in Mumbai a few years ago - beat them on a pitch designed for the home team

Think it's the end for Prior - the selectors will not go back to Read or Foster both of whom have had enough chances at the highest level

It's time for Butler - England have nothing to lose playing Butler next week

Morgan coming back into the team as captain will be the joke of the year.... Cook , despite the fact he is dragging the team down with his batting and tactics , has 3 more tests to salvage his career as captain and batsman and the same is the case with Bell

Prior and Stokes to face the sack tomoro

As for India Kohli's form is the only worry...Ashwin comes in for Binny irrespective of what the pitch looks like in Southampton..Dhawan will get one more chance at the top....Dhoni's poor overseas form will be forgiven as long as he keeps winning!..... I didn't think I'd be saying this but after 50 odd test matches Ishanth Sharma has finally arrived!!!

booth70

booth70 wrote: »

I didn't think I'd be saying this but after 50 odd test matches Ishanth Sharma has finally arrived!!!

Excellent article from Cricinfo on the trials and tribulations of Ishanth Sharma

The last line of the article sums up the situation well but it might as well have read......

"Today the joke was not just on England but on countless Indian fans (me included) who have ridiculed Ishanth Sharma" !!!!

One swallow does not a summer make but enjoy your day in the sun today......Well done son!

Mr. Guappa

Prior has stood down from selection for the rest of the summer, for injury reasons. Could be the end of his test career if his replacement does well.

Rjd2

booth70 wrote: »

India have done to England at Lord's what England did to them in Mumbai a few years ago - beat them on a pitch designed for the home team

Think it's the end for Prior - the selectors will not go back to Read or Foster both of whom have had enough chances at the highest level

It's time for Butler - England have nothing to lose playing Butler next week

Morgan coming back into the team as captain will be the joke of the year.... Cook , despite the fact he is dragging the team down with his batting and tactics , has 3 more tests to salvage his career as captain and batsman and the same is the case with Bell

Prior and Stokes to face the sack tomoro

A long long time ago to be fair, Foster played his last test 12 years ago, Read was on a hiding to nothing in the previous 5-0 in Australia.

Anyways neither men's merits matter because they won't be brought back, but the fact that they are been considered by some highlights the lack of options England have.

Buttler I am cool with, I like him lots, will he do well, who knows, but may as well find out. Their is no other options really apart from Bairstow if the likes of Read and Foster are blacklisted.

George Dobell who doesn't do bad articles, nailed it with this line when talking about Moores.

Moores might also reflect on how it has come to pass that, in a nation with 18 first-class counties, all with well-financed academies, a Lions team and age-group teams at county and national level, that there are so few realistic options for an alternative captain, spinner or wicketkeeper.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/763005.html



That is the article itself, its a very good read indeed, if a little bleak for England. I mean people groan at the likes of Read, Foster, Morgan (CAPTAIN!), Kerrigan, Riley been considered and I understand totally, none of them would be what you would call guaranteed home runs, but what else is their?



On India, i think they deserve more credit, they batted first on a green top, only played ten players and won quite easily in the end.:P

Ishant deserves credit, but the star is Rahene, that was a fantastic innings, it was doing loads and if he had not batted so well they would have been steam rollled in this match. His innings really gave the momentum to India.

Changes for India?

Ashwin for Binny is the obvious one. His overseas record is poor, but he hasn't played that many matches overseas, so its unfair to give him up on yet and for a spinner he is quite young.

Also even if he bombs with the ball, his batting will compensate a lot.

dfx-

Rjd2 wrote: »

George Dobell who doesn't do bad articles, nailed it with this line when talking about Moores.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/763005.html

That is the article itself, its a very good read indeed, if a little bleak for England. I mean people groan at the likes of Read, Foster, Morgan (CAPTAIN!), Kerrigan, Riley been considered and I understand totally, none of them would be what you would call guaranteed home runs, but what else is their?

His articles have improved since last year when he thought the biggest achievement for England would be winning the Champions Trophy and not the Ashes. Only problem now is he is a KP apologist (possibly his internal source?), as he mentions him in this article and the famed 'meeting for opinions' too.

djimi

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Prior has stood down from selection for the rest of the summer, for injury reasons. Could be the end of his test career if his replacement does well.

He was so obviously struggling. Its a real shame if this is how he has to bow out to test cricket; on top form he was such a assett to that side. To have him coming in the lower middle order knowing he could smash big runs in double quick time gave England such an edge. He is going to take some replacing; Buttler seems the likely candidate but honestly Im not sure that England are going to have an easy time selecting the next keeper.

booth70

djimi wrote: »

He was so obviously struggling. Its a real shame if this is how he has to bow out to test cricket; on top form he was such a assett to that side. To have him coming in the lower middle order knowing he could smash big runs in double quick time gave England such an edge. He is going to take some replacing; Buttler seems the likely candidate but honestly Im not sure that England are going to have an easy time selecting the next keeper.

Apparently he tore a quad and was injured BEFORE the summer began......makes his selection in the England team for the Sri Lanka series look even more bizarre.

I can understand if he was coming off a brilliant Ashes series in such a rich vein of form that England might have thought okay lets risk playing him even if he is injured given that he is so valuable ....but no this was a guy who was dropped from the team after a poor Ashes series , gets injured and still gets picked , drops clangers right thro the summer , makes no meaningful contributions with the bat , plays two horrible shots at Lords and still gets the right to 'step' down!

Good player at his best but England should have have moved on at the start of the summer like I said earlier ..... Hopefully the ECB don't go back to the likes of Read and Foster and pick Butler and give him more than the 2 tests they gave Bairstow to establish himself in the side!!

Gillespy

Of all the members of that successful English team Prior would be one that I would have liked to go out on his own terms. He is only 32. Player of the year for them last year. Very easy to write off cricketers and we know how fast it can all turn around.

Has KP tweeted anything about it? Piers Morgan has I bet

djimi

Buttler has a way to go with his keeping, but he seems to be next in line you would think.

I can see the merits of Read tbh as a short term appointment, especially if they do come to their senses and get rid of Cook for a while. He isnt going to set the world alight but he can do a job behind the stumps and is an experienced captain at county level. If you think of Englands immediate short term objective as being just to remember how to win some games then perhaps throwing a less experienced player like Buttler into the firing line in a side that is seriously struggling and low on confidence might not be the best course of action this summer. Im also not sure that replacing one of the few senior players left in the side with another test rookie is going to help matters.

Rjd2

djimi wrote: »

Buttler has a way to go with his keeping, but he seems to be next in line you would think.

I can see the merits of Read tbh as a short term appointment, especially if they do come to their senses and get rid of Cook for a while. He isnt going to set the world alight but he can do a job behind the stumps and is an experienced captain at county level. If you think of Englands immediate short term objective as being just to remember how to win some games then perhaps throwing a less experienced player like Buttler into the firing line in a side that is seriously struggling and low on confidence might not be the best course of action this summer. Im also not sure that replacing one of the few senior players left in the side with another test rookie is going to help matters.

Yeah I think I would agree with that. His batting has improved in the last few years and to be fair Fosters batting also has been fine in the last few years.

A few years ago when Butt got banned, Pakistan had the same issues with who to select as captain, Misbah was as left field as you could get, was considered by many to be a dull and backward step, Pakistan journalists wanted Malik, Hafeez, Umar, Umar etc. But he has done a fine job for them.


England have a very young team anyways so Read or Foster for a few years would not hurt them.

Anyways Buttler has been picked, so probably best to knock the Boards.ie Chris Read lovefest on the head.:pac:

Interesting to see how he does, hopefully well, a very exciting player to watch and seems like a nice lad.

Rjd2

Gillespy wrote: »

Of all the members of that successful English team Prior would be one that I would have liked to go out on his own terms. He is only 32. Player of the year for them last year. Very easy to write off cricketers and we know how fast it can all turn around.

Has KP tweeted anything about it? Piers Morgan has I bet

Piers hasn't stopped, usual deserter stuff. KP made a reference to Prior conceding more byes than runs scored Yesterday.

If Prior was injured he should not have been selected, and its shocking from the selectors that he was as he was a total passenger all summer.


However I will say if Buttler is Matthew Wade 2, then its possible he could come back next summer, like Haddin did for Australia.

Gillespy

I just had a look. What a mess. Captain Weasel is how he's referring to Cook. Thank god there's that video of Bret Lee peppering him to help me forget what I just read.

y0ssar1an22

I'm not Cooks greatest fan and I enjoyed watching him (read England) struggle. Right now, after watching his press conference and others speculate about him, I really want him to have a big knock in the 3rd test.

Jadeja's level 2 was reduced to level 1. What are the chances of Jimmy's level 3 being reduced to level 2? I think that carries a 1 match ban?

y0ssar1an22

Gillespy wrote: »

I just had a look. What a mess. Captain Weasel is how he's referring to Cook. Thank god there's that video of Bret Lee peppering him to help me forget what I just read.

Does PM have any connection with cricket? Aside from being a famous (said lightly) English person?

Rjd2

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Does PM have any connection with cricket? Aside from being a famous (said lightly) English person?

Best mates with KP isn't he? The likes of Vaughan, Freddie etc all love having "banter" with him on twitter.

He is awful, just try to ignore his ramblings.

Gillespy

Cook in the nineties. Hopefully he sees this through now.

Rjd2

The old cliche, if you are a batsman play India a few times and you will come back into form:pac:

To be fair he has had a lot of luck really, no idea how such a gun fielder Jadeja put him down.

Pankaj Singh looks ok, Shami and Kumar a bit listless but in the later especially always a possibility with such a quick turn around in tests.

TrueDub

Gillespy wrote: »

Cook in the nineties. Hopefully he sees this through now.

Jinxed him!

Rjd2

500 should be expected here, Kumar and Shami off color and loads of batting to come on flat enough pitch. India will be happy to take the draw if first session tomorrow does not produce wickets.

Anyways a little old with this, Indian fans especially if they have not seen it should enjoy this.

Dravid is great, genuinely can't find a reason why anyone would dislike him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTNqW4Xmzg0

byronbay2

England 384-4.

They need to kick on hard now for the next 2.5 hours and declare (assuming not all-out) with an hour left today (ideally on 550 or more) and try to get a couple of Indian wickets before the close. England need to win this match and have to take a chance on losing to improve their chance of winning. Not Cook's style, I know, but what's required.